Tale of the 47 Ronin

[Bushido]

Hi guys, glad to be here. I started kendo a month ago and I love it!!

I am a professionnal web designer, and I just want to share with you my latest website about the 47 Ronin (http://www.47ronins.com).

The story of the 47 Ronin, known as Chushingura in Japanese, is one of the most popular and familiar tales in Japan.

So thats it guys, enjoy!!!

[Josh Reyer]

Your site looks very nice. However, let me add some nuance of how the 47 ronin are viewed in Japan, at least among historians studying the incident, and in more and more popular depictions.

Most accounts in English that I have seen chalk up the incident to simple revenge -- Kira had caused the death of their master, so the ronin killed him for honor. However, in actuality, it's thought that the ronin actually had a far more pragmatic plan: the restoration of the Ako Domain. At the heart of the incident was the Edo period law of kenka ryouseibai: in the case of a physical altercation, both participants were deemed liable and punished, regardless of "who started it". Generally, it would be expected that in this case, both Asano and Kira would be punished for the altercation. However, only Asano was punished, and he was immediately ordered to commit seppuku, his lands and holdings confiscated and his domain broken up. This is what troubled the Ako ronin. They felt the punishment had been unduly harsh, one-sided, and without due process.

While the traditional stories had Oishi feign to be a drunkard in order to lull Kira into complacency, these days it's often believed that he was just a carousing kind of guy. The year between the original incident and the vendetta was actually used by the Ako ronin in various bureaucratic measures in order to restore the clan and domain, in particular by getting the domain to be passed onto Asano's brother, Daigaku. They moved to the vendetta only after Daigaku was sentenced to a life-sentence of imprisonment, for being close kin Asano. (This was due to another law of the time, ryuuzai, which meant that in addition to the actual perpetrator of a crime, his immediately family could be punished as well.) Asano attacked Kira on March 3, 1701, and Daigaku's sentence was decided on August 11, 1702, and the plans switched from restoration to vendetta shortly thereafter.

The goal of the vendetta was to stage a prominent protest to the decision, and hopefully restore the clan and domain. This is why the ronin immediately turned themselves in afterwards. Ultimately, their plan was successful, because although they were sentenced to death, Daigaku's sentence was eventually commuted, and the clan restored seven years after the incident.

One thing to note about the Ako ronin is that their story became such a big deal precisely because what they did was extraordinary, beyond the expectations of samurai of the time.

Also, in your site you talk about bushido's influence on modern Japan. In actuality, the biggest influence is Confucianism, not bushido, which was never a codified set of ideals in the first place. The various codes and beliefs that inform the popular conception of "bushido" were certainly influenced by Confucianism, so there's overlap, to be sure. Nevertheless, the primary influence is Confucianism, which was followed by farmers, artisans, and merchants alike, the overwhelming proportion of the Japanese population. In contrast, the different flavors of "bushido" were followed by a subset of a minority ruling class, and thus has never had a profound influence on Japan as a whole. Even during WWII, the ones primarily exposed to "Neo-Bushido" (to coin a term) where the men in the armed services.

[dwez]

Damn I thought this was the 'tale of the crazy 38', a particular British incident, but reading Josh's post sounds vaguely familiar. Honestly what am I thinking, I never brought this up, forget it.

[Bruce Mitchell]

Great post Josh. It was really informative. In checking out the site, it is nice, but doesn't seem to add anything to the info that is already out there, and is a bit thin. One point that I think deserves more coverage is the idea that Asano Naganori may be deserving of criticism. After all, if he had kept his temper none of this would have happened. As lord of Ako, Asano had a tremendous responsibility to his clan, and should have put that responsibility first in his mind. Compared to Kamei Sama, his actions were not only illegal, but were downright foolish.

Alternately, having lost his temper and decided to draw his sword, he should have killed Kira. That he couldn't kill an ettiquete teacher does not speak well of his skill with the sword. He probably would have still been sanctioned, but the story would have been far different.

[Kenzan]

I wonder if the Japanese have forums which argue authoritatively on all the minute nuances regarding who the best Gunslinger of the Old West was;

Jesse James?
Or
Billy the Kid?


Pffft!
Neither.
Everyone knows it's Clint Eastwood.


But of course, you have to be a Native American to know that.

[rfoxmich]

Of course those who know me and my name know it's really the tale of the 47-ron-in that is the 47 people named Ron. :-D sorry long day and I'm feeling silly.

[Josh Reyer]

I wonder if the Japanese have forums which argue authoritatively on all the minute nuances regarding who the best Gunslinger of the Old West was;


Yes, they do. And on 2ch it can get ugly. Real ugly.

[Kenzan]

Yes, they do. And on 2ch it can get ugly. Real ugly.

Apparently, pedantry is a thing which has no cultural borders.

[Maku-san]

I wonder if the Japanese have forums which argue authoritatively on all the minute nuances regarding who the best Gunslinger of the Old West was;

Jesse James?
Or
Billy the Kid?


Pffft!
Neither.
Everyone knows it's Clint Eastwood.


But of course, you have to be a Native American to know that.

Nope... it's Lee Van Cleef... :grin:

[Maku-san]

Beautiful site, Bushido-san! :grin: I shall bookmark it and peruse at my leisure! :D

[Kenzan]

Nope... it's Lee Van Cleef... :grin:

True that.
I mean he was also a Ninja.

[Kenzan]

:grin: I shall bookmark it and peruse at my leisure! :D

That's what frightens me.

[Maku-san]

True that.
I mean he was also a Ninja.

Well, I coulda said "Chuck Norris", but he was more of the modern Texas Ranger type that kicked redneck arses... :grin:

[Maku-san]

That's what frightens me.

Well, ex-queeze me! I have other endeavours that I pursue...like Kendo! :grin:

[yoda-waza]

That's what frightens me.
Hang on to your butt, Kenzan, because this may frighten you (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117997052.html?categoryid=13&cs=1), too, as much as it did me. I'm hoping it is not another Tom Cruise experience.

[Kenzan]

Hang on to your butt, Kenzan, because this may frighten you (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117997052.html?categoryid=13&cs=1), too, as much as it did me. I'm hoping it is not another Tom Cruise experience.

Quote:
"Morgan is writing the script and tailoring it so that Reeves -- who's half-Asian -- can fit the role as one of the swordsmen. The intention is to begin shooting next year after a director is hired."

Wikipedia: "Reeves was born in Beirut, Lebanon, the son of Patricia Bond (née Taylor), a costume designer/performer, and Samuel Nowlin Reeves, Jr., a geologist.[1] Reeves' mother is English, and his father is an American of Hawaiian, Chinese, Portuguese, and Irish descent."

Sounds pretty much like a third of the West Coast.

Sinmple mistake really, happens all the time.
What they meant to say was: "Changlowainiportish."

Which a little less known term in the Algonquin language that means:

"Craptastic acting skills."

[JSchmidt]

Hang on to your butt, Kenzan, because this may frighten you (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117997052.html?categoryid=13&cs=1), too, as much as it did me. I'm hoping it is not another Tom Cruise experience.

Looks like this one never got into pre-production. Nothing on imdb. Chris Morgan did however write this one: Sakura: Blue-Eyes Samurai (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0452050/) which sounds much much worse!

[Oda'spride]

Oh dear!!!