Kendo ryu? Niten ichi ryu?

[Musha]

Hi, from another post I just read about some one wanting to learn Niten/Ni tou ryu and reading some of the 'Go rin no sho after after buying some Niten bokens and a book for Christmas :cool2:. It set me thinking that I do not quite understand why you need to learn Kendo then go onto Niten.

It is like saying you have to learn Jyujitsu before you can move onto Aikido or Kendo before you can move onto Iaido.
In Musashi's book he actually says that the 'one sword ryu' is pointless :spchless:!!!.

This is a big one, but I don’t actually think Kendo is a ryu, it is some type of Shinryu 'New style', 'Niten/nitoryu' is old style. Not the same :D.

[xvikingx]

Don't confuse niten ichi-ryu with nito. They are not related. From your first paragraph I am not quite sure which you are talking about. To learn niten ichi-ryu you do not need to learn kendo. Just like you don't need to learn kenjutsu to do kendo. Two different things.
A two swords style of fighting is just as useless as a one sword style because we have guns now.

[IZA]

[QUOTE=xvikingx]Don't confuse niten ichi-ryu with nito. They are not related. From your first paragraph I am not quite sure which you are talking about. To learn niten ichi-ryu you do not need to learn kendo. Just like you don't need to learn kenjutsu to do kendo. Two different things.
A two swords style of fighting is just as useless as a one sword style because we have guns now.[/QUOT



Actually Hyoho Niten Ichiryu basics starts with single sword techniques( Itto Seiho) before moving to two sword set forms.


and yes, Nito kendo has nothing to do with Niten Ichiryu

[xvikingx]

Actually Hyoho Niten Ichiryu basics starts with single sword techniques( Itto Seiho) before moving to two sword set forms.

If my previous post some how implies that you do not need single sword techniques, I apologize for the poor wording.

[Musha]

Sorry I am talking about this post by craig http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1709&highlight=nito

The book is also from this site http://www.hakudoh.com/musasi/index.html
that reads as follows

'Miyamoto musashi niten ichi ryu 17th genearation Nakamura tenshin'

'The Niten ichi ryu' 'Musashi group' takes ideas and tequniques from the 'niten ichi ryu' martial art style founded by Mr Miyamoto musashi and puts them into modern Kendo. Using the two swords to train and study.'

The book is called 'Niten ichi ryu 'Musashi group's' Kendo nito ryu techniques and theory'.

[IZA]

Personally dislike people using Hyoho Niten Ichiryu to kendo.
On the first place HNIR has nothing to do with kendo. and to use HNIR techniques, someones goin to the hospital.

[Hyaku]

Sorry I am talking about this post by craig http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1709&highlight=nito

The book is also from this site http://www.hakudoh.com/musasi/index.htmlthat reads as follows

'Miyamoto musashi niten ichi ryu 17th genearation Nakamura tenshin'

'The Niten ichi ryu' 'Musashi group' takes ideas and tequniques from the 'niten ichi ryu' martial art style founded by Mr Miyamoto musashi and puts them into modern Kendo. Using the two swords to train and study.'

The book is called 'Niten ichi ryu 'Musashi group's' Kendo nito ryu techniques and theory'.

See the Read this part here http://www.hyoho.com

As Iza mentioned if that was possible all Kendoka would be hospitalized.

The concept of Kendo is to discipline the human character through the application of the principles of the Japanese sword.

Musashi's concept was, “Since we are born and live on this earth we should face God and give birth to children and increase the human race and make everybody happy. In order to do this we have to face the unavoidable and our fatality". In other words sometimes he was impelled to "Kill people"

His ideal was "To learn the sword we must learn the heart”. Learn the heart and you will never need to pick up a sword!

You have my assurance as a Yudansha teaching Kendo in Japan and a senior of the Hyoho Niten Ichiryu that the two dont mix at all.

I am amazed that you find a 17th generation. The present is only the tenth and is well recognized by the Nihon Kobudo Renmei and Nippon Budokan.

[Musha]

Nice site but What does this mean? :D.

“Since we are born and live on this earth we should face God and give birth to children and increase the human race and make everybody happy. In order to do this we have to face the unavoidable and our fatality". In other words sometimes he was impelled to "Kill people".
Musashi wanted to test his skills challenging famous marshal artists, so he could have children? lol.

Any way, I can not really comment much because I have not read any of the book about Niten ichi ryu and Nitou but I do know it includes kata.

Kendo has kata so as to practice old techniques in a controlled and more realistic way. No armor and a realistic shaped sword. Then you use armour and practice Kendo so as to get an idea as to the feeling of true combat and pressure.

I guess Niten ichi ryu is the kata and Nito is kendo part. Also like Naginata.

[Raiza]

I guess Niten ichi ryu is the kata and Nito is kendo part. Also like Naginata.
No. Hyaku and Iza have already told you that there is no relation between niten and nito. I've seen niten as Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu (the ryu founded by Musashi Miyamoto) and nito practised and they are entirely different creatures.

Musha, you do realize that you can't edit posts, right? You should, because to everyone who knows what HNIR and nito is either a) shaking their heads at this fine display of complete and rather disrespectful ignorance, or b) laughing themselves silly.

As stated distinctly in this thread, HNIR is NOT nito. Apples and oranges. Hyaku is a highly-qualified sensei who's been doing M-A-R-T-I-A-L arts longer than I've probably been alive. I've met him, I've met the 10th Soke that he studies HNIR under, and I can assure you that Hyaku knows his stuff.

I suggest you give that fancy book you've bought yourself a look before trying to make connections that aren't there to begin with. If it does link any kind of niten and nito, let us know the title and author and someone here will be more than happy to provide a comment or two. Or three. Or four...


Nice site but What does this mean? :D.
“Since we are born and live on this earth we should face God and give birth to children and increase the human race and make everybody happy. In order to do this we have to face the unavoidable and our fatality". In other words sometimes he was impelled to "Kill people".
Musashi wanted to test his skills challenging famous marshal artists, so he could have children? lol.

Here, how's this: "Be the best person you can be. Leave a wonderful and lasting legacy. Be prepared to combat those who would bring suffering and unhappiness to this world, as sometimes the only option of dealing with those types of people is to defeat them in combat." Is that more clear for you?

To the other members of the board, I apologize for my abruptness but Musha appears to not understand the subtlety of prior posters on this thread.

[Raiza]

Just wanted to add that Musha should just provide the author's name of the book as he's already stated the title.

[IZA]

Nice site but What does this mean? :D.

“Since we are born and live on this earth we should face God and give birth to children and increase the human race and make everybody happy. In order to do this we have to face the unavoidable and our fatality". In other words sometimes he was impelled to "Kill people".
Musashi wanted to test his skills challenging famous marshal artists, so he could have children? lol.

Any way, I can not really comment much because I have not read any of the book about Niten ichi ryu and Nitou but I do know it includes kata.

Kendo has kata so as to practice old techniques in a controlled and more realistic way. No armor and a realistic shaped sword. Then you use armour and practice Kendo so as to get an idea as to the feeling of true combat and pressure.

I guess Niten ichi ryu is the kata and Nito is kendo part. Also like Naginata.

Musha-san please before before you give youre narrow opinion please think carefully of what you post. you didnt comprehend the meaning of those statements , you are way off .I suggest you read it very carefully and think deeply about it.

i am really impressed with Raiza-san's understanding. In regards to Hyaku Sensei, he is really in a good position to comment about Kendo and Niten Ichiryu, because first he is a yudansha in kendo and my teacher in Hyoho Niten Ichiryu.

dont guess it Hyoho Niten Ichiryu as Kata? dont kid youreself, you dont have a slightest idea. try to visit a Hyoho Niten Ichiryu Dojo and maybe you will be get an idea.

[Musha]

Hi, here is a link to the book I was talking about:

http://www.skijournal.co.jp/cgi-local/search.cgi?k.Category=%8C%95%93%B9&t=kendo/cgi_001&k.ISBN=4-7899-2082-8

If you follow the link that says [クリック] on the site I posted previously http://www.hakudoh.com/musasi/index.html you will find it because that is the site owned by the writer and Nito ryu teacher.
Lastly it is on the E-bogu books section in English :D .
http://www.e-bogu.com/nitoryu.html

[Musha]

I also found some kata for niten ichi ryu if you have good eyes :D

http://member.nifty.ne.jp/MAIC/japanese/niten/nitenQT.html

I dont think you would die if you tryed them in Kendo hehe

[Musha]

Ok I will answer my own question again then :D. In the introduction of the book that is killing me to read all the Kanji!!! :ditsy: it has a chart that includes all the people that studied and branched off from Miyamoto Musashi. It seems that the Musashi Kai school is another branch from Miyamoto's principles and uses another type of Kata that is more practical.

There are 7 schools using the two swords,
(Ha meaning school/group)
'Shinmen nito ryu' head master 'Igarashi ichitaka'.

'Niten ichi ryu' Musashi kai founded by 'Mr Araseki fusaburo nitou sai' head master 'Nakamura [Jyusoku]? ten shin'.

'Noda ha niten ichi ryu' Head master 'Araki [shoubaku]?'

'Murakami ha shoushou kei'

'Terao ha (Sanoha)'

and last but not least 'Santou ha (Hyoho niten ichi ryu ken jyutsu')
'Imai masayuki shinshou'.

I also understand now that Hyoho niten ichi ryu has different unprotected attack points. Unlike Niten ichi ryu musashikai in the book:

Ippon me at a guess :D:-

1) Both uke dachi and shi dachi start in Jodan (Shidachi has Shoto).
2) Both close there maai.
3) Uke dachi cuts shomen.
4)Shidachi blockes with his Shoto.
5) Shidachi seems to cut Gyaku (Left do).

Any one can tell me Hyoho niten ichi's Ippon kata? :D

[IZA]

Ok I will answer my own question again then :D. In the introduction of the book that is killing me to read all the Kanji!!! :ditsy: it has a chart that includes all the people that studied and branched off from Miyamoto Musashi. It seems that the Musashi Kai school is another branch from Miyamoto's principles and uses another type of Kata that is more practical.

There are 7 schools using the two swords,
(Ha meaning school/group)
'Shinmen nito ryu' head master 'Igarashi ichitaka'.

'Niten ichi ryu' Musashi kai founded by 'Mr Araseki fusaburo nitou sai' head master 'Nakamura [Jyusoku]? ten shin'.

'Noda ha niten ichi ryu' Head master 'Araki [shoubaku]?'

'Murakami ha shoushou kei'

'Terao ha (Sanoha)'

and last but not least 'Santou ha (Hyoho niten ichi ryu ken jyutsu')
'Imai masayuki shinshou'.

I also understand now that Hyoho niten ichi ryu has different unprotected attack points. Unlike Niten ichi ryu musashikai in the book:

Ippon me at a guess :D:-

1) Both uke dachi and shi dachi start in Jodan (Shidachi has Shoto).
2) Both close there maai.
3) Uke dachi cuts shomen.
4)Shidachi blockes with his Shoto.
5) Shidachi seems to cut Gyaku (Left do).

Any one can tell me Hyoho niten ichi's Ippon kata? :D

There is no branch off of Niten Ichiryu. Dont be mislead by books and sorts. some People picks a book and start to read and think they already know Niten Ichiryu- even in Japan!

Unprotected areas?

[Musha]

Lol Iza here is the E-mail of the Dojyo

hakudoh@nifty.com

Write an Email here saying that they do not exist and there 270p book is all fake and I will translate it into Japanese. See what there! reply is then :D.

[Gen'ei]

Excuse me but the name of the style that I think your talking about is,

Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu founded by Miyamoto Musashi no Genshin. Also known as the two sword style because they used the Wakszashi in one hand and a Katana in the other. It's purpose is very unique, principals are if a samurai was riding threw a battle feild full of samurai he would use a sheild on one hand and the Katana in the other then he would find that the Katana weighs more because he is use to using both hands to weild it same as a man learning how to ride a horse first he is thrown off but eventually he will command it like a dog to its master.


Sincerly: Gen'ei Ryusaki

[hyouriittai]

Excuse me but the name of the style that I think your talking about is,

Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu founded by Miyamoto Musashi no Genshin. Also known as the two sword style because they used the Wakszashi in one hand and a Katana in the other. It's purpose is very unique, principals are if a samurai was riding threw a battle feild full of samurai he would use a sheild on one hand and the Katana in the other then he would find that the Katana weighs more because he is use to using both hands to weild it same as a man learning how to ride a horse first he is thrown off but eventually he will command it like a dog to its master.


Sincerly: Gen'ei Ryusaki

Heh, I think your general idea here has been proposed by several other people in the thread.

[Gen'ei]

SUMIMASEN!!!

[IZA]

Lol Iza here is the E-mail of the Dojyo

hakudoh@nifty.com

Write an Email here saying that they do not exist and there 270p book is all fake and I will translate it into Japanese. See what there! reply is then :D.


LOL Musha -san

Dont worry there is already a response to that by the Hyoho Niten Ichiryu to what they are doing :)
No news? ah! its becuase you are outsider ne! :)

[Musha]

:confused:

[IZA]

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