WE GOT HIM!!!!

[misterkurukuru]

OH YEAH HAVE YOU HEARD??? WE GOT SADDAM!!! Major props to our Men and women in uniform!

[tango]

watching it now...

that's a nice christmas present, eh?

oo-rah!

[Shazzanzzz]

so... Can we declare national holiday and forget about the finals on monday for us college kids?

[Musha]

Um I may be wrong here but am I on the Kendo forum here?
Does Sadam practice kendo or did the US guys use Kendo to capture him? :normal:.

Or maybe he was like Oren and Uma had to fight 1000 sadam supporters to get to him? :rambo:.

[misterkurukuru]

If a Jack A$$ like you can post here, then we can talk about this if we want to. There are a lot of non kendo related threads on KWF, are you going to write your stupid remarks there too? This is a big deal!! Imagine if we caught Hitler alive after or during WW2? Belittling an event of this magnitude...nice way to show how retarded you are.

[Yowai]

Typical Americans.
Congratulations. You found your scapegoat. Short-minded Americans can now have a merry Christmas completely ignorant of Bush's lies. "We went into Iraq for their Weapons of Mass Destruction, but we found Saddam instead! Success!"

Have a nice day saluting murderers in uniform.

[Sanjuro]

Musha - this is the lounge...so anything off-topic is allowed.

At least they got Saddam, it would looked bad if the US wasn't able to find either Saddam or the WMDs.

Putting my personal opinion on the war aside...congrats to the US soldiers in Iraq.

[samurai999]

A hearty congratulations to our boys in uniform. It figures that Saddam was found in a hole in a ground. Amazing that they found the actual one knowing that he had like 3 or 4 likenesses that were present when he was Iraq's dictator.

Tim

[Musha]

Lol Yowai :D. Um I think you must be a truly stupid person misterkurukuru using words like that,,

But this forum says 'Anything that doesn't fit into one of the other forums.' I did not think that ment any thing you felt like saying,

What you had for tea last night.
The type of music you like and so on,,

They are talking about Sadam on the news right now, I dont need to come to a Kendo forum to find out about it too :D.

[1kuku1]

Lol Yowai :D. Um I think you must be a truly stupid person misterkurukuru using words like that,,

But this forum says 'Anything that doesn't fit into one of the other forums.' I did not think that ment any thing you felt like saying,

What you had for tea last night.
The type of music you like and so on,,

They are talking about Sadam on the news right now, I dont need to come to a Kendo forum to find out about it too :D.

musha..i so agree wid you..its all over the news misterkurkuru...i dnt need to come to a forum either n read about it all over again

[litige]

yowai is right, Saddam was nothing!
People in the US are no more afraid of the treath of Saddam, but they are still afraid of each other, that's why they kill themself with guns (like 10 000 every year). For me, I am more afraid to go in the United States than anywhere else in the world. Bush is a puppet, an the US government is a big Liar. GO TEXAS GO!

[aikanaro]

I agree with litige, 1kuku1, Musha and Yowai... there's enough hype already in the media ... belittling the event? maybe you shouldn't overstate its magnitude... If I want to know about it, I'll see the news, or go to a politics forum to discuss it.

On the other hand, I don't think that if anyone has a different opinion than you, he is automatically retarded - do you agree? ;)

[John W]

I have no doubt that Saddam is one evil man :evil:

However, in the 1980's the US gave him weapons so as to give Iran a hard time, same with old Osama Bin Laden and the Russians.

Funny how the US don't like to talk about those things.

WE GOT HIM....Be careful America- it seems to me that you are building up a big list of enemies and shrinking your list of allies.

You may think that your intentions are just and deserved but remember that you too spill the blood of innocent people in other countries. :cry:

[Nanbanjin]

Typical Americans.
Congratulations. You found your scapegoat. Short-minded Americans can now have a merry Christmas completely ignorant of Bush's lies. "We went into Iraq for their Weapons of Mass Destruction, but we found Saddam instead! Success!"

Have a nice day saluting murderers in uniform.
Thing is, what exactly are they going to charge him with now that they've found him?
Is he going to be tried by a military court?

I hope this event will result in less killings, but my guess is that the recent increase in anti-coalition attacks has not been orchestrated by Saddam Hussein from the back of his taxi.

More importantly, "short-minded" sounds like either an Americanism or a confusion of the terms "short-sighted" and "small-minded". I believe that the latter term is more appropriate here (No offence, but when I find what I feel just might be a mistake in your English I feel compelled to correct!).

[Yowai]

That mistake was an English IME error.

[Nanbanjin]

That mistake was an English IME error.
English IME? Yeah, that stuffs me up all the time too.

[William Honda]

"Have a nice day saluting murderers in uniform." _ Yowai

All I have to say is you are an a hole.

William

[Shiro]

Saddam was an asshole, there's nothing to say about that but before the first golf war and the embargo, Iraq wasn't the baddest country around there.
Many people could read, they had plenty of food and health wasn't something they had to worry about.
It's the embargo the Americans wanted that crippled the country!!!

Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship too, but do you know why Bush doesn't do anything against them? Because thay are his business partners!!!

You ever wondered why Bush is hated so much all around the world?....

[Shiro]

"Have a nice day saluting murderers in uniform." _ Yowai

All I have to say is you are an a hole.

William

Cheap insults prove our pount.
Get used to it, the US army killed more than its share of innocents.

[Onara]

"Have a nice day saluting murderers in uniform." _ Yowai

All I have to say is you are an a hole.

William ........
Well said

[Onara]

Cheap insults prove our pount.
Get used to it, the US army killed more than its share of innocents.
Civilians get killed during war, which is one great reason it should be avoided. It cannot always be avoided. That having been said; Which army has gone to greater lengths to avoid killing civilians? Ever?

[Onara]

[QUOTE=Shiro]Saddam was an asshole, there's nothing to say about that but before the first golf war and the embargo, Iraq wasn't the baddest country around there.
Many people could read, they had plenty of food and health wasn't something they had to worry about.
It's the embargo the Americans wanted that crippled the country!!!
QUOTE]

You need to extend your view of causes and effects. The embargo wasn't a lottery that Saddam 'won'. Ask Kuwait about that. Ask Saudi Arabia, or Egypt, or Israel. Under sanctions tons of food, medicine, money, and other aid intended to improve conditions for Iraqi citizens was diverted right to you-know-who. btw, the un was more than aware of this, and as usual did nothing (to say the least).

[Onara]

[QUOTE=Yowai]Typical Americans.
Congratulations. You found your scapegoat. Short-minded Americans QUOTE]


I've noticed you have a pretty crappy attitude!

[ALI G]

[QUOTE=Yowai]Typical Americans.
Congratulations. You found your scapegoat. Short-minded Americans QUOTE]


I've noticed you have a pretty crappy attitude!

Andz crappyz kendoz 2.............

[Shiro]

Civilians get killed during war, which is one great reason it should be avoided. It cannot always be avoided. That having been said; Which army has gone to greater lengths to avoid killing civilians? Ever?

Not the US Army for sure!
Should I remind you of a strategy used during the vietnam war that consisted in killing teachers, doctors, lawyers,.... ordered by none other than the US President of that time.

Face it, the us has blood on its hands.

Civilians die during war, but they should not die during wars that make your dear president richer!

[Shiro]

You need to extend your view of causes and effects. The embargo wasn't a lottery that Saddam 'won'. Ask Kuwait about that. Ask Saudi Arabia, or Egypt, or Israel. Under sanctions tons of food, medicine, money, and other aid intended to improve conditions for Iraqi citizens was diverted right to you-know-who. btw, the un was more than aware of this, and as usual did nothing (to say the least).

I don't say we should have let him do his work, but the embargo wasn't the right way to deal with it.....

And can I ask you why the US supported saddam during the 80's?

Face it, the US pulls out lie after lie after lie, just to secure it's own ass.

[Onara]

[QUOTE=Shiro]Not the US Army for sure!
QUOTE]

You are incorrect. Perhaps your political passions are clouding your judgement.

[Onara]

[QUOTE=Shiro]I don't say we should have let him do his work, but the embargo wasn't the right way to deal with it.....
QUOTE]

Are you familiar with the term 'armchair quarterback'?

[Nanbanjin]

Onara,


[QUOTE=Onara can't quote]Learn how to QUOTE]

[Onara]

I'm quote-challenged. Don't make me call my lawyer!

[Nanbanjin]

I'm quote-challenged. Don't make me call my lawyer!
I'm prejudiced against the quote-challenged, but don't quote me on that.

[Onara]

I'm prejudiced against the quote-challenged, but don't quote me on that.
.......................
LOL

[Shiro]

I'm quote-challenged. Don't make me call my lawyer!

I don't see the "[/" that should be before the closing quote tag, that might be the problem.

I'm not trying to state I hate all americans, I'm just saying that the United States Government isn't clean at all. There was massive protest against the Vietnam war too.
I'm fond of history and I didn't invent what I say, in fact it comes from testimonies of old CIA agents.

[Onara]

I don't see the "[/" that should be before the closing quote tag, that might be the problem.

I'm not trying to state I hate all americans, I'm just saying that the United States Government isn't clean at all.

An argument could be made that 'government' by definition cannot be entirely clean.

[Shiro]

An argument could be made that 'government' by definition cannot be entirely clean.

You might have a point there.

Anyway, I'm not trying to sell cheap anti-americanism here.
It's just that the US government has made serious mistakes (and I'm not trying to say it's the only one who's bad, either).

But do the world a favor and get rid of Bush at the next elections, please. :)

[Onara]

But do the world a favor and get rid of Bush at the next elections, please. :)
Have you actually seen the Democrat candidates?

[Shiro]

Have you actually seen the Democrat candidates?

Hey, Wesley Clark looks good to me.

Bush is only good at upsetting people and throwing money away, believe me.

[Onara]

Hey, Wesley Clark looks good to me.

Bush is only good at upsetting people and throwing money away, believe me.
Maybe you need to look a bit more closely at 'ol whiny Wesley.


btw "Believe me"? Why should I believe you? No offense, but that' a pretty strange declaration.

[Shiro]

btw "Believe me"? Why should I believe you? No offense, but that' a pretty strange declaration.

Because as a non-american (Belgian to be precise), I have the feeling that "President" Bush really doesn't give a damn about what other countries think of him. He just does what is good for his own pocket (and the pockets of the industry guys that manipulate him), that's all.
As I said earlier: ever wondered why so much people hate him (even in America!)?
He's dangerous, even for his own country!

Come on, he kept on rattling about weapons of mass destruction and freedom for the Iraqi people. So where are the weapons of mass destruction?
And how come they secured the oil fields first instead of focusing on the people's needs?

I don't have anything against american people in particular, but face it, you have a bad president right now.
He used 9/11 to justify whatever he wanted to do and he sent thousands and thousands of american kids into a war that shouldn't have been fought. The war in Iraq was about oil and money NOT about freedom, if you want my idea of it. And I'm not even talking about his "tax cut"......
In fact he shouldn't even have been president, he cheated on the elections!

I bet there are americans on this forum that share my point of view.

Now, I'm not saying the democrats are angels, but they're definitely the "lesser evil". Call Clark a whiner if you want, but I think he'd do a lot of good to your country.

[Onara]

Because as a non-american, I have the feeling that "President" Bush ...

Whoa, stop right there. So I should "believe you" and your "feelings" because you're not American? Because you are more distant from the subject? Because you get your news about my country from a hostile european press? Because you make statements like "come on now", "let's face it", "definitely the lesser evil"? Do you possess the power to bend reality to your will by making such grand declarations? Being really, really, really sure you're right doesn't make it so.

I'll make you a deal. I won't presume to explain Belgium's electoral process to you if you extend me the same courtesy in regard to the US. ok?

Go find yourself an Iraqi and ask him if the war had "nothing to do with freedom".

Securing the oil fields was (obviously) necessary to avert an environmental disaster and to preserve one of the most important resources for the Iraqi people when stability returns to the country.

Finally, the American people will decide whether or not to re-elect the President, without your help.

If an American were to talk about Belgium the way that you have spoken about the US, I would find that highly inappropriate. What is it that you are missing?

[KhawMengLee]

Whoa, stop right there. So I should "believe you" and your "feelings" because you're not American? Because you are more distant from the subject? Because you get your news about my country from a hostile european press? Because you make statements like "come on now", "let's face it", "definitely the lesser evil"? Do you possess the power to bend reality to your will by making such grand declarations? Being really, really, really sure you're right doesn't make it so.

I'll make you a deal. I won't presume to explain Belgium's electoral process to you if you extend me the same courtesy in regard to the US. ok?

Go find yourself an Iraqi and ask him if the war had "nothing to do with freedom".

Securing the oil fields was (obviously) necessary to avert an environmental disaster and to preserve one of the most important resources for the Iraqi people when stability returns to the country.

Finally, the American people will decide whether or not to re-elect the President, without your help.

If an American were to talk about Belgium the way that you have spoken about the US, I would find that highly inappropriate. What is it that you are missing?

No...the war was never about freedom. Thats just for the suckers out there. It's oil oil oil baby!

At the start Bush said it was about WMD's, then suddenly about Saddam's oppressive regime when the WMD story turned to be bull. Whilst I was in the UK I had a good chat with ppl directly involved in the WMD inspection team and the reply was that it was total bull.

The news we get outside the US is more accurate than you think. We get to watch both sides of the spectrum and take our pick.

You may have "freed" the Shiites but it doesn't mean they'll thank you...you got to remember that Saddam was a Sunni and a lot more easy to deal with that the fundamentalist who are now going to be in power.(Being that the shiites are the majority and a democracy has been put in place). At the moment the US forces are going about it the wrong way...they do not understand the ppl and culture, doing things the american way because they feel its the right way...things like using dogs to search people(a muslim no no), storming into Mosques, stamping on the quoran..etc...

Iraq is gonna be a nightmare repeat of Vietnam for the poor saps fighting out there whilst Bush and his cronies line their pockets.

[Onara]

No...the war was never about freedom.
As I said, go ask an Iraqi about that.

[Onara]

At the start Bush said it was about WMD's, then suddenly about Saddam's oppressive regime when the WMD story turned to be bull. Whilst I was in the UK I had a good chat with ppl directly involved in the WMD inspection team and the reply was that it was total bull.
.
Its funny that none of the hind-sight sages in europe made the claim that he didn't have any weapons before the war. Many governments were opposed to going to war, but even france and germany didn't claim (officially) that there were no weapons. Hell, if there really weren't any weapons, then ol' saddam bought himself a load of trouble when it would have been pretty easy to avert.

Maybe they dug up all the reason needed when they uncovered the mass graves. Maybe that doesn't matter to you.

[Onara]

The news we get outside the US is more accurate than you think.

I sincerely believe that you think so.

[KhawMengLee]

As I said, go ask an Iraqi about that.

depends of who you ask. Ask a Sunni and he'll tell ya to piss off. Ask a shiite and he might welcome you with open arms...or tell you "Freedom? what's the point? I have no job, no water or electricity..."

Thought I really love the clip I saw a few months ago in the UK where a group of protestors were arguing with US forces.

Protestor: US out! We don't want you here!

USMC Sarge: Look, the reason you have the freedom here and now to do this, is because of us!

Protestor: We don't care, we want you out!

USMC Sarge: Look, if you don't leave this area we'll take you away.

Protestor: Huh?!

Yup, real freedom and democracy there...

[Onara]

You may have "freed" the Shiites but it doesn't mean they'll thank you...you got to remember that Saddam was a Sunni and a lot more easy to deal with that the fundamentalist who are now going to be in power.(Being that the shiites are the majority and a democracy has been put in place). At the moment the US forces are going about it the wrong way...they do not understand the ppl and culture, doing things the american way because they feel its the right way...things like using dogs to search people(a muslim no no), storming into Mosques, stamping on the quoran..etc...

I know exactly what the Red Sox should have done to beat the Yankees. Why am I not a baseball manager?

[Shiro]

Whoa, stop right there. So I should "believe you" and your "feelings" because you're not American?
I'm not saying you should believe me because I'm not american, I say that I have the right to feel insulted by Bush for the way he acts towards Europeans and other countries that do not agree with him.


Because you get your news about my country from a hostile european press? Actually, I get my news from CNN Europe and a couple of American newspaper sites. That's not all, I watch the news from several tv channels, read from several papers and the main stream of all those news messages is that Bush is a dope and that the Iraq war is a blunder that will cost the us a lot.


Do you possess the power to bend reality to your will by making such grand declarations? I posses the power to read and listen to news, see above.


I'll make you a deal. I won't presume to explain Belgium's electoral process to you if you extend me the same courtesy in regard to the US. ok?Talk about Belgium all you want, it's fine with me. I'm not saying Belgium is perfect either. It's just that things that happen in America sometimes have big international consequences, so I feel like I have the right to give my opinion about it. Isn't that a part of freedom you americans all love? ;)


Securing the oil fields was (obviously) necessary to avert an environmental disaster and to preserve one of the most important resources for the Iraqi people when stability returns to the country. Honestly, since when does the US government care about the environment?! Remember, Bush didn't sign the Kyoto Protocol, he bended envrionmental regulations to suit his industrial buddies. So, please, don't give me bullshit about the US caring about environment...... Especially since the US is the most polluting country on earth.


If an American were to talk about Belgium the way that you have spoken about the US, I would find that highly inappropriate.
No, not at all. If my country invaded another country for no other reason than money and oil, I would expect a fair amount of criticism.


Its funny that none of the hind-sight sages in europe made the claim that he didn't have any weapons before the war.
Saddam having those weapons was a possibility, so it would have been dangerous to claim there weren't any without investigating. We waited for the report of the weapon inspectors. What's the situation now? Hans Blix says he didn't meet any big problem investigating and the US Army hasn't found any weapons of mass destruction. So I guess we "hind-sight sages" turned out to be right, no?


I know exactly what the Red Sox should have done to beat the Yankees. Why am I not a baseball manager?
I think I remember KhawMengLee comes from Malaysia, wich is a country with a majority of muslims. So I think he knows something about what's insulting to a muslim or not.

Finally, you still haven't answered a question I asked: Ever wondered why so much people hate Bush (even in America!)?

[Shiro]

Here's a nice site for you, Onara:
http://www.michaelmoore.com

and be sure to read this if you go:
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php

[Onara]

I watch the news from several tv channels, read from several papers and the main stream of all those news messages is that Bush is a dope and that the Iraq war is a blunder that will cost the us a lot.

Oh yeah. Sounds completely objective. Really.

[Onara]

I posses the power to read and listen to news, see above.


You have the 'power' to read biased reporting that agrees with your preconcieved notions. What a scholar.

[Onara]

Talk about Belgium all you want, it's fine with me.
I don't want to. I wouldn't want to make the mistake of assuming that my limited knowledge of Belgium qualifies me to tell you about the realities of your own nation (even if I including such indisputable proof as "believe me").

[Onara]

Honestly, since when does the US government care about the environment?! Remember, Bush didn't sign the Kyoto Protocol, he bended envrionmental regulations to suit his industrial buddies. So, please, don't give me bullshit about the US caring about environment...... Especially since the US is the most polluting country on earth.

I've been trying to take you seriously, but statements like the above make it very difficult. If your bias is the beginning and end of all your views and positions, fine. But don't expect me to consider you anything other than an irrational ideologe.

Btw, the Kyoto Protocol was simply a bad treaty, mainly intended to win political points for certain politicians who knew damn well that it stood no chance of being enacted. Notice that most european governments didn't ratify it until after it had become clear that the US would not (thereby rendering it moot, but also making it a very safe way to bolster political support among green-heads). Hell, if it had been enacted, the economic suicide of the US would have hurt europe just as much (which those hypocritical politicians knew full well. They would have shit themselves if the US had agreed to it!)

As far as most polluting country...don't they teach you economics over there?

Bullshit about the US caring about the environment? How 'bout don't give me your bullshit political bias in regards to my country? Wasn't this how this whole conversation began?

[Onara]

No, not at all. If my country invaded another country for no other reason than money and oil, I would expect a fair amount of criticism.

Here we go again. Have you taken my advice and talked to an Iraqi about this yet? Your "no other reason" bullshit is pretty annoying and an extremely illogical statement.


Btw, have you noticed all the tons and tons of oil and money that the US has gained from all this? No, I haven't either.

[Onara]

I think I remember KhawMengLee comes from Malaysia, wich is a country with a majority of muslims. So I think he knows something about what's insulting to a muslim or not.


????????????
What is this in reference to?

[Onara]

Finally, you still haven't answered a question I asked: Ever wondered why so much people hate Bush (even in America!)?
The people who "hate" are a small number of extremists like you. Many people have many opinions about politics. Didn't you mention freedom of speech? Ironically, its people like you who stifle meaningful political discussion.

[Onara]

Here's a nice site for you, Onara:
http://www.michaelmoore.com (http://www.michaelmoore.com/)

and be sure to read this if you go:
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php
Well, doesn't this tell me everything I need to know about you. That fat dishonest clown isn't taken seriously by any but the most uninformed extremists. He's widely viewed as a joke. But to you...

[Onara]

depends of who you ask. Ask a Sunni and he'll tell ya to piss off. Ask a shiite and he might welcome you with open arms...or tell you "Freedom? what's the point? I have no job, no water or electricity..."

..
You are full of it. Nobody likes to be occupied, and the people are facing many hardships, but it is a very very small minority of Iraqis who are not thrilled to have the hussien regime gone. That does not mean they are happy to have a military presence there (lets try to use just a bit of logic in drawing conclusions).

"What's the point?" Seems the point is that you are taking something for granted that not everyone can.

[samurai999]

Here's a nice site for you, Onara:
http://www.michaelmoore.com

and be sure to read this if you go:
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php

Whew.. Way too liberal for me.. This guy is so far left he can actually try kendo. haha

Tim

[Shiro]

Well, doesn't this tell me everything I need to know about you. That fat dishonest clown isn't taken seriously by any but the most uninformed extremists. He's widely viewed as a joke. But to you...

First of all, I didn't put this site because it's michael moore. If you look more closely, there are tons of links to articles in tons of different newspapers and information sites.

I have gathered some of them:

===========
= Reuters =
===========

Halliburton gets a lot of contracts in Iraq. Dick Cheney used to be ceo of it, weird isn't

it? ;)
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=businessNews&storyID=3996701

There ARE a lot of americans against bush. You'll find Moore's book at nr 2 in the

nonfiction best selling list, months after it came out:

http://www.nytimes.com/pages/books/bestseller/
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=4025475

Raiding a mosque isn't really the smartest thing to do in a muslim country, especially if

the majority is shiite.....
http://www.reuters.com/locales/newsArticle.jsp?type=worldNews&locale=en_IN&storyID=4066569


=======
= BBC =
=======

mobile protest
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3280611.stm

The use of depleted uranium is very dangerous for health, so why do americans do it in a

country they want to free?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/europe/2001/depleted_uranium/default.stm

Jessica Lynch Propaganda
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3262377.stm

How nice: Bush doesn't give a damn about Civilians being killed in Iraq. Didn't he say he

was going to war for the Iraqi people?.....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3311705.stm

The Kyoto protocol isn't economical suicide, it's common sense. Besides, some people might

not want american stuff exactly for that reason.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3296819.stm

If even Jay Garner admits there were screw ups......
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3239166.stm

American media are only showing one side of the conflict? duh...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/3232852.stm

Bush doesn't want to believe in Global warming because he would make less money if he did

something about it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3312147.stm


============
= Guardian =
============

Even in the UK, many people don't really like Bush. Coalition of the Willing, hey.... :p
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4798737-103685,00.html

Criticizing bush is common sense, not anti-americanism
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1087491,00.html

Again, depleted uranium.....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uranium/

They really wanted war, I think that's clear enough....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1082289,00.html


===================
= Washington Post =
===================

War hero rips bush
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?

pagename=article&node=&contentId=A39144-2003Nov14&notFound=true

Rumsfeld kicks down the doors
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54655-2004Jan4.html

So you said the US cared about environment?.....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26001-2003Dec23.html

Capturing saddam is nothing
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A540-2003Dec15.html?referrer=emailarticle

wp TO CHECK
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A44381-2003Dec7.html

Anti-terror funds?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A6311-2003Nov22?language=printer

Nice way of honoring people who served the nation, really....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36979-2003Dec28.html?referrer=emailarticle


=========
= MSNBC =
=========

Bush doesn't really care about the american casualties either...
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3660784/

The patriot act, isn't it beautiful to live in a country with so much 'freedom'? :)
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3540572/


=======
= CNN =
=======

Bush doesn't really care about what his advisors have to say either.....
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/09/oneill.bush/index.html

Could you name me one country (except the US) where he is acrtually liked?
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/11/11/britain.bush.poll.ap/index.html

I'm sure Blair enjoyed the visit :)
http://cnn.allpolitics.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&expire=

-1&urlID=8218511&fb=Y&partnerID=2001

==============
= The Nation =
==============

Lies, lies, lies,...
http://www.thenation.com/capitalgames/index.mhtml?bid=3&pid=1149

Bush's entourage isn't really clean either, look at Dick Cheney (his name suits him very

well :) )
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040112&s=ireland

I think a nation that's comfortable with what it's doing wouldn't mind that much about

journalists.....
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040112&s=rozen


================================================== ========
= And Various other sources I'm to lazy to categorize :p =
================================================== ========

Cluster bombs for the Iraqi children...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-12-10-cluster-bomb-cover_x.htm

Free speech isn't Bush's best friend
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?

file=/chronicle/archive/2004/01/04/INGPQ40MB81.DTL

Aren't you forgetting some jobless people?
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?

tmpl=story&cid=2026&e=20&u=/latimes_ts/joblesscountskipsmillions

Patriot act, again
http://www.sacurrent.com/site/news.cfm?

newsid=10705756&BRD=2318&PAG=461&dept_id=482778&rfi=6
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/12/12/patriot_act_hearings_sought_by_democr

ats/

Rumsfeld used to like Saddam
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=475931
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EL17Ak01.html

9/11, abused by Bush
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?

pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1072134612206&call_pageid=968332188854&

col=968350060724
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/17/eveningnews/main589137.shtml

unhappy about saddam's capture
http://www.newsnet5.com/news/2704823/detail.html

Bush, Misleader
http://www.misleader.org/daily_mislead/Read.asp?fn=df12162003.html

Off course Bush loves freedom, his own freedom!
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/opinion/7449023.htm

Amnesty International has something to say about the US exports
http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/usa/document.do?id=F7CE0B13E65E100085256DF00050B882

And Robert Kennedy jr. about Bush and environment
http://www.rollingstone.com/features/nationalaffairs/featuregen.asp?pid=2154

Bush is stupid (duh...) and I can assure you there are LOTS of people who think that in

Europe
http://www.news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2181946

Not counting Iraqi deaths? So you don't give a damn about the people you want to free?!
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2003/11/14/us_stays_blind_

to_iraqi_casualties?mode=PF

Anti-war veterans not allowed in a parade
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/111203/met_14020003.shtml

Gun laws in America....
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001793271_guns17.html

heavy critics
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/03/52/features-cooper.php

Hate might be a strong word, but Bush is not liked here
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/story/135950p-121009c.html

Bush, no friend of soldiers
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=0-ARMYPAPER-2354866.php

Rummy forgets
http://www.starbanner.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2003211090375

'Useful' alerts
http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101030224/


You can say anything you want about me, I checked different sources before I started thinking what I think now.

[Shiro]

I think you misunderstood me on one big point: I am not a cheap america-hater. I hate the people who hijacked your country and are pushing it towards a situation that could be harmful for a whole bunch of countries, not the american people.

Actually, I am really grateful towards the USA for some things.

Look into a history book:
- Who helped Europe in World War I (1914 - 1918)? The USA!
- Who financed the reconstruction of Europe after that war? The USA!
- Who saved Europe's ass against the germans in the second World War? The USA!
- Who welcomed immigrants from all over the world to give them a new life? The USA!

And therefor: Thank you, USA!

I am not saying "down with America", I am saying "Kick Bush and his buddies out!". Okay, I'm not american and you probably think I should shut up about it, but no! Bush and his buddies insulted Europe and made some really wrong decisions that are having consequences outside the US.

Really, wake up, look for information elsewhere than on the big tv channels owned by Murdock and you'll see there are things to be done quickly.
I'm not saying this as someone who hates you, I'm saying this as someone who tries to be your friend.

I'm not going to give any opinion about certain issues in this post, I just want to be sure you really understand my state of mind.

[Onara]

You had already told me that you pander to the biased, liberal media. Why waste your time? Would you like me to post ten miles of articles that "prove" another point of view? There is bias on all sides. Don't be dupe, think for yourself.

[Onara]

I think you misunderstood me on one big point: I am not a cheap america-hater. I hate the people who hijacked your country and are pushing it towards a situation that could be harmful for a whole bunch of countries, not the american people.
I am not saying "down with America", I am saying "Kick Bush and his buddies out!". Okay, I'm not american and you probably think I should shut up about it,
You are entitled to an opinion like anyone else, but your "hey man, wake up! I'll tell you how it is with your country" attitude is pretty annoying. I'll say again: We, the American people, will decide who will or will not be our president. We don't need a lot of 'help' from europe in this, and I don't give a rat's ass if europe is offended in any way. I would assume that Belgium also looks after its best interests whether or not Togo is 'offended' by it.

I appreciate your attempts to be kind to me personally, but don't tell me you "hate" my government and expect me to shake your hand. That government is the representative of the American people. I would not presume to offend your country and expect you to love me for it. Maybe there is a difference of cultures at play here.

[Shiro]

I think you misunderstood me on one big point: I am not a cheap america-hater. I hate the people who hijacked your country and are pushing it towards a situation that could be harmful for a whole bunch of countries, not the american people.

Actually, I am really grateful towards the USA for some things.

Look into a history book:
- Who helped Europe in World War I (1914 - 1918)? The USA!
- Who financed the reconstruction of Europe after that war? The USA!
- Who saved Europe's ass against the germans in the second World War? The USA!
- Who welcomed immigrants from all over the world to give them a new life? The USA!

And therefor: Thank you, USA!

I am not saying "down with America", I am saying "Kick Bush and his buddies out!". Okay, I'm not american and you probably think I should shut up about it, but no! Bush and his buddies insulted Europe and made some really wrong decisions that are having consequences outside the US.

Really, wake up, look for information elsewhere than on the big tv channels owned by Murdock and you'll see there are things to be done quickly.
I'm not saying this as someone who hates you, I'm saying this as someone who tries to be your friend.

I'm not going to give any opinion about certain issues in this post, I just want to be sure you really understand my state of mind.

I quote my article to be sure you read this

Biased? I took american and UK sources.... If I took articles from Al Jazeera, I would have agreed, but there.....

But in a way you're right, I took articles that talk about my point of view. I did it on purpose, I wanted to prove that my thoughts about it are rational and that what I think isn't made up. At least I showed you where my way of thinking comes from.
The problem with pro-war articles is that they all reapeat shit that comes from either Bush, Rumsfeld or Powell. So they're biased too.

[Onara]

I quote my article to be sure you read this

Biased? I took american and UK sources.... If I took articles from Al Jazeera, I would have agreed, but there.....

But in a way you're right, I took articles that talk about my point of view. I did it on purpose, I wanted to prove that my thoughts about it are rational and that what I think isn't made up. At least I showed you where my way of thinking comes from.
The problem with pro-war articles is that they all reapeat shit that comes from either Bush, Rumsfeld or Powell. So they're biased too.
Are you even aware of what you are doing? Those items that support your view are "sources", and those that do not are "shit". You are either very careless in your use of language or you are less than honest in your discourse.

[Shiro]

Sorry, you did read it, I wasn't sure because our posts came out at the same time.

[Shiro]

Are you even aware of what you are doing? Those items that support your view are "sources", and those that do not are "shit". You are either very careless in your use of language or you are less than honest in your discourse.

Careless in my use of language, I'd say.
I just wanted to point out the fact that most of the things I heard that were pro-war came from the same three people.

[Shiro]

You are entitled to an opinion like anyone else, but your "hey man, wake up! I'll tell you how it is with your country" attitude is pretty annoying. I'll say again: We, the American people, will decide who will or will not be our president. We don't need a lot of 'help' from europe in this, and I don't give a rat's ass if europe is offended in any way. I would assume that Belgium also looks after its best interests whether or not Togo is 'offended' by it.

I appreciate your attempts to be kind to me personally, but don't tell me you "hate" my government and expect me to shake your hand. That government is the representative of the American people. I would not presume to offend your country and expect you to love me for it. Maybe there is a difference of cultures at play here.

If I follow your way of thinking, I don't care if you find it annoying or not.

Actually, Belgium would care if someone was offended.

But let's reverse the roles: what do you think about Europe?

[Onara]

But let's reverse the roles: what do you think about Europe?
Let's not.

[Shiro]

Let's not.
Fine

I have another question for you. You accuse me of reading biased news, but tell me, on what do you base your thoughts about this subject?

[Onara]

Fine

I have another question for you. You accuse me of reading biased news, but tell me, on what do you base your thoughts about this subject?
I already told you that there is bias on all sides. I read everything I can and make up my mind. I do not presume that making up my mind somehow confers upon me the power to shape reality to my will. My opinion is my opinion. It is not scripture handed down from the almighty. I try to keep that in mind as I express my views. So should you.

[Shiro]

I already told you that there is bias on all sides. I read everything I can and make up my mind. I do not presume that making up my mind somehow confers upon me the power to shape reality to my will. My opinion is my opinion. It is not scripture handed down from the almighty. I try to keep that in mind as I express my views. So should you.

What you say there doesn't make any sense. If you look at the list of articles I posted you will notice that the articles come from a lot of different sources and I've even left out sources because you had to register to acces the sites.
I made up my mind the same way as you did, the only difference is that you probably only checked american news sources. I check belgian news, french news, english news and american news. I also watch Euronews (some sort of European CNN).
I don't think what I think because I read it, I think what I think because I developped my own image of it. You just don't like it because I don't agree with you.
I believe you when you say you read everything you can, but I think you just don't care about things that try to prove the opposite of what you think.
Don't worry, I listened to Bush telling he wantad to go to war, I listened to Rumsfeld and Powell. I listened to Tony Blair when he was trying to convince the House of Commons to go to war. But I don't agree with people that want to go to war so badly, not because I read it somewhere, but because I personally feel so.
They told there were weapons of mass destruction, but where's the evidence now?
The UN had weapon inspectors on the spot and they didn't meet any real big opposition while investigating, so why push so hard for a war?
I honestly think there was no evidence or no real big security reason to go to war there, wether you agree with it or not. I don't say that because Michael Moore says so, I don't say that because I don't want to agree with bush, I say that because that's what I personally think of it.
Is it so hard for you to admit you can be wrong? (I know I can be wrong too about this subject, don't worry about that)

[Onara]

the only difference is that you probably only checked american news sources.

And you base this assumption upon...?

[Onara]

I honestly think

Ah! There we go! Would it have killed you to say that from the get-go? That works much better than "Believe me", "There is no doubt", "Clearly", "Let me tell you", "Everybody......", and other statements of a categorical nature. Try to remember.

[Shiro]

And you base this assumption upon...?

The word "Probably" means I think it is that way, not that I'm sure of it.

You said you didn't give a rats ass about what others think about the US, so why would you bother reading foreign news?

[Shiro]

Ah! There we go! Would it have killed you to say that from the get-go? That works much better than "Believe me", "There is no doubt", "Clearly", "Let me tell you", "Everybody......", and other statements of a categorical nature. Try to remember.

What the hell is wrong with saying "I honestly think"?
Is it too hard to read for you if I add those words?

My way of using english might not be pleasant for you, but I honestly think (look! I did it again!) you will have to learn to live with it.

[Onara]

The word "Probably" means I think it is that way, not that I'm sure of it.

You said you didn't give a rats ass about what others think about the US, so why would you bother reading foreign news?
Um, for news?

[Shiro]

What the hell is wrong with saying "I honestly think"?
Is it too hard to read for you if I add those words?

My way of using english might not be pleasant for you, but I honestly think (look! I did it again!) you will have to learn to live with it.

Sorry about this post, I misread your post :D
shit happens

[Shiro]

Um, for news?

I don't really understand what you mean by that