sweep the leg

[jjcruiser]

My sensei mentioned the other day in class that in Kendo it used to be permissible to use leg sweeps but that it was stopped eventually due to too many injuries.

I've never seen a reference to this in any of the books I have. Does anyone know when this change was made? It makes me wonder what else has been changed in the past 100 years (besides the mune-tsuki target, which is the only other one I can think of off-hand).

No, I have no interest in seeing it return or not return. Just curious.

(Btw, an old thread on here referred to a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsX1A2EIndY&search=kendo) showing some leg sweeps (so it had to be post 1940 or so I would imagine) but the KW thread never answered the question -- it devolved into a debate about when WWII ended and what constitutes "pre-war Kendo").

Any suggested references for a thorough history of 20th Century Kendo (in English)?

[Bear of Doom]

no reference im afraid, just know that it is common knowledge this is a move of pre-war kendo ... and was probably outlawed until the reintroduction. sorry if that was unhelpful!

I heard the Haga dojo still do it though ... someone will have to confirm on that though.

[Andrew S]

no reference im afraid, just know that it is common knowledge this is a move of pre-war kendo ... and was probably outlawed until the reintroduction. sorry if that was unhelpful!

I heard the Haga dojo still do it though ... someone will have to confirm on that though.
I have a feeling that a couple of years back someone posted a video from a 1950's program that did a feature on kendo. The demonstration definitly included leg sweeps.

According to Hiden magazine, the Haga dojo used to permit leg sweeps and throws, and recendly revived some of these for a competition. I'll have to recheck.

[hl1978]

look up the black ships of kendo in the articles section, there are several articles there which should help answer your question.

[Toecutter]

I also had a sensei tell me that pulling off the men was acceptable.

[ratdeau]

Some people still play this way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs9G7P0MA2A

[nykroth]

Some people still play this way

Indeed they do:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5XXDvDtkKU

Check out the upper shiai-jo at 2:03.

[Kent Enfield]

Some people still play this way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs9G7P0MA2A:rolleyes:
That looks like what usually happens when people try to recreate some sort of pre-war or "real sword" kendo. They start coming up with waza that take advantage of a method of striking and following through that didn't develop until after ashigarami, kumiuchi, and the like were prohibited.

In that video, the ashigarami from tsubazeriai is the only technique even close to what I've read described in pre-war kendo books. Of course the same books describe tsubazeriai as something to be avoided and escaped as quickly as you can if you do find yourself in it, but none of these attempts at reconstruction ever do that part.

[mugen no junin]

this (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18490) was an old thread discussing the topic :wink:

about the OP video, I like how the left guy disarmed the other kenshi and followed with tsuki at 3:36...simply brilliant

[JoonShik]

They use leg sweeps and the occasional flipping of the opponent in the All Japan Police competitions, but everywhere else is banned.

[Rennis]

I've also heard that this kind of training still happens in police dojos and have heard reference to "police kendo rules" a number of times.

[Anonymous]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssAvULPzuzg

[jjcruiser]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssAvULPzuzg

I can't believe it took 10 replies for someone to reference this. ;)

Thanks for the responses all, which generated some interesting video and reading.

[NigelSponge]

Indeed they do:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5XXDvDtkKU

Check out the upper shiai-jo at 2:03.

"....no sensei..:down:"
rofl

[GothMelancolia]

Sorry if it was posted before

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWQlx6CZMOo

[Kent Enfield]

Sorry if it was posted beforeIn the very first post.

[Bear of Doom]

check this one out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXIFHWqlyHY&feature=related

i was amused ... and i wish hand made bogu would still cost £8-80 =P
and that one can be reasonably decent (can't remember the exact words used) within 6 months ... what happened to lifetime perfection eh

[Bruce Mitchell]

http://www.sweeptheleg.com/

[one_eyed_war]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssAvULPzuzg

lol:) nice show of a clean fight:cheeky:

[rfoxmich]

We once had a guy in the dojo that would try to slip in a knee to the groin every now and then in tsuba zeriai. I cured him by choking up on my shinai a bit and lowering it so each time he tried, his quad would come in violent contact with my tsuka gashira oh...so sorry.

[8dragonkings]

Interesting,

I have trained with some of the police when I was living in Hokkaido, but I never had the luxury of seeing any leg sweeps or throws. Too bad... it probably would have discouraged many of my opponents from coming in and doing techniques from Tsubazeriai as I am 270lbs and pretty skilled in grappling techniques. Most of my memories of Kendo in Japan are of getting embarassed by many of the faster little guys in our club. Now I am learning to use my reach better. Still though it would nice to try this more practical form of Kendo.

[Chozo003]

... I imagine that sweeps would be fairly dangerous in kendo, seeing as kendoka do not practice ukemi.