Are we really improving ourselves through Kendo?

[Rawoo]

Just wanna bring up this issue.
is Kendo really making us better people? improving our mind and body?
Afterall Kendo is still a violent sport which was developed from an ancient art of killing,
And we are humans, and we do develop lots of aggression and hate through something like Kendo if we are not careful.
I mean jesus why the hell do we even do kendo!!??
Are we really from the bottom of our heart wanting to become a better person through kendo trainings???
:rolleyes:

[Nanbanjin]

Just wanna bring up this issue.
is Kendo really making us better people? improving our mind and body?
Afterall Kendo is still a violent sport which was developed from an ancient art of killing,
And we are humans, and we do develop lots of aggression and hate through something like Kendo if we are not careful.
I mean jesus why the hell do we even do kendo!!??
Are we really from the bottom of our heart wanting to become a better person through kendo trainings???
:rolleyes:
Kendo's fun isn't it? Maybe I'm in the minority. I've never given the killing side of things much thought.

[Shiro]

Just wanna bring up this issue.
is Kendo really making us better people? improving our mind and body?
Afterall Kendo is still a violent sport which was developed from an ancient art of killing,
And we are humans, and we do develop lots of aggression and hate through something like Kendo if we are not careful.
I mean jesus why the hell do we even do kendo!!??
Are we really from the bottom of our heart wanting to become a better person through kendo trainings???
:rolleyes:

You should have read something about the history of kendo as we know it before writing this...... :p

[litige]

kendo not violent at all.

[litige]

is, between kendo and not

[Yowai]

"Improving ourselves?" That concept must be another silly spiritualistic nonsense associated with Kendo. Do we "improve ourselves" with rugby? Basketball? Tennis? We improve our physical aspect but that improvement does not connote a "better person." A kendo master can still be a murderer, rapist, or thief.

[Will]

I think we are. It's easy to learn humility when one day you win a tournament and think you're the best and the next day get the beat down at the other tournament...and then the next...and then the one after that too.
Plus i think we get rid of the human aggression and stuff by doing kendo. By simulating beating people with sticks, we can get rid of all that inner tension, or something like that.

[Rawoo]

Calm Down people I am not saying anything intrusive, at least not intentionally.
I am just bringing up something that maybe we should think about, if u think this is nonsense then dont worry about it.
But in reality I have seen lots and lots of kendo players who have developed too much hate and aggression through kendo.
Everytime I enter my Dojo, I'd hate to think like this:" Oh shit I gotta deal with him again!"
I am sure some of u have had this feeling, and I am sure nobody likes it.
I have seen many good players developed too much pride and when they loose a match they go bad.
I have seen many bad players simply cant get any point from the correct techniques and what they do is trying incorrect ones.
and bla bla..... :rolleyes:

[Nanbanjin]

Calm Down people I am not saying anything intrusive, at least not intentionally.
I am just bringing up something that maybe we should think about, if u think this is nonsense then dont worry about it.
But in reality I have seen lots and lots of kendo players who have developed too much hate and aggression through kendo.
Everytime I enter my Dojo, I'd hate to think like this:" Oh shit I gotta deal with him again!"
I am sure some of u have had this feeling, and I am sure nobody likes it.
I have seen many good players developed too much pride and when they loose a match they go bad.
I have seen many bad players simply cant get any point from the correct techniques and what they do is trying incorrect ones.
and bla bla..... :rolleyes:
You'll come across people that are hard to get along with whatever you care to do. Don't let yourself become part of their problem.

[ALI G]

"Improving ourselves?" That concept must be another silly spiritualistic nonsense associated with Kendo. Do we "improve ourselves" with rugby? Basketball? Tennis? We improve our physical aspect but that improvement does not connote a "better person." A kendo master can still be a murderer, rapist, or thief.

1nce againz....Diss Iz whyz youz a 3 Dan quitta!!!!!

[Neil Gendzwill]

"Improving ourselves?" That concept must be another silly spiritualistic nonsense associated with Kendo. Do we "improve ourselves" with rugby? Basketball? Tennis?
Yes. You improve yourself with any activity you take seriously. Kendo is not the only road.

[Yowai]

For starters, define "improving oneself" explicitly.

[Gen'ei]

Alright Kendo can be used in a good way and in bad way's the art of kendo is nothing but the essence of bloodshed. The style of swordmanship options is no matter how great the style is the true option is of it it will alway's remain a killing art no matter what.

[mystic_kendoka]

kendo i think is the least violent of all martial arts... has probably the smallest injury rate, and its supposed to make you a better person...

my parents are korean, so they're familiar with kendo, and they let me do kendo (dint let me do any other martial arts, apart from taekwondo, but tht was whn i was small) saying that kendo isnt violent or dangerous and that it builds a better character...

also, a couple of my friends say that i've stopped bullying them since i started kendo :P all depends on what kind of person you are i suppose...

[Rawoo]

My personal opinion for those who think Kendo isnt violent, "guys u probably doing something wrong"

Yowai stop being abusive, if u r really experienced like u said u were, then by now u should have realized how kendo can "improving oneself"!
I liked something I saw in this forum, it was something about using ur heart.
But I still could not fully understand the meaning of "train the heart".

[ALI G]

For starters, define "improving oneself" explicitly.
ImprUvingz 1nselfz in kenDoz Iz 2 show upz and notz BeComez a Kwitta...

[souljah]

My personal opinion for those who think Kendo isnt violent, "guys u probably doing something wrong"


IMHO, using 'violent' to describe kendo gives me the impression of wild hacking with the aim of doing damage. From what I've seen, it's much more refined than that (most of the time anyway :D ).

[Rawoo]

Maybe "Violent" is inappropriate, maybe "dynamic"???
well to me Kendo is pretty dynamic, maybe it's just that I am too soft.
:redface:

[Koushinkuma]

Hi Rawoo,

Good question. I guess maybe each person has to define what kendo is for his or herself? As you might see if you reading the contributions my thread further down, there seem to be a lot of different understandings of what kendo is. Is it about sport, beauty, martial art, grace, or impersonating a mobile slaughterhouse? Is it "exotic" or ordinary?

Sorry for the antagonistic replies you got, it seems some people on here would rather react critically to other people's questions rather than contribute anything of their own.

[Yowai]

Reacting critically is not contributing? You will fit in nicely in the US.

[Nanbanjin]

Hi Rawoo,
As you might see if you reading the contributions my thread further down, there seem to be a lot of different understandings of what kendo is. Is it about sport, beauty, martial art, grace, or impersonating a mobile slaughterhouse? Is it "exotic" or ordinary?

Sorry for the antagonistic replies you got, it seems some people on here would rather react critically to other people's questions rather than contribute anything of their own.
Kendo in Japan is mainstream and attracts people from the mainstream.
Kendo in Australia (and other countries outside Japan it seems) is a fringe activity and attracts people from the fringe. This forum goes a fair way to proving this.

[Yowai]

Kendo in Japan is mainstream and attracts people from the mainstream.


Kendo is mainstream? Ha. Kendoists are viewed as backwards patriotic right conservatives. They aren't considered as weird as karatekas though.

[Nanbanjin]

Kendo is mainstream? Ha. Kendoists are viewed as backwards patriotic right conservatives. They aren't considered as weird as karatekas though.
Isn't the mainstream in Japan right-wing conservative? Maybe I've been hanging around too many kendoka.

[Nanbanjin]

Isn't the mainstream in Japan right-wing conservative? Maybe I've been hanging around too many kendoka.
I played karate for seven years from the age of nine in Australia. Karate people are even more weird than kendo people here too. Glad I got it out of my system at an early age, but I wish I had been better at soccer.

[Koushinkuma]

Isn't saying "kendo people are right wing conservatives" or "karate people are ultra-right wing conservatives" a bit on the grossly stereotypical side? I mean, do people in Japan really believe that ALL kendoists are like that? I mean, it makes it sound as if all Americans who like huntin' and dogs and pickups and having Confederate flags in the bag of their trucks are all members of the KKK...hmmm bad example. Anyway, I believe I heard somewhere that 8 million Japanese do kendo...so that's what, one out of 14 or so Japanese? Are you saying that all these people are a bunch of ultraconservative rennaissance-faire rejects? (Correct me if my number is wrong).
Surely there must be some middle of the road and dare I say even liberal thinking types as well. Like Yowai, for example. :smiley:

[Yowai]

You need to substract the number of kids that are forced to play Kendo by their parents or because of the school curriculum. Then, substract the number of inactive Kendoists. (I am presuming that the 8 million figure came from counting memberships)

I won't offer any estimates.

[Koushinkuma]

I have no idea how Japanese gym classes work. But if they work like ones in the US, where you rotate through a great number of sports in a year, this would possibly make it a very ephemeral pursuit, like a few weeks...but if the duration of each sport is longer then maybe you could count that as "doing kendo." But I definitely don't call the 2 weeks of wrasslin' that we had each year in H.S. as "playin' wrasslin'."

[Charlie]

What Neil said. "Do we 'improve ourselves' with rugby? Basketball? Tennis?" Yes, of course we do, if for no other reason that we improve our bodies and that this has a biological effect on our emotions and mind, not to mention the psychology of sport that encourages us to excel and carries over into our everday lives.

We Christians have a couple of ol' sayings that respond exactly to this question. One is, "God isn't through with me yet." That means you are still on the path to transforming yourself into a better person. Maybe the things about you that are negative today will not be there a year from now. You can attribute this to an interaction between yourself and God, as religious people do, or you could simply say that anyone who spends every day meditating on being a better person is going to show some improvement. Regardless, kendo is like this, too, as is rugby, basketball, tennis, etc.

The other saying that comes to my mind is, "If you don't like me now, you should have seen me before I got saved!" This is usually said in response to someone who is passing judgment on you and references exactly the process above. In other words, "You may think I'm a jagoff, but I'm still working on me." Kendo is like this, too. It's full of jagoffs. But maybe they'd be even worse jagoffs if they weren't involved in kendo. And kendo isn't through with them yet.

I'll add one more thing if I may: a lot of people complain that they have never been shown the spiritual, philosophical or psychological side of the art by their teachers and that, therefore, it must not be there. But it's been my experience that kendo tries to impart these lessons not by pontificating as I am here but by suggestion and example. The prevailing mindset seems to be that it's more important for the student to discover these things on his/her own, interpret them on his/her own, and make them his/her own than to have a master dictate them.

[Rawoo]

Thanks Koushinkuma for ur appreciation lol

Charlie I totally agree with u, Kendo is like a journey, u have to do the travelling and discovering.

Yowai said that some kids are being forced to study Kendo, those kids might do good kendo but for a wrong reason.
Afterall they are just kids, BUT as they get older if they keep on doing Kendo for a wrong reason, that means obviously they didnt travel too far in this journel.
what I am trying to say is merely improving skills doesnt make u a great kendo player, in fact I think without spiritual improvement u will not get too far in improving kendo skills.

[twotoedgiraffe]

Ain't violent unless you're up with some beginner guy who gets hot and bothered feeling all threatened and wants to split your men and your head in half. I've had a beginner who trained in judo trip and throw me across the floor. He felt threatened when fighting for the center. Anyway, I've always looked on kendo as a form of a physical chessgame as far as the mental part goes. Make your move buddy......

[Rawoo]

What is wrong with that kind of beginners?
I think they are better than those whose voice u can barely hear and for a men strike they just lightly tap on it.
I appreciate beginners who trys hard, I was one of them as well when I started Kendo
:wink:

[Shiro]

What is wrong with that kind of beginners?
I think they are better than those whose voice u can barely hear and for a men strike they just lightly tap on it.
I appreciate beginners who trys hard, I was one of them as well when I started Kendo
:wink:

I agree. At least they're showing enthousiasm :).

I correct them when they hit way too hard, though.

[twotoedgiraffe]

I don't mind the beginners, but rather just find it amusing as I place myself there a few years ago. I was told repeatedly that I really didn't have to really smash down with the right arm with all my strength trying to break the shinai, the men, and that I'd reach and split the forehead open like a watermelon. Now I think about it, I threw a fellow beginner who was probably no more than 50 kg across the floor from ramming her and tripping her, throwing my arms up and knocking her from under her chin when fighting for center. I constantly missed my do strikes and kept bruising one particular guy's hip while poking his arm trying to tsuki when I shouldn't have been. I was loud, but the kiai usually followed after my strike. :smiley:

[Rawoo]

lol I remember when I was a beginner I wasnt particularly a hard hitting guy but I tried to do my best every training session. My Kiai was bad, my behavior in dojo wasnt particularly good lol, but my kendo wasnt bad, I have been told by my sensei that I had a good men strike which made me very happy lol. :smiley:

[KamiKiller5000]

Hey Guys, this is my first post, but this thread is so awesome I just had to add a bit.

Kendo, like just about anything else in life, is what you make of it. It seems to me that you get out of it what you put into it. Althought I've only been doing Kendo for a short while, I've found that physically, spiritually, and yes, even emotionally I've grown throught Kendo the most when I give 100% effort in all areas of my Kendo training.

In Kendo, and I believe other Budo arts, the idea of Celebrating your opponent as a means to display your own weaknesses is my favorite lesson so far. I come from a sports background rooted in Western ideas of sportsmanship, victory, and loss, where at the end of a water polo match your throw your coach into the pool when you've won, or at the end of a wrestling match you throw your hands into the air when you've achieved victory. Kendo teaches a stillness in one's mind and a reflective, almost appreciative perspective of training and competition, whereby introspective analysis opens the doors of self improvment through a quiet, almost peaceful process.

So I guess, what I'm saying is that for me, Kendo totally makes you a "better" person and allows for personal growth that is potentially unlimited. Physical, mental, spiritual, and emotional progress on a personal level is totally possible through Kendo, as long as you are willing to give in order to get...

[Rawoo]

KamiKiller I realize now that it's too early for us to consider such an issue, right now what we have to do is train hard, face opponent wholeheartedly.

[Ishii]

"Improving ourselves?" That concept must be another silly spiritualistic nonsense associated with Kendo. Do we "improve ourselves" with rugby? Basketball? Tennis? We improve our physical aspect but that improvement does not connote a "better person." A kendo master can still be a murderer, rapist, or thief.
Silly spiritualistic nonsense? If you can't feel something that doesn't mean it is not there. Comparing Kendo and rubgy is useless. If you only swing with your shinai this is not Kendo, sorry, this is just swinging.

[heri0n]

The Concept of Kendo


The concept of Kendo is to discipline the human character through the application of the principles of the Katana (sword).

The Purpose of Practicing Kendo
The purpose of practicing Kendo is:

To mold the mind and body,

To cultivate a vigorous spirit,

And through correct and rigid training,

To strive for improvement in the art of Kendo,

To hold in esteem human courtesy and honor,

To associate with others with sincerity,

And to forever pursue the cultivation of oneself.

This will make one be able:

To love his/her country and society,

To contribute to the development of culture

And to promote peace and prosperity among all peoples.

(The Concept of Kendo was established by All Japan Kendo Federation in 1975.)

http://kendo.or.jp/english-page/english-page2/concept-of-Kendo.htm

[Swissv2]

Great post heri0n.


My thoughts: Do you believe you are improving yourself as a human being?


Though Kendo may be rooted in sword tradition, it is now a sport of points, not bloodshed. You do not learn the art of fighting or violent nature of war (this theme will continue in many different subtle forms in my reply) by learning kendo; you learn the rigors of body movement, reaction, and psychology with the goal to score a point.


When you practice Kendo, if you are an inherently violent minded person this sport is the perfect hobby for you. If you are an inherently meek and passive minded person this sport is also a perfect hobby for you. This is because those who wish to learn how to beat someone up will be learning the wrong thing (learning kendo does not show you how to fight correctly), and those who are meek and passive learn to be strong minded.


All diligent practitioners of Kendo will find one thing in common. It is like a love-hate relationship where there are times you can't live with it, and can't live without it. At times it is hard, and at times it is fun. You will dread the repetitive practices, the aches and sores incurred by normal routine, and maybe the person that has a tendency to deliver a huge “MEN” hit that you find yourself having to pair up with.


But there is an underlying advantage that emerges from Kendo. It is camaraderie with your fellow practitioners in the dojo. It is the constant improvement of your Kendo skill slowly year by year and the trials and tribulations that you encounter with the help of your sensei and your friends. It is the new people you meet, and the high level Kendoists who do seminars that inspire you. It is something to do to keep your mind and body active long after you retire.


Even if you die before you achieve your goals, know that Kendo, as well as any other hobby, has every right to become a passion and life long endeavor. Your skill only has to go but up, as every Kendoist knows, therefore is a constant learning process. But true to life, you always have something to learn, but is very apparent in Kendo.


So to answer your question,


is Kendo really making us better people? Improving our mind and body? In your heard you have to be willing to improve;however that happens for each individual is different but that is the way things are in life. But if you can change at least one person’s outlook on life for the positive through Kendo, you will have made a difference.

[Swissv2]

*edit* due to the 5 minute editing rule I cannot make a change.

In your heard you have to be willing to improve should be
"in your heart, you have to be willing to improve"

[Washington]

Had to quit smoking to keep up with my class... so I'm thinking definitely improving something :)