Could yesterdays Samurai stand up to today's Kendoka?

[Compact Diss]

???
Who would be victorious?

[Shiro]

I say the samurai

[Shizuka na Tou]

Second that Shiro.

[Jearom]

The samurai would win if they used real swords in a real fight with no rules.
The Kendoka would probably win in a Shiai with Shinai because of the rules.
Light and fast taps or hits, for example Debana Kote, would mean nothing to the Samurai.
Only a hard killing blow would count in his mind.

[Shizuka na Tou]

The samurai would win if they used real swords in a real fight with no rules.
The Kendoka would probably win in a Shiai with Shinai because of the rules.
Light and fast taps or hits, for example Debana Kote, would mean nothing to the Samurai.
Only a hard killing blow would count in his mind.Disagree for several reasons
A samurai will train more, and will train with the thought in the back of their mind that someone dies at the end of this, whereas 90% of us train far less, and the lack of threat make us train in a different state of mind. (IMHO, anyway)
Also, duels did not always end in death blows. Musashi left several of his opponents alive afterwards.
However, as to your notion about Debana Kote, I'm not an expert, but I'm fairly sure that if you slice into my arm, I will probably drop my sword from the pain.
So I'd say even in a Shinai match, a good Samurai from way back could beat the Kendoka, assuming he knows the rules.
Of course, I suppose it also depends heavly on your participants (I'd say a Hachidan could hold his own pretty well).

[Compact Diss]

I thought with the rules a Samurai may have a hard time unless trained thoroughly on them.

[mystic_kendoka]

i'd say, samurai armed with twin metal chopsticks, vs any of us kendokas with bokuto. samurai would win, no doubt... to us kendo is a game, to them the way of the sword was their life..

[Mr.Tvola]

i'd say, samurai armed with twin metal chopsticks, vs any of us kendokas with bokuto. samurai would win, no doubt... to us kendo is a game, to them the way of the sword was their life..

I don't feel Kendo is a game.

Anyway I think good modern Kendo-ka can be a match for a old style samurai (think of your favorite tough Japanese sensei). I think it is more about skill of the oponents.

[Jearom]

Disagree for several reasons
A samurai will train more, and will train with the thought in the back of their mind that someone dies at the end of this, whereas 90% of us train far less, and the lack of threat make us train in a different state of mind. (IMHO, anyway)
Also, duels did not always end in death blows. Musashi left several of his opponents alive afterwards.
However, as to your notion about Debana Kote, I'm not an expert, but I'm fairly sure that if you slice into my arm, I will probably drop my sword from the pain.
So I'd say even in a Shinai match, a good Samurai from way back could beat the Kendoka, assuming he knows the rules.
Of course, I suppose it also depends heavly on your participants (I'd say a Hachidan could hold his own pretty well).

Again, in Shiai it don`t matter if your opponent hits you in the arm or on the legs or in the chest, as long as you hit first in the correct places and get the flags from the referees.
My guess would be that, in a real fight, a Samurai with a drop of self preservation would take steps to protect all of him.
Even if he kills his enemy it wouldn`t do to bleed to death from minor cuts.
That thinking will not benefit him in a Shiai.
So if you go back in time, fetch a good Samurai, give him Bogu and a Shinai, read him the rules and pit him against Eiga, I think Eiga will win.
As for the amount of training, your right about me, I only train three times a week.
But, as a Samurai made his living with his sword I think it`s only fair to compare him to those who do the same today, Kendo instructors in Japans police force.
And they train a lot!

[Shizuka na Tou]

Again, in Shiai it don`t matter if your opponent hits you in the arm or on the legs or in the chest, as long as you hit first in the correct places and get the flags from the referees.
My guess would be that, in a real fight, a Samurai with a drop of self preservation would take steps to protect all of him.
Even if he kills his enemy it wouldn`t do to bleed to death from minor cuts.
That thinking will not benefit him in a Shiai.
So if you go back in time, fetch a good Samurai, give him Bogu and a Shinai, read him the rules and pit him against Eiga, I think Eiga will win.
As for the amount of training, your right about me, I only train three times a week.
But, as a Samurai made his living with his sword I think it`s only fair to compare him to those who do the same today, Kendo instructors in Japans police force.
And they train a lot!I'm kinda new to the kendo scene. Who's Eiga?
I'm not saying its an absolute hard and fast rule, but I still think "Joe Samurai" can beat "Joe Kendoka." Again, its just my humble opinion, but I feel that the mindset and training makes them better prepared for all situations, including a Shiai.

[Shiro]

Naoki Eiga is was the captain of the japanese team during the 12th world cup in 2003. He's an ex world champion too. I've seen him fight two weeks ago, amazing...... :)

[Mr.Tvola]

Naoki Eiga is was the captain of the japanese team during the 12th world cup in 2003. He's an ex world champion too. I've seen him fight two weeks ago, amazing...... :)

I had a ji-geiko with him once :-)

[mystic_kendoka]

actually depends from which time period the kendoka and samurai came from, if the samurai came from a time when kendo was used as a training method, he would be a kendoka with more experience in kendo than an ordinary kendoka.

if the samurai had never heard of kendo, and both competitors were allowed to pick whatever weapon they wanted, the samurai would win, if the samurai and kendoka both picked katanas, the samurai would win, if the samurai picked a katana and the kendoka a shinai/bokuto, the samurai would win..

another advantage the samurai has is that he will be using real techniques, not 'point' techniques like kendo, a kendoka would be constantly be attacking the head/neck/wrist/body. A samurai would be attacking neck/fingers/ankle/genitals/main arteries... so if it was a death match, the samurai would win by either a) decapitating the kendoka or b) bleeding/breaking bones to death... if it was a shiai, the samurai would be at a disadvantage (im not sure, do you lose points/get penalties for hitting non-target areas?) if not, then the samurai has an advantage, disabling the kendoka with crushing blows... if he loses points for attacking non-target areas, he might be disqualified before the kendoka even moves his shinai out of kamae...

this is what i think, and i think it proves that the samurai has an advantage... :)

[Shiro]

I had a ji-geiko with him once :-)

And he let you live? ;)

I don't want to criticize your kendo, but I don't think you hit him, right? :)

[Mr.Tvola]

And he let you live? ;)

I don't want to criticize your kendo, but I don't think you hit him, right? :)

After I had jigeiko with him, few months later he lost his title of Japanese Champion :-) He was so beaten ....

OK, seriously, he was (still is) incredibly fast, I couldn't see his moves (and yet knew he is working in about 30-50% speed ;-)) I hit him, but only because my kendo was too slow to him for being recognized as attack, so he didn't defend :)

[mystic_kendoka]

actually i think the judges decided on your first question, regardless of what Eiga had in mind... :P

PS Shiro, do you know when the next kendo seminar is going to be? i dont see any in my clubs calendar..:(

[mystic_kendoka]

my kendo was too slow to him for being recognized as attack, so he didn't defend :)

looooooooooooool sorta like neo not realizing a bullet is coming to him coz its slow..

[Shiro]

PS Shiro, do you know when the next kendo seminar is going to be? i dont see any in my clubs calendar..:(

I dunno :/ der zijn hier en daar wel stages, maar ni zo groot als de Nakakura Cup

[Will]

I think a lot of you guys are forgetting the fact that people can adapt to given conditions. So yeah, the Samurai trained to kill, but a Kendoka can change and adapt to kill as well. I think it's very much possible for a kendoka to defeat yesterday's samurai.