Kenjutsu vs. Kendo

[Corious]

Hey, im am really interrested in martial art, and right now i am working on a school project about kendo, but i am afraid that i am mixing it toghter with kenjutsu some time.
So if anyone could explain the different between the to arts is would really be glad.

[dillon]

This article (http://www.kendo-sask.com/swordfaq.htm) is a good start.

[Bokushingu]

wow great article & written by Neil-Sensei. until now i didn't know there was a Iaijutsu.

[ScottUK]

So if anyone could explain the different between the to arts is would really be glad.Headbutts and gouging. Everything else is identical. ;)

[b8amack]

This article (http://www.kendo-sask.com/swordfaq.htm) is a good start.

Link doesn't work for me. Maybe the site has an ip filter against Korean ip's? The old SK/SK rivalry?

[Neil Gendzwill]

The site shouldn't filter against anything. If it doesn't work for you, google "Japanese Sword Arts FAQ", it's archived in lots of places. Try to find the 2001 version, there are older flavours still kicking around various sites.

To the OP: I think you'll find a lot of people here won't want to do your homework for you. Google is your friend or even just the search button on this site, but I will point you to one more site that can help you: www.koryu.com

[Corious]

The site shouldn't filter against anything. If it doesn't work for you, google "Japanese Sword Arts FAQ", it's archived in lots of places. Try to find the 2001 version, there are older flavours still kicking around various sites.

To the OP: I think you'll find a lot of people here won't want to do your homework for you. Google is your friend or even just the search button on this site, but I will point you to one more site that can help you: www.koryu.com


I don't want you to do my homework.. i jsut want to know what the major different :)... and also i cannot filled 6 pages with thoes few different there might be ^^

[Neil Gendzwill]

You asked us to explain to you some stuff that is very easily searchable on the net. We even pointed you to some links. And you're still asking. That's called wanting us to do your homework for you.

[jjcruiser]

I don't want you to do my homework.. i jsut want to know what the major different :)... and also i cannot filled 6 pages with thoes few different there might be ^^

The fact there are books written on a subject should offer a hint that "filling 6 pages" shouldn't be too difficult. In fairness, I used to be like that too. Honestly, I can't figure out how how I graduated. So I'll tell you what it took me 10 years to figure out:

Outline the paper. Write a topic sentence for each paragraph. Fill in the paragraphs. Then list examples demonstrating the key points. Expand on them. Then write an introduction and conclusion (do not write those first). If you don't get six pages out of that, come back and ask more questions.

Btw, I presume you aren't a native English speaker so my hat's off to you, especially if you have to write the paper in English. To help your English, it's: "to know what the major differences are" and "I cannot fill six pages with those few differences that might exist."

Good luck with your paper.

[tango]

This article (http://www.kendo-sask.com/swordfaq.htm) is a good start.

haven't seen that before.... very interesting...
(nice work, neil)

[b8amack]

The site shouldn't filter against anything. If it doesn't work for you, google "Japanese Sword Arts FAQ", it's archived in lots of places. Try to find the 2001 version, there are older flavours still kicking around various sites.

Hmm. Still times out, even when I click that link in your sig.

But this link (http://www.kjartan.org/swordfaq/) to your article works fine, in case anyone else is having the same problem I had.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Yeah, that's the older version. Kjartan prettied it up but never updated. I don't suppose I should complain as I haven't touched that piece in 8 years now.

[Corious]

The fact there are books written on a subject should offer a hint that "filling 6 pages" shouldn't be too difficult. In fairness, I used to be like that too. Honestly, I can't figure out how how I graduated. So I'll tell you what it took me 10 years to figure out:

Outline the paper. Write a topic sentence for each paragraph. Fill in the paragraphs. Then list examples demonstrating the key points. Expand on them. Then write an introduction and conclusion (do not write those first). If you don't get six pages out of that, come back and ask more questions.

Btw, I presume you aren't a native English speaker so my hat's off to you, especially if you have to write the paper in English. To help your English, it's: "to know what the major differences are" and "I cannot fill six pages with those few differences that might exist."

Good luck with your paper.


No i am not a nativ english speaker, i am a dane.

And yes i know there is alot on the internet about the two arts, but it just seems to me that they are the same, so i just wanted to try to ask someone who is in to it.
"if you don't ask, you will never learn" :)

[ScottUK]

You close to a club?

http://www.ekf-eu.com/pages/Dojos_per_Country_City.asp?Country=45&Countryname=Denmark

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?hl=en&gl=uk&ptab=2&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=107634194699919271599.00045627cb40e5f74cc6d

[JSchmidt]

Det nemmeste er jo nok at besoege en af kendo klubberne in Danmark.
Der er et par stykker i KBH, en i Odense og en i Aarhus.
Du kan finde flere detaljer her: www.kendo.dk

[Corious]

Det nemmeste er jo nok at besoege en af kendo klubberne in Danmark.
Der er et par stykker i KBH, en i Odense og en i Aarhus.
Du kan finde flere detaljer her: www.kendo.dk

Ja, det ville det jo nok, men bor i Vestjylland, i en lille by der hedder No, (tro det eller ej). Så har ca. 11 til 2 timer til Aarhus. og ud fra dette regnede jeg med at det var nemmere og billiger at se på et forum.

[JSchmidt]

(Switching back to English so the rest can join in).

Ok, but then I recommend making your questions more specific. What difference are you unclear on/want clarification?

[ScottUK]

How about starting a Q&A Session?

I'll start you off:

Q: What's the difference between kendo and kenjutsu, equipment-wise?

A: In general kendo keiko, practitioners wear bogu (armour) and are armed with shinai (split bamboo swords). When practicing kata, the majority of the bogu is removed and the shinai is exchanged for a bokuto (a wooden sword, also called a bokken). In kenjutsu, there is generally no armour (although some schools such as the Itto-ryu (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_lo6nWsiyWok/SbJqRRKt4vI/AAAAAAAAAcg/YU2aazw9go8/s400/taikai4.jpg) and Maniwa Nen-ryu (http://www.pictureparity.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=28261&g2_serialNumber=2) utilise certain elements of protective equipment), and the weapon is usually a bokuto (although once again, this can vary between schools).

Righto, your go... ;)

[Abramo]

What's wrong in saying "kenjutsu" is a general term roughly meaning "fencing", and Kendo (in the way it's now used) is a specific term meaning a particular martial art?

Kenjutsu has many schools or styles, and they differ a lot (like "car racing".)

Kendo (at least what is considered "mainstream" Kendo) is what's layed out by the All Japan Kendo Federation. It's a specific kind of "fencing" (like "Formula 1") though we don't usually say it's a style of kenjutsu.

There are lots of videos and photographs and texts to compare them. Here's where you have to do the research and find out.

Now I hope the above isn't, like, false or something.

[ScottUK]

Actually I have heard a number of senior budoka refer to the practice of kenjutsu as 'kendo' - which is why I often use the term 'shinai kendo' to avoid confusion.

[still learning]

Actually I have heard a number of senior budoka refer to the practice of kenjutsu as 'kendo' - which is why I often use the term 'shinai kendo' to avoid confusion.

Well said; if 'Kendo' means the 'way of the sword' then surley kenjutsu has to be within that frame.........??

'Shinai Kendo' makes a fine distinction.

[Josh Reyer]

Well said; if 'Kendo' means the 'way of the sword' then surley kenjutsu has to be within that frame.........??

'Shinai Kendo' makes a fine distinction.The kendo guys in the Yagyu-kai tend to say "men no kendo" to refer to "gendai kendo", since we use fukuro-shinai in Yagyu Shinkage-ryu. :happy:

[Kent Enfield]

The kendo guys in the Yagyu-kai tend to say "men no kendo" to refer to "gendai kendo", since we use fukuro-shinai in Yagyu Shinkage-ryu. :happy:Does that make Shinkage Ryu "boys no kendo"? (Yeah, I know . . . )

[Josh Reyer]

Does that make Shinkage Ryu "boys no kendo"? (Yeah, I know . . . )Nah. "Gods no kendo". :D

[Angel_Of_Music]

Well said; if 'Kendo' means the 'way of the sword' then surley kenjutsu has to be within that frame.........??

'Shinai Kendo' makes a fine distinction.

There may be another distinction: the word 術 (jutsu, as in Kenjutsu) is somewhat different from 道 (dō), in that jutsu means art, form, or technique, whereas dō refers to "a way", a typically Asian referrence to teachings (usually of a religious nature, or in the arts like martial arts or calligraphy).

[jmarsten]

Sorry if someone already pointed this out but the real difference between Kendo and Kenjutsu is Millions of practicioners vs. Hundreds.

[still learning]

There may be another distinction: the word 術 (jutsu, as in Kenjutsu) is somewhat different from 道 (dō), in that jutsu means art, form, or technique, whereas dō refers to "a way", a typically Asian referrence to teachings (usually of a religious nature, or in the arts like martial arts or calligraphy).

Succinctly put;
Thank you.........

[ScottUK]

There may be another distinction: the word 術 (jutsu, as in Kenjutsu) is somewhat different from 道 (dō), in that jutsu means art, form, or technique, whereas dō refers to "a way", a typically Asian referrence to teachings (usually of a religious nature, or in the arts like martial arts or calligraphy).I think this distinction is rarely that easy. Go look at genbudo iai and koryu iai. Look at an extremely competent practitioner of seiteigata and then at someone equally skilled in a koryu iai art. Will you see a difference? I think not. They will both exude all the properties that we are aspiring to absord into our own practice. Surely the do art values correct technique over fighting efficacy, and the jutsu art champions killing technique over everything else? Naah, I don't think that for a second - but many do. Still, that's just an opinion and we all know the monetary value of such things.

Lets get back to kendo v kenjutsu.

Is there a different mindset for the two arts? Surely yes? Perhaps. However, black and white once again doesn't apply - and any budoka worth his/her salt will realise this. I used to try and pigeonhole stuff into neat little boxes for easy consumption, but the more I learn, the more I realise that this just does not compute. Even a ferocious 'jutsu' art such as the kenjutsu ryuha I practice actually studies to better the self and does not consider the art is just for defeating your opponent.

Not really the mindset that we all consider should fit with a jutsu art, eh?

...and I bet we ain't the only group that thinks this way, either.

[Josh Reyer]

Jutsu - proprietary.

Do - Open source.

[Maro]

Jutsu - proprietary.

Do - Open source.


Lol

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2008/8/3/633533327323277737-PenguinNinja-t2.jpg

[Shinsengumi77]

Without getting into specifics and differences in approach, couldn't we say that kendo is almost like a martial sport (I know that the "s" word might make some of us cringe...) similar to western fencing in that there are rules pertaining to competition and such, while Kenjutsu refers to a martial art in which one learns actual swordsmanship (killing techniques, or ways to properly handle a shinken).

Or simply, if one learns kendo, they cannot really use a sword, but if one learns Kenjutsu they can.

[ScottUK]

Does kendo kata not teach the basics of kenjutsu?

[still learning]

Does kendo kata not teach the basics of kenjutsu?


As noted in other threads [on the Kendo pages] many dojo/leaders place little value in performing the kata to any kind of 'meaningful' standard.

It seems that many dojo are only really concerned with shiai kendo - which does not include knowledge of, or capability in, kendo-no-kata.

Further comments [on said thread] seem to suggest [nay, state] that many kendo-ka only practise the required kata that is pertinent to their next grading in the weeks approaching said grading.

Therefore - whilst kendo-no-kata does teach the basics there are many people who will never really 'mean' what they are doing........ thus they will never have a firm grasp of the basics of kenjutsu [or iaido, for that matter].

Sad, really.

[Angel_Of_Music]

I think this distinction is rarely that easy. Go look at genbudo iai and koryu iai. Look at an extremely competent practitioner of seiteigata and then at someone equally skilled in a koryu iai art. Will you see a difference? I think not. They will both exude all the properties that we are aspiring to absord into our own practice. Surely the do art values correct technique over fighting efficacy, and the jutsu art champions killing technique over everything else? Naah, I don't think that for a second - but many do. Still, that's just an opinion and we all know the monetary value of such things.

Lets get back to kendo v kenjutsu.

Is there a different mindset for the two arts? Surely yes? Perhaps. However, black and white once again doesn't apply - and any budoka worth his/her salt will realise this. I used to try and pigeonhole stuff into neat little boxes for easy consumption, but the more I learn, the more I realise that this just does not compute. Even a ferocious 'jutsu' art such as the kenjutsu ryuha I practice actually studies to better the self and does not consider the art is just for defeating your opponent.

Not really the mindset that we all consider should fit with a jutsu art, eh?

...and I bet we ain't the only group that thinks this way, either.

Well, then again (especially in the modern world, post feudal states era) the definitions between dō and jutsu have been blurred and mixed, now that there is one thing that we definitely do not practice martial arts for: battle.

That's also why I too have found categorising martial arts a little confusing too!