Blue gi, black hakama; White gi, red hakama

[Tachi-kaze]

Hello! I have a rather pretentious question to start off my existence at Kendo World here. I've studied kendo for 6 years and used the same gi (an old second-hand blue one) and found that I've gotten quite accustomed to wearing it with a black hakama. I like how it subtly stands out from the sea of navy, and I like the way it looks because I find it is extremely hard to match navys between the gi and hakama (I'm an art student so this naturally drives me crazy). However, I am a female kendoka and I've seen at tournaments many women wear white gi with red hakama. Red happens to be my favorite color; but white annoys me because it gets dirty so fast. I also feel that if I want to draw that much attention to myself with red hakama that I must be VERY good at kendo first; so I think I will wait for that.

So, first of all, I'm wondering what people personally think of the color choices (white, red, blue, navy, black) of gi and hakama. Second of all, I'm having a hard time finding a good blue gi to order online. E-bogu only sells navy--not even black ones. Maybe I could get navy and bleach it a little to lighten it?

Also, most importantly, is there any significance behind these color choices that I should know about, such as rank? Thanks a bunch everyone! Glad to be here! :rambo:

[Neil Gendzwill]

I've never heard of anyone from traditional JSA wearing red hakama.

[Occidio]

Aren't red hakama's worn with white gi's used by female priests in Shinto temples in Japan? I have never seen it worn in Kendo.

[Kapplow]

http://www.budokaikan.com/index.html

[Fonsz]

The only time that I saw red hakama was at a shrine in Kyoto. Inari Fushimi I think it was. The one with million gates.
The red hakama was worn by for want of a better word female priests or assistents to the priest.
Other than that hakama and keikogi are just working clothes. Old folks wear jackets and pants that are the same kind of blue as keikogi. They wear it around the house and while working in the garden.
See here:
http://www.e-bogu.com/photos/categories/292-T.jpg

So red hakama in a regular dojo is a rare sight and I guess frowned upon by the hardcore Sensei. I never saw one and I've been around some places in the world.

[JHusch]

http://www.budokaikan.com/index.html

http://www.budokaikan.com/kendo_video.html

Just wow.......

[nikozamo]

red hakama... weird... very weird... may i ask you if you have a photo or video to show?

[nikozamo]

http://www.budokaikan.com/kendo_video.html

Just wow.......

woooow... but still not appearing red hakamas in the video :D

[Fonsz]

http://www.budokaikan.com/index.html
I just browsed the site and I am so sorry for making sense. Please disregard my last post and wear any color hakama that you like. There are even Stars and Stripes hakama. How cool is that eh?
Carry on with the good work in the sea of navy blue with red undercurrents.:D:bandit::o

[Occidio]

http://www.budokaikan.com/dojohistory.htm

Kendo Hachi Dan?

[JHusch]

http://www.budokaikan.com/dojohistory.htm

Kendo Hachi Dan?

Yeah I almost had pepsi come out my nose when I read that. :D

[Tachi-kaze]

Why so many posts about Budo Kai Kan? Is it bad? I just started with them this past year since I recently moved to NYC for college. I've only been to a few classes. Yes, the instructor is Kendo Hachi Dan. He is the founder of the school and it is supposedly the oldest kendo school in New York City.

No, I have never seen women wear red hakama in class--I know you can buy them and they're available in the same places you can buy white, black, and navy ones. I thought I saw some at a tournament in Cleveland - maybe I'm remembering wrong and remember a red doh. I at least know that most women wore white gi. I just remember I got beaten to death at the end by a woman in white and red!

Anyway, anyone have any recommendation for a good blue gi somewhere?

[Neil Gendzwill]

Why so many posts about Budo Kai Kan? Is it bad? I just started with them this past year since I recently moved to NYC for college. I've only been to a few classes. Yes, the instructor is Kendo Hachi Dan. He is the founder of the school and it is supposedly the oldest kendo school in New York City.You've been sold a bill of goods. He is not affiliated with the official kendo federation in the US (the All-US Kendo Federation). The clips on the website don't look like the kendo that we are all familiar with. I don't know who awarded him hachi dan, but it will not be recognized in any country doing traditional (International Kendo Federation) kendo.

Here (http://www.auskf.info/dojo/ny.htm) is the official dojo list for NY state. Right in NYC you can check out Ken Zen Institute (http://www.kenzendojo.org/) under Ebihara-sensei or Shidogakuin (http://shidogakuin.com/) under Kato-sensei. There are others but those are the two that are commonly mentioned/recommended. I'm sure it would be no problem to contact either of them and arrange to observe a class, then you can judge for yourself.

[Tachi-kaze]

You've been sold a bill of goods. He is not affiliated with the official kendo federation in the US (the All-US Kendo Federation). The clips on the website don't look like the kendo that we are all familiar with. I don't know who awarded him hachi dan, but it will not be recognized in any country doing traditional (International Kendo Federation) kendo.

Here (http://www.auskf.info/dojo/ny.htm) is the official dojo list for NY state. Right in NYC you can check out Ken Zen Institute (http://www.kenzendojo.org/) under Ebihara-sensei or Shidogakuin (http://shidogakuin.com/) under Kato-sensei. There are others but those are the two that are commonly mentioned/recommended. I'm sure it would be no problem to contact either of them and arrange to observe a class, then you can judge for yourself.


Hmm, thanks for this - I was a bit skeptical when I visited, but the dojo looked legitimately set up/decorated. That video was definitely strange I thought. Luckily I didn't pay anything yet. There are many attendees and they seem very dedicated. The instructor claims to have taught Kataoka-sensei of the New York Kendo Club. I wanted to go to that one but it was too far uptown - I live on the lower east side. Though it may be worth it in the end. I thought the teaching was a bit different too; different than what I'd been taught at least for the past 5 years at my small-town Dojo in Ohio. Kiraly-sensei studied with Dr. Tetsuya Higuchi until Higuchi-sensei went back to Japan, so he has been unable to level up past 1st Dan even though he's been teaching for years and years.

[futabachan]

I thought I saw some at a tournament in Cleveland - maybe I'm remembering wrong and remember a red doh.

Do you mean this year? There was a university-age woman there in really pretty white bogu with a red do-dai, but she wore white uwagi and hakama. I think there was a second woman in white bogu, also with a red do-dai, and also in white/white underneath. I've never seen anyone dress up like a miko to do kendo.


Anyway, anyone have any recommendation for a good blue gi somewhere?

Yes: wear a traditional indigo one until it fades.

[Toecutter]

Hmm, thanks for this - I was a bit skeptical when I visited, but the dojo looked legitimately set up/decorated. That video was definitely strange I thought.
You're lucky enough to live in NY and have access to some great teachers, you can't go wrong with anyone on the list that Neil posted, there are some more if you're interested just do a search auskf and follow the links.

[Neil Gendzwill]

The instructor claims to have taught Kataoka-sensei of the New York Kendo Club. He claims a lot of things on that website. If you search for his name on e-budo you will see that he is the subject of some controversy. Kataoka-sensei has an excellent reputation, by the way. If I recall correctly, he was born and raised in Japan and so would have learned much of his kendo there. Many of the senior instructors in the US and Canada are immigrants.

[Tachi-kaze]

Thank you all so much for enlightening me right off the batt. I'll certainly look into some AUSKF dojos in the area. I'm surprised I couldn't come up with any of these small ones when I was doing my google searching--mind you I didn't include the AUSKF part. I'm going to especially look into the Ken-Zen one, as it's particularly close to where I'll be living and I'll take a recommendation any day.

Oh, and fubatachan

Yes: wear a traditional indigo one until it fades.

Thank you very much! That must have been what happened to the one I got second-hand. Anyway I like physical signs of labors (the old white belt to black through training and dirtying of it always intrigued me).

All this is as warm a welcome as any here! Thanks so much for the advice and concerns, I'll take it to heart.

[Bruce Mitchell]

Why so many posts about Budo Kai Kan? Is it bad? I just started with them this past year since I recently moved to NYC for college. I've only been to a few classes. Yes, the instructor is Kendo Hachi Dan. He is the founder of the school and it is supposedly the oldest kendo school in New York City.

No, I have never seen women wear red hakama in class--I know you can buy them and they're available in the same places you can buy white, black, and navy ones. I thought I saw some at a tournament in Cleveland - maybe I'm remembering wrong and remember a red doh. I at least know that most women wore white gi. I just remember I got beaten to death at the end by a woman in white and red!

Anyway, anyone have any recommendation for a good blue gi somewhere?

I am going to try to give you a direct, honest answer. Is "Budo Kai Kan" bad? Yes. It falls into the category of what is typically called a McDojo, e.i. it is the fast-food, low value, worse than no-nutrition version of the martial arts. I think that it is interesting looking at the site because Mr. Rico Guy references legitimate teachers and organizations, but fails to mention that he does not belong to them, and even more interestingly, either outranks the top teachers of these groups or holds ranks equal to them. For instance he claims to have 10 Dan in Goju Ryu the same rank as Morio Higaonna, the head of the International Goju Ryu Karate Federation. Out here in the San Francisco Bay Area we have Yoshinari Miyata Sensei, Kendo Hachidan Hanshi (8th degree). He has been practicing Kendo for over 70 years. Yet Mr. Rico Guy, with all of his 30 years of experience outranks Miyata Sensei at 9th Dan! My advice is to put as much distance between yourself and this fraud as possible. Studying martial arts under someone like this is far, far worse than never studying anything at all. He may be the nicest guy in the world, he may well be the toughest guy in the world, but he is not being honest with you nor with himself. If, on the other hand, you like training at his dojo, good on you, enjoy, but please don't come to websites like this and expect to be mollycoddled.

If you are serious than you can find a good kendo dojo in New York here: http://www.auskf.info/dojo/ny.htm

If you want to study Goju Ryu at a school actually affiliated with the IOGKF then contact them here: http://www.iogkf.com/individual.html

As far as red hakama, these are popular on the American Karate circuit, they have no conection to traditional Japanese arts (other than the shrine ceremonies mentioned above).

[Chev-san]

I have only seen Miko (shrine maidens) wear white gi and red hakama

[Neil Gendzwill]

Anyway I like physical signs of labors (the old white belt to black through training and dirtying of it always intrigued me).Yeah, that's a story that was made up. White/black belts were invented by Jigoro Kano for judo and his system has since been copied by many martial arts. Some add some mysticism to it with the "never wash your belt story". It's BS.

Good quality indigo-dyed keikogi and hakama fade very nicely.

[Tachi-kaze]

I am going to try to give you a direct, honest answer. Is "Budo Kai Kan" bad? Yes. It falls into the category of what is typically called a McDojo, e.i. it is the fast-food, low value, worse than no-nutrition version of the martial arts. I think that it is interesting looking at the site because Mr. Rico Guy references legitimate teachers and organizations, but fails to mention that he does not belong to them, and even more interestingly, either outranks the top teachers of these groups or holds ranks equal to them. For instance he claims to have 10 Dan in Goju Ryu the same rank as Morio Higaonna, the head of the International Goju Ryu Karate Federation. Out here in the San Francisco Bay Area we have Yoshinari Miyata Sensei, Kendo Hachidan Hanshi (8th degree). He has been practicing Kendo for over 70 years. Yet Mr. Rico Guy, with all of his 30 years of experience outranks Miyata Sensei at 9th Dan! My advice is to put as much distance between yourself and this fraud as possible. Studying martial arts under someone like this is far, far worse than never studying anything at all. He may be the nicest guy in the world, he may well be the toughest guy in the world, but he is not being honest with you nor with himself. If, on the other hand, you like training at his dojo, good on you, enjoy, but please don't come to websites like this and expect to be mollycoddled.

If you are serious than you can find a good kendo dojo in New York here: http://www.auskf.info/dojo/ny.htm

If you want to study Goju Ryu at a school actually affiliated with the IOGKF then contact them here: http://www.iogkf.com/individual.html

As far as red hakama, these are popular on the American Karate circuit, they have no conection to traditional Japanese arts (other than the shrine ceremonies mentioned above).


Thank you for being so direct - I honestly had no idea there were such things as "McDojos" in the Kendo world. Of course in the field of more common martial arts, yes, but I had no idea about the Kendo ones. I suppose that comes from growing up in a small town (one thing i HATE about small towns and why i got the hell out ASAP). I only discovered Kendo through a demonstration 6 years ago in Old Montreal. Went home and searched for Kendo in my area and was extremely lucky to find it right in my backyard in Ohio, so no questions asked after that. Luckily, Kiraly-sensei WAS affiliated with the AUSKF--though when I joined I had no idea what that meant. I didn't even know kendo existed before that. I didn't ask for their help in finding Dojos out in New York, which was a stupid idea, even though they probably wouldn't have known any except the big one with Kataoka-sensei. They probably could have told me though to make sure whatever dojo I found was AUSKF legit. Dunno what possessed me not to ask.

Anyway I hope you understand how grateful I am for being told of all this--I never would have known otherwise. I'm CERTAINLY going to take that AUSKF list you guys gave me and investigate as many places as I can, and good riddance to bad rubbish to Budo Kai Kan--that's the end of that!

[Justice_wolf]

=] I'm glad you were able to get help Lannie. Though I can't help but say I told you so.

Can't trust a man to be a propper teacher when he says "I don't brag about my skills." and in the same breath "The only reason I don't fight on the street is because If I fight them, I have to kill them."

I don't study Kendo, or any other sword art. But I am a martial artist. And I know a bad dojo when I see one. Within five minutes of talking with the man, I knew I wouldn't be going there. Even if I had the money for it.
I look forward to helping you find a good dojo that will teach you right. Help you focus mind and body propperly, without misguided arogance.

Even though kendo is incredibly important to you, Training with a bad teacher is like using a tooth brush in place of your usual size 0 round on your masterpeice. As much as you love it and want to keep working on it. Its always better to wait until you have the right brush. Accept no substitutes.

-Lots of luck and Love, Wolfy <3

[eon]

Hmm, thanks for this - I was a bit skeptical when I visited, but the dojo looked legitimately set up/decorated. That video was definitely strange I thought. Luckily I didn't pay anything yet. There are many attendees and they seem very dedicated. The instructor claims to have taught Kataoka-sensei of the New York Kendo Club. I wanted to go to that one but it was too far uptown - I live on the lower east side. Though it may be worth it in the end. I thought the teaching was a bit different too; different than what I'd been taught at least for the past 5 years at my small-town Dojo in Ohio. Kiraly-sensei studied with Dr. Tetsuya Higuchi until Higuchi-sensei went back to Japan, so he has been unable to level up past 1st Dan even though he's been teaching for years and years.
Kataoka Sensei has been a great practitioner and a competitive player in all parts of the world. Kataoka sensei began the study of kendo from the age of 15 in Kochi, Japan, a prefecture known for developing strong, talented kendo players. By 1972, his reputation for winning tournaments brought him the honor of being chosen a member of the Kochi team that played in the All Japan Kendo Tournament. The Kochi team placed 2nd in this prestigious event.

Coming to the North American continent in the 1970’s, Sensei also participated in international tournaments in addition to starting NYC Kendo Club. (http://www.nyckendo.com/sensei.html)

So yeah, I suggest you stay far away from this McDojo. NYC Kendo club is an excellent club and very well worth the trip even if its a bit far for you.

http://www.nyckendo.com/

[nodachi]

I will repeat as others have said that there are many AEUSKF affiliated dojos that are so good in NYC that you are very lucky. Pick any of these and you really can't go wrong.

[rainmaker]

I have practiced with Kataoka sensei numerous times and has been trying to learn Jodan Kamae from him. As a matter of fact, he will visit Orlando in July. His Kendo and Iaido are very facinating and there is no way you can compare him with this SOB....

I am a nidan and I think I can beat him...... really...... I mean really.....


The instructor claims to have taught Kataoka-sensei of the New York Kendo Club.

[Tachi-kaze]

Aww man, I feel so stupid for getting involved with that McDojo. I'm so glad you guys told me about that - I'm lucky I didn't get in too deep. I'm absolutely going to look for any of those AUSKF dojos. I think I'll try the Ken-Zen Institute first, but I've heard so many great things about Kataoka-sensei that I may end up going there after all. It's just about fitting in the transportation time with all my homework from college. Seems like, from what you all have said, I'd really be missing out if I didn't go to Kataoka-sensei.

Anyway thanks again for everything, guys - I'll post a thread about the AUSKF dojo I join this coming September when I move back out there for college! (Meanwhile of course I'll talk about other things on this forum)

I'm gonna get one of those indigo gi's too ;)

[tango]

Hmm, thanks for this - I was a bit skeptical when I visited, but the dojo looked legitimately set up/decorated. That video was definitely strange I thought. Luckily I didn't pay anything yet. There are many attendees and they seem very dedicated. The instructor claims to have taught Kataoka-sensei of the New York Kendo Club. I wanted to go to that one but it was too far uptown - I live on the lower east side. Though it may be worth it in the end. I thought the teaching was a bit different too; different than what I'd been taught at least for the past 5 years at my small-town Dojo in Ohio. Kiraly-sensei studied with Dr. Tetsuya Higuchi until Higuchi-sensei went back to Japan, so he has been unable to level up past 1st Dan even though he's been teaching for years and years.

I have seen Kataoka-sensei's kendo.
I have seen this BudoKanKai head instructor's kendo now on that website.
There is no way I would ever believe that that guy taught Kataoka-sensei kendo.

No. Way.

[tango]

Aww man, I feel so stupid for getting involved with that McDojo. I'm so glad you guys told me about that - I'm lucky I didn't get in too deep. I'm absolutely going to look for any of those AUSKF dojos. I think I'll try the Ken-Zen Institute first, but I've heard so many great things about Kataoka-sensei that I may end up going there after all. It's just about fitting in the transportation time with all my homework from college. Seems like, from what you all have said, I'd really be missing out if I didn't go to Kataoka-sensei.

Anyway thanks again for everything, guys - I'll post a thread about the AUSKF dojo I join this coming September when I move back out there for college! (Meanwhile of course I'll talk about other things on this forum)

I'm gonna get one of those indigo gi's too ;)

Both Ebihara-sensei and Kataoka-sensei have very good, reputable schools in NYC. There are a few of their students here on kendo world as well. If you post something in the Dojo forum on this board, maybe one of those guys will catch it and you can hook up with them since they're right on the the scene. Great guys all of them...

[Omnis]

That Kendo is described as "stick-fighting" on his website should be a red flag. Stay away from the fraud.

[b8amack]

That video is awesome. Forget kendo... more like dosey-do.

[futabachan]

On the subject of A) uwagi and B) that video, if you buy any more uwagi beyond that indigo one that you're planning, avoid the shiro musashi type that Guy-sensei's partner is wearing in the video (white with a pattern of black threads). It's reserved for children under 12, and shouldn't be worn by adults.

[Hank]

It's just about fitting in the transportation time with all my homework from college. Seems like, from what you all have said, I'd really be missing out if I didn't go to Kataoka-sensei.Ebihara-sensei at KenZen is top-notch as well. If you're closer to KenZen, check it out - you'd be missing out by not going there, too. Very well respected school.

[rainmaker]

Check out these two videos. They are both well known and respectable senseis.


Ebihara Sensei:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrxOVHV7aLI


Kataoka Sensei
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMb2PDYO0Do

[b8amack]

"The perfect winning?
The other side will smile... and die."

I love that.

[eon]

Aww man, I feel so stupid for getting involved with that McDojo. I'm so glad you guys told me about that - I'm lucky I didn't get in too deep. I'm absolutely going to look for any of those AUSKF dojos. I think I'll try the Ken-Zen Institute first, but I've heard so many great things about Kataoka-sensei that I may end up going there after all. It's just about fitting in the transportation time with all my homework from college. Seems like, from what you all have said, I'd really be missing out if I didn't go to Kataoka-sensei.

Anyway thanks again for everything, guys - I'll post a thread about the AUSKF dojo I join this coming September when I move back out there for college! (Meanwhile of course I'll talk about other things on this forum)

I'm gonna get one of those indigo gi's too ;)
If you are planning on joining a kendo dojo don't buy a gi yet. Your sensei will tell you when you are ready to. You have to have good footwork before you can wear a hakama and gi or else you will just trip over yourself!

[Curtis]

On the subject of A) uwagi and B) that video, if you buy any more uwagi beyond that indigo one that you're planning, avoid the shiro musashi type that Guy-sensei's partner is wearing in the video (white with a pattern of black threads). It's reserved for children under 12, and shouldn't be worn by adults.

Really, this is not the case. If you look at historical pictures you will see adults wearing those uwagi. As you can see they sell them in adult sizes though they tend to run on the small side. I cannot say that I would wear one as they are too thin for my taste and the sleeves tend to be too short from what I have seen.

I get the impression they are making somewhat of a comeback for adults.

[Alicia]

If you are planning on joining a kendo dojo don't buy a gi yet. Your sensei will tell you when you are ready to. You have to have good footwork before you can wear a hakama and gi or else you will just trip over yourself!

The OP said they have alrady being doing kendo 6 years...

[still learning]

...and the sleeves tend to be too short...

I understand that this is deliberate - so that we can see the shape[s] of the arm[s] during early/developmental stages.

[Martch]

I understand that this is deliberate - so that we can see the shape[s] of the arm[s] during early/developmental stages.

Arms during developmental stages? I know this type of gi is for kids but are you telling me foetuses are doing Kendo now!?

[Tachi-kaze]

The OP said they have alrady being doing kendo 6 years...

Yes, I've practiced Kendo for 6 years with an AUSKF-certified sensei in Ohio, but I just moved to NYC last year for college and was looking for a kendo place there. Unfortunately I stumbled upon that McDojo and only attended 3 classes so I had no idea the bad situation I was getting into. I'm getting out of it ASAP and going directly to either Ebihara-sensei or Kataoka-sensei. After all, I did come to NYC to look for quality and I'm not about to put up with anything any less.

And for the gi, I've used a second-hand one with a couple holes in it for the whole time I've ben training in Ohio, and was just looking for a newer replacement. The old gi was already faded to blue and I was looking for a blue replacement, but I'll just get a new indigo one and wait for it to fade; or keep my old one--it still works, after all (though it's a bit thinner than they traditionally are now from wear)

[Smakfull]

http://www.joernmeiners.de/Bilder/Ju_Sports/HakamaRed_-04.jpg ?

My next hakama however will definitly be pink. :D
http://mazkiyausa.com/images/Untitled-81%20copy.jpg

[H.Sandsleth]

If you want to see some authentic and wild hakama (and other clothes), try a search here: http://www.ichiroya.com/