is Kendo right for me?

[Heron Marked]

Hey all, just signed up a little while ago. Sorry in advance if I happen to offend anyone in my ignorance.

Anyways, I am heading to college in the fall and was hoping to join a Kendo club. Its something I've always had an interest in but was never able to act on it, until now. It is basically going to be my replacement sport (The university I'm going to is D1 in tennis. I think I'm good, but not THAT good). On to the issues...

I looked up some videos and it seemed like matches are decided within a series of short strokes. Though this surely displays incredible technique and talent, I was hoping for something...more. Shouldn't a match consist of numerous blocks and attempts to strike? Wouldn't this whole "one stroke" mentality end with both users struck? And whats with he whole "I'm going to hold my sword against your sword and then we're going to circle each other and then step back"? I also don't understand after both players strike (and miss i think?) both player raise their hands and stand over from the beginning.

Once again, sorry for my lack of knowledge but the only information I can find is the typical, "kendo promotes discipline..." stuff

Thanks for all the replies! I shall respond after I come home from work.

[Big One]

Well, too many thing to answer but I will try.

Whatever you see on youtube is not everything about Kendo. Kendo was evolved from sword fight in the ancient time where one strike was enough to kill and therefore, the idea was finding the way to kill with the shortest time you could. Blocking was to counter attack so it was not just blocking.

Sword fight was not practical anymore when the gun was invented and therefore, Kendo was become a martial aka sport to develop you inner personality to be calm and control of the situation and seize the opportunity when it presents to you.

When you Kendoka striking each other and let say they missed, they will assume the effective striking distance to resume the fight. You can strike your opponent when you are mile away and effective striking distant was a bamboo sword length. If two people strike at the same time then whoever creates an opportunity win because he is the one controling the situation.

If you want to know that Kendo is for you, then you should talk to some teacher (Sensei) directly so he can explain to you further.

[Anime12478]

All of those blocks that you see in the movies are just there for effect and filler to make the fight last long (along with the usual monologue about the world going to hell and how they want to defend their honor...or whatever). The mentality behind the "one stroke" is that you need to dispatch your enemy as fast as possible since the other person also has a sharp sword (it's shinai in this case, but you get the idea). If you block, you might succeed, but the fight will only last longer and increase your chances to lose.

When you see the two people close to each other (I assume you mean this), is called tsuba-zeriai (probably too much info at this point though). Technically, you can do stuff to get a point, but if neither person can, they just reset. In a tournament setting, they'll just pull you apart anyways :).

The think about Kendo is that, while it seems limiting, there is actually quite a bit of stuff going on between the players. I really suggest you go to the Kendo club when you get to college and check them out before giving an early judgement on what you see. By the way, what college are you going to?

EDIT: Big One got there just before I did, so sorry for the double-info there.

[Mudansha]

Hello,

I think the others have gotten the gist of it, but it might be good to say that Kendo is really neither hollywood sword-fighting class nor is it a pure sport like Tennis, that is, sport for sports' sake, even though college clubs tend to put emphasis on the competitive aspect of it (not that there's anything wrong with that).

In a real sword fight blocking without attacking is very dangerous, which is why Kendo emphasizes one cut to kill the opponent. It might seem a bit simple at first, but you will be surprised at how difficult it is.

The circle and then step back is actually also a dangerous position, often the result of missed or failed cuts. Many players will exploit openings from that distance and make "fatal" cuts while moving backwards, but sometimes they may be more interested in fencing from the farther distance and will step back and try again. Kendo is a bit idealistic or abstract in this way, so it may not be your cup of tea, but like the others have mentioned I suggest visiting the club first and seeing if you are interested in what they are doing.

Which school is it?

[Bokushingu]

Hey all, just signed up a little while ago. Sorry in advance if I happen to offend anyone in my ignorance.

Anyways, I am heading to college in the fall and was hoping to join a Kendo club. Its something I've always had an interest in but was never able to act on it, until now. It is basically going to be my replacement sport (The university I'm going to is D1 in tennis. I think I'm good, but not THAT good). On to the issues...

I looked up some videos and it seemed like matches are decided within a series of short strokes. Though this surely displays incredible technique and talent, I was hoping for something...more. Shouldn't a match consist of numerous blocks and attempts to strike? Wouldn't this whole "one stroke" mentality end with both users struck? And whats with he whole "I'm going to hold my sword against your sword and then we're going to circle each other and then step back"? I also don't understand after both players strike (and miss i think?) both player raise their hands and stand over from the beginning.

Once again, sorry for my lack of knowledge but the only information I can find is the typical, "kendo promotes discipline..." stuff

Thanks for all the replies! I shall respond after I come home from work.

Because you haven't even started training, those matches look like that to you. but to a person that has been training in Kendo for over 3 years they can see much more. For a person that has been training over 8 years, they can understand much more, & for a person that has been training over 15 years, they can predict what will happen a second or two before it happens.

Of course those times aren't written in stone. One of my sempai's told me this about four years ago when I too thought i was seeing only what you described.

at 5 years, I still can't understand everything i see when two people face each other, but I can see & enjoy every part of it--and mostly it's beautiful. ^_^

[ShinKenshi]

Hey all, just signed up a little while ago. Sorry in advance if I happen to offend anyone in my ignorance.

Anyways, I am heading to college in the fall and was hoping to join a Kendo club.What college are you heading to, if you don't mind my asking?


Its something I've always had an interest in but was never able to act on it, until now. It is basically going to be my replacement sport (The university I'm going to is D1 in tennis. I think I'm good, but not THAT good).Try a few practices, see if you really like it, and then continue if you do. If not, try something else.


I looked up some videos and it seemed like matches are decided within a series of short strokes. Though this surely displays incredible technique and talent, I was hoping for something...more.Such as?


Shouldn't a match consist of numerous blocks and attempts to strike?Thank Hollywood for that image.


Wouldn't this whole "one stroke" mentality end with both users struck?Nope, that would only happen if both involved were perfect, which is impossible.


And whats with he whole "I'm going to hold my sword against your sword and then we're going to circle each other and then step back"?They are checking each other and are trying to feel out what their opponent is going to do. It's similar to how boxers throw jabs or weave left and right (those with actual boxing experience are more than welcome to correct me on this).


I also don't understand after both players strike (and miss i think?) both player raise their hands and stand over from the beginning.While I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to, I think you're talking about how after each attempted strike that the person thinks is successful, they have their arms raised at or above the height at which they strike a target. That's part of proper technique and following through with the strike, which you'll learn if you decide to start practicing.


Once again, sorry for my lack of knowledge but the only information I can find is the typical, "kendo promotes discipline..." stuffWhich is by and large what kendo is about. Kendo isn't about wailing on people with a bamboo sword; it's about improving yourself, body and mind, through countless hours of practice. I personally feel that kendo is one of the most vivid ways of seeing every facet, bad and good, of your personality. There are few things in this world that constantly remind you that no matter how many years you practice it, you'll still be more than a lifetime away from perfection.

Of course, we can tell you all of our experiences and reasons you should practice kendo until the cows come home but nothing can compare to experiencing it for yourself. Even if you only have a passing interest in it, give it a go, speak with the instructors and the students, and learn by direct experience.

[1stdan]

Heron, You should try it at least once. Your first class will not be the fighting you saw via youtube ot TV or whatever, But I assure you there is a lot more to it than a one stroke mentality. It takes a lot to get into it but the rewards undecribable. Go watch and ask questions. you will see after ten years of tae kwon do, i feel this took me up to a whole different level of martial arts, beyond what I ever imagined.

[Heron Marked]

thanks for all the replies! I just got back from work so here it goes...

I am planning to attend the University of Wisconsin - Madison. Anyone practice there / know of anyone who does?

I guess everyone is right about the whole Hollywood thing. In a battle, one does try to kill his enemy as fast as possible. It reminds me when in middle school a friend and I fought with padded sticks (silly to all of you, I know, but it was one of the only times in my life besides tennis and paint balling that i felt truly alive). He practiced a martial art of some sort but was interested in swords, but had no instruction. One thing I remember him telling me was that I always aimed for his weapon, and not HIM.

I am definitely going to give it a try though. I really hope I will like it, but I guess I'll know soon enough. I just have this thing where I need to research everything I plan on doing.

I have another question that may or may not seem stupid but....I know in olden day Japan there were schools that taught different styles of the sword. Is that still something prominent (the different styles?) or does kendo not relate? What I mean to say it that if i practiced at this one dojo, would it differ in another?

I hope I replied to most of you. Feel free to give me more advice though. The more I hear from "real people" rather than random things I find on the internet is great.

I am going to put it out there and say something that is probably sacrilegious to you guys, but I am interested in kendo for the sword fighting aspect, not the discipline.

Sorry for the grammatical mistakes in advance, its late and I can't think straight. Hope to hear from this community again in the morning!

[Neil Gendzwill]

One thing I remember him telling me was that I always aimed for his weapon, and not HIM.If you watch most movie choreography, and also many demos by karate schools that don't really know swords, that is one feature that is always true - every attack is aimed for the weapon. There are some fake kenjutsu schools that claim to spar with live steel, and if you watch their videos you will see that they in fact are just bashing each others weapons. Watch the real thing, and it's either straight for the target, or a single beat to take the weapon out of play and then on to the target.

[1stdan]

I have another question that may or may not seem stupid but....I know in olden day Japan there were schools that taught different styles of the sword. Is that still something prominent (the different styles?) or does kendo not relate? What I mean to say it that if i practiced at this one dojo, would it differ in another?


If you practicw Kendo under as dojo sanctioned by the AUSKF, any dojo you attend should follw a standard set by the ZNKR out of Japan. You can even go to japan and the sensei will be teaching the same stuff. Not like going to three different TKD schools and getting three different styles. If you stay with AUSKF affiliated dojo you will be on track.

For different styles of sword art Look into Iaido. There are many different Ryu and they are all pretty legit. Your Kendo dojo may even offer a Iaido class. Ask your sensei.

One last thing Heron. Be patient and give it time. Kendo can be very difficult and frustrating when you start, But stick with it. you may not find what you seek for trhe first year or so depending on how you progress. But it is all worth it when you move to the next level.

[Big One]

University of Wisconsin, Madison has many great people there and their Sensei are 100% friendly.

[Mudansha]

I think its safe to say that MANY people start for the "sword fighting aspect" and yet end up staying for the "discipline." It's a totally legitimate reason to start, but like others have said if you keep an open mind it will lead to greater things.

[Heron Marked]

University of Wisconsin, Madison has many great people there and their Sensei are 100% friendly.

oohhh are you familiar with them? On their Kendo home page there are only like 10 members, half of them being graduate students i believe? I got kinda nervous haha.

[ShinKenshi]

I am planning to attend the University of Wisconsin - Madison. Anyone practice there / know of anyone who does?I've practiced with a few of their members (who I'm sure have since graduated) but nevertheless, a top notch group and you couldn't be luckier in the midwest when it comes to college kendo. I used to practice with the Carleton College kendo club in Northfield, MN so if you get the chance to go to their annual godokeiko, please do.


I have another question that may or may not seem stupid but....I know in olden day Japan there were schools that taught different styles of the sword. Is that still something prominent (the different styles?) or does kendo not relate? What I mean to say it that if i practiced at this one dojo, would it differ in another?Kendo itself is an amalgamation of various traditional schools (koryu) and many of them still exist through iaido mostly. Kendo itself doesn't have multiple distinct schools in the way that iaido does. With only slight differences in relatively small things such as warm ups, and specific drills, the techniques themselves are the same everywhere.


I am going to put it out there and say something that is probably sacrilegious to you guys, but I am interested in kendo for the sword fighting aspect, not the discipline.Hold your horses, you're not going to be sparring with anyone for quite a while. Your first few months will be spent just learning footwork and the three basic strikes. You'll then move on to hitting stationary targets, more footwork, and then possibly get permission to wear gi and hakama (kendo top and pleated pants). I had to wait an entire year before I could start to put on armor so while it will depend on your sensei, don't expect to be hitting anyone or anything until second semester or so.

Best thing I can recommend for you to do is to go to your first practice without any preconceptions, just try to be a blank slate. It's not going to be a walk in the park, you'll feel that discipline pretty quickly but don't let it get to you. Just do as everyone else does and you'll be fine.

[ender84567]

Wisconsin has a good group, and in general (i may be biased) I think the midwest is a great place to be involved in kendo. They offer a class which is probably a good way to get started, but ASAP I would recommend joining club practices too (you will progress faster). Good luck to you and I would hope to see you at the next midwest event (the taikai coming up in fall is probably too soon, so probably the Detroit tournament, or next Midwest student tournament.)

[chidokan]

there is an excellent old book on european 'sword fighting' that you need to find. (on here I dont give out titles, you have to go and find them... its part of the learning exercise) It reads more like a 'dirty tricks book' than an actual guide to fencing. It's the book the bad guys read before engaging in hollywood film fights.:grin:
For kendo you just need to practise a lot. Then do a bit more practise. easy.:grin:

[yoda-waza]

... I am definitely going to give it a try though. I really hope I will like it, but I guess I'll know soon enough...
I am going to put it out there and say something that is probably sacrilegious to you guys, but I am interested in kendo for the sword fighting aspect, not the discipline.

I hope you discover some attraction to kendo other than sword-fighting but if it turns out not to be what you were looking for then perhaps swashbuckling (http://www.amazon.com/Swashbuckling-Step-Step-Theatrical-Swordplay/dp/0879100915/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1249331120&sr=8-1) is closer to your field of interest. Try U of W Theater and Drama department (http://www.theatre.wisc.edu/).

[chidokan]

at that point, the answer would be NO....:D

[Timeline]

I would like to recommend going to one of the lessons and look at joining your college Kendo Club.

Kendo is such a positive activity, and well worth at least taking part in a few practises :)

[Paikea]

...but I am interested in kendo for the sword fighting aspect, not the discipline.Nonono...that won't work. The discipline is why you do this, the swords/shinai/bokken are just tools to get you there.

"If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you
have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?

[Neil Gendzwill]

What's wrong with being interested in fighting with swords? If it's not fun/interesting/exciting, why do we do it instead of some other michi? I think it's more than a bit disingenuous of us to criticize a newbie for having the same interests that most of us had at the start and still have.

[cr720]

I know that part of the reason I joined Kendo at first was for the "sword fighting" aspect, and even though I'm still a long way off from "sparring" practice in armor, it's still a selling point for me, although for different reasons now (to learn about my own strengths and weaknesses, rather than to see if I'm "better" than someone else)

[Paikea]

What's wrong with being interested in fighting with swords? If it's not fun/interesting/exciting, why do we do it instead of some other michi? I think it's more than a bit disingenuous of us to criticize a newbie for having the same interests that most of us had at the start and still have.I'm sorry, was I coming off as critical? Didn't mean to be...just trying to point out that kendo won't let you pick and choose the parts you like and the ones you might not have as much interest in.

[Heron Marked]

Hello again! Thanks once more for the many replies. Anyways, a few more concerns after reading the posts...

What does the average practice entail? All I can currently imagine is stroke practices, footing work, and perhaps a few mental exercises. One you mentioned I probably wouldn't even be allowed to wear the gear and spar until (if I'm lucky) the second semester. What will I be doing whist the elder members spar? watch and learn I guess? (not that there is anything wrong with that)

Once again, sorry for sounding ignorant, but how does one exactly become "disciplined" through kendo as you say? I have some sort of an idea but would like to hear from people who've had a first person experience with it. I am sure some of you have to be doing kendo because of the swordsmanship part of it, because there are many other easier ways to discipline one's self...

Nice post of the U of W drama club by the way, lol. Twas a good laugh. :D

[1stdan]

You will have lots to learn whilst the seniors do Keiko or practice. In my class everyone warms upo together doing some basic excersizes. when the seniors put on bogu and begin Keiko, Our junior students begin doing footwork drills, suburi or styroke practice as you called it. Learning good form in teh swing and learning how tocombine the two. Its harder than it looks. They also learn etiquite, and how to prticipate in class. This is my dojo. Yours could be the same or completely different. Most likely it willl be close to what we do with a few personal touches from your sensei.

[ShinKenshi]

What does the average practice entail? All I can currently imagine is stroke practices, footing work, and perhaps a few mental exercises.It varies from dojo to dojo but in general you've pretty much hit the nail on the head. The mental excercise comes in the form of whether or not you decide to stick with it and are willing to accept that you're going to feel like a beginner for years to come.


One you mentioned I probably wouldn't even be allowed to wear the gear and spar until (if I'm lucky) the second semester. What will I be doing whist the elder members spar? watch and learn I guess? (not that there is anything wrong with that)Again, depends. At my dojo, my sensei will work with the beginners while my sempai (senior students) run us through drills. When we start to spar, sensei will work with the beginners a bit more, dismiss them, put on his bogu and join us. Other places may have a sempai leading the beginners through the entire practice separate from the more advanced students. You'll find out when you show up for your first practice. Also, my guess is that you'll be able to start wearing the uniform at the start of your second semester and bogu maybe your sophomore year. As I said, I had to wait 10 months before I could wear the uniform and over a year before I could start wearing bogu. It also highly depends on your sensei so don't go off and buy up things without first consulting him/her.


Once again, sorry for sounding ignorant, but how does one exactly become "disciplined" through kendo as you say? I have some sort of an idea but would like to hear from people who've had a first person experience with it. I am sure some of you have to be doing kendo because of the swordsmanship part of it, because there are many other easier ways to discipline one's self...As we keep saying over and over again, show up for practice and experience it for yourself. For me, it's developing the mental discipline to show up for every single practice and put 100% effort into every aspect of my kendo as well as my life. There have been many times where I've felt like keeling over and collapsing from exhaustion but I pushed myself through it. Another part of it is the etiquette and manners that are inherent to kendo due to Japanese culture. Kendo has a saying: kendo begins and ends with rei. Rei is Japanese for bowing but it also means so much more than that. It refers to etiquette and showing respect. The Concept of Kendo (http://www.kendo-fik.org/english-page/english-page2/concept-of-Kendo.htm) summarizes what the goal of kendo is and you'll get a better idea of what we mean.

Yes, there are easier ways to get that discipline but kendo has a unique way of revealing your own flaws in the clearest way possible. It takes a strong will to be able to face those flaws and fight to overcome them.

[ender84567]

Actually at wisconson, if you take the class they put you into bogu during the class (one semester class), its kinda a japanese style class from what i hear; i.e. 'hold the shinai like this, ok now swing it like this, ok now put on bogu and lets do jigeiko'. Thru kiyota sensei's contacts they have a lot of donated bogu that they can use.

[ShinKenshi]

Actually at wisconson, if you take the class they put you into bogu during the class (one semester class), its kinda a japanese style class from what i hear; i.e. 'hold the shinai like this, ok now swing it like this, ok now put on bogu and lets do jigeiko'. Thru kiyota sensei's contacts they have a lot of donated bogu that they can use.Is the class different from the kendo club? I had heard about the introductory class before but wasn't sure if that's all it is and is separate from regular club practices.

[ender84567]

The class is offered for credit, its obviously run by the club but my understanding is that its 100% first time beginners. We also run a class at MSU for credit and its 100% beginners as well, the idea is you get to focus on special needs in the class, and then encourage them to join the club once they have learned enough to join a full club practice. I cant speak from experience, but Kiyota Sensei seems to have quite a bit of influence over whats taught in the class, so there is a little more zen Buddhism than you would see in a normal Kendo curriculum.

[ender84567]

http://www.anthropology.wisc.edu/kendo/Class/media.html

link to pictures from the uw class, again, its easy to spot their class members as they are the ones at seminars without hakama/keikogi ;)

EDIT: additionally I feel I can safely say the club is a little more normal :-P
http://www.anthropology.wisc.edu/kendo/Club/media.html

[ShinKenshi]

http://www.anthropology.wisc.edu/kendo/Class/media.html

link to pictures from the uw class, again, its easy to spot their class members as they are the ones at seminars without hakama/keikogi ;)

EDIT: additionally I feel I can safely say the club is a little more normal :-P
http://www.anthropology.wisc.edu/kendo/Club/media.htmlInteresting, looks like Kiyota Sensei has found a good way of getting college kids excited about kendo. I wonder how many students who take that class and end up going to kendo club practices continue after finding out they won't be in bogu again for a while.

[cr720]

Just on a side note:

That is really kind of odd to see people in bogu and not keikogi/hakama, as well! I'm just so used to seeing them together.

That would have been great to take a class like that for credit in college. I would've been all over it.

[Kyung]

My advice to you, out of experience, is never replace your first sport. You might turn out getting too absorbed in kendo and years later realize you had a real talent for tennis and somewhat regret not having kept up with it. You can do it on the side, though which would be very expensive. And the smell is unbelievable.