Kendo Training?

[Ryuu_Shade]

I am planning to start Kendo in October (a beginner class is starting October 6th at Mushinkan Dojo) and was wondering about what most of the training is.
These questions are definitely noobish, so I am posting in the FAQ forum.
I understand that Kendo is more a sport than teaching you to use a sword, but it seems like the actual moves don't vary very much. Is there more variety in the moves than meets the eye? Or is there a lot more in the moves than meets the eye? I read a little here and there through the forums, and it looks like it takes a very long time to rank up in Kendo. I don't mind that, If I join Kendo I would prefer to stick with it untill the day I die. However I am just wondering what the Ranks are for if the skill-set is so small

[stealth_monkey]

was wondering about what most of the training is

I'm just beginning to move into full bogu, so I've recently experienced the beginner's side. In terms of techniques, you've got your three cuts, a couple of interesting waza depending on what your sensei wants to teach you as a treat and then the footwork. This (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21696) thread deals with the kind of thing you'll be covering


Is there more variety in the moves than meets the eye?
Absolutely. There's a mind-boggling amount of different techniques that can be done. It's not just the cuts that you've got to learn, each cut has dozens of variations from footwork to the way you grip the shinai


Or is there a lot more in the moves than meets the eye?
Absolutely. General consensus is you can practice kendo for a lifetime and you could still be working on perfecting your basic men cut.


I read a little here and there through the forums, and it looks like it takes a very long time to rank up in Kendo
Depends what you mean by rank up. In terms of progression, kendo is technically quite quick in regards to kyu ranks and pretty standard in regards to dan for a japanese art. However, the thing about kendo is that it really hammers in shodan as the start of your kendo career, as there are several techniques you have really no place learning until you're up around 3rd dan and above. I'm one of those rank is entirely meaningless guys, so my opinion is a healthy who gives a damn how long it takes.

Hope this helps out, and the more experienced kendoka will no doubt be able to build on what I've said

[EndureForte]

That skill-set you mentioned is incredibly complex. You'll need all that time to figure out how to do it right. Promise. Remember what Bruce Lee said, don't fear a man that practices a thousand different kicks one time, fear a man that practices one kick a thousand times (or something like that).

[atgm]

I've only been doing kendo for a year, and never outside my area, so take my comments with a grain of salt.


I am planning to start Kendo in October (a beginner class is starting October 6th at Mushinkan Dojo) and was wondering about what most of the training is.

I'm glad you decided to start there!


Is there more variety in the moves than meets the eye? Or is there a lot more in the moves than meets the eye?

There are a bunch of kihon waza that form the basis of everything you do (kihon means fundamental, waza means technique, so fundamental techniques). There's a lot of variation in when or how you perform them.

I mean, anything can look simple -- baseball is just about throwing, catching, or hitting a ball. Tennis is about running back and forth and hitting a ball. Kendo's the same way -- it's as complex as you can make it.


I read a little here and there through the forums, and it looks like it takes a very long time to rank up in Kendo.

Depends on the area. Some people may not go up in rank because they can't grade, don't want to grade, can't afford to grade, can't make it to the grading, etc. Some areas may have only one grading a year.

Additionally, rank requirements by federation seem to vary a fair bit; Germany, I've heard, has very, very strict requirements for kyuu grades. I sometimes feel like America is much harsher on the lower grades than Japan is. Kyuu grades are for elementary school kids, 1-kyuu is for first-year junior high kids (7th grade America), then you can get 1-dan in your second year at junior high. A lot of the kids that join the kendo club in junior high and do kendo for the first time will take 1-kyuu in the first year if they practice every day.

I don't know why it seems slower in America, if it actually is -- perhaps requirements/judges are stricter or maybe it's the limited availability of grading opportunities.

Practice time also factors in a lot; some people may only be able to practice at a dojo once a week. The kids here who take 1-kyuu in a year practice five, six days a week, sometimes two times a day -- in both morning AND evening!



However I am just wondering what the Ranks are for if the skill-set is so small

Well, look at it this way. The skillset may be small, but it takes a long time to refine the technique and do it just right under pressure. It takes longer still to know the right times to do those techniques.

Karate is just punching and kicking, judo is just grabs, throws, and pins... but they have grades too because it takes a long time to learn how to do each thing properly AND quickly.

I guess you could modify the old saw and say: you can do a technique properly, quickly, or at the right time -- if you're a beginner, pick one.

The goal is to be able to do all three.

[rfoxmich]

"I took me 50 years to master the basics"
- Mochida Moriji sensei 10-dan hanshi

[ender84567]

'Kendo is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.'

[ender84567]

but in all seriousness, After reading your last thread, you are over-thinking things still, you need to practice for awhile before you will understand, as Ron said, just getting a handle on basics or kihon is more than any of us can hope to achive in a lifetime, ranks demonstrate an accomplished amount of time studying kendo (based on the waiting periods) as well has a level of development and understanding. At each rank a judging panel is looking for people testing to demonstrate a certain level of proficiency in certain things (ki ken tai, taking advantage of suki, footwork, body posture etc... lots of more things that i'm too much of a beginner to understand)

[Shinsengumi77]

I don't have some interesting quote, but I'm still a beginner after three years -and I will be for a long, long time. Don't worry about ranking up or time. If it's supposedly a lifelong pursuit, thinking about "how many years until this" or "how much time 'till that" is kind of pointless.

Yes, kendo is much, much more complex than you think. There are only a limited number of targets to hit, but you can hit them in countless different ways. Once you face someone who's been doing Kendo for maybe 20 years or so you'll know just how much you have to learn. Learning how to use your eyes is hard enough. Learning how to breath is hard enough. You may find that many things you think are unimportant or simple now, will be worth spending years and years to develop.

To give you an idea: I've been taught men, kote, do, tsuki, and a variety of waza to use with them (nuki, debana, suriage, kaeshi...) but my strongest technique is men uchi.

That said, I can't hit men uchi well at all.

[Neil Gendzwill]

However I am just wondering what the Ranks are for if the skill-set is so smallValid question. Most people are used to rank tests in martial arts consisting of demonstrating techniques or forms. In judo for example, there are a set number of techniques that you need to know for each coloured belt and corresponding kata. Some karate systems require knowing lots of elaborate kata.

We don't run through a catalog of technique in a kendo exam. The main element in a kendo exam is where you demonstrate what you know in a fight. You must play two other candidates for the same grade. So we have a strong emphasis on being able to execute against somebody, even at the lower ranks. The technique themselves may appear to be simple, but the execution is another matter entirely.

As far as "slow to rank up", actually just the opposite. It's not uncommon for people to achieve shodan in 2 years of hobby practice, compared to 5-10 years in some other martial arts. But you can't compare directly, we make no secret that we regard shodan as a beginners' rank, whereas in other styles it's the holy grail.

[ender84567]

execution is another matter entirely.

As far as "slow to rank up", actually just the opposite. It's not uncommon for people to achieve shodan in 2 years of hobby practice, compared to 5-10 years in some other martial arts. But you can't compare directly, we make no secret that we regard shodan as a beginners' rank, whereas in other styles it's the holy grail.


or Nidan in 3. Its interesting that for me, before I received shodan I did view it as the holy grail, but afterward I considered it nothing more than acknowledgment that I was ready to become a beginner.

[Ryuu_Shade]

Thank you for your replies. I am surprised and glad none of you seemed to take this as a insult to what you enjoy doing. It is hard for me not to research something I am interested in, and I have access to a forum full of kendo practitioners. How can I resist asking questions?
Your answers were enlightening, thank you.

[suneohair]

i had the same question in mind. after reading the replies, i realize that i have a LOT to learn -- and am very eager at the thought of learning. noob here.


suneo

[yoda-waza]

You'll discover that kendo is not about a variety of cool sword fighting techniques. You'll simply drop out if you do. There is no short path in kendo and any responses here will not mean much to you without some years of experience under your belt. So you have to ask: Are you willing to invest years of yourself in pursuit of something that is not about being flashy but may reveal something else worthwhile instead?