Takeda Ryu (ISTB)

[Ultravires]

Kón'nichi wá! (or should I rather say oháyo gozaimas lol)

I am not only a newbie in this forum but I'm also newbie in the world of kendo.

I have never practised kendo in my life ... actually I was closest to kendo, when I practised kobudo and bo-jitsu :) I'm a karateka myself.

The reason why am I posting here is 'cause I need your help to find the right dojo to start practising kendo from start.

I'm living in Vienna (Austria lol) now and we do have some dojos here but the one, which programme is most interesting, is Takeda Ryu Sobudo.

www.takedaryu.com (http://www.takedaryu.com/)
www.takedaryu.info (http://www.takedaryu.info/)

Here you can practise Aikido, Iaido, Jodo, Jukempo and Kendo at the same time.
Well that's all nice and ok but it doesn't seem that this school is a part of any international kendo organization etc. so I'm asking you, if you know the dojo? Is this school good? Should I train here?

Go-kuro-sama des!

O-genki de,

Gregor

[isi]

Look at:

http://kendo.nwy.at/

from my crummy german it looks like there are at least two clubs in Vienna for you to visit and this is the association that is affiliated with the European and International Kendo Federations.

[JSchmidt]

I'm sorry to say that it very much looks like McDojo with some kind of homebrewed martial art.
Just the fact that he calls himself 'samurai' and 'master of the secret level' kinda gives it away.
Go here for more information about Kendo in Austria:

http://kendo.nwy.at/

[Andoy]

What the heck is that?? Whatever that is it isn't kendo

[darkluc3]

no that isn't kendo, that's wannabe and... it sucks ;) so forget it!

in vienna there are 2 dojos, the wkv and kenshikan. it doesn't matter which you join, because they are together, so you can visit each training of both clubs, but you just pay for one... i'm in kenshikan ( www.kenshikan.at ) and just a newb, but it's cool ;)

naja vielleicht kommst ja mal vorbei zuschaun, anfänger sind am dienstag und am donnerstag (am donnerstag is spannender, da sind auch rüstungsträger). ich glaub der nächste anfängerkurs beginnt im märz.

[Hitokiri]

Yes, this "takedaryu master school with 44 generations of super senseis" seems to be something very peculiar, and imo you shouldn't trust any not serious-looking, inofficial organization. I suggest you'd rather turn to kenshikan or the aka (austrian kendo association = wkv, wiener kendo verein) that were mentioned above, cause as far as I know these two are the only official orgs. in Austria! :wink: I'm living in Austria too and am attending the same dojo like darkluc3 and I can only recommend it. Anyways, if you wan't to see for yourself, I'm sure you're allowed to watch a practice session of this mysterious :ninja: takeda school which takes place in the Budokan Center in the 10th district of vienna (if I'm right).

PS: Just look at this guy, can't believe he's the ultimate master, but maybe I'm wrong... :evolved:

http://www.takedaryu.com/pictures/kobi/kobiportraetklein.jpg

[litige]

Someone with little history would know that aikido was invented by O-Sensei Morihei Ueshiba, not long ago.

but fithing with sinahi wrapped in cotton with not protection looks nice.
Exept for tsuki.

[litige]

And the Takeda Ryu doesn't exists anyway.

[Takeda]

Sorry guys, but just because it doesn´t look like Kendo the way you all know it that does not mean that it is not Kendo.

I have started to train within the Takeda-ryu about two years ago with the disciplines Jodo, Iaido and Aikido. The Iaido already combined with the first approaches to Kendo.

When I first came into the Dojo and brought my "original" Kendo shinai with me that I had at home to do some basic suburi exercises, the sensei looked a me and asked me what this should be. Later I found out that the Takeda-ryu had a completely different view of what Kendo should be. Let me quote what is shown on the webpage about it:

Quote:
KENDO
Doing the right thing at the right time requires mainly
patience, a strategic approach, courage and determination at
the right moment: all these things are taught by Takeda Ryu
Kendo. Training your mind and strengthening your will make
you purposeful, enduring and successful in life.

Takeda Ryu Kendo is also referred to as Sobukendo since it
involves many very different forms of combat that far
transcend those of the modern sport of Kendo.
Strategic fighting exercises including Koryu (=ancient)
Kenjutsu ("Tachi Kendo")

KENDO, the fencing, is part of the swordsmanship. For basic exercises wooden swords (BOKUTO) are used, in the TAKEDA school. On higher level, contraty the sports kendo, TAKEDA RYU KENDO uses no protection gear in fighting exercises. The players are forced to greater alertness not to reveal their weaknesses. The only concession to safety is the FUKURO SHINAI, a bamboo stick wrapped in cotton, and the skills of good fighters. Only children and lower grades are allowed to use protection gear.
Unquote:

I can only share my point of view here with you. I have been practising martial arts since I was 16 (Hap Ki Do, Goshin, Shotokan-Karate and now Takeda-ryu) but the reason why I quit Karate was exactly the reason why I joined the Takeda-ryu. Karate was simply degraded to a SPORT activity - nothing was left of the DO anymore. Takeda-ryu opened for me a completely new perspective of a traditional Budo.

@ Gregor:
I would suggest that you contact one of the vienna Takeda dojos and ask for a "Schnuppertraining". At least in Bruck/Mur where I train it is no problem at all to come several times to find out if you like it or not before you actually will get a membership. Generally speaking the whole thing really depends on what you want to do and what you expect. I am the last one to say that one way is correct and the other is not. Find out yourself. Contact me with a PM if you have any further questions where I might be able to help.

@Hitokiri: just because Sensei Kobilza doesn´t look like Toshiro Mifune I would not underestimate his skills. Never judge a book by the cover. The Soke of the Takeda-ryu is Sensei Nakamura. http://www.takedaryu.com/history/english/sokee.htm

Günter

[Hitokiri]

@ Takeda
I didn't really want to be offensive, I just said in my opinion the Takeda-ryu isn't the right thing for me. If it appeals to you, no prob, I'm not good enough to decide what is real kendo or not, but from my point of view it looks ridiculous. But that's only my opinion, don't bother :)

[darkluc3]

@takeda: everyone is free to make and think what he wants but... not to use an armor for being more careful is... well, i wouldn't like to be hit with nor without armor... but ok... i simply don't think that takeda kendo is kendo!

the kendo photographs on the austrian takeda page look like... well, let's say they are good actors ;) looking good isn't the true way for a martial art (m. musashi) and to throw down the opponent like in judo surely isn't kendo (even if i still don't know very much)... nor it is effective...

and the -DO of kendo still exists, it depends how YOU practice it, not the others...

[Ultravires]

Thank your guys for your replies. I've also got a reply from IKF/AJKF. They also said that they never heard for this particular school because there are millions of Ryu in Japan. That of course also means that Takeda Ryu is not a member of IKF.

So the answer to my question is probably simple ... if I want to train proper kendo and that my exames/graduation will be recognized I have to train in an school, wich is part of an official kendo association (e.g kenshikan).

And then, after I've trained kendo for min 5 years, I can go and explore the world of kendo and similar arts in other scools such as Takeda Ryu ... because then I'll be able to see and judge the quality of their techniques by myself.

:)

Go-kígen'yo!

[litige]

Didn't get it, Takeda Ryu is not a real ryu doesn't exist
And aikido was invented in not long ago, but not in 1200.

[litige]

A ryu so big, would documented on www.koryubooks.com.

[Hitokiri]

@ Ultravires

Yeah, sounds like a good decision to me! So maybe we'll soon meet during a kendo practice on Tuesday or Thursday (the days I'm attending training), good luck :)
Ii kettei desu, ganbatte kudasai!

@ Takeda
Darkluc is right in writing that the original meaning of kendo still exists. I don't know which experiences made you think that the way of kendo, the do, might has disappeared, but I can only say, whether the mentality and philosophy of kendo and traditional japanese budo is lost or kept in memory only depends on your attitude, no matter what others think or say! Wakarimashita ka? :)

saraba

[Takeda]

I´m really curious now: would one of you guys living in vienna do me a favour and really watch/attend one of the Takeda trainings to actually write here in first hand experience how the two styles actually differ in your opinion. What do you like what do you disklike etc.... I have to admit that I myself know "your" Kendo only from books and videos I have seen.

Talking about throws and other things not used in todays Kendo I have found an interesting thread here:
http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2209

BTW: I´m really happy that other people have other opinions - the world would be more than boring without it ;-)

[Raiza]

Well, we were just trying to save you the aggravation of working your butt off for an illegitimate organization. If you choose to invest your time, effort and money on "Takeda ryu", then by all means go right ahead. There's only one kind of kendo, which is descended from the myriad of kenjutsu disciplines so all people can practise kendo. It's not what the dojo you attend is doing, even if you call it sobukendo or what have you. It's not kendo, period. Nobody wants to be told that they've been deceived, but you have and you're only making the situation worse by trying to legitimize your choice of study. If you decide to continue your studies with this dojo, be prepared for the long haul as you will not be allowed to transfer your techniques to any other dojo, unless Hisashi Nakamura has a franchise chain going.

@Hitokiri: just because Sensei Kobilza doesn´t look like Toshiro Mifune I would not underestimate his skills. Never judge a book by the cover. The Soke of the Takeda-ryu is Sensei Nakamura. http://www.takedaryu.com/history/english/sokee.htm

Well I've been reading the lines in the book and I don't like what I see. Yeah, 43rd soke...anything over 20 is highly suspect. Resemblance to Toshiro Mifune is not a requirement to be a koryu master. That's a rather ignorant notion, especially from someone who professes to have studied several martial arts! Also, Hisashi Nakamura established his own association, then registered his own school with his own association. He only did this after the "Soke" passed away. Where was the authorization there?!? Well, I guess if you registered the school in your own association, that makes it totally legitimate! Let me run out right now and establish my very own ryu!

Talking about throws and other things not used in todays Kendo I have found an interesting thread here:
http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2209

As you profess to be know Shotokan karate, then you know what ashi barai is a technique, not a discipline. It was used frequently in pre-war kendo and is rarely seen today, and not in tournaments. Just because we don't allow leg sweeps in tournaments does not mean that kendo is no longer a martial art. That's yet another ignorant notion.

We don't mind discussing things, but the discipline you study is not kendo. It's not koryu, it's not legitimate kenjutsu. It's not a "style" of kendo. I suggest instead that you go visit one of the several kendo dojos in Vienna. I'm sure they'll be happy to show you that kendo is a martial art. I'm sorry, but you've been had. The others have been more polite about this but it seems that their message has not gotten through.

Shingen Takeda would be swirling in his urn if he found out his name would be used this way.

[Takeda]

@Raiza: Well I didn´t start with "Just look at this guy, can't believe he's the ultimate master, but maybe I'm wrong..." So please apologize if I tried a little bit to tease you all.

I never said that there is no DO in Kendo. I just wanted to say that I missed the DO in Karate. There was only techniques - no other way to approach it.

Do whatever you want but let me also do what I want. Offensive comments like this one are not necessary.

[darkluc3]

@takeda: well, but until you don't know the real kendo you can't compare it with your... takeda... try to look in a real dojo, it could be better also for yourself.

[Ultravires]

Well I have say imho that that is strange that the Takeda Ryu is not a member of AKA/IKF/AJKF. Why is that so (qestion for Takeda disciples)? How do you compete then and evaluate your progress?

For me as karateka is quite simple (as it's probably for any member of an official kendo association) ... i go to EKF/WKF competition (there are also others but if you can make a good result here, then ... lol) and compete in kumite and katas (although less in katas 'cause my technique is really bad lol) and I can see right away (as can the others lol) if I made any progress or not.

[darkluc3]

@ultravires: as we have said: it's not member of ikf cause it's not kendo...

[Tsukai-ban]

@ultravires: as we have said: it's not member of ikf cause it's not kendo...
Please keep in mind that the modality and the name "Kendo" as a martial way was not coinned by the IKF/AKA/AJKF. Word Kendo was introduced in the seventeenth century by the founder of the Abe Ryu. The ZNKR was only established in 1928. Kendo means the way of the sword, and any school that is or decends from a classical style of Kenjutsu can use the term Kendo to express a variation in teaching philosophy and a way of practice. It is the evolution of the art. It does not have follow the rules and regulations of a particular federation or organization. The word kendo came about to express change in times, thought and tradition; an evolution in a warrior class mentality. A seacrch for spiritual as well of tecnical growth influenced by confucious, Buddhist and Taoist thought.

@darkluc3: I guess the best way to put it is: It's not a member of IKF because it is not IKF Kendo. :)


@

[Kaoru]

Sorry guys, but just because it doesn´t look like Kendo the way you all know it that does not mean that it is not Kendo.

I have started to train within the Takeda-ryu about two years ago with the disciplines Jodo, Iaido and Aikido. The Iaido already combined with the first approaches to Kendo.

When I first came into the Dojo and brought my "original" Kendo shinai with me that I had at home to do some basic suburi exercises, the sensei looked a me and asked me what this should be. Later I found out that the Takeda-ryu had a completely different view of what Kendo should be. Let me quote what is shown on the webpage about it:

Quote:
KENDO
Doing the right thing at the right time requires mainly
patience, a strategic approach, courage and determination at
the right moment: all these things are taught by Takeda Ryu
Kendo. Training your mind and strengthening your will make
you purposeful, enduring and successful in life.

Takeda Ryu Kendo is also referred to as Sobukendo since it
involves many very different forms of combat that far
transcend those of the modern sport of Kendo.
Strategic fighting exercises including Koryu (=ancient)
Kenjutsu ("Tachi Kendo")

KENDO, the fencing, is part of the swordsmanship. For basic exercises wooden swords (BOKUTO) are used, in the TAKEDA school. On higher level, contraty the sports kendo, TAKEDA RYU KENDO uses no protection gear in fighting exercises. The players are forced to greater alertness not to reveal their weaknesses. The only concession to safety is the FUKURO SHINAI, a bamboo stick wrapped in cotton, and the skills of good fighters. Only children and lower grades are allowed to use protection gear.
Unquote:

I can only share my point of view here with you. I have been practising martial arts since I was 16 (Hap Ki Do, Goshin, Shotokan-Karate and now Takeda-ryu) but the reason why I quit Karate was exactly the reason why I joined the Takeda-ryu. Karate was simply degraded to a SPORT activity - nothing was left of the DO anymore. Takeda-ryu opened for me a completely new perspective of a traditional Budo.

@ Gregor:
I would suggest that you contact one of the vienna Takeda dojos and ask for a "Schnuppertraining". At least in Bruck/Mur where I train it is no problem at all to come several times to find out if you like it or not before you actually will get a membership. Generally speaking the whole thing really depends on what you want to do and what you expect. I am the last one to say that one way is correct and the other is not. Find out yourself. Contact me with a PM if you have any further questions where I might be able to help.

@Hitokiri: just because Sensei Kobilza doesn´t look like Toshiro Mifune I would not underestimate his skills. Never judge a book by the cover. The Soke of the Takeda-ryu is Sensei Nakamura. http://www.takedaryu.com/history/english/sokee.htm

Günter

Go to e-budo to comfirm if it is a legit Ryu or not, and ask if it is Kendo. The sensei from all over the world there will tell you for sure. Many very well known Koryu JSA and Kendo sensei are on that board, and it is a very serious Japanese sword arts board, too. Be sure to write the full name of the Ryu in your post.

Be aware that you MUST post your real given first and last names when posting. To register, go here:

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/register.php?action=signup

The Sword Arts forum is here:

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?forumid=16

By the way, Toshiro Mifune is an ACTOR. He is NOT a JSA Koryu sensei.

Takeda Ryu is NOT Kendo, however. There is a big difference between the two. I'm sure Hyaku-sensei can confirm this, if you ask him. He is on both this board and on e-budo.

Kaoru

[Tsukai-ban]

Go to e-budo to comfirm if it is a legit Ryu or not, and ask if it is Kendo. The sensei from all over the world there will tell you for sure. Many very well known Koryu JSA and Kendo sensei are on that board, and it is a very serious Japanese sword arts board, too. Be sure to write the full name of the Ryu in your post.

Takeda Ryu is NOT Kendo, however. There is a big difference between the two. I'm sure Hyaku-sensei can confirm this, if you ask him. He is on both this board and on e-budo.

Kaoru
@Kaoru: Thanks for the lead. :)

I know this forum is not for the discussion of Ryu Ha's, but here goes a quick explanation of Takeda Ryu Nakamura Ha's Kendo & history.

First there is no Kendo in Takeda Ryu, only Ken Jutsu. Takeda Ryu Nakamura Ha's Kendo is based on Takeda Ryu Kenjutsu and was created by Nakamura Soke in the early 1960's. Takeda Ryu's Kenjutsu is mostly an off shutte of Shinto Ryu Kenjutsu (Muso Shinto Ryu) and Kukishin Ryu Kenpo.

Takeda Ryu was established as a Ryu in 1948 by Oba Ichio, and except for its aiki no jutsu (Takeda Family's Ju Jitsu), its weapons tecniques are derived from Muso Shinto Ryu (Ken, Jo, Tanjo, Jutte & Kusari) & Kukishin Ryu (Ken, Jo, Hanbo, Jutte and Ju Jitsu). Oba Sensei had menkyo kaiden in Shinto ryu and Kukishin Ryu. He was also involved in the Butokukai in 1930's. In 1935 he became the 3rd head martial arts teacher of the Genyosha (Black Ocean Secret Society) head quarters in Fukuoka (Takeda Tadakatsu being the 1st & Nakamura Okichi the 2nd) which was sponcered by Toyama Mitsuru.

Toyama also sponcered Shimiju Takaji of Shinto Muso Ryu Jojutsu to open a dojo in Tokyo (Toyama Dojo). In 1960 Shimiju Sensei's jodo was recognized by AJKF and in 1968 introduced their “Seiteigata” forms of Jodo.

The Martial arts thought at the Genyosha dojo of Fukuoka before Oba Sensei were: Aiki no Justu and Ju Jitsu of the Takeda Family, Ken Jutsu (Shinto Ryu), Jo Jutsu (Muso Shinto Ryu, Uchida Ryu), Tessen Jutsu (variation of Ikkaku Ryu jutte jutsu & Isshin Ryu Kusarigama Jutsu). After the end of the War and Toyama's death Oba Sensei opened the Dojo to general public and called it Takeda Ryu.

Takeda Tadakatsu was of direct decendent of Takeda Nobutora (Shingen's father) and carried the family line (41st soke). The Takeda Family were retainers of the Ooto Family (Direct retainers of the Kuroda Daimyo) to overlook and teach Bujutsu to the samurai serving the Ooto family (Muso Shinto Ryu was the main Bujutsu of the Kuroda Daimyo). Nakamura Okichi (son of Ooto Atsurin) was a student and close friend of Takeda Tadakatsu and inhereted the Makimono's of the Takeda Family and eventually passed it on to Oba Sensei; therefore the name Takeda Ryu.

Nakamura Hisashi Sensei inhereted the Ryu after Oba's death in 1959, and became the 44th soke. Curently Takeda Ryu is divided in two: Takeda Ryu Koryu Bujutsu (Aiki no Jutsu, Ken Jutsu, Batto Jutsu, Jo Jutsu, Ju Jitsu, Kenpo, Shuriken Jutsu and Shugi Jutsu) and Takeda Ryu Nakamura Ha Budo (Nihon Sobudo Rengokai - Aikido, Kendo, iaido, Ju Kenpo and Jodo).

As a Ryu it is not a classical Koryu, but its roots are. Nakamura Soke has done a increadible job in maintaining the koryu he learned from Oba sensei and creating a gendai budo from it. It is definatly worth taking a look at. It is not your traditional IKF Kendo, but it is an interesting and fun way to practice the Ken.

[Ghost Dog]

@Tsukai-ban:

Excuse me, but where did you get all this information from, where is more to be found on the topic? Do you have personal experience with the school? (not meant to be offensive)

[Tsukai-ban]

@Ghost Dog

I have been a student of Takeda Ryu Nakamura Ha since 1990. I lived in Japan and trainned at the Hombu Dojo (Nihon Sobukai). I run my own Sobukai dojo since 1996. I have been researching the history of the Takeda Ryu for over a decade already and I am writing a book on it. Most of the information I have has been translated from japanese sources (documents, books, interviews, student log books from various schools, etc.).

Since this subject is beyond this thread and if you whish to repply, please send me a Private Message.

[Kaoru]

@Ghost Dog

I have been a student of Takeda Ryu Nakamura Ha since 1990. I lived in Japan and trainned at the Hombu Dojo (Nihon Sobukai). I run my own Sobukai dojo since 1996. I have been researching the history of the Takeda Ryu for over a decade already and I am writing a book on it. Most of the information I have has been translated from japanese sources (documents, books, interviews, student log books from various schools, etc.).

Since this subject is beyond this thread and if you whish to repply, please send me a Private Message.


Excuse me, but do you hold Menkyo Kaiden from Japan? You have to have that license to be allowed to teach a JSA(Not Kendo as we know it. But, all others.) and have a dojo. After have only studied 6 years, I'd say you don't, and are a non-legit teacher. Sorry. I do know what I am talking about, and you should go to e-budo and do the research I said to do. Nakamara-ha Ryu has been discussed there, and there are people who have taken Takeda's name and tried to connect themselves with it, even though they are not allowed to do so, and set up dojo claiming to be a link to the Takeda line. If you refuse to do the research, I certainly will. I'd rather know what this guy is about. It would be nice to be proven wrong and him turn out to be legit, but his website is just odd. Well, we will see. I challenge you to go to e-budo and do your reseach and ask the sensei there. And, I mean this in a polite way. :) It is better you know the facts, than not, from a reliable source, which the people on e-budo certainly are.

Kaoru

[Tsukai-ban]

Excuse me, but do you hold Menkyo Kaiden from Japan? You have to have that license to be allowed to teach a JSA(Not Kendo as we know it. But, all others.) and have a dojo. After have only studied 6 years, I'd say you don't, and are a non-legit teacher.Sorry. I do know what I am talking about, and you should go to e-budo and do the research I said to do.
@Kaoru: As you have said 6 years was not long enough for me to recieve a Menkyo Kaiden from the Nihon Sobudo Rengokai. Though I must disagre in your line of thought, there are many martial artist who have received it in less time in the history of Bujutsu and Budo. Yagyu Muneyoshi recieved a Hiden certificate (as you know it is quite a bit hiegher certificate than Menkyo Kaiden) from Kamiizumi Nobutsuna in two years; Ito Ittosai Kagehisa recieved the Hiden certificate from Kanemaki Jisai in less than 5 years; I used these examples because, as a swordsman you would know them. Don't get me wrong, I am not comparing myself to any of these outstanding men, I only whish I had 1/100 of their talent, determination and spirit!!

As for myself, the time that I did spend in Japan I dedicated soully to Nihon Sobudo. Unlike many others in the West, I have not bought my Menkyo Kaiden to represent a Ryu outside of Japan. I have been trainning Budo since the age of 4 (Kodokan Judo, Shotokan Karate & Ueshiba Aikido), until I discovered Takeda Ryu Nakamura Ha in 1990 (I am 36 know). After returning to my home country (1996), I received permition to open a club where I could continue trainning the arts I had learned. I have thought and trainned 6 days a week 4 hours a day (this is 312 days / 1248 hours a year) for the last 10 years. More than some people devote in a life time. I return to Japan every two years for a month to recycle my knowledge and take exams. Every year a Sensei from Sobukai comes here to teach and check up on us. Since I have not received my Menkyo Kaiden yet, all diplomas for my students come from my sensei in Japan, and his rank is Okuden Shihan.

I will return to Japan this year (14 years later) for the possibility of recieving my Menkyo Kaiden. If I don't get it it will not mater because my work is serious and eventually I will be recognized for it. We have a coupple saying's from were I come from: "The only thing that a belt (obi) is good for is to keep your dogi from openning;" "A diploma (Menkyo Kaiden) looks good on wall where all can admire, tecnique (wasa) looks good on the mat (tatame) where all can respect."

By the way I have linked at e-budo and am researching, thanks again for the link.

No regrets, not a minute of trainning and dedication wasted, definetly an art and a man to dedicate (serve) a life to.

Tsukai-ban
(I am just a mesenger spreading the word to the troops to advance)

[Eiliries]

Takeda Ryu is definitely not Kendo, although I must say I got a few giggles out of the web site, I guess there's a positive side to everything.....

[gsx1100s]

I am a great fan of the Takeda clan and its history. I'm a bit thrown by this thread. I'm not trying to be smart here at all , what link other than the schools name has the school got with Takeda Shingen and his heirs?
I haven't read the site in depth but what I have read seems to create a tenuos link between the family and the school. The most telling paragraph states that the school was in the "shadows" for 300 years. Then came back with a group called Genyosha training in Aikido for political reasons. I have no intention of slandering the school as I have not seen it. I cannot judge the people who run it as I've not met them.This is not a criticism of the Dojo , I just would like a clearer link to the Takeda clan for my own referances.
In establishing links with the original school it can sometimes be difficult not to find gaps of history due to war and politics. This may be the case.
I would love to hear a more concise history from our friend if he could contact me via private message rather than on this thread. I would appreciate any links to this info !:) Takeda crazy and loving it:smiley:

cheers michael

[CezarJ]

Siegfried Kobilza is mentioned in this thread at e-budo. Hope this helps.

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=28622