Masamune or Murasame?

[ZrJn89]

A friend of mine have been arugueing quite awhile on this, but isn't masamune the "good" sword make while murasame is the "evil" one? i kno the tokugawa family had bad luck with the murasame and labeled them as evil, but as the legend goes murasame is the "evil" on correct?

[hamish]

I think you mean Muramasa, not 'village shark' Murasame :)

I think that's the legend, anyway, all that stuff about the two being put in a stream, and the leaves go away from the Masamune, and get cut by the Muramasa as they flow past.

I'm sure if you got your head cut off by a Masamune you'd disagree, though ;)

Hamish

[Kingofmyrrh]

I believe that there was actually a smith called murasame

村雨

I realize that `same` is quite an unusual reading for rain but it`s by no means unique. There`s also 春雨 harusame, and quite a bunch of other terms like that which seem to crop up with tedious regularity in poetry. However I have no idea about the legend :-)

[Eldritch Knight]

There is still a smith called masamune. The original was an Edo (I think) dynasty bladesmith, who made the finest blades for the Tokugawa. The line continues to the modern day, and you can still get masamune blades from the source.

[Eldritch Knight]

I erred - Masamune was actually a Kamakura era smith (13th century), while Muramasa was a Muromachi era smith (16th century). Masamune was the enlightened smith who followed the correct path to making swords (and thus had blades that were elegant and brought peace and honor), while Muramasa didn't completely understand the importance of the blade and, reputedly, crafted blades that craved blood and brought nothing but death.

[Caleb]

You had me all exited. I thaught you were talking about chrono trigger (video game). I think that the masamune is the "good" or light sword and the other is the evil sword. Im not willing to bet on it though. Read it somewhere when I was doing a school report

[bluemax_1]

There are 3 names to take into account here. Masamune, Murasame, and Muramasa.

Masamune of Soshu is perhaps the most famous Japanese swordsmith, and yes it was the Kamakuran period which is also sometimes considered the height of Japanese swordsmithing. His swords used a seven-piece construction with the fish-belly tang and are very-highly prized by collectors, although there are a few other swordsmiths whose swords command even higher prices.

There has been more than one swordsmith named Muramasa but the famous Muramasa was actually a student of Masamune's in the art of swordsmithing and his swords were technically every bit as good as Masamune's but if you believe that swords can have a soul, or take on the characteristics of the smith who forged it, supposedly Muramasa's swords brought nothing but violence, death, destruction and tragedy.

Murasame was also a reknowned swordsmith who forged swords as someone already mentioned, for the Tokugawa empire and his swords are also well sought after.

[jodonnell]

To clarify, the common anime/video game occurrence of naming a particular weapon Masamune, Murasame, or Muramasa is incorrect. These terms should only apply to the smiths (although I suppose using the indefinite article, eg. "that is a fine Masamune" might not be wrong.)

Also, I remember reading that Muramasa's blades were considered the bane of the Tokugawa family. I think it was something like Ieyasu Tokugawa accidentally injured himself with a Muramasa, and one of his relatives was killed by a Muramasa. Not totally sure on the veracity of these claims but they make for an interesting anecdote.

James

[ben-no-suke]

The Masamune was the calm one and the Murasame was the violent one. But really I think it would depend on the fighter.

[Dai Tsuwamono]

My apologies for raising the corpse of an old, dead thread, but I have been investigating this matter and wish to share my observations.

1. Swordsmiths Masamune and Muramasa did not live during the same span of time. Muramasa did, however, admire Masamune's work, and he sought to emulate it.

2. Murasame is not a swordmaker of legend. It seems that, as Muramasa wished to be a weaponcrafter of Masamune's calibre, the name given to his swords is a hybridisation of his and Masamune's names. I could not locate any indication that anyone had conjectured this before, albeit perfectly sensible, reasonable, and logical.

3. Parallel to all works of art, swords can be referred to by the name of the man who created them. A work of Art by Leonardo DaVinci is called "a DaVinci", thus a sword of Masamune's construction can be called "a Masamune".

[SirFingerLickin]

As another game geek, these swords also made appearances in Final Fantasy Tactics:
"Masamune" -- Beautifully designed sword and case. Masterpiece of a famous sword maker.

"Muramasa" -- Peculiar sword that sucks large amounts of blood.

"Murasame" -- A peculiar sword. Causes much blood shed in battle with its sharp edge.

The powers granted to samurai in Final Fantasy Tactics were called 'Draw Out' skills where the samurai would draw out the spirit of the katana to use a special power. I beleieve the Masamune was a curative power, while Muramasa and Murasame were offensive powers.

Just thought I'd interject this for my fellow gamer geeks.