Quick Draw?

[ZrJn89]

In samurai x (anime) if u've seen it, the main characters art is based on hiten mitsurugi ryu which he uses the quick draw. I was wondering is their actually an art called hiten that uses the quick draw as its foundation, if their isn't, is their any form of kenjutsu that uses this method as its laid out foundation. I haven't taken any classes in kenjutsu and kendo, but i kno the alot of the history of the samurai. So if any of u guys could give me some imput,

[hyouriittai]

In samurai x (anime) if u've seen it, the main characters art is based on hiten mitsurugi ryu which he uses the quick draw. I was wondering is their actually an art called hiten that uses the quick draw as its foundation, if their isn't, is their any form of kenjutsu that uses this method as its laid out foundation. I haven't taken any classes in kenjutsu and kendo, but i kno the alot of the history of the samurai. So if any of u guys could give me some imput,

Quickdraw McGraw?

Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu is a fictional ryuha. The 'quickdraw' that I think is described in the cartoon is battojutsu. From what I hear, batto and iai are similar in description, but I'm not sure what the underlying differences are.

[xvikingx]

ZrJn89,

Here is what happens when you "quick draw" : http://www.tsuki-kage.com/darwin.html
Read the article about the batto-do demo, towards the end. It is best not to apply what you have learned from anime to kendo (or any other budo for that matter).

[Kenshin Himura]

The Technique your talking about is Battou Jutsu, wich is extremealy hard to actually do well. I've done it at an amature level, seeing I don't have the space inside to do it with my reverse blade katana. Its an attack where you stand in a stance with your right leg forward, left leg back, and step 3 times, then draw and slash. You have to keep your mind off of the sword hitting you though or you can't do it right. Anyways, if you do if its harsh on your arm, my elbow ached a bit after doing so, so did my wrist, because its not easy for when I do it (I'm only 14. I'm not in any kendo class, just marial arts, but I know how to do it from studying) it usually is harder to do then other things. After a while you may get used to it, but you have to study alot about Samurai X, Kenshin, and his style if you want to succed. It works if you do it right, trust me. ^^x I think you'll be happy with your results if you do well, that you will.

one more thing

BE EXTREMALY CAREFUL!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!

[ZrJn89]

ZrJn89,

Here is what happens when you "quick draw" : http://www.tsuki-kage.com/darwin.html
Read the article about the batto-do demo, towards the end. It is best not to apply what you have learned from anime to kendo (or any other budo for that matter).
thanks for ur imput, i must admit that was pretty stupid of the so called "master" i was just curious if any art like that existed at all or something similar. anyhow thanks for the warning.

[xvikingx]

thanks for ur imput, i must admit that was pretty stupid of the so called "master" i was just curious if any art like that existed at all or something similar. anyhow thanks for the warning.

I would hold my tongue if I were you. You don't know this guy or batto-do for that matter, yet you call him stupid. It is an unfortunate accident that occured do to hastiness. The man is obviously aware of the mistake he made and has paid his dues. Yes, batto-do is very real. I guess you didn't bother to read any further about Toyama-ryu or the ZNBR. I was hoping facts with historical value could become a bigger influece than "Ruroni Kenshi".

Oh and Kenshin Himura,
Maybe you could indulge us and tell us what the difference between batto-do and batto-jutsu is? And I sincerely hope you are joking about studying "Samurai X".
What a ridiculous name... Oooh he's got a cross-shaped scar, let's call him "X".. NO! "Samurai X". Cause he is a samurai to the X-treme.
I can understand if this anime has sparked your intrerest in budo but please don't take these cartoons too seriously. Please.

[Kenshin Himura]

Oh and Kenshin Himura,
Maybe you could indulge us and tell us what the difference between batto-do and batto-jutsu is? And I sincerely hope you are joking about studying "Samurai X".
What a ridiculous name... Oooh he's got a cross-shaped scar, let's call him "X".. NO! "Samurai X". Cause he is a samurai to the X-treme.
I can understand if this anime has sparked your intrerest in budo but please don't take these cartoons too seriously. Please.Well actually during the summer I found it interesting to actually look into it. no I didnt print out 50 page packets and study it deeply... What I did was look up hot his techniques related to ones that are possible in real life, and also i looked up a bit of history about it. *shrugs* I just find it interesting. Also, for Batto-do and Battou-Jutsu, theres.. Well i need to look deeply into it but I think theres only a slight difference in it to make it better, since the Battou-Jutsu i know of is an older version (and also an anime one) but the anime was only the base of my inspiration. *shurgs* anyways forget it.

oh and also

ehe.. theres alot more behind Kenshin in the anime and they dont call him Samurai X. ^^x' his name is Shinta Himura, his family died of Cholera when he was only about 4. A swordsman of the Hiten-.. oh forget it.. ^^x' ehe.. I'm only 14... I have the right to be like this!!!! lol

[ZrJn89]

I would hold my tongue if I were you. You don't know this guy or batto-do for that matter, yet you call him stupid. It is an unfortunate accident that occured do to hastiness. The man is obviously aware of the mistake he made and has paid his dues. Yes, batto-do is very real. I guess you didn't bother to read any further about Toyama-ryu or the ZNBR. I was hoping facts with historical value could become a bigger influece than "Ruroni Kenshi".

Oh and Kenshin Himura,
Maybe you could indulge us and tell us what the difference between batto-do and batto-jutsu is? And I sincerely hope you are joking about studying "Samurai X".
What a ridiculous name... Oooh he's got a cross-shaped scar, let's call him "X".. NO! "Samurai X". Cause he is a samurai to the X-treme.
I can understand if this anime has sparked your intrerest in budo but please don't take these cartoons too seriously. Please.


hmmm i should apologize if i've offended u but, i've never said Rurouni Kenshin was ever my inspiration, i only asked if their was an art that was similar to it. also ur rite that i shouldn't judge that person because of a mistake he made, especiallly when i don't know him, my apologies for that also. again thank u for warning me about practicing such things without proper instruction.

[xvikingx]

Also, for Batto-do and Battou-Jutsu, theres.. Well i need to look deeply into it but I think theres only a slight difference in it to make it better, since the Battou-Jutsu i know of is an older version (and also an anime one) but the anime was only the base of my inspiration. *shurgs* anyways forget it.
O.k. I'll forget it.

ehe.. theres alot more behind Kenshin in the anime and they dont call him Samurai X. ^^x' his name is Shinta Himura, his family died of Cholera when he was only about 4. A swordsman of the Hiten-.. oh forget it.. ^^x' ehe.. I'm only 14... I have the right to be like this!!!! lol
I know the premise behind "Rurouni Kenshin". At 14 you should be able to distinguish the difference between reality and cartoons. His sword techniques are not real. You are going to hurt yourself, or worse, someone else by imitating them.

ZrJn89,
No need to be so apologetic. I don't mean to sound so harsh; that's just me. Anyways, I was just hoping to kind of point you in the right direction. Many people take up kendo (or iaido or whatever) because they have a certain image of it brought on by a movie/ manga/ anime. Usually these people quit after they find out it is nothing like it was shown in that movie/ manga/ anime.
There is a serious bastardization of Japanese culture in western nations, that is perpetuated by people who like to tell others what they "know" about Japan. For example: If you check out any of the threads regarding Miyamoto Musashi, you will see that many people state "facts" that they learned about him from reading the fictional novel Musashi, by Eiji Yoshikawa. Also our local, self-taught battou expert above, had encouraged you to practice imaginary techniques created for an action cartoon. Unbelievably irresponsible! I forgot, he's only 14; he has the right to act like a fool.

[Kenshin Himura]

oh ha ha. I have the right to dream and experiment. Sheesh.. anyways I never try to do the moves.. I mean I dont go running around shouting "HITEN MITSURUGI STYLE RYU TSUI SEN!!!" then jump up and slash some thing in half. What I do is uaully look at WHAT IT WAS BASED ON. Well.. ok, maybe by the way I sounded it did seem like I did that.. anyways.. no need to be so harsh, you could at least be nice and say "Its not a good idea to study them. People have tried and gotte hurt. I suggest trying this by this: *link or something or a title of a book* to help you learn." *shrugs* well it doesnt matter. Well if I never looked into the anime I would never have learned about what Iaido is by now.. I heard on the anime Battou Jutsu and drawing the sword..then looked it up.. then found that what I was looking to learn was Iaido. Anyways,

where the guy cut off his thumb in the quick draw (Ama Kakeru Ryu No Hirameki) that was because his sheath SPLIT AT THE END. I'm using a reverse blade, so its less likeley that the sheath will split and ALSO I cant cut my hand off if it does because the blade is on the other side.

Well since I'm using a reverse blade katana, the most I can do is break a bone in my hand, or get it flung into my wall.. I never do this near somebody.. ^^x' I'm careful.. VERY.. careful.. when I feel something wrong or different I stop immediateley. Well I gtg, I'll be back later.

[xvikingx]

YAWN :tired:

[Kenshin Himura]

YAWN :tired:Yawn about what? I'm not trying to brag or entertain you. I'm just telling you somnething as an informative. *shrugs* Why are you acting like this? Theres has to be a reason for your rudeness.

[Kenshin Himura]

ZrJn89,

Here is what happens when you "quick draw" : http://www.tsuki-kage.com/darwin.html
Read the article about the batto-do demo, towards the end. It is best not to apply what you have learned from anime to kendo (or any other budo for that matter).Also, this is NOT what happens when you do the quick draw. If you actually read the thing, it said the sheat split at the end, so it cut his thumb off. If the sheath didnt split it wouldnt have happened. *shrugs* But its still possible that an injury could happen while doing this. When I've tried it, I hyperextended my elbow slightly.. or.. something, but it hurt for a bit. also, if you dont have a good grip of the sword either A: somebody's going to have a nice gash/stab in them or B: somebody's going to have a sword in thier wall
lol

another thing. No, there is no official Hiten Mitsurugi sword style. There is Batto-d and Iai-do, wich are simalar to what some of Kenshin's attacks are based on. *shrugs* from what I've learned they are based of Kenjutsu, Battou-jutsu (Iaido/Batto-do), and Ninjitsu.. i think.. oh well, dont follow anime though. Try other ways.. that can also be close.. lol
anyways, thats all I have to say for now.

[xvikingx]

The yawn is for a little boy who keeps blathering on about "facts" he has learned from a cartoon. A little boy who thinks he is Kenshin. A little boy who still can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality.

Also, this is NOT what happens when you do the quick draw. If you actually read the thing, it said the sheat split at the end, so it cut his thumb off. If the sheath didnt split it wouldnt have happened.
You like being wrong don't you? The point that you have failed to grasp time and time again, is that if this man had not rushed things he would not have split his saya and sever his own thumb. You blame the saya for splitting. Maybe next you will blame the the sword for being sharp or his flesh for being weaker than steal.
This mistake was made by an experienced man, who was flown to L.A. My point is if a man with years of experience and knowledge can accidentally cut his own thumb off demonstrating a technique he has (probably) done a thousand times over, a little boy imitating a cartoon has a very good chance of hurting himself or others. And don't give me any more "kenshin reverse blade" BS.

There is Batto-d and Iai-do, wich are simalar to what some of Kenshin's attacks are based on. *shrugs* from what I've learned they are based of Kenjutsu, Battou-jutsu (Iaido/Batto-do), and Ninjitsu.. i think.. oh well, dont follow anime though.
Oh really?! What an astute observation! *I have noticed your reading comprehesion skills are a bit subpar, so I will point out the sarcasm for you.* That is like saying a sniper has based his techniques on sharp shooting. You don't even know what those words mean! You keep regurgitating crap you learn from a cartoon!
Save your *shrug*s and your "samurai x" smiley faces for your website and wanker fan-boys. This site is for people who study and want to learn about budo. We already have our fair share of psychos who think they are samurai.

[Kenshin Himura]

You may think what you want but people who dont have respect for others don't deserve to do kendo. I'm not a little boy, the "faces" I make are just something I've become accustomed to. And please, you shouldt judge others by common (or.. multiple) mistaked made in a FORUM. I dont base my life off this anime.
Its ok to dream, isnt it? I go throuigh things step by step and when I see something that doesnt work, I stop, and move on. I dont try to force it to work. And i belive my readong comprehension skills are fine for life. ^^x I mean sure, maybe I cant convince you to instead of critisize and insult me to instead tell me in a kinder matter. And I know what sarcasm is. And what about the kenshin reverse blade? *shrugs* first of all its not a Kenshiny sword... I could care less if it had the signature of the maker on it.. I'd probobly end up sanding it off.. I only got it because I like swords like this. This isnt much to get in a fight over..

you could at least say "You shouldnt attempt to imatate a fictional character, it could lead to injury. If you want to try something you should get an instructor to show you something to learn instead of doing things on your own. We don't need another hurt swordsman (or trainee or whatever.)" instead of going "YAWN -.-"

If you've read Musashi's "The Book of Five Rings" you would have learned that a swordsman must learn to respect others, even his enemys. (yes, I read this book. my instructor reccomended it to me)
So maye we can resolve this in a civil manner?

[Kenshin Himura]

Is it me or are you against people of a mature age who wish to study the way of the samurai or swordsman?... To me every time somebody tried to get a discussion or trys to get a point or anything, if your there, you insult them. Thats disrespectful. No swordsman should be disrespectful, especially to children and elders. What if I was a great samurai master and you were trying to proove a point and I kept saying "your childish, we dont need a psycho person like you swinging a sword around so go away." even if you had the freedom of speech... The least I would do is discuss with you about it.. I wouldnt be disrespectul.. I wouldnt insult you.. and if I have I'm sorry for it.. I'm just trying to make a point.. and if you find things wrong in my sayings.. Then you could kindly justify yourself.. maybe say "If your into Kendo and swordsmanship as much as you say, you could try going to somebody you know who knows it, and maybe ask them about it. But personally I dont think trying something from an anime is a great idea.. Mayube if you look into it more, you can see where iut could fail or injure others or yourself.. Even if you have the right protection, you can still get hurt."
I'm just trying to get it so we dont argue about it.. I can understand your point about not following an anime, but.. I was just seeing if there was anything else around it.

[Kenshin Himura]

Ah, I see how the "masteR" cut off his thumb too, doing the quick draw.

http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?p=30966#post30966

that should explain it if you read how he cut his thumb off, and if you know how to unsheath a sword like that.. *shrugs* lol

[mingshi]

Mr Harstad, I think you can just simply sit back and chill.

My brother is 14. We watch Ruronin Kenshin together. We have bokuto and an iaito at home. He can swing the swords around at home without hurting himself.

Although this varies from person to person... judging by the 20+ post of this Kenshin Himura from Connecticut... well son, I think you should read some history books instead. And you'd better take some English classes.

Now start with this one:
http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0312/feature5/index.html

[Kenshin Himura]

Mr Harstad, I think you can just simply sit back and chill.

My brother is 14. We watch Ruronin Kenshin together. We have bokuto and an iaito at home. He can swing the swords around at home without hurting himself.

Although this varies from person to person... judging by the 20+ post of this Kenshin Himura from Connecticut... well son, I think you should read some history books instead. And you'd better take some English classes.

Now start with this one:
http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0312/feature5/index.html
good idea.. ^^x' ehe. Well, I saw some history books in the library at the school I go too about japan history.. I'll probobly check those out and read em. Now, whats this about having a bokuto and iaito at home?

[Gohanssj]

I dont think anyone can be "too old" to learn any ways of bushido or kendo ect. it just depends on the person, if you just want to learn cause youve been watching too many anime cartoons or movies, you will loose interest in it , its somthing for people who feel a connection between them and the art, you dont need to be a certain age to learn, just have to have a certain state of mind.

[Kenshin Himura]

I dont think anyone can be "too old" to learn any ways of bushido or kendo ect. it just depends on the person, if you just want to learn cause youve been watching too many anime cartoons or movies, you will loose interest in it , its somthing for people who feel a connection between them and the art, you dont need to be a certain age to learn, just have to have a certain state of mind.
I don't like it because of the anime. You can go back into the past, destroy my TV, get rid of Rurouni kenshin, and come back ,and I'll still be here, just not arguing over the quick draw. lol I like kendo, martial arts, Iaido/Batto-do, and stuff like this. *shrugs* lol. Anyways, I dont base my life of of an anime or cartoon. If it seemed like it, then sorry ^^x'
hm.. now.. to another subject!

Well, when I do practice, sometimes I slow down or weaken myself before hitting... almost as if I'm afraid to attack...

Any good ways to overcome this?

[xvikingx]

Mr Harstad, I think you can just simply sit back and chill.
These words would have more meaning if they didn't come from the tantrum queen herself. I have seen you throw a fit because someone had bad grammar.

However, I will appologize on my own accord. I feel there was far more insult than encouragement in what I wrote (to say the least). I stand by what I said, but I hope my words don't deter you from pursuing kendo (or whatever you are interested in). That was not my intent. Besides most kendoka are much nicer than me.

[ALI G]

The yawn is for a little boy who keeps blathering on about "facts" he has learned from a cartoon. A little boy who thinks he is Kenshin. A little boy who still can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality.

Me hopez dat hiz momz & popz haz good insurancez when he cutz da finga or hiz toez offz......

Likez my homey da rock, deez kenshin wannabeez shud know der rolez & shut der mouthz.....

[Kenshin Himura]

These words would have more meaning if they didn't come from the tantrum queen herself. I have seen you throw a fit because someone had bad grammar.

However, I will appologize on my own accord. I feel there was far more insult than encouragement in what I wrote (to say the least). I stand by what I said, but I hope my words don't deter you from pursuing kendo (or whatever you are interested in). That was not my intent. Besides most kendoka are much nicer than me.I understand. Its ok, and also I'm sorry for being stubborn myself. ^^x' I didnt really mean to... Anyways the little argument actually taught me something about my liking+reason for doing/wanting to join Kendo/Iaido/etc... Its not at all because of the anime... I loved this before I even liked anime.. i've always been into this, and also I like swords better than guns.. (and also the fact that I suck with a gun... i cant even hit an elephant with a shotgun or any gun without doing something wrong or flinching). Besides. ^^x' It wasnt really that big of an argument as it seemed... Anyways, sorry again for the trouble.

[Kenshin Himura]

The Technique your talking about is Battou Jutsu, wich is extremealy hard to actually do well. I've done it at an amature level, seeing I don't have the space inside to do it with my reverse blade katana. Its an attack where you stand in a stance with your right leg forward, left leg back, and step 3 times, then draw and slash. You have to keep your mind off of the sword hitting you though or you can't do it right. Anyways, if you do if its harsh on your arm, my elbow ached a bit after doing so, so did my wrist, because its not easy for when I do it (I'm only 14. I'm not in any kendo class, just marial arts, but I know how to do it from studying) it usually is harder to do then other things. After a while you may get used to it, but you have to study alot about Samurai X, Kenshin, and his style if you want to succed. It works if you do it right, trust me. ^^x I think you'll be happy with your results if you do well, that you will.

one more thing

BE EXTREMALY CAREFUL!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!
wow.. I really did sound that annoying.. o.ox sorry......

[Kenshin Himura]

I would hold my tongue if I were you. You don't know this guy or batto-do for that matter, yet you call him stupid. It is an unfortunate accident that occured do to hastiness. The man is obviously aware of the mistake he made and has paid his dues. Yes, batto-do is very real. I guess you didn't bother to read any further about Toyama-ryu or the ZNBR. I was hoping facts with historical value could become a bigger influece than "Ruroni Kenshi".

Oh and Kenshin Himura,
Maybe you could indulge us and tell us what the difference between batto-do and batto-jutsu is? And I sincerely hope you are joking about studying "Samurai X".
What a ridiculous name... Oooh he's got a cross-shaped scar, let's call him "X".. NO! "Samurai X". Cause he is a samurai to the X-treme.
I can understand if this anime has sparked your intrerest in budo but please don't take these cartoons too seriously. Please.and you are right... you did stay pretty calm at first.. except. making fun of the Samurai X part.. ^^x' maybe that sparked my anger.. sorry again.. lol *looks at the insult* although the anime was named Samurai X, not the character.. the character is Kenshin..lol ^^x'j/k I wont bother. heheheh

[Ren Blade]

I didn't think there was such thing as a reverse bladed sword and that such a sword was just made up for the Kenshin amine.

And if a reverse blade sword is actually made and exists, when returning the sword to the saya, you would be cutting up the open end of it since it's the backside of Katana the touches as you slide it.

Also in regards to the cartoon's reverse bladed sword, what boggles me is if Kenshin didn't want to kill anyone anymore, then why have a sharp edge on his blade at all?

[Kenshin Himura]

I didn't think there was such thing as a reverse bladed sword and that such a sword was just made up for the Kenshin amine.

And if a reverse blade sword is actually made and exists, when returning the sword to the saya, you would be cutting up the open end of it since it's the backside of Katana the touches as you slide it.

Also in regards to the cartoon's reverse bladed sword, what boggles me is if Kenshin didn't want to kill anyone anymore, then why have a sharp edge on his blade at all?
true. I've got a few pictures of me with my reverse blade sword I'll try and get onto my cpu as soon as my mom gets the pictures developed.. lol
Well, the one I got is from knightsedge.com
under ritter steel samurai blades or somethin like that
$186
not bad for how I think it is.. *shrugs* It keeps me content. ^^x lol

[ALI G]

true. I've got a few pictures of me with my reverse blade sword I'll try and get onto my cpu as soon as my mom gets the pictures developed.. lol
Well, the one I got is from knightsedge.com
under ritter steel samurai blades or somethin like that
$186
not bad for how I think it is.. *shrugs* It keeps me content. ^^x lol

Makez surez youz also pozt da pickchaz of youz cuttingz youz fingas and toez 2.......

[Kenshin Himura]

Makez surez youz also pozt da pickchaz of youz cuttingz youz fingas and toez 2.......I'd be glad to say I have all 10 fingers and all 10 toes (well technically thumbs arent fingers...) Hey guess who this is!

http://angelfire.com/psy/kenshinhimura/images/swords.jpg
me ^^x lol the katana with the blue hilt is the cheap stainless steel crappy one, and the other sword is my reverse blade katana.

[ALI G]

I'd be glad to say I have all 10 fingers and all 10 toes (well technically thumbs arent fingers...) Hey guess who this is!

http://angelfire.com/psy/kenshinhimura/images/swords.jpg
me ^^x lol the katana with the blue hilt is the cheap stainless steel crappy one, and the other sword is my reverse blade katana.

All Iz gotta sez iz........4-K!!!!!!

Wez gotz 4-K Boy herez......bahahahahaha

[ZrJn89]

O.k. I'll forget it.

I know the premise behind "Rurouni Kenshin". At 14 you should be able to distinguish the difference between reality and cartoons. His sword techniques are not real. You are going to hurt yourself, or worse, someone else by imitating them.

ZrJn89,
No need to be so apologetic. I don't mean to sound so harsh; that's just me. Anyways, I was just hoping to kind of point you in the right direction. Many people take up kendo (or iaido or whatever) because they have a certain image of it brought on by a movie/ manga/ anime. Usually these people quit after they find out it is nothing like it was shown in that movie/ manga/ anime.
There is a serious bastardization of Japanese culture in western nations, that is perpetuated by people who like to tell others what they "know" about Japan. For example: If you check out any of the threads regarding Miyamoto Musashi, you will see that many people state "facts" that they learned about him from reading the fictional novel Musashi, by Eiji Yoshikawa. Also our local, self-taught battou expert above, had encouraged you to practice imaginary techniques created for an action cartoon. Unbelievably irresponsible! I forgot, he's only 14; he has the right to act like a fool.
i understand ur point and i thank u for it, i'm also glad that u and kenshin himura have both settled ur arguments.

[Kenshin Himura]

All Iz gotta sez iz........4-K!!!!!!

Wez gotz 4-K Boy herez......bahahahahaha
4-k?... wha????????

[ALI G]

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12982&highlight=krappy%2Bkarate%2Bkatana%2Bkamae

[Kenshin Himura]

hey! dont think I'm a 4k! its when I just got a new sword for x-mas and my parents wanted me to do some posey thing.. to take a picture of.. so I did that! lol

[Khabbi]

If your parents told u to jump of a bridge , would u do it !?!?!

[Hattori Hanzo]

Oh my......makes you wonder if those are the kind of people that pose in a mirror to look mean.

[Ren Blade]

hey! dont think I'm a 4k! its when I just got a new sword for x-mas and my parents wanted me to do some posey thing.. to take a picture of.. so I did that! lolThis pose would've been better for something showy.
http://hkfanatic.com/jet/movies/fsy2/images/fong_sai_yuk_2_dvd_quality13.jpg

[Kenshin Himura]

.. if my parents told me to jump off a bridge I'd say "Screw you!" lol I'm not that crazy... and no I dont make mean looks into a mirror.. thats just stupid.. unless you have a cause for it.. wich I doubt. lol *shrugs*

[Bayushi-Shoju]

i had my friend pose for a picture, then after wards i went in and Drew and X on his cheek lol.
He was like NOOO ive been Tainted lol
Doofus
Kenshi Smurf

[Kenshin Himura]

lol "Hey its the Battousai! *rips the picture* hahah I killed the Battousai!"

[Bayushi-Shoju]

lol The funny thing is he wasnt holding a Katana.... He was holding my Green Destiny Sword. I tried to put the picture on here but it says its not valid. Bah ohwell i guess ill go watch Trust and betrayl again. I love that sceen where he runs up to those guys on the steps and its over in like 3 seconds. pretty cool. And not that impossible i might add, *Puts on Armor and prepares for attack by other members lol.
"Who are you?!" "You wont be alive long enough to remember my name"
but just incase
Kenshi Smurf

[Kenshin Himura]

lol ooh armor! now were you saying the "quick draw' was impossible or the 3 second kill? *shrugs* those could be possible with sheer luck. also when I took a look at the quick draw technique, I noticed one biiiiiig flaw in it.. *hops back and stabs* hahaah you died! It leaves no protection to you. if you miss you die basically. lol

[Maasharu]

Before this goes much further, most “do” arts are given that name because of the transitional age of the Edo period. Martial arts became much more structured and ceremonial and were far less combat oriented. Battou jutsu is the pretasesor of iaijutsu – which transitioned into Iaido. Battou jutsu was nearly extinct by the Edo period so it simply wasn’t popular enough to become a Do since Iaijutsyu had all but replaced it at the time.

This is seen in many martial arts of the period. Kenjutsu and Kendo – Do being because the sport of Kendo itself was created post Edo period. Aikibujutsu and Aikido. These are just a few examples, I have been told that jujutsu and judo were one system and a few teachers refused to change their curriculum. Though I can’t substantiate that so don’t quote me on it.

As for what Battou jutsu is or is not: all Iaido has origins in Battou Jutsu. So to know what Battou Jutsu is – study Iaido and imagine the movements far more aggressive and realistic rather than ceremonial. Hope that clears a few things up.


~Maasharu

[Ren Blade]

Kenshin, are you teaching yourself how to use the Katana? You should see if your parents can enroll you in a school that can show you how to properly use a Katana. There are little details on good sword using that you may not have or may never will figure out on your own. It's those details that could make you a better swordsman.

[Bayushi-Shoju]

Yes and then you could Challenge xvikingx to a duel for his Dishonoring you as he did. But offer him the chance to commit Seppuku instead of a duel, if he is a coward and says no, then you duel. :) I think it will work :wink:
Kenshi Smurf

[crazysnurf]

hey kenshin whered ya get a reverse blade katana?

[Kenshin Himura]

http://www.knightsedge.com/
its for about $200
its full tang
functional
Just take good care of it, mine tarnished a bit.

[ALI G]

hey! dont think I'm a 4k! its when I just got a new sword for x-mas and my parents wanted me to do some posey thing.. to take a picture of.. so I did that! lol

one bowl haircutz complimentz of momz- $0
one Black Ninja outfitz - $30
two shopping mall "Katanaz" - $200

Your sonz 4K Pickcha on da intanet....Pricelezz....

[Bayushi-Shoju]

$30 !!!! Sweet whered you get yours? i want one

Kenshi Smurf

[Kenshin Himura]

What the hell is your problem? Ok first of all thats my NORMAL HAIR. Second, THATS MY NORMAL CLOTHES!!! I WEAR ALL BLACK!!! Third, those arent shopping mall katanas. One is a hand-made reverse blade katana, and the other is a katana from a martial arts magazine that my girlfriend got me when we were dating. I'm not a 4k. That was just a stance I did for ha ha's. You shouldnt be so rude to others, its disrespectful, and a bad thing to do, especially if your a swordsman or something. And if your not, then why are you even here?

[Kenshin Himura]

*huff puff* lol j/k. *calm* Well the two swords add up to over $300 actually.. they arent mall sowrds either. The sakabatou (reverse blade katana) is functional, and full tang. The black outfit is my normal clothing.. its just a black long sleeve shirt and baggyish black zip-off pants.. I have more clothes too lol duh. And I'm not a 4k. 4k are the guys who constantly show off like "uhg! *rippin biceps* look at me! URR! *poses constantly*" lol or stupid people and I'm not stupid.

[Bayushi-Shoju]

Ali G has no honor hes a worthless Ronin who never had a Lord because no Diamyo would take him in... even as Gun Fodder

[Ren Blade]

How are you sheathing your reverse blade Katana? With the sharp edge being on the back, you definitely can't slide the back of the blade against your fingers, since it's sharp, the standard way that people who train traditional Japanese sword do.

http://www.aikido-l.org/seminars/2000_ws/graphics/akiy/ws_47.jpg

http://www.aikido-l.org/seminars/2000_ws/graphics/akiy/ws_50.jpg

Just to avoid having anyone guess, I'm not in either of the pics in the above links. I'm Chinese. :wink: Just using the pics for reference for sheathing.

[Kenshin Himura]

When I sheath instead of using my fingers/hand as a guide, I just slide it on the saya instead of from my fingers. *shrugs* lol

[Ren Blade]

Isn't that cutting up and ruining your saya?

Also where are you learning techniques or stances for Katana using from?

[Kenshin Himura]

I don't go to a school. I learn by people who know these things who'll show me these things. I didnt know how to even carry a katana right before, now I do know how. And the sheathing I do doesnt neccisarily ruin the saya, but since I normally use a reverse blade katana, it does put a scratch in the saya when I sheath it (only on the top part of it, and its a wooden saya). *shrugs* oh well. At least I'm not running around doing random katas I think I know. lol I only practice VERY simple things. lol

[Kaoru]

The Technique your talking about is Battou Jutsu, wich is extremealy hard to actually do well. I've done it at an amature level, seeing I don't have the space inside to do it with my reverse blade katana. Its an attack where you stand in a stance with your right leg forward, left leg back, and step 3 times, then draw and slash. You have to keep your mind off of the sword hitting you though or you can't do it right. Anyways, if you do if its harsh on your arm, my elbow ached a bit after doing so, so did my wrist, because its not easy for when I do it (I'm only 14. I'm not in any kendo class, just marial arts, but I know how to do it from studying) it usually is harder to do then other things. After a while you may get used to it, but you have to study alot about Samurai X, Kenshin, and his style if you want to succed. It works if you do it right, trust me. ^^x I think you'll be happy with your results if you do well, that you will.

one more thing

BE EXTREMALY CAREFUL!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!

People who have NO training in Iaido(battojutsu) or any Japanese sword art, should never give out advice like this.

What you described, is not how it is done anyway. And, Kenshin's "style" is fake. Don't confuse anime with the real thing, which you haven't seen yet.

ZrJn89-san, don't listen to him. He doesn't know anything yet, and has never set foot in a real dojo. Sorry, but if you haven't been taught by a real sensei, you have no business trying to tell someone how, Kenshin-san.

And, stop using that reverse blade sword. It's for the wall, not for real use.

Kaoru

[Kenshin Himura]

........... you really think.. what I bought.. was really meant for the wall?.. Its a FUNCTIONAL SWORD. UHG! GOD DAMNIT!!! Read the other post I made somewheres and then take note to one part in it: "Screw all the lasts posts I've made".
SCREW THAT POST YOU LOOKED AT! SCREW IT ALL!!!!!!... ^^x' ehe... bad day......

[jodonnell]

Reverse blades are most certainly meant for the wall. I don't claim to be some kendo/iaido guru, but so far a consistent theme I've noted in (real, official, not cinematic/anime/etc) sword arts is that the sharp pointy bits point at your opponent, and the safe thick flat part stays pointed at you. I can't imagine any bushi or swordsmith ever thinking to themeselves, "Ken/Iai-jutsu/do isn't dangerous enough. How about I get xtreme and have the dangerous end on my side?

Additionally, how are you going to call a sword with the sharp end on the wrong side functional? Functional? What exactly is it's function? I guess sickles have the sharp side on the inner curve; perhaps your reverse blade sword would be excellent for agriculture. If you have a live blade that cannot perform tameshigirii (please don't try this, especially because you would be cutting with the blunt end) then it isn't functional.


And the sheathing I do doesnt neccisarily ruin the saya, but since I normally use a reverse blade katana, it does put a scratch in the saya when I sheath it (only on the top part of it, and its a wooden saya).
That is damaging, otherwise called ruining, your saya. Not to mention you could seriously injure the webbing between your thumb and forefinger, or your thumb.


At least I'm not running around doing random katas I think I know. lol I only practice VERY simple things.
You are practicing simple things you don't know. Just because its simple doesn't mean it isn't dangerous. Kendoka don't ever use live blades till what, godan? Rokudan? And even then, that's only for testing (if I recall correctly.) The thought of a 14 year old who has never had any serious instruction in sword arts, practicing with a (likely cheaply made) live blade, with the sharp end on the inner curve, is unbelievably dangerous and foolish. I suppose a good analogy would be giving a 14 year old kid a Raging Bull .357 revolver (more powerful than the Desert Eagle .50 AE if I recall,) but the grip on it is reversed, and when you hold the gun the barrel is pointing at your face. For your own sake, quit practicing with live blades. If you absolutely must practice a fictional ryu you saw in an anime, please perform it with a bokken or something you won't accidentally kill yourself with.

Cheers,

James

[Kaoru]

........... you really think.. what I bought.. was really meant for the wall?.. Its a FUNCTIONAL SWORD. UHG! GOD DAMNIT!!! Read the other post I made somewheres and then take note to one part in it: "Screw all the lasts posts I've made".
SCREW THAT POST YOU LOOKED AT! SCREW IT ALL!!!!!!... ^^x' ehe... bad day......

IT IS NOT A FUNCTIONAL SWORD. Yes, it is meant for the wall. You have NO training and NO KNOWLEDGE of swords at all. Go ask on E-Budo about that sword. I dare you. And, stop swearing.

To register:

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/register.php?action=signup

You must post using your real full name. It's a rule there. They will enforce it, too.

After you register, post about that sword here, in the swort arts forum. There are plenty of REAL JSA teachers there to tell you I am right:

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?forumid=16

To create a new thread, go to the top upper right hand corner of the page and click on the button that says "new thread."

Kaoru

[jodonnell]

It is quite functional, as a wall hanger :) As I mentioned in my previous post, it is certainly a good candidate for agricultural harvest, as just like a sickle, the blade is on the inner curve. Tameshiigiri on wheat fields? You betcha. Maybe you could even raise some money to go to a real dojo by mowing lawns in this way. :)

[Kenshin Himura]

...the sword I use is not cheap. ONe sword I have that I dont use is cheap though, and was made for show. Functional, for my other sword, meant that its sturdy and wont break. Theres a rule called respect that you have to follow if your a kenshi. I trust that if your a kenshi you should follow it. Don't jump to conclusions, and dont disrespect anybody, kenshi or not, no matter what age. Doesn't anybody follow these rules anymore?

[ALI G]

perhaps your reverse blade sword would be excellent for agriculture.

It surez iz!!!!! Itz excellentz 4 da hedge trimmingz.....

[Shiro]

People who have NO training in Iaido(battojutsu) or any Japanese sword art, should never give out advice like this.

What you described, is not how it is done anyway. And, Kenshin's "style" is fake. Don't confuse anime with the real thing, which you haven't seen yet.

ZrJn89-san, don't listen to him. He doesn't know anything yet, and has never set foot in a real dojo. Sorry, but if you haven't been taught by a real sensei, you have no business trying to tell someone how, Kenshin-san.

And, stop using that reverse blade sword. It's for the wall, not for real use.

Kaoru

I strongly agree with Kaoru there.
YOU say it's functional and YOU think you're learning those techniques the right way. If you're really into it get a bokken with a saya and go to a iaido dojo, that's the only way you'll really learn something about it.
You might really injure someone like that.

I really love Kenshin, but I don't like the idea of someone basing his 'techniques' on the hiten mitsurugi school........

http://www.knightsedge.com/swords/reverse-blade-sword.htm
And this looks very cheap looking to me!

[Kaoru]

...the sword I use is not cheap. ONe sword I have that I dont use is cheap though, and was made for show. Functional, for my other sword, meant that its sturdy and wont break. Theres a rule called respect that you have to follow if your a kenshi. I trust that if your a kenshi you should follow it. Don't jump to conclusions, and dont disrespect anybody, kenshi or not, no matter what age. Doesn't anybody follow these rules anymore?

I find it interesting that you will not go ask the people on e-budo, many of whom who have been training in Iaido and Kenjutsu for over 20 years. You, who are only 14, know more than they do?? Very interesting indeed. That sword is not a functional sword. Go ask them. See what the experts say.

Oh, and respect? It is respectful to take advice and help when it is given. and I just gave it above.

Kaoru

[jodonnell]

...the sword I use is not cheap. ONe sword I have that I dont use is cheap though, and was made for show. Functional, for my other sword, meant that its sturdy and wont break. Theres a rule called respect that you have to follow if your a kenshi. I trust that if your a kenshi you should follow it. Don't jump to conclusions, and dont disrespect anybody, kenshi or not, no matter what age. Doesn't anybody follow these rules anymore?Kenshin Himura, we are trying to be respectful of you as best as we can, but your insistence on practicing a fictional ryu, and believing an anime series is realistic in its swordplay, is quite exasperating. This is disrespecting the sword arts, by claiming knowledge (and in your first post, trying to spread it) of swordplay from a fictional anime series. Second, it is disrespecting yourself to believe that Rurouni Kenshin accurately represents real-life kendo. Thirdly, you are disrespecting others by trying to teach others this style, and by swearing repeatedly. I apologize if I am jumping to conclusions, but it seems you are indeed practicing swordplay based on something you saw from a cartoon show. I am trying to offer my respect to you by persuading you not to persue a risky habit that will almost certainly eventually lead to greivous injuries to yourself. If this is insulting to you, my apoligies.

Cheers,

James

[Kaoru]

I strongly agree with Kaoru there.
YOU say it's functional and YOU think you're learning those techniques the right way. If you're really into it get a bokken with a saya and go to a iaido dojo, that's the only way you'll really learn something about it.
You might really injure someone like that.

I really love Kenshin, but I don't like the idea of someone basing his 'techniques' on the hiten mitsurugi school........

http://www.knightsedge.com/swords/reverse-blade-sword.htm
And this looks very cheap looking to me!

Thank you Shiro-san.

That's because it IS a cheap sword, and they are liars to call it fully functional. Post this on e-budo and they will all die laughing at it. Not to be impolite, but it's the truth. Those things are dangerous!

Kaoru

[Kenshin Himura]

I didnt say I wanted to learn Hiten Mitsurugi. Its a fictional impossible fake Ryuu that nobody can do.

[jodonnell]

As this reverse blade katana is a real sword, great care should be taken as hitting someone could cause serious injury, even death! This is a real sword not a toy!It says as much on the description. This isn't a toy for playing at being Kenshin. While there isn't anything wrong with such indulgences (what kendoka hasn't struck a dashing pose in front of a mirror?) you are putting yourself at risk by using this. Please understand, we aren't telling you this out of spite. We're trying to prevent you from killing yourself, so maybe one day you will be able to visit a real dojo and practice the arts seriously with the rest of us.


After a while you may get used to it, but you have to study alot about Samurai X, Kenshin, and his style if you want to succed.
I didnt say I wanted to learn Hiten Mitsurugi. Its a fictional impossible fake Ryuu that nobody can do.
Please explain this. This may be jumping to conclusions, but if you suggest studying Kenshin and Samurai X, then it is most likely you are trying to learn his Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu.

Cheers,

James

[Kenshin Himura]

I said I wasnt trying to be Kenshin. He never existed. The style I said never existed. I dropped the idea of making my own style a day ago. CLEAR?.

[jodonnell]

I said I wasnt trying to be Kenshin. He never existed. The style I said never existed. I dropped the idea of making my own style a day ago. CLEAR?.You in fact did not clarify this; at least not on this thread. Please do not expect us to cross reference every post you make as you seem to make many of them. Additionally, please do not get angry at us for trying to keep you from hurting yourself.

Cheers,

James

[ALI G]

Likez dey seyz....

Itz all fun & gamez until some-1 losez an eye or in diss caze....youz luzerz a finga or toez or youz 4-K pickcha getz postedz on da intahnetz.....

[Dan Shea]

I seriously hope this kid doesn't end up losing a finger or worse.
Seeing the last couple of posts he's put up here is a bit worrisome. I would have hoped his parents had more sense than to give him a sharpened sword without any training or knowledge of how to use it.

It is irresponsible of his parents to do so and it reflects poorly on them for giving this kid the equivalent of a loaded gun.

Would you give a 14 year old a loaded weapon without any training and tell him to figure it out by watching anime films?

It is precisely behaviour like this that makes it increasingly difficult for people seriously studying Japanese Sword Arts or sword arts in general. All it takes is for a kid to go lop off his finger and we'll have have the concerned parents (where were they when he lopped of his finger?) screaming for tougher laws and restrictions on the JSA.

Kid if you're listening, go put that sword up on a wall hanger and wait until you're at least old enough to distinguish between fantasy and reality. Then find a reputable place to study if you're interested and find out what it is all about.

[miojine yahiko]

the charackter and styles are based on real ones and batto-jitsu is a frgotten sword art from the 1500s stick that in ya pipe and smoke it p.s.yo kenshin use a blunt carbon or folded steel sword with an alluminum scabbard and the back end of the scabbard can split {I speak from personal experience } so use the rev-blade as a wallhanger

[jodonnell]

"Based on" does not guarantee authenticity by any means. The video game "Soul Calibur 2" might be "based on" various martial arts, but I don't expect to make a big fiery cut like Mitsurugi any time soon. As for batto-jutsu, I was under the impression it was an alternate name for iaijutsu. Are they seperate arts or is it just a less modern name?

Cheers,

James

[xvikingx]

Yes James, iaijutsu and battojutsu are two different arts. And battojutsu is far from dead. You would be better off not listening to miojine yahiko, because it seems that he/she is not only ignorant but a jerk. Put that in you pipe and smoke it.
:wink:
James, check out: www.koryu.com for further information on older arts.

[jodonnell]

Ah, I see different ryu list themselves as either/or batto/iai (and not both,) but could you explain what differentiates the two? From what I understand, they are both centered around turning the draw/batto motion into an effective attack/parry to either gain the element of surprise, or to ward off an ambush. What is the actual difference between the two arts?

Cheers,

James

[xvikingx]

Hhhmmm.. Although interesting in learning iai, batto, or both I still do not know much about them. So I will give a very basic answer. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe battojutsu puts more emphisis on test cutting (tameshigiri), while iai is essential just kata. I am probably way off, so I recomend checking other threads. Also you can check out www.e-budo.com for more information.

[jodonnell]

Ah, interesting. Is the tameshiigiri performed starting with the sword sheathed, like iai kata? That would be pretty interesting to see. I always thought that the nukitsuke was only intended to wound/pressure the opponent, not kill. Either the tameshiigiri targets are thinner/lighter than typical tameshiigiri targets or these battojutsu practitioners have right arms like Popeye :)

James

[xvikingx]

Like I said, I don't know enough to teach about batto or iai. However I do know power has little to do with cutting; mechanics are key.

[Kaoru]

Yes James, iaijutsu and battojutsu are two different arts. And battojutsu is far from dead. You would be better off not listening to miojine yahiko, because it seems that he/she is not only ignorant but a jerk. Put that in you pipe and smoke it.
:wink:
James, check out: www.koryu.com for further information on older arts.

Hi xvikingx-san,

Actually, "battojutsu" is a general name for the Iaido Ryu ha. Battojutsu, that is to say, Iaido and Iaijutsu(All are the same art.) is the art of drawing and cutting in one motion. They are not seperate arts. You are quite right... it is definately not dead. :D

Kaoru

[Kenshin Himura]

.. Let me clarify it NOW for you. I don'ty live in fantasy world. I quit that already. I havent stuck to it in a bit, have I? If I did then ohhh no shoot me. Uhg forget it I'll do what I want. I don't care if I get hurt or not. I'm not insane. I'm different in real life.

[Kaoru]

Hhhmmm.. Although interesting in learning iai, batto, or both I still do not know much about them. So I will give a very basic answer. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe battojutsu puts more emphisis on test cutting (tameshigiri), while iai is essential just kata. I am probably way off, so I recomend checking other threads. Also you can check out www.e-budo.com for more information.

Actually, Kenjutsu does tameshigiri, and most Iaido does not. Some do, but not all Iaido(battojutsu) allows it. MJER Iaido forbids it. I don't know which are the other ones that do not allow it. Yes, it is a good idea to ask on e-budo.com about it. Make sure you go to the sword arts forum. The emphasis in Iaido, if I remember right, is in kata. I am pretty sure that is correct. You can also go to the Samurai Forum to ask about Iaido, as there are Koryu practitioners there who do Iaido.) The emphasis in both arts, is kata, if I am not mistaken.

Samurai Forum:

http://www2.g-com.ne.jp/~japan/cgi-bin301/ikonboard.cgi?s=40219c431970ffff&

Sword arts forum on e-budo:

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?forumid=16

Kaoru

[jodonnell]

Uhg forget it I'll do what I want. I don't care if I get hurt or not. I'm not insane. I'm different in real life.
(insert acroynm of choice here)!!!!11!!111one

I am unable to articulate my feelings here as the juxtaposition of "I'm not insane" and "I'll do what I want. I don't care if I get hurt or not." has utterly confounded my faculties for speech. Perhaps someone else can add a witty reply.

To put this in the proper scope, since you, sir, seem to be missing the point - if a friend of yours said this about doing lines of crack, or street racing, or penguin wrestling, or anything similarly risky and reckless, what would you say to him?

On a more reasonable note; thanks for the clarification Kaoru. Is batto- simply a more archaic term (or the other way around?) I know ken has plenty of alternate and archaic synonyms, so I suppose iai is just simply the preferred terminology?

Cheers,

James

[Kenshin Himura]

Oh and before how I seemed to contradict myself....... Those were 2 different posts at 2 different times. opinions change.

[xvikingx]

Hi kaoru,

I am aware that some iai and kenjutsu ryu-ha do practice cutting at high levels of study. Like I said before my knowledge is limited so I just wanted to keep my answer short and basic.
About iai and batto being the same thing, I have to disagree. They are similar but not the same. I don't think it is as black & white as saying kenjutsu, iai, or batto. Most ryu-ha have a mix in their curriculum. For example Tendo-ryu, what I study, is comprised of naginatajutsu (being the main focus), kenjutsu, jojutsu, and kusarigamajutsu.
I wish I knew more to maintain a discussion.

[jodonnell]

Oh and before how I seemed to contradict myself....... Those were 2 different posts at 2 different times. opinions change.
Agreed. However, if you change your position on these matters, it helps to let other people know. Apologizing for being impolite, or thanking those that taught you something, is a good way to indicate such a change. If you change your mind but don't let anyone know, how are we to know you've changed?

Cheers,
James

[Kenshin Himura]

yes, I'm sorry for my naievity. If this was a kendo group where we actually were person to person talking you'd see a big difference. I'm different on the internet. everybody is. lol anyways also, thanks for the help Kaoru... oh! big thing, did I ever thank you xvikingx? ^^x' you did kinda nock some sense into me when I was new here.. lol

[xvikingx]

O.k. you are welcome. Just remember, more listening; less sass-back.

[Kenshin Himura]

True. I have a few times blurted off. Hm.. well, now that I think things are settling a bit, anybody know anything I can do with a sword to help build strength in my arm(s)/get used to the sword's wieght? I found this helps me for martial arts... *shrugs* lol

[Kenshin Himura]

Well I gtg to bed. I've got school tomarrow, and its about 10:40pm. lol (I have a cpu curfew at 9pm) so I'll be back here tomarrow.

[jodonnell]

True. I have a few times blurted off. Hm.. well, now that I think things are settling a bit, anybody know anything I can do with a sword to help build strength in my arm(s)/get used to the sword's wieght? I found this helps me for martial arts... *shrugs* lol
Buy a suburito. No, its not the new special at Taco Bell. Its an extra large bokken that is especially heavy. While you would not ordinarily use them in kata, they are good for basic cut practice. Also, you could but a weight for a shinai - these are weights you strap on to the end of the shinai. Find some videos showing basic cut practices; of basic overhead cuts, and try to study them. The motion is like casting a fishing pole in some respects. Additionally, you could always try the tried and true methods of weight lifting and pushups. Ultimately, though, arm strength isn't the end-all be-all. It's more important to have good tenouchi and drive the cut with your pinky than your arm. If you can wield a bokken/shinai comfortably for two hours or so, your arms are probably strong enough. Even though many advanced kenshi have Popeye-esque arms, those will come with time. You don't need to start out looking like the Incredible Hulk.

Cheers,

James

[Kaoru]

Hi kaoru,

I am aware that some iai and kenjutsu ryu-ha do practice cutting at high levels of study. Like I said before my knowledge is limited so I just wanted to keep my answer short and basic.
About iai and batto being the same thing, I have to disagree. They are similar but not the same. I don't think it is as black & white as saying kenjutsu, iai, or batto. Most ryu-ha have a mix in their curriculum. For example Tendo-ryu, what I study, is comprised of naginatajutsu (being the main focus), kenjutsu, jojutsu, and kusarigamajutsu.
I wish I knew more to maintain a discussion.

Hi!

Well, I was told by an Iaidoka who does MJER, that battojutsu is Iaido and is a general term for it. But, I myself, don't know a whole lot about Iaido, so, the best thing to do, is go to the Samurai Forum and ask Charles Mahan. He is an MJER Iaidoka who is on both forums I posted above. He really knows a lot, and has answered my questions well, when I have asked. You can either post or PM him. You'll have to register to post, though. I'm sorry I don't know more. Oh, it's easiest to catch him on the Samurai Forum. as that's a smaller forum.

I hope that helps. :)

Kaoru

[xvikingx]

Hi!

Well, I was told by an Iaidoka who does MJER, that battojutsu is Iaido and is a general term for it. But, I myself, don't know a whole lot about Iaido, so, the best thing to do, is go to the Samurai Forum and ask Charles Mahan. He is an MJER Iaidoka who is on both forums I posted above. He really knows a lot, and has answered my questions well, when I have asked. You can either post or PM him. You'll have to register to post, though. I'm sorry I don't know more. Oh, it's easiest to catch him on the Samurai Forum. as that's a smaller forum.

I hope that helps. :)

Kaoru

Thank you!

[Dan Shea]

I'd actually argue against a suburito based on my sensei's own advice to me.
The suburito will accentuate and further reinforce bad habits and improper technique if you do not already have good technique to begin with.

My suburito sits alone in the corner because of this fact. :(
I was told maybe in 6 months I might be able to begin considering the use of one, provided sensei determines my technique is good enough.

Additionally, it puts alot more stress on the tendons and joints that are brought into play and could lead to injury.

Perhaps if you find someone who could demonstrate a proper cutting technique and go through some exercises with you you could begin suburi with a normal bokuto.

[jodonnell]

I'd actually argue against a suburito based on my sensei's own advice to me.
The suburito will accentuate and further reinforce bad habits and improper technique if you do not already have good technique to begin with.
Hmm, interesting point; I didn't think of that. I would counter with "this will make your flaws more obvious and thus easier to correct" but since this guy hasn't had real practice, he wouldn't have any reference to correct from.

But there's always free weights! :)

Cheers,

James

[Kaoru]

yes, I'm sorry for my naievity. If this was a kendo group where we actually were person to person talking you'd see a big difference. I'm different on the internet. everybody is. lol anyways also, thanks for the help Kaoru... oh! big thing, did I ever thank you xvikingx? ^^x' you did kinda nock some sense into me when I was new here.. lol

You're quite welcome. :) Do please read the information I gave you, in the form of links. You will learn a lot. BUT... PLEASE do not practice with those live blades. Go get a bokuto or a shinai. Doing stuff like suburi and that with a live blade(sharp katana) ESPECIALLY with a sword with the blade reversed, is so very unsafe and dangerous! If you try suburi with that reverse blade, that sharp side could hit you on the head and seriously cut you. Oh, and I am positive that blade is just glued in. That's trouble. And, sheathing and unsheathing is extremely dangerous with a blade that is reversed. It is very realistic to say you have a high chance of losing a finger or worse.

Well, that was my last ditch effort to protect you from getting injured or ending up dead. No offense is intended... only to make sure you are safe, see?

Kaoru

[Kaoru]

Thank you!

You're welcome! :)

Kaoru

[ZrJn89]

People who have NO training in Iaido(battojutsu) or any Japanese sword art, should never give out advice like this.

What you described, is not how it is done anyway. And, Kenshin's "style" is fake. Don't confuse anime with the real thing, which you haven't seen yet.

ZrJn89-san, don't listen to him. He doesn't know anything yet, and has never set foot in a real dojo. Sorry, but if you haven't been taught by a real sensei, you have no business trying to tell someone how, Kenshin-san.

And, stop using that reverse blade sword. It's for the wall, not for real use.

Kaoru

haha it seems i have been gone to long from this thread, thank u kaoru-san ur advice is most appreciated. i would like to know if anyone has purchased any paul chen swords before? i've heard from a friend of mine that they are well built and are high quality (the ones over a grand) and i was wondering if anyone has any input. again any input would be helpful. also is their an actual difference between ninja swords and katanas? i have read that the two are in fact the same and was wondering if that was correct.

[Ren Blade]

I have 2 Paul Chen swords. I don't have any of his swords that are $1000.00 and up. But I have purchased the Practical Katana and the Practical Katana Plus both from Chesapeake Knife And Tool. The Practical Katana, I got 4 years ago and it was on sale for $200.00 at the time. The Practical Katana Plus I got a week ago for $375.00. Both are built for Tameshigiri. They both come very sharp. The blades of both are built similar and material. The blades are not folded (this is in regards to the Practical Katana and the Practical Katana Plus and not his $1000.00 swords) and made of high carbon steel. The balance is pretty good with both. The Practical Katana Plus feels a little lighter. The tsuka of the Practical Katana has imitation ray skin and the Practical Katana Plus has real ray skin. The tsuka of the Practical Katana is 11". The tsuka of the Practical Katana Plus is a little over 12".

I personally haven't done any cutting practice with either yet. A friend told me he has the Practical Katana and has been doing tameshigiri with it for the past 2 years and it has given him no problems and held up well. Lewis, another user on here mentions that he has the Practical Katana Plus and speaks well of it when it comes to serious cutting practice.
http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2147&page=2


15-01-2004, 05:54 AM
lewis (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/member.php?u=137) http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif vbmenu_register("postmenu_31097", true);
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 119 http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/images/reputation/reputation_pos.gif


I bought a practical plus katana and wakazashi specifically for cutting practice. (I have a nice iaito, but it isn't live.) I wanted to try out cutting but I didn't want to throw a lot of money down the drain if I bent the blade (which after doing some cutting is an even larger possibility than I initially imagined - cutting is definitely not the same as doing kendo or iaido and bending a blade is a very real possibility).

The blades cut well and have stayed relatively sharp. I have cut about 200 targets with them, mostly tatami omote - 2/3 with the katana and 1/3 with the wak. They both have two menuki which gives me some confidence as the menuki will work loose during cutting. As these are the only swords I have used for cutting, I don't know if this a problem with these swords, the practical plus series or all japanese style, menuki-equipped swords. (I think it is a menuki design issue personally. It is so dry in Colorado that wood just doesn't hold up well, especially new, wet wood. In Missouri, the handle would swell up so big the blade would be fixed solid and the menuki would look like a rivet. Here, it's another story altogether.)

The only important complaint I have (besides menuki working loose - rivets or bolts are definitely under consideration) is that the blades of both weapons have become a little loose in the tsuka, even when the menuki are tight. I haven't torn down the tsuka yet, but it is coming (and supposed to be OK with the practical plus series, although I have my reservations about that). My guess is that the wood inside the handle has been damaged/compressed/deformed by the environment and number/type of cuttings as I occasionally try to cut thick targets (2 and 3 mat targets) which take a lot of force even with a good cut and, as a beginning cutter, I don't get a good cut every time. If I can't repair it, I will mill a replacement tsuka out of something more durable and, probably, obscenely modern.

An unimportant complaint is that they are cheap. They don't draw very well or smoothly. The saya is poorly constructed and the swords don't fit well or hold well in their saya. Under close inspection they aren't very pretty and haven't gotten prettier with wear.

That said, I'd say that they were definitely the way to go for cutting. They seem safe enough if you pay attention and aren't stupid. While I wouldn't want to take one into battle or use one day in and day out for iaido, they are definitely good enough to cut with and to learn from. You can really tell when you do it right and you can really tell when you do it wrong. A better quality sword would probably let you cut more mats with the same cut or fool you into thinking you cuts are better than they actually are, but I am in it to learn and not to compete with Big Tony (if that is even possible for regular-sized, mere mortals with day jobs). I don't care if they scuff or break because they were pretty cheap on ebay at $200 and $150 US.

I haven't really mistreated one yet, so I can't attest to overall strength. Even my worst cuts so far have been "good enough for government work" and I have yet to follow through into the concrete floor, wall, or an overhead I-beam. I have misjudged and sheared the top of the 1-inch wooden (white pine) peg on the tamishigiri stand a few times with no negative consequences. And the katana has gone through 3-mat omote targets many times without any visible negative effects to the blade.

If you are considering buying one, there are a number of Paul Chen importers who only sell on ebay and have heavily discounted prices because they don't have any overhead.

Since I am here and you've read this far, I'll go out on a limb and be a little opinionated. (anticipatory apologies all 'round) I, for one, think there are better uses for ray skin than sword handles - like on rays. AND, while it certainly was the best thing going in 1250 AD, there are better materials available now for sword handles than ray skin. Sounds like a perfect "And they all lived happily ever after" ending to me. (Except for the "We gottcha right here da real dead ray skin handle - yessiree" advertisements. You've seen them, I'm sure. "Men o' your discriminatin' tastes should accept no cheap dead shark, weasel or vole imitations. Dead rays is what it is all about when cutting omote or doing iai. Accept no sub-sti-tutes. I tell you what. Uh-huh. When you spend this much on a quality piece, you gotta get your dead ray in the bargain. It tradition. Besides, the ray was already dead when it got to the factory. It wasn't like he was going to need that skin no more....")
__________________
GCL

Still water.
Reflecting the flight of swallows,
Is it still water?
Practical Katana: http://www.chesapeakeknifeandtool.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/online-store/scstore/sword-practical.htm?L+scstore+rwqg3838ff8e268e+107784799 6

Practical Katana Plus: http://www.chesapeakeknifeandtool.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/online-store/scstore/sword-practical-plus.htm?E+scstore

[Ren Blade]

This is the first bad review of the Practical Katana Plus I have ever read. I haven't heard any bad things about this model Katana til this.
http://www2.g-com.ne.jp/~japan/cgi-bin301/ikonboard.cgi?s=402b811264ebffff;act=ST;f=6;t=38;s t=10

[Nox2k3]

Before I say anything I just want to make it clear to anyone who happens to read this post that I have never taken any sort of sword-style, however I have taken some form of martial art so long ago that it was before I had a real mind, so therefore, my comments have no concrete bias so please correct me if I say something stupid.

The sword Himurasan is talking about very likely the one shown in the picture because I have on of these myself. Don't worry about losing a finger, you can only do that if you saw at it for about thirty minutes. The saya doesn't hold the blade in very well (mine doesn't at least), so it has a tendency to fall out if you are not careful. This happened to me and I cought the sword by the blade, it reminded me of a paper cut, though the pain was slightly duller.

The sword isn't "cheap" however I believe that if it were to go up against any real-ish katana it would snap simply because the katana would cut right through it, however it can be used as a functional lead pipe. The blade is not glued on at all, in fact its rather sturdy, the guard and endcap are both cast iron and it seems to be machine assembled.

However, do not take these comments as a reason to not practice serious safety. Just swinging this sword at any living thing will cause serious dammage, it is surprisingly strong, and if the blade were to hit something at that velocity it would probably add a bit of cuttage. In addition, I have not repeatedly (or very often) hit anything remotly solid with this sword so I can't say the blade won't split or something won't break and it won't come flying out, it just feels extremely sturdy, and those that have looked at it confirmed that its got some sort of tang. However, I am unsure as to their credentials...

That said I do believe there may be good reasons for using a reverse blade (a well made one) for someone who is very experience both with normal katanas and the sword in question. In fact if you were to pretend for a minute that Kenshin was a real person, he began learning kenjutsu when he was eight, and picked up his reverse blade at 18, after doing a hell-of-a-job . He then had 10 years of essentially doing nothing to learn how to use his reverse-blade, but only after he knew rather well how a normal style and sword worked.

Don't get yourself hurt, if you did, then theres no way your parents would let you practice kenjutsu. Actually I was wondering if anyone knew the legality of sword possession, carrying swords, and driving with swords. I have had a long standing argument with my dad who thoroughly believes that if a police officer comes to within site of me I will be shot onsight.

I would love to actually find a kenjutsu, kendo, or iado school somewhere in my area but since im in Athens Ohio, that is unlikely to happen until I am out of college. Would anyone have any recommendations as to how I could go about learning anything while I'm stuck without a sensei?

[Kaoru]

Before I say anything I just want to make it clear to anyone who happens to read this post that I have never taken any sort of sword-style, however I have taken some form of martial art so long ago that it was before I had a real mind, so therefore, my comments have no concrete bias so please correct me if I say something stupid.

The sword Himurasan is talking about very likely the one shown in the picture because I have on of these myself. Don't worry about losing a finger, you can only do that if you saw at it for about thirty minutes. The saya doesn't hold the blade in very well (mine doesn't at least), so it has a tendency to fall out if you are not careful. This happened to me and I cought the sword by the blade, it reminded me of a paper cut, though the pain was slightly duller.

The sword isn't "cheap" however I believe that if it were to go up against any real-ish katana it would snap simply because the katana would cut right through it, however it can be used as a functional lead pipe. The blade is not glued on at all, in fact its rather sturdy, the guard and endcap are both cast iron and it seems to be machine assembled.

However, do not take these comments as a reason to not practice serious safety. Just swinging this sword at any living thing will cause serious dammage, it is surprisingly strong, and if the blade were to hit something at that velocity it would probably add a bit of cuttage. In addition, I have not repeatedly (or very often) hit anything remotly solid with this sword so I can't say the blade won't split or something won't break and it won't come flying out, it just feels extremely sturdy, and those that have looked at it confirmed that its got some sort of tang. However, I am unsure as to their credentials...

That said I do believe there may be good reasons for using a reverse blade (a well made one) for someone who is very experience both with normal katanas and the sword in question. In fact if you were to pretend for a minute that Kenshin was a real person, he began learning kenjutsu when he was eight, and picked up his reverse blade at 18, after doing a hell-of-a-job . He then had 10 years of essentially doing nothing to learn how to use his reverse-blade, but only after he knew rather well how a normal style and sword worked.

Don't get yourself hurt, if you did, then theres no way your parents would let you practice kenjutsu. Actually I was wondering if anyone knew the legality of sword possession, carrying swords, and driving with swords. I have had a long standing argument with my dad who thoroughly believes that if a police officer comes to within site of me I will be shot onsight.

I would love to actually find a kenjutsu, kendo, or iado school somewhere in my area but since im in Athens Ohio, that is unlikely to happen until I am out of college. Would anyone have any recommendations as to how I could go about learning anything while I'm stuck without a sensei?


Hi there,

I realise you stated you have never studied a swort art. That's good you said that. I appreciate you trying to explain, but: This is why untrained people should not talk about swords and safety and whether a blade is safe or not. No, I would not say you said anything stupid. I would day that what you said was uninformed and just not right.


Just swinging this sword at any living thing will cause serious dammage, it is surprisingly strong, and if the blade were to hit something at that velocity it would probably add a bit of cuttage.

However, this was ok, even if it was not said how a person who is trained, would say it. That is actually true. But, remember, an edged blade no matter what it is, is asking for trouble at all times, even when you are just holding it. Real practice blades are so sharp that all it takes is one slight brush with it, and you get a very serious injury or even, off goes the finger or worse.

NOTE TO NEW UNTRAINED PEOPLE: If you have NEVER trained in a legit dojo, please DO NOT give out advice on swords or anything of the sort. You can get a person injured by wrong advice.

So...

YES, the tang will be glued in. ALL swords have a tang. ALL wall hangers like the fake reverse blade and others are DANGEROUS AND NOT MEANT TO BE USED!! Sorry, must be emphatic here. Safety is a huge issue.

If you ever tried walking into a real Kenjutsu or Iaido dojo and mentioned that you have been practicing with a reverse blade, you would be immediately shown out the front door. They only want serious students... not Kenshin fans.

Furthermore:

PLEASE UNDERSTAND: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A WELL MADE, USABLE, AND SAFE REVERSE BLADE! It is made up by the creator of the Kenshin manga and anime. It is PURELY meant as a decoration to be hung as anime memorabilia. It doesn't exist and never ever DID exist as a real sword. No self-respecting swordsmith that makes true swords for real Kenjutsuka and Iaidoka, would dare make one.

And: Kenshin never did exist. He is an anime character. Therefore, what you said is not applicable to anything at all. Hiten mitsurugi Ryu is a fake sword style. The Reverse blade is a fake sword, that is only a symbol of Kenshin's vow never to kill again. That's the only reason it exists in the anime. It's a philosophical tool to promote a moral view. That is all.

And, a real Kenjutsuka and Iaidoka would not touch such a sword with a 10 foot pole because of the safety factor. Why don't you go register on E-budo's sword forum and ask the sensei there why? You'll get an educated mouthfull why and be told of what the dangers of using such a blade.
would be.

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?forumid=16

To register in order to post, click on the register button at the top middle of the page. When you make your post, you must post your full given name. It is a rule, and it is enforced. I challenge you to go ask these Kenjutsu and Iaido sensei and advanced students on e-budo about this reverse blade. They will tell you how unsafe those wallhangers are, too.

Regarding legality and swords. You cannot use it in public. You can only use one in your own backyard, which I suggest you NOT do unless you are trainig with a sensei in a dojo. You can carry it in the backseat of a car if it is in a case. But, you should be a member of a legit dojo to be able to prove to a law officer you have to transport it for valid reasons. I would not suggest you take it in a car otherwise. Very bad idea. You should not be even using any of the wallhanger swords you own. Those are not practice swords. I won't tell you where to get a real practice sword because you do not have a sensei and are not ready for one. A sensei will tell you when you may even use a katana. You will begin with a bokuto(Bokken. Both mean wooden sword.). It takes about 3-6 years before you would even be allowed to use a blade with a cutting edge.

Yes, there are dojos in Ohio. It depends on whether or not you will continue to use that silly reverse blade or not and the other wallhanger, that I will help you with a dojo. I won't find one for a Kenshin wannabe who insists that a reverse blade is safe. No offense meant, of course. If you can show me you are dead serious about training, I may consider otherwise.

Show me by asking about the reverse blade on e-budo, and that you understand that what I am telling you is true, and then I will talk about a dojo. I am a member there, and I will see your post. Ask them also about the wallhanger you have. Post pics of both in your post, and that will help them answer your questions.

NOTE TO OTHERS ON THIS FORUM: Don't give this person a dojo yet. This is only to help him figure out how serious he really is.

Studying a sword art, including Kendo, is work. It is not all fun and games. It is sometimes boring, sometimes fun. It is full of repeating one cut until it it half-way correct, and then even still not quite right, and sensei says, No, no... again, again. You will kneel in seiza on a hard wood floor sometimes for 15-20 minutes. That is painful at times. You will do suburi until you are tired. It is WORK. HARD work, too. It requires complete concentration and a mature attitude because you are working with a real weapon, be it shinai, bokuto or sword, and there will be other students in class you have to be aware of, to prevent injury.

Please realise the hard work involved. If you think you can handle this level of committment, then we can talk about a dojo. I know of several in Ohio.
But, I can't help if you are not really serious. Sorry about that. Please give what I have written some serious thought.

Kaoru

[Sakabatou]

Hi, its me Kenshin Himura.. I'm back.. just a few things. The reverse blade sword I have is full tang, but no its not something to get into serious kendo about. You are right what you are saying. lol a reverse blade sword is more meant for thge wall than training, and even if it is REALLY sturdy, if thats possible, its kinda a piece of crap because you cant really do anything with a sword with the blade on the wrong side. heh..

[Ren Blade]

I don't see a mekugi in the tsuka.
http://www.knightsedge.com/swords/reverse-blade-sword-2044g.jpg

It really is just glued in huh? *shivers at the thought of it being swung around*

It's a definite fantasy sword/wall hanger.

[Sakabatou]

That.. is just a drawing of the sword.. If you REALLY want to proove your point about the sword then why dont you buy it or ask somebody who has one to let you use it for a bit? ^^' well you can think what you want but I didnt say I was going to bring it to a iaido class to use and be all "I'm Kenshin let me train here!" thats what a jackass would do. Did you really think I was going to bring a sword like THAT to kendo or iaido? *shudders* I wouldnt dare. lol

and whats glued in? I dont see anything glued. lol the blade is definateley not glued in.. well... actually oOx it might be. I don't see any pins to hold the blade into the hilt O.Ox' your right. lol...

[Ren Blade]

There's no need for you to defend the reverse blade katana. It's a fantasy sword and not functional and you've acknowledged you realize it's a wall hanger now. When you start Iaido or Kenjutsu training, you won't see the reverse blade katana for anything more than just something for the imagination.

[Tom_Bombadil_]

Indeed,regarding the earlier discussion about... basically the hiten mitserugi or stuff... Im a history nut, and the reason im kinda into Kenshin and the like is due to the unorthodox kendo involved. Dont get me wrong at first, i got into kendo for the martial art and the historical aspects, but I dont think its right for us to ignore anything but the traditional ways... due to the sword purge, the satsuma rebellion and basically the meji era in general, many styles, many diverse and beautiful styles were destroyed. Its my wish that we could somehow revive them. Thats why I think that, with a practice sword, its perfectly fine to practice as such. You really shouldnt be so... hostile tword the anime, i think they are awakening a love for those lost styles. Ive heard of varous teachers who teach parts of these styles, and it would be a great tribute to the masters before us if we could rebuild these different styles.... what do u think as a fellow martial artist about reviving old styles?

[jodonnell]

Well, there is the whole deal that Hiten Mitsurugi isn't grounded in reality, at all, period. He's not talking about reviving a real koryu that has been lost, he was talking about practicing a pretend ryu. No similarities whatsoever.

[chidokan]

I would say it would be next to impossible to replicate a dead style. The problem with this is that a lot of the teaching is done by word of mouthand demonstration, and not a lot is written down except in the form of names of techniques. Even living ryu, such as MJER, have problems with waza disappearing. A friend of mine has a book detailing all the MJER waza as taught over a hundred years ago. Since Oe Masamichi rationalised them, no-one bothered with the ones he didnt include in the 'new' syllabus. As the people who knew them died off, no-one learnt them so they become lost waza.
Hyaku's ryu is about to be in a similar position. His teacher has died, the guy he practised with is too old and has retired, leaving Hyaku to be sole survivor of the school. Unless he gets some students shortly that is another ryu biting the dust.
This is what makes me angry about seitei iaido. Rather than learning a traditional ryu and keeping them going, they all want to be the same and 'compete' for grades, trophies etc. People will now leap in to defend seitei and its alternatives, emphasising the use of basics, but do you really expect me to believe that they can only practise basics in that system? All ryu have basics, that is where these kata get the basics from!

[xifoarhos]

theres nothing wrong with kenshin himura pretending to be kenshin and using his imagination. im 18 and i wish i could be like kenshin too, even though i know his techniques dont work form experience. there is however something wrong with kenshin himura pretending to be kenshin with a sharp sword. wats wrong with you! it dosnt matter that the sword is a reverse blade, unless you are practicing cutting, or planning on fighting someone to the death, there is no reason to EVER practice with a live blade! i know that using a real sword is very different from a bokken, but i have a dull sword made for iaido. i seriously suggest you get a dull sword, because even though you have a reverse blade, its still sharp and accidents do happen.

[webjunkie401]

Just been reading the thread.

I only have one thing to say in defence of seitei iaido. From my understanind it was developed to not replace other schools of iaido, but to supplement kendo so that kendoka did not become people that simply hit each others with sticks but would know how to handle a real sword. That is why I started iaido, but now I want to go beyond seitei as well..... well when I actually learn all twelve kata.

As for something much earlier in the thread, about the accident involving a battodo master. Sounds like he got caught up in the excitement of the moment and didn't use enough sayabiki (the pulling back of the saya in order to draw out the blade), and since it was a live blade the sword just cut through the saya and his hand since they were in the way and he just used more force. Not a huge mistake, but a messy one.

My sempai has done that too, but he was using an iaito so no fingers damaged. Further, it is to my understanding that iaidoka don't even use shinken until Godan. Well that's when they require one for testing purposes anyway.

[chidokan]

Its very true to say that seitei iaido was developed to try and encourage kendoka to take up iaido....unfortunately people get carried away with it. I think what they should have done is put a 'cap' of, say, sandan on it. By then most people know if they want to carry on with iaido or not. At that point the onus would then be on the traditional schools to help students continue their interest. Although I continually return to basics, not just for my students benefit but also my own, I stick to my school's methods, which force improvements back down from the higher levels to the beginning waza as you learn more. I no longer find the need to have to continue with seitei, a feeling I believe is common with senior grades, if anything I find it stifles some of my technique. But to be fair I am no longer a beginner, and that is what the system was designed for. To its benefit it did get me to my teacher, albeit by a long route.........

[webjunkie401]

Oh I entirely agree. Seitei is useful, to a point. Luckily my instructor (he doesn't want me to call him sensei since he doesn't consider himself one. Our sensie is returning soon, but was deployed to Afghanistan) also teaches waza that aren't part of seitei.

[Aurora Borealis]

Hmph. The Samurai died out a long time ago. Let them rest in peace. Don't pretend to be something you're not. Though Mitsurugi Ryu from the show has no meaning in the real world, the techniques displayed can injure yourself more than anybody else you fight with. Along with that you don't learn the discipline that comes with practicing a true martial art. Go to a kendo or iaido school near you and learn from people that know what they are doing.

I myself am a huge fan of RK. However, I can distinguish between reality and fantasy so I am not a danger to myself. I'm only 13, so I have plenty of time to learn swordsmanship from a propper school. When I learn the real techniques of swordsmanship, I'll look back and see the effectiveness of the techniques from RK. Still, I wouldn't know 100% what I was doing so I could still hurt others around me. I currently take Judo, Tae Kwon Do, and I'm thinking what to learn, Kendo or Iaido. I a little help would be appreciated.

[Miburo-Wolf]

i to am a huge fan of rurouni kenshin. if you do want to practice some moves from the show, juse a bokken like i do. this is much safer dan a real sword. i wouldn't think of using a real sword like kenshin himura (the one from the forum, not the one from the show).

altough a you can get serious injurd with a bokken if you go one on one. but it is fun. : )

[Magius]

Well this is my first post, so I'd like to clarify a few things, I'm also a mere teen, tho "mere" would be a desperate sarcastic word to point out the age discrimination which can be subsituted with "Childish" instead of "Young", which again is another point. I've studied Kendo, yes, the youngest in my kendo class(not an official dojo as well) It was actually a Kendo Class to introduce more people to the art and sport of Kendo in Hong Kong, which I have signed up, having recently given up fencing for personal reasons. I've only been practicing Kendo for a few months, so I'm a complete novice, but I really love this, and plan to make this "the" sport/martial art of my life. So that's my experience in kendo in a nutshell.

I've never thought about the reverse blade sheathing thing, as I recall in the cartoon, Kenshin did so by not touching the sheath at all.

Yes I watch kenshin, I'd like to note that my interest in kendo sparked before I started watching the anime, and the reason I didn't pursue it was because I practice fencing, however I'd like anyone who didn't like Kenshin to reconsider, It's a nice anime, what people do after it is their fault.

I thought, if you want to try the battou Jutsu, why not use a bokuto?

The real questions now, which i think is related. I've never heard about Battou Jutsu (Starting the attack directly from the sheath, supposedly to make it stronger/faster) from my sensei so I brushed it off as a made up thing, until later one i read someone online that it exist, though still skeptical.

Is it still practice? Is it a martial art? Is it something you still learn in a dojo or something? Or just a long past thing? I'd like to know more things connected to Kendo, and if Battou Jutsu is real, I hazard a guess that it would be another branch.

For one, if it is as intepreted by Kenshin (not saying that it is, but I've got little information of it, so that's all i got) you run towards your enemy and then slash, you cannot move normally, and will have to use a different footing. The normal footing allows balance over speed, while if you were to go for a suprise strike, you'd want the momentum to be foward to make the blow stronger and faster. This all is just guessing of course, but I personally don't think it's too illogical.

Another thought is that if you draw from the sheath, the cut would not be the normal men, would not come down from the center (I was taught that Kendo is based on that the sword should remain in ones center). Also if it was a surpise or defence against an ambush as someone said, I would imagine that the position it would strike would be one that is unexpected and hard to block instead of an over head slash, perhaps something like a Do perhaps? I've no idea, just guessing wildly.

I'd like to know more about it, at least the basics, is it a seperate martial art, a technique, or whatever you call it? Please help the ignorant :P

[chidokan]

batto jutsu is yet another term for iaijutsu and all the other names for drawing and cutting from the saya. See Charles Mahan's signature, he's collecting them....

As for drawing and cutting, if you think about it there are only so many ways you can draw a sword, which basically covers a semicircle from the left side of the body. You can also stab from there, but ignoring this, at the most basic level the sword cuts up at a a diagonal, down at a diagonal, or horizontally round in a circle to the front. If you would like to try and learn these techniques, search for an iaido class in your area by using Charles' list. :)

And we dont all come down on youngsters, just the ones who think cartoons are real...or that soaps have people you can actually meet... :wink:

[fly_Chris_fly]

Don't use them unless you know absolutly what you're doing, I personally like to touch the back of a sword, the blunt edge for many techniques... I don't want to know what would happen if I do that with a reverse blade.

If you want a weapon that is like a katana but doesn't have the killing ability as they do, then simply use a blunt katana with a dull edge. Not only will sheathing be easier, but almost everything else will too.

[Kichigai]

Hmm...this topic borders on flame. Fun!

In any event, I actually have studied, and continue to study, Tamiya Ryu Iaijustsu. I hope I can contribute to the intellectual value of this post by addressing some of the issues here.

1.) The reverse blade sword is litterally impossible to use for several reasons. Iaijutsu (and to some extent iaido, though it isn't a koryu) requires a bladed edge for a reason: you're cutting something. A blunt edge slamming against an object will only break the sword, perhaps even on the first iai. This fact is proven by simple physics: force is equal in a systematic strike upon an object, so the several hundred pounds of force utilized in a correct iai would shatter the blade on impact of any kind of armor. Because this is a koryu, and several of you are interested in Japanese history by extension of Kenshin, I'll make reference to the samurai armor of period (or rather a bit earlier, as Kenshin takes place during the Meiji era). Striking with an iai against a foe using even the weakest of armor (laquered bamboo - ashigaru) with a blunt blade could damage the blade seriously, and leave one open to serious attack. Koryu are combat arts, and lack, in many cases, the zen aspects of ZNKF and Iaido. No koryu would use such a weapon in true combat. Couple this with the fact that the blade is on the side in which you would preform chiburi (wiping off of the blood) and noto, and you've got one bloody thumb.

2.) Liking Kenshin is not stupid, and joining Kendo/Iaido because you like it is indeed admirable. I admit, when I first started doing iaijutsu (I began iaijutsu before kendo), I believed that anime-ish stuff was possible in real combat. I learned quite fast that it's impossible to do waza like that in real life. Moreover, I began to understand the underlying conceptual aspects of both koryu and budo, and am better for it. Go ahead - take a real martial art and learn the folly of such things, but hey, if it's motivation to join Kendo/Iaido, why fight it?

3.) Magius, and please don't interperet this as sounding mean, but using kendo kamae (in relation to keiko) concepts in application to iaijutsu is wrong. Consider kata - your footing is never always the same if you're uchidachi and shiachi. Also, there are many kata in iaijutsu that don't strike for the center (mizu kagami, etc). Heck, in iaido, the first strike you learn is from seiza.

Well, I hope this helps out a tiny bit.

[Jung_Yul]

Okay... this has really carried on quite a bit. ^_^ Let me put my 2 cents worth in, please. First, I have only trained in Kendo and Muso Shinden Ryu Iaido for about 3 years, so I'll make no claims to deeply profound knowledge. Second, I do have a great appreciation for Rurouni Kenshin... (NOT the Americanized, so-called "Samurai X." :mad: ) Third, I have a fascination for swords and blades of all kinds, and did work for some 3 years in retail of such items; (no genuine Japanese swords) however, I make no claims about having any blacksmithing or metalurgic knowledge or experience... now that THAT'S out of the way... ^_^

While I appreciate Rurouni Kenshin for the fact that the series DOES incorporate some historical figures (Saitoh Hajime, Okubo Toshimichi, etc.) and alludes to some historical dates, most of the main elements of the story are fictional. Such as Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu, the sakabatou, Hiko Seijuro, and Himura Kenshin. I know that Kenshin was either based or, more likely, inspired by a real samurai, such a person never really existed. This will be off topic, BUT, bear in mind that The Texas Chainsaw Massacre was INSPIRED by Ed Gein; however, no such events EVER truly took place. Back to topic, the word "sakabatou" was completely invented by the creator of Rurouni Kenshin! Speaking of this Knight's Edge reverse blade sword, having sold some of their work, and having had first hand looks at everything that the store I once worked for carried, I can't say that the quality is far removed from a wall hanging sword. Perhaps their European swords are of decent quality for THAT area; however, I certainly wouldn't trust the safety of my fellow students, or of myself to anything that company produces by actually attempting to train with it. Put simply, in my personal and humble opinion, in the realm of Japanese swords, their quality doesn't even register. One last point: the Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki is NOT the name of some Battou or Iai quick draw that I've ever heard of. Again, it is the name of a fictional Ougi of the fictional Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu. Now that I've ranted, I WILL say that I do agree with the statements that have been made that there is no harm in a teenager, or someone of ANY age using their imagination to pretend they are someone else... fictional or real. However, in this case, I fear that trying to practice with such a sword is unimaginably dangerous, and safety should NEVER be sacrificed... especially when there are much safer alternatives. i.e. a bokuto or an iaito. Thanks for bearing with me and my ranting.

Yours in Budo,
John Anderson

[Kichigai]

Okay... this has really carried on quite a bit. ^_^ Let me put my 2 cents worth in, please. First, I have only trained in Kendo and Muso Shinden Ryu Iaido for about 3 years, so I'll make no claims to deeply profound knowledge. Second, I do have a great appreciation for Rurouni Kenshin... (NOT the Americanized, so-called "Samurai X." :mad: ) Third, I have a fascination for swords and blades of all kinds, and did work for some 3 years in retail of such items; (no genuine Japanese swords) however, I make no claims about having any blacksmithing or metalurgic knowledge or experience... now that THAT'S out of the way... ^_^

While I appreciate Rurouni Kenshin for the fact that the series DOES incorporate some historical figures (Saitoh Hajime, Okubo Toshimichi, etc.) and alludes to some historical dates, most of the main elements of the story are fictional. Such as Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu, the sakabatou, Hiko Seijuro, and Himura Kenshin. I know that Kenshin was either based or, more likely, inspired by a real samurai, such a person never really existed. This will be off topic, BUT, bear in mind that The Texas Chainsaw Massacre was INSPIRED by Ed Gein; however, no such events EVER truly took place. Back to topic, the word "sakabatou" was completely invented by the creator of Rurouni Kenshin! Speaking of this Knight's Edge reverse blade sword, having sold some of their work, and having had first hand looks at everything that the store I once worked for carried, I can't say that the quality is far removed from a wall hanging sword. Perhaps their European swords are of decent quality for THAT area; however, I certainly wouldn't trust the safety of my fellow students, or of myself to anything that company produces by actually attempting to train with it. Put simply, in my personal and humble opinion, in the realm of Japanese swords, their quality doesn't even register. One last point: the Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki is NOT the name of some Battou or Iai quick draw that I've ever heard of. Again, it is the name of a fictional Ougi of the fictional Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu. Now that I've ranted, I WILL say that I do agree with the statements that have been made that there is no harm in a teenager, or someone of ANY age using their imagination to pretend they are someone else... fictional or real. However, in this case, I fear that trying to practice with such a sword is unimaginably dangerous, and safety should NEVER be sacrificed... especially when there are much safer alternatives. i.e. a bokuto or an iaito. Thanks for bearing with me and my ranting.

Yours in Budo,
John AndersonI absolutely agree with you an all of your points.

One could surmise that Ruroni Kenshin could be based on either Miyamoto Musashi (reverse blade sword standing in for a bokuto). Merely supposition.

[nalogg]

where the guy cut off his thumb in the quick draw (Ama Kakeru Ryu No Hirameki) that was because his sheath SPLIT AT THE END. I'm using a reverse blade, so its less likeley that the sheath will split and ALSO I cant cut my hand off if it does because the blade is on the other side.
Well since I'm using a reverse blade katana, the most I can do is break a bone in my hand, or get it flung into my wall.. I never do this near somebody.. ^^x' I'm careful.. VERY.. careful.. when I feel something wrong or different I stop immediateley. Well I gtg, I'll be back later.Where the hell did you get a reverse blade katana?, and i seriously pray that you don't try to cut anything with that, like wood, or straw bundles because the structure of a katana is not meant for striking with the concave side... that's risky business.

The katana is pretty strong when used correctly, but they have still been known to break (especially if your cut has a bit of twist to it or you don't strike with the final 1/3 of the blade)

furthermore it most not be battle-ready because I doubt you had a battle-ready sword forged since no swordsmith in their right mind would forge a reversed sword, let alone one that is battle-ready, let alone sell it to a 14 year old.

please please PLEASE for your own sake, if you're going to swing anything around use a bokken, and hang that reversed thing on the wall for show, because that's all it's meant to be.... some anime souvenir.

[Jung_Yul]

I absolutely agree with you an all of your points.

One could surmise that Ruroni Kenshin could be based on either Miyamoto Musashi (reverse blade sword standing in for a bokuto). Merely supposition.Kichigai,

While it really WOULD be nice to imagine that Himura Kenshin is based off of Miyamoto Musashi, in reality, according to the series' creator, he's actually based off of a hitokiri named Kawakami Gensai. There's your useless trivia for the day. ^_^ Aside from that, in the story, Kenshin uses the reverse-blade to not kill anyone... unless I'm mistaken Musashi killed a fair share with a bokuto. I see the parallel you're making, though.

Yours in Budo,
John Anderson

[Sôjirô]

[QUOTE= where the guy cut off his thumb in the quick draw (Ama Kakeru Ryu No Hirameki) that was because his sheath SPLIT AT THE END. [/QUOTE]

personal input: also, the guy who cut off his thumb, had a wood scabbard. in the old days (I THINK) the scabbards were sometimes made of metal. in case of error during batodo or iaido techniques, there was less chance of injury. also, in rurouni kenshin, kenshin's alias is battosai. battosai = batto (with sai) i fhis name was derived from a martial art, or technique, i would think that he would be skillfull enough to execute it properly...

lol i like rurouni kenshin a lot... *points at user name (sôjirô) (he's a guy in the anime)

although i may like kenshin and samourai x (even if the name may be considered to be not original ) i would like to say that i KNOW its only an anime, and that i never confuse anything (game, anime, movie) with reality, so please dont judge ppl for their tastes, and their curiosities, but more for their choices ans actions.

[Pokie]

try getting ippon from sonkyo..that is quick draw kendo style..like a 3 move check mate

[Knightwolf]

The anime is based on real events that happined in the Majie era, botto jutsu is a real technique. As for kenshin his character was based off a man who was one of the rebels. He disappeared after the fighting. as to the rest of the facts I have no idea.

[Dave Fowler]

try getting ippon from sonkyo..that is quick draw kendo style..like a 3 move check mate

That's pretty much not allowed or given any more. They moved the kenshi farther apart to help stop people from trying this. There were far to many older folks who had done kendo in high school and then later on in life thought their bodies were the same.. lets just say lots of parts got broken :-)

[Ryan213]

but you have to study alot about Samurai X, Kenshin, and his style if you want to succed. It works if you do it right, trust me. ^^x I think you'll be happy with your results if you do well, that you will.

one more thing

BE EXTREMALY CAREFUL!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!

your not serious right ?

[Berugijin]

but you have to study alot about Samurai X, Kenshin, and his style if you want to succed. It works if you do it right, trust me. ^^x I think you'll be happy with your results if you do well, that you will.

one more thing

BE EXTREMALY CAREFUL!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!
your not serious right ?

You're joking right? What do you expect from a guy who mimicks the grammar flaws ("that you will") of Kenshin Himura?

But I should STFU before I am attacked with some Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu attack...

[Kaoru]

I hope you guys realise just how old this thread is. :D I finally got through to him on another thread last year, so let him be. No need to drag this out again. :)

Kaoru

[Knightwolf]

The lady is right I'm afraid, perhaps we should go more in-depth on the actual sword styles that concern the quick draw.

[Mugu]

ehe.. theres alot more behind Kenshin in the anime and they dont call him Samurai X. ^^x' his name is Shinta Himura, his family died of Cholera when he was only about 4. A swordsman of the Hiten-.. oh forget it.. ^^x' ehe.. I'm only 14... I have the right to be like this!!!! lol

Just one last thingy, they never mention Kenshin's last name, the last name Himura was given by katsura when Kenshin became his Hitokiri :D Ok, we can let this rest now

[sou]

Time for me to join....

Serious kenshin dewd you're acting like a baby... Your age shows alot....
I'm gonna say things that are truth and some that may piss you guys off...Bewarned...

First off trying things that you seen on tv is stupid.... And no I'm not hating on anyone....
Respect... Why give respect to someone that doesn't give it himself.....
Alittle japanese history

Rurouni Kenshin/samurai x is mostly fiction.... Some of the characters were based on real people from that era....Like Hajime Saitou and okita Souji... Since people love to throw facts out I'll throw one out to... hajime Saitou died at the age of 72 as a musuem guard....

There was a man during the meiji restoration that was an assassin that used a violent style... (Similar to kenshin himura the fictional character...) He also looked like a women,just like okita souji... That was there trump card.... That man that kenshin was based on was exacuted in the 6th year of meiji, by the same government he fought for........

That's enough for now..... Peace....

[sou]

My fault guys I thought page 5 was the last page like a dork....... Take that info as you want...Peace....

[Rurouni Kamui]

I found this thread very interesting because I admire Kenshin myself. Kenshin is a fake character of comics books and as someone practicing iaido and kendo i know that a lot of his techniques are not real. However, i dont think it is Hiten-Mitsurugi Ryu, that impressed you in Kenshin it is his way of life after Meiji revolution, that is described by an author. The reverse blade katana is a symbol of ex-Battosai's promise not to take people's life. He wanted to protect and save people with his sword, both enemies and friends. First 3 katas of Kendo teach you that the aim of a swordman not to kill your opponent, but make him realize his mistake. Thats why as you progress from 1st kata where shidachi kills uchidachi to to the 2rd where shidachi just wounds uchidachi. And in the 3rd shidachi wis winning without spilling blood. That is a true spirit of bushido, and people who choose to admire such principles deserve to be respected. That's why i have respect for a young Kenshin who posted a lot in this forum.

Today, such ideals as Gi (Justice), Yu (Bravery), Jin (compassion), Rei (Courtesy), Makoto (Truthfulness), Meiyo (honor) and Chiyugi (Loyalty) have lost their power in eyes of most people, but some of us still value them. The creator of Kenshin and most likely young Kenshin are one of them. Kenshin trully existed during Meiji revolution. His name was Gensai Kawakami (Hitokiri Gensai). You can say that this person is Hitokiri Battosai. However, Kenshin is different. He was a pure imagination and dream of his creator. I now true kenshin is not real, but it doesnt mean one cant follow his ideals.

Nevertheless, practicing with a real katana is dangerous and if young Kenshin hurts himself he will cause pain to those who love him. Remember Kenshin chose to live in order to bring happiness to those he care about. You should do so as well. If you are interested in learning art of swordmanship, then you should join kendo or Iaido. In 2 years time you will feel yourself a better person and a bit closer to real Kenshin. But no matter what, keep that spirit and belief inside of you, it is very unique treasure that you must protect.

That's all i have to say.

[Andou]

Yikes. You really follow Kenshin down to a point where you want to live as him? That's noble. As for me, I don't really feel as though I want to be closer to someone who disobeyed his sensei to become a cold-blooded assassin...He changed his ways, sure...but that still remains.

[Mugu]

wow! Rurouni Kamu, you're the first one who actually defend Kenshin in such a noble way and I 101% agree with you. He's not real it doesn't mean we can't try to live that ideal life of his. I've always think RK is quite educational besides the fighting parts. I guess there are so many damn kids out there just wanna learn Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu instead of thinking what's this story is all about...

[Rurouni Kamui]

Yikes. You really follow Kenshin down to a point where you want to live as him? That's noble. As for me, I don't really feel as though I want to be closer to someone who disobeyed his sensei to become a cold-blooded assassin...He changed his ways, sure...but that still remains.

I dont want to live my life as Kenshin or anyone else but myself. I have my own principles and emotions that effect me in my decisions. Every person has a right to choose how they want to live their life. However, i think good examples, whether they are real or not, give you a chance to think of things you might have not thought before, and add new principles to those that you already have, making your inner world richer.

As for the second part of your comment, well if Kenshin was real, he would still be a human. And for humans it is common to make mistakes, none of us are perfect, after all. But some find courage to admit their wrong doings and try to fix it, while others give up and run away from them. The choice is again our own. But it is extreamly admirable when people have compassion, bravery and spiritual strength to admit their mistakes and try to pay for them in one way or another.

[Andou]

I dont want to live my life as Kenshin or anyone else but myself. I have my own principles and emotions that effect me in my decisions. Every person has a right to choose how they want to live their life. However, i think good examples, whether they are real or not, give you a chance to think of things you might have not thought before, and add new principles to those that you already have, making your inner world richer.

As for the second part of your comment, well if Kenshin was real, he would still be a human. And for humans it is common to make mistakes, none of us are perfect, after all. But some find courage to admit their wrong doings and try to fix it, while others give up and run away from them. The choice is again our own. But it is extreamly admirable when people have compassion, bravery and spiritual strength to admit their mistakes and try to pay for them in one way or another.

I understand what it is you're trying to say. However, I find that there are more admirable people to use as positive examples rather than someone who regrets what he or she did. I personally am a big fan of Rurouni Kenshin too, so don't get me wrong, he's a good guy, but he did what he did. It's good of him to try to atone for the assassinations he's done (aside from Tomoe of course), but someone who wouldn't have to do that in the first place I think would leave a more favorable impression.

I also understand what you mean by being human. I also comprehend what you're trying to stay about mistakes. I agree with you 100% about having the dignity to admit your mistakes and try to make up for them, but there were probably a lot more kids like Enishi around that we didn't hear about. We see Kenshin post-revolution as a humanitarian and a benevolent citizen of a country he helped style. However, there are still the countless families who lost their husband/son/brother, what have you to this faceless assassin who "died". They have no way (or if they do, a very slim chance) of feeling the effects of what he's doing. Those are just my thoughts, though.

[samuraix966]

Instead of using a reverse blade, why not go for a bokken w/ a plastic saya. It's fun to mimic Kenshin's attacks on a large flat piece of cardboard. A nice draw could leave a 12 inch gash from the center of the board all the way to the edge :D

[Gregory]

You may think what you want but people who dont have respect for others don't deserve to do kendo. I'm not a little boy, the "faces" I make are just something I've become accustomed to. And please, you shouldt judge others by common (or.. multiple) mistaked made in a FORUM. I dont base my life off this anime.
Its ok to dream, isnt it? I go throuigh things step by step and when I see something that doesnt work, I stop, and move on. I dont try to force it to work. And i belive my readong comprehension skills are fine for life. ^^x I mean sure, maybe I cant convince you to instead of critisize and insult me to instead tell me in a kinder matter. And I know what sarcasm is. And what about the kenshin reverse blade? *shrugs* first of all its not a Kenshiny sword... I could care less if it had the signature of the maker on it.. I'd probobly end up sanding it off.. I only got it because I like swords like this. This isnt much to get in a fight over..

you could at least say "You shouldnt attempt to imatate a fictional character, it could lead to injury. If you want to try something you should get an instructor to show you something to learn instead of doing things on your own. We don't need another hurt swordsman (or trainee or whatever.)" instead of going "YAWN -.-"

If you've read Musashi's "The Book of Five Rings" you would have learned that a swordsman must learn to respect others, even his enemys. (yes, I read this book. my instructor reccomended it to me)
So maye we can resolve this in a civil manner?

Haha!

I have to jump in, this kid is one of those people who go on kazaa, bearshare, limewire, or whatever and type in things like

"ninja"
'samurai"
"sword"
"super master"
"kendo"
etc.

And read the ebooks that come up.

I am 15, so you cant pull this "Im 14, I have to be retarded" BS on me. Honestly, stop. We are not samurai, and we dont have enemies. We dont walk around in sandals with katana and kill people. And we dont shoot fire out of our hands and save the world from demons.

By the way, what Musashi said was along the lines of chivalry. By respect others he meant other SAMURAI. You think there is a big gap between poor and rich now? You should have seen it then.

Dont base all your facts off kurosawa movies and ebooks. Those are all enhanced to make people happy.

By the way, stop watching anime all the time. Its pretty bad when you can quote the kiais that are said in cartoons. Start going to parties or something.

[Gregory]

oops sorry, didnt realize the thread was dead :P

[Kaoru]

hahaha, It's amazing people are still replying to this thread!

Kaoru

P.S. Heh, I just did myself, I just realised... :ko:

[Lloromannic]

Haha!

We are not samurai, and we dont have enemies. We dont walk around in sandals with katana and kill people. And we dont shoot fire out of our hands and save the world from demons.



Speak for yourself.

[Gregory]

Speak for yourself.


SHHHH! Im trying to make him think that kendo is just a sport!
He cant know about our rituals and sex cults!

[Lloromannic]

SHHHH! Im trying to make him think that kendo is just a sport!
He cant know about our rituals and sex cults!

Don't call them sex cults, it's a perfectly normal thing to do.

[Gregory]

Don't call them sex cults, it's a perfectly normal thing to do.


Tell that do the guys on nbc news. Ive been getting calls all day asking for an interview...

[rottunpunk]

kind of off topic i know. but theres beyblades in samurai x (and kagemusha) so ha chidokan, that shows they are cool and not just a kids toy..although they were used by kids in the films...but adults aswell. ha
:p

[Kaoru]

kind of off topic i know. but theres beyblades in samurai x (and kagemusha) so ha chidokan, that shows they are cool and not just a kids toy..although they were used by kids in the films...but adults aswell. ha
:p

No, it was just a regular toy top.

Beyblades... hate that anime! Watched it once out of idle curiosity, and couldn't stand it.

Kaoru

[Yamashita]

lol....some people ha im still replying

[kazier]

first off i want to say hello im new and this may be an old thread but im posting anyways well i have many practice swords and i want to get a real one that will not break mainly for show but i want to take it down and use it in my yard i have thin trees and no one arownd to get hurt but myself i also use blocks of wood to hit and the occasonal watermealon lol. but anyways im look for a really good sword that will be almost imposible to break i found one but im not shure could you guys and girls help me out please and if you have any advise or schools in my area witch is fortworth TX could you please let me know thank you.sorry this is the site if it dont work please let me know thanks again.


http://www.swordsofhonor.com/withka.html

[yohed55]

The L6 katana (http://www.mvforge.com) is practically indestructable. I would say just get a machete for what you plan to do.

[Gregory]

first off i want to say hello im new and this may be an old thread but im posting anyways well i have many practice swords and i want to get a real one that will not break mainly for show but i want to take it down and use it in my yard i have thin trees and no one arownd to get hurt but myself i also use blocks of wood to hit and the occasonal watermealon lol. but anyways im look for a really good sword that will be almost imposible to break i found one but im not shure could you guys and girls help me out please and if you have any advise or schools in my area witch is fortworth TX could you please let me know thank you.sorry this is the site if it dont work please let me know thanks again.


http://www.swordsofhonor.com/withka.html

It isnt a game. You dont use a sword to clear brush. You use a mower.

A sword is not a mower.

[kazier]

well thank you for that but im not using it to clear my lawn i was looking for a safe cheap way to practic with my sword and i would use a machete but its not the same feal but thank you for your consern on my lawn but i was realy looking for some advise on what kinda sword i should use and what schools are avalable in my area and i only hit blocks of wood and small trees to practic so if you have any more usfull information i would be very greatfull thank you.

[Gregory]

well thank you for that but im not using it to clear my lawn i was looking for a safe cheap way to practic with my sword and i would use a machete but its not the same feal but thank you for your consern on my lawn but i was realy looking for some advise on what kinda sword i should use and what schools are avalable in my area and i only hit blocks of wood and small trees to practic so if you have any more usfull information i would be very greatfull thank you.

message kaoru.

[kazier]

message kaoru.


sorry i must not get what your saying couse i dont understand im new to all this

[kazier]

(message kaoru.)


sorry i must not get what your saying couse i dont understand im new to all this

[Gregory]

look at the top of the page, she will help you.

[kazier]

ok sorry and i hope i did not make any one mad like i sead im new to this and i just want to get good at it and im just doing what i think is good for me to learn atm and thank you

[PatientDaruma]

All this craziness aside, and all anime references ignored, the act of drawing and cutting in one fluid motion is in the realm of, as previously stated, iaido, and its older antecedent iaijutsu, which is also called battojutsu, or by the more modern batto-do. The transition from batto from -jutsu to -do is like most other modern budo; the name was changed when the techniques ceased to be actively practiced as a killeng art and became more a method for personal betterment. Both iaido, at least of the Muso Shinden Ryu, and modern batto-do practice actual cutting, from a draw in some instances, against rolled straw targets.
However, it should be noted that the initial cut in most iaido kata isn't meant to actually cut, but to create an opening to deliver a definitive strike, and that the first cut isn't just a matter of speed, but a certain lazy precision that comes with practice that makes it appear that the sword just appeared in hand.
I'm uncertain of the details of batto-do in this resepct, as I've not begun practicing it actively yet. I've been polishing my iaido first. These observations are simply that, based on my utterly incomplete knowledge of the swordarts.
Hope it helps.

[splice]

All this craziness aside, and all anime references ignored, the act of drawing and cutting in one fluid motion is in the realm of, as previously stated, iaido, and its older antecedent iaijutsu, which is also called battojutsu, or by the more modern batto-do. The transition from batto from -jutsu to -do is like most other modern budo; the name was changed when the techniques ceased to be actively practiced as a killeng art and became more a method for personal betterment.

Sorry, I'm afraid you are wrong on this. Iaido, iaijutsu, batto-do, battojutsu, all are terms of modern usage. They were used in the past, but nothing was standard. This is a quote from Dr. Karl Friday, professor of Japanese History, University of Georgia:

Standardization, of course, is an interesting phenomenon. As I've noted repeatedly (here and elsewhere), there really WAS none prior to modern times. In Tokugawa period and earlier sources swordsmanship is referred to as "kenjutsu," "kendo," "kenpo," "hyoho" (also read as "heiho"), "tojutsu," "toho," "gekken," "gekishi no jutsu," and several other names, with no apparent distinction of form or content. (The prevailing term during the Tokugawa period seems to have been "hyoho" ["heiho"], BTW.) It's only in this century that "kenjutsu" and "kendo" have emerged as the more-or-less standard terms.

You can try to differentiate between batto and iai, but the fact is that these are generic terms, and the school itself decides what to use. It's not imposed because you're practicing a killing art or not. The art I practice, Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu, has been called iaido, iaijutsu, iai-heiho and batto jutsu, but it's the same art regardless of what term the organization uses.


Both iaido, at least of the Muso Shinden Ryu, and modern batto-do practice actual cutting, from a draw in some instances, against rolled straw targets.
Again not quite correct. Tameshigiri can be mandated on the level of the organization, or it can be practiced independantly by clubs. There is no wide ranging directive as to Muso Shinden ryu doing tameshigiri. Some clubs do, some don't. Some organizations do, some don't. There are obviously cases where the whole style practices tameshigiri, such as Nami Ryu and Toyama Ryu, for example.

[PatientDaruma]

I won't argue with your post, as it is entirely correct. My dirrection was from a purely modern standpoint. Currently, there are differences between iaido, and batto-do, but not many. They are governed by different, but associated, bodies in the US, and practice different cirriculum. Batto-do practices tameshigiri regurlarly, and focuses on just a few kata, while iaido is primarily kata. The distinction I made about the Muso Shinden Ryu doing tameshigiri is simply that I've read about some other ryu of iaido that not only do not practice tameshigiri, but are opposed to it entirely.
Again, from the modern view, kendo differs from kenjutsu. Kendo, which was also referred to as gekken when it first came to the US, through Hawaii, is as we know it, a practice contained within certain guidlines. Kenjutsu is a wide and varied practice that keeps alive the older, usual ryu specific techniques of the old bugei.
Heiho was a catchall term for the Japanese fighting arts, and reflects their unique mindedness about things. The character for heiho can be written to mean either "war" or "peace".
Most of these terms were interchangable, once-upon-a-time. But, if you look into the evolutions, you will find details at a change in mindset of their practice about the same time a particular name started to stick. You had specific teachers seeking to reach specific goals in each of the arts that decided on a name that suited best.
Like the change from jujutsu to judo, the common Japanese thought was that -Jutsu denoted a series of techniques, while-do refelcted a Way to follow.

[pgsmith]

My dirrection was from a purely modern standpoint. Currently, there are differences between iaido, and batto-do, but not many.
Nope, sorry, still not quite correct. Kendo is accepted as what it is since it is so popular that it has entered the common vernacular. The example I always give for the interchangeability of -do and -jutsu, batto and iai, is Toyama ryu. Many people are familiar with Toyama ryu as it is a widely spread sword art. It was formed in the 1920's specifically to teach the Japanese military how to cut properly with their swords. Later, the three teachers that helped put together the original curriculum each headed their own line of the school. Today, there are three lines of Toyama ryu. They all teach the same kata, and they all include tameshigiri as a large part of their curriculum. One branch is called Toyama ryu battodo. One branch is Toyama ryu battojutsu. The third branch is called Toyama ryu iaido. Another good example is Shin Shin Sekiguchi ryu. It is a koryu and it is known by two different names. Shin Shin Sekiguchi ryu battojutsu, and Higo ryu iaido. Same school, not even different branches.

[PatientDaruma]

Interchangability of names among several sets of identical techniques raises the question as to why there are different names. Often this can be attributed, where documented references exist, to divergence in mindset and theory about the application of said techniques. In this divergence, this altered thinking from swordsman to swordsman, you could likely find the roots of the particular name of a given school, even within the same style. Mechanically the techniques remain the same, the only difference is in the thinking. This, of course, if esoteric, and the validity of such would be tested by the purity with which is was transmitted from teacher to student.

[splice]

Interchangability of names among several sets of identical techniques raises the question as to why there are different names. Often this can be attributed, where documented references exist, to divergence in mindset and theory about the application of said techniques. In this divergence, this altered thinking from swordsman to swordsman, you could likely find the roots of the particular name of a given school, even within the same style. Mechanically the techniques remain the same, the only difference is in the thinking. This, of course, if esoteric, and the validity of such would be tested by the purity with which is was transmitted from teacher to student.

You're still making the same argument, regardless of all the evidence that is brought to you.

You can keep thinking that there is a difference in thinking that is denoted by the name used. The truth is, you're wrong. It doesn't matter how many messages you post saying the exact same thing, batto is not fundamentally different from iai. Again, there may be a general trend, but it is certainly not the rule, and you shouldn't assume it is.

Shin Shin Sekiguchi ryu is the exact same thing as Higo ryu. You respond by saying that since the name is different, the thinking behind it must be as well. However, you're just assuming. Paul practices the art and KNOWS. Your argument doesn't hold water.

Muso Shinden Ryu is called iaido or battojutsu depending on who you speak to. The practice is the same, the waza are the same, the tameshigiri practice (or lack thereof) is the same, the thinking is the same. The difference in naming has to do with different branches, organizations, clubs. Not differences in technique or thinking. This is the same, I believe, for Toyama Ryu and Shin Shin Sekiguchi ryu. The same, in fact, for Muso Jikiden Eishin ryu iai-do/jutsu/heiho/etc.

[PatientDaruma]

I wasn't intentionally making any argument at all. Since our opinions are obviously divergent, I'll politely forgoe any further discussion.

[fifthchamber]

And what about the Ryuha that use "抜刀術”　and pronounce it "Iaijutsu"? It's all the same either way....We use Iai/Batto jutsu in Takeuchi Ryu...Just to make sure you know what we mean..
Funny how in Japan most people have no concerns over the names given to these things....I have heard the Kenjutsu sections of what we do referred to as Kendo and Kenpo..As well as Saide..The point is the same though..It all means the same thing..It's a western thing to be caught up on the names of these things I have found...
Regards.