Do Samurai exist in the modern day?

[kusunoki]

I am new to this forum and for the past couple of weeks I have spent time reading the different ideas from people and their views on Bushido.

I was disapointed to one day read that someone wrote that "You can not be Samurai anymore" It was not the words that dissapointed me it was the fact that it was stated to someone else. In my view no one has this right, for this is just another form of control, it is indocternation.
It was what the film the matrix was all about.

When I was a young boy training at about the age of nine I once asked my Master, When do you become a warrior?
His reply was said with a stern tone, "When you start acting like one"

So you see it is my beleif that it is an internal experience, It may be an act of disapline but it can be achieved.

I am not dissolutioned I do not believe that you can walk about the common street wearing your sword by your side. Things change things always change
and this is no longer possible. But acting and conducting yourself in a respectful and honurable manner is still within our grasp.

How could this be wrong?

The question of is it possible to be samurai in the modern day is not important, it is all a matter of perception.

[Odachi]

Would you settle for being Ashigaru ?

[Raiza]

I am not dissolutioned I do not believe that you can walk about the common street wearing your sword by your side. Things change things always change
and this is no longer possible. But acting and conducting yourself in a respectful and honurable manner is still within our grasp.

How could this be wrong?

The question of is it possible to be samurai in the modern day is not important, it is all a matter of perception.

Ah, you misunderstand. No, you (and I mean nobody else either) cannot become a samurai. It's a noble's title that was abolished over a hundred years ago. No one has a daimyo to serve, a han to look after. But there's nothing wrong with being an honourable and respectful person. One does not have to be a samurai to be a warrior, practise martial arts like kendo or try to make themselves better inside and out.

Follow the principles of Budo? Refine your mind and body to be the best person you can possibly be through martial arts? By all means, go for it. Most of us here are trying to do the same thing.

There's a nice essay on Budo philosophy right here (http://www.yoseikanbudo.com/eng/essaygv1stdan.shtml). If you want more information on the subject, please don't hesitate to ask and someone here will provide you with more information.

[Hitokiri]

In my opinion, being a samurai as far as society or social ranking is concerned, is (like raiza said) not possible anymore. However, although the era of the samurai ended over 100 years ago, their philosophy still exists and I totally agree with all of you, if you say Bushido and the other principles of Budo haven't disappeared. :) :rambo:
As for myself, I try to honour the mentality of the ancient samurai and someway try to live after their rules, but of course it doesn't always work: sometimes because the world and people too have changed, sometimes because I'm not really persistent and strong enough to always strive for the best without having doubts and questionning myself and what I'm doing. But I'm working hard on this aspect :D
Kendo seems to help me a great deal, and I'm always trying to get better and stronger in order to honour this fascinating sport, but also in order to get to know myself a lot better :) And at least I try to be sincere and to help people who need me as often as I can. It's not easy, but I think it's worth the effort :) ;)

Ganbatte kudasai nozomi to yume o genjitsu ni suru tame ni! :)

[mystic_kendoka]

samurai do not exist. period.

[Shiro]

The Concept of Kendo:

The concept of Kendo is to discipline the human character through the application of the principles of the Katana (sword).

================================================== ========

The purpose of practicing Kendo is:

To mold the mind and body,

To cultivate a vigorous spirit,

And through correct and rigid training,

To strive for improvement in the art of Kendo,

To hold in esteem human courtesy and honor,

To associate with others with sincerity,

And to forever pursue the cultivation of oneself.

This will make one be able:

To love his/her country and society,

To contribute to the development of culture

And to promote peace and prosperity among all peoples.

("The Concept of Kendo" was established by All Japan Kendo Federation in 1975.)

================================================== ========

Forget about samurai, it's an abolished title. Do things wih commitment and you will go far.

[Khabbi]

hey shiro we meet again , in another OMG what a crap thread , lol

"When I was a young boy training at about the age of nine I once asked my Master, When do you become a warrior?"

What Dojo do u go to ? what art ? "wardo" ? , if i asked my sensei when i become a warrior , he would just look at me strangly and walk away , id prob be banned for life .

"acting and conducting yourself in a respectful and honurable manner is still within our grasp. "

Since when do u have to be a samurai to be a nice guy ? , u dont need to follow the bushido so u can be a nice guy , it would be like , I wanna move to france and become frensh so i can be a nice guy , cant u just be yourself and be a nice guy ? catch my drift ?

You ppl are all nuts !

Khabbi

[kundalini]

You could only be born a samurai even back in the era when they existed. It is but a name. You could be everything a samurai ever was but you just can't go by that name. The name may not exist but the spirit of samurai lives on in any who would want it. Keep the concept of honour alive. Its a dying thing and something many take for granted. Live by the sword and die by the sword. Die a good death. Be a good and honest person. The samurai all died but their spirit is eternal so we can learn from them and remember the old ways.

[Aden]

You could only be born a samurai even back in the era when they existed.

Hmm - think that is not historically correct - being born into the samurai class was basically the only way to enter it only for the 260 odd year period it existed, after Hideyoshi froze social mobility shortly before 1600 AD and seperated the warrior class from the farmers. Before then controlling a bit of paddy land sufficient to have tennants was enough to get you into the bottom end of the bushi and military prowess could take you further.

However once the the samurai class was a legally defined entity it could be abolished by administrative fiat and there are no more samurai.

Aden (who yesterday in his university history final incorrectly identified a clause from the Chokosabe daimyo law code as being from the Tokugawa so he knows he is often incorrect!)

[R A Sosnowski]

Gentlemen,

Seems we are a bit off topic here. Interesting discussion, but more in line with Lounge rather than Iaido.

[Khabbi]

Move it =) or even better delet the hole thread =) \o/ =)
was a BS thread anyway



Khabbi

[Shiro]

Move it =) or even better delet the hole thread =) \o/ =)
was a BS thread anyway



Khabbi

You definitely don't like this kind of threads....... :D

[Khabbi]

what tipped u off Shiro ?? :smiley: lol

[Shiro]

what tipped u off Shiro ?? :smiley: lol

Just a hunch...... :D

Actually, it's rather curious the wannabe-samurai threads are so active during the The Last Samurai period, don't you think?

Nice signature, btw. I love that bookk! :D

[Khabbi]

Thanx Shiro :smiley: , Found a Terry Pratchett quote page , couldent stop laughin . Im gonna have to re-read all his Discworld books , they are pure gold.

When "Top Gun" came out , the US Navy and Air Force had like a 80% more applicants for flight school or somthing , Guess Tom Cruis (sp ?) wants a 80% increse in Samurai wannabes :smiley:

[Raiza]

Guess Tom Cruis (sp ?) wants a 80% increse in Samurai wannabes :smiley:

More like an 80% increase in Scientology enrollment...you should see the comparisons he tries to make between Scientology and bushido! Scary!

[kundalini]

More like an 80% increase in Scientology enrollment...you should see the comparisons he tries to make between Scientology and bushido! Scary!
That sounds pretty mad. Do you have a link so we can check it out? I can't stand scientology so this really intreges me.

[chidokan]

although they are no longer described as samurai there is still a little 'one upmanship' of the descendants of samurai families, along the lines of 'well my great grandad was one you know'. I saw this happen at a museum we visited in a little village on the coast. The girl showing us round was furious at the place being closed to the public so I saw the whole "do you know who I am?" thing, along the lines of my family owned this place and who are you to tell me what to do in my family home.... It worked as well.

[mystic_kendoka]

what's scientology?

[Raiza]

That sounds pretty mad. Do you have a link so we can check it out? I can't stand scientology so this really intreges me.

As per your request...
Some stuff here (http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=newsmaker&id=130).
"Buddhism is the grandfather of Scientology" (http://au.news.yahoo.com/040109/19/n84l.html). That quote comes up a lot.
A Scientology-related assortment of stuff right (http://www.itsamystery.ca/blogger/2003_11_01_idj_archive.html) here.]

What I can't stand is he's so energetically using the movie that has nothing to do with Scientology to plug his religion.

Another gem...
"I think [psychiatry] should be outlawed." (http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_detail/0,1227,249599-1-455,00.html)

[katsumoto]

I am extremely new to this forum but i have read many of your beliefs on here regarding the samurai. I believe that even though we don't see people walking up and down the streets with swords, the ideal of what a samurai truly is still exists.

I myself am not an expert on the matter of truly understanding the life of a samurai, but i want to believe in the ideal. When you believe in the ideal nothing and no one can stop you. Honor to most these days are just a word but back then in the days of the samurai it was a way of life. The way of the samurai is to live and die by the sword, the sword being a weapon...i believe that this wasn't just a weapon it was a tool to which to live out their live in a belief. A belief that they would be willing to die for. I can respect this way of living, and in many ways wish i too had lived during this era.

I myself search for this Honor as if i can track it down like a dog, but it is within. yet i still keep looking.

[willszenith]

I am extremely new to this forum but i have read many of your beliefs on here regarding the samurai. I believe that even though we don't see people walking up and down the streets with swords, the ideal of what a samurai truly is still exists.

I myself am not an expert on the matter of truly understanding the life of a samurai, but i want to believe in the ideal. When you believe in the ideal nothing and no one can stop you. Honor to most these days are just a word but back then in the days of the samurai it was a way of life. The way of the samurai is to live and die by the sword, the sword being a weapon...i believe that this wasn't just a weapon it was a tool to which to live out their live in a belief. A belief that they would be willing to die for. I can respect this way of living, and in many ways wish i too had lived during this era.

I myself search for this Honor as if i can track it down like a dog, but it is within. yet i still keep looking.


Intresting insight, But sometimes i wish that people would do a little more reading into the samurai, no doubt there was great acts of honor and courage but there was also some pretty terrible acts commited by many a famous and noble daiymo, sometimes its easy to romance about the past, stick to good budo , hard training and respect everyone else and i think thats all you will ever need.

kind regards

[Mr. T.]

Wow, WTF is going on? What's with the thread necromancy?

[rottunpunk]

there seems to be quite a bit of it lately
perhaps google search engines are working overtime?
:p

[Decado]

Wow, WTF is going on? What's with the thread necromancy?

Yeah, it's dead boring isn't it?

[Decado]

I am extremely new to this forum but i have read many of your beliefs on here regarding the samurai. I believe that even though we don't see people walking up and down the streets with swords, the ideal of what a samurai truly is still exists.

I myself am not an expert on the matter of truly understanding the life of a samurai, but i want to believe in the ideal. When you believe in the ideal nothing and no one can stop you. Honor to most these days are just a word but back then in the days of the samurai it was a way of life. The way of the samurai is to live and die by the sword, the sword being a weapon...i believe that this wasn't just a weapon it was a tool to which to live out their live in a belief. A belief that they would be willing to die for. I can respect this way of living, and in many ways wish i too had lived during this era.

I myself search for this Honor as if i can track it down like a dog, but it is within. yet i still keep looking.

Of course, you make the assumption that you would be one of the ruling elite which the samurai were and not one of the majority of peasants that that the samurai used to chop into dogmeat every now and again just for a bit of a workout and to test that the sword was still in good condition.

Or am I just participating in the raising of a dead thread?

[tango]

this might be an odd question, but can you determine if someone's family was once samurai by only their family name?

[rottunpunk]

perhaps not by name only, as there are many people with the sme name bt not related in the world
my surnames bell, but as far as i know its nothing to do with the whiskey makers (thank goodness)
a family tree thing would help i guess
:p

[MikeH]

this might be an odd question, but can you determine if someone's family was once samurai by only their family name?

Possibly, wouldn't really know myself. But getting back to the ludicrous idea of modern day samurai. I have a friend who can trace her family back to Shimazu the Daimyo of Satsuma (or to one of his concubines or something I forget the details), a pretty important family Shimazu, hugely influential in the Shogunate and later the Meiji government. Yet strangely she wouldn't call herself a samurai.... can't think why. Oh hang on. It's because they don't exist any more, that's it....

</sarcasm>

Mike

[Galo]

I think this stinking rotting thread should be close....

And just to stick to the topic.... samurai DON't exist anymore :eek:

[Ignatz]

. . .And just to stick to the topic.... samurai DON't exist anymore :eek:

That's exactly what they want you to think.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Wait a minute, that's the ninjers.

Nevermind.

[rottunpunk]

That's exactly what they want you to think.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Wait a minute, that's the ninjers.

Nevermind.


hehe. :D
are you sure youre not british?
must spread more round etc
:p

[NinjasHateKWF]

Samurai no longer exist because we ninjas killed them all. Since there are so many wannabe samurai on KWF we have set our sights on you.
::NINJA WANISH::

[still learning]

::NINJA WANISH::

Ninja Wank-ish.........

[willszenith]

http://www.ashidakim.com/pics/autograph.jpg


dreamy ninjas....

[absenteekendoka]

Samurai no longer exist because we ninjas killed them all. Since there are so many wannabe samurai on KWF we have set our sights on you.
::NINJA WANISH::

Holy Shit! It's Chekov from Star Trek! I always knew he was a Ninja....

[Manuka]

Do Samurai exist in the modern day?

Absolutely, they all live with Elvis, Amelia Earhart is the current Daimo, I think Anastasia Romanov is a Samurai also

[Fonsz]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Manuka again.

[Mafoota]

Samurai only exist in the over active imaginations of the uneducated.

[johnhbf]

Yet this topic pulled you in and made you join us just to say that.

[willszenith]

Epic thread

but as about as pointless as mr point driving to point town to buy a new pointy hat, only to find out that thay are all sold out....

so there are no samurai, nessie's, vikings, templar knights, ninja's, daiymo's,Bigfoot,saracans,italian plumbers called mario.....

[johnhbf]

Quote from somewhere: Whether or not God exists is not as important as whether or not the belief in God exists. So in that spirit, I believe that if you or I or the OP want to believe in the continued existance of Samurai - who are we to deny them that right? ;)

[Mafoota]

Yet this topic pulled you in and made you join us just to say that.

Ha, I joined a couple of weeks ago but this was the only thread I've seen that I felt I could comment on. :o

[ShinKenshi]

I believe that if you or I or the OP want to believe in the continued existance of Samurai - who are we to deny them that right? ;)The simple fact that they don't stops that argument right in its tracks. If you want to split hairs, the samurai class itself no longer exists but arguable the spirit of the class lives.

[Ookami7]

In actuality no the class dosn`t exist any more, in spirit one could argue yes, others might apply the name..... had a young lady that was hawking various nihonshu refer to me as "Mr Samurai" lol just a quick cute way to get my attention and yes it worked lol. (During this incident I was wearing yukata and hakama and was during a summer festival lol)

[Kent Enfield]

(During this incident I was wearing yukata and hakama and was during a summer festival lol)
Why were you wearing fairly formal pants with a bathrobe?

[willszenith]

whats a spirit of a class? and can a westerner doing a martial art even scratch the surface?

And that class , the same class that with kiyomasa invaded korea, nobunaga wiping out anything alive on mount hiei, shingen over throwing his own father, musashi killing xxx amount of opponents, by me doing iai does that make me understand these men better? well no, the warrior philosophy ( ex hagakure etc) were written in times of peace ( well police state tokugawa) , no doubt there was noble deeds and honorable acts, but these are present in all cultures.

Sometimes duty and honour are just ways of controlling your own retainers, the shingen house rules ( 99 precepts or whatever its called) is a great example of this

[Aden]

The topic that cannot die - like the samurai - born 2004- reborn 2007 and now reborn again in 2009!

[Ookami7]

Kent I would`t consider the version we use for budo training to be that fancy. Not compared to the type you use for a formal kimono. Just individual style..... if I am going to wear yukata or kimono might as well... simple as that.

(Not to mention the yukata aren`t always bathrobs lol..... $100 plus versions I have seen) but that aside.

[Josh Reyer]

Kent I would`t consider the version we use for budo training to be that fancy. Not compared to the type you use for a formal kimono. Just individual style..... if I am going to wear yukata or kimono might as well... simple as that.

(Not to mention the yukata aren`t always bathrobs lol..... $100 plus versions I have seen) but that aside.True, but yukata and hakama together are generally seen as a faux pas.

Of course, the really strict kimono enthusiasts contend that yukata shouldn't be worn in public at all, much less with a kaku-obi, so...

[Ookami7]

Yup.....your damned if you do and damned if you don`t lol. For me it just feels weird wearing a yukata/ kimono w/ out the hakama since use it all time for budo. Mixed reaction on this one as well some glances what the hell. Other people that I talked to loved it.

[johnhbf]

.......... post deleted

[chidokan]

the answer to the original question is NO. now can we please close this thread down or move it to the lounge??? It annoys me when sensible stuff gets knocked down the list by mega thread drifts...which have nothing to do with iaido.

[Peter West]

Strange how many people associate being Samurai with being a nice guy. Did it never occur to anyone to remove the rose tinted glasses, forget the romantic literature and remember that these people were warriors, politicians, jostling for position within their own clans, they were pompous overbearing arrogant... The work kigurai in budo has taken on a the meaning of pride, but in common Japanese it means arrogance. There is good reason for this, I think. All the codification of class structure and bushido and so on was to try and maintain some kind of order. Anyone who overstepped the mark was required to kill themselves.

The whole Budo/Samurai thing has become a romantic fantasy in which a bygone age, through ignoring the reality and remembering only certain aspects out of context, seems to be a wonderful escape from the immediate problems of the life we have now.

[Fonsz]

The whole Budo/Samurai thing has become a romantic fantasy in which a bygone age, through ignoring the reality and remembering only certain aspects out of context, seems to be a wonderful escape from the immediate problems of the life we have now.
Here I was thinking that the Kendo community was a highly motivated upright kind of people. And now you say that we are just stuck up Kendo nerds? You have just ruined my day and my reason for living. I thank you very much for this good start of the day........:hurt::hurt:

[Peter West]

Here I was thinking that the Kendo community was a highly motivated upright kind of people. And now you say that we are just stuck up Kendo nerds? You have just ruined my day and my reason for living. I thank you very much for this good start of the day........:hurt::hurt:

I don't think I said that at all. I didn't make any comment about modern budo

[willszenith]

Surely this should be in the lounge.

My concerns with the 'samurai' are something I have witnessed first hand.

Last year I attended a japanese festival, whilst there An iaidoka decided to dress samurai, unfortunatly this costume in turn turned out to be a female haori, a striped hakama and nike socks. Now because this person was a martial artist thay felt free to be a self appointed authority , and on what basis because once a week they wave a sword and wear a hakama?

They also decided to try and wear their sword in a public corridor, and was politely informed to remove it.

This is a good example of what we all should be aware of in this 'samurai' fixation its escapism but one that should be kept in check. People need to learn the culture , learn the good and equally the bad , ettiquette is essential outside the dojo as well as in, but dont pick and mix from a culture take the heros and become a fantasy, this is dangerous, not just to yourself but to others....

[chidokan]

I usually associate the words 'modern day samurai' with 'nutcase'...:grin:

[Shmur]

I usually associate the words 'modern day samurai' with 'nutcase'...:grin:


Surely you're not talking about Ghost Dog (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0165798/) in that tone of voice?

[willszenith]

Surely you're not talking about Ghost Dog (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0165798/) in that tone of voice?

bust a cap in your hakama time.....