Making that infamous air gap in men / Problem with ears

[olo]

Hey there!
First, I'm new here (though I've been reading for some time) so I hope this is the right section :)
I've been doing Kendo in bogu for around half a year now. Since the beginning I always had some problems with my men. Like getting a headache, couldn't tie himo tight enough, etc. Most of those I was able to resolve by now, eg. by using another way to put on the tenugui and just trying around at home. However, there is one thing I still can't figure out and nobody in my dojo really knows a solution (reason being that they don't have that problem at all). I read and heard several times about making some kind of 'air gap' in order to give your ears some space. Now, I just can't managae to do that. When I finish tieing the himo the men sits very well. Only problem is the right and left part press really hard onto my ears. When I don't do anything against this, after 30 minutes or so it gets really hard to endure and unpleasant, I think that is not normal. That's why I try to reach into the men from behind with my fingers and, like, push the sides of the men away from the ear. That actually makes it easier because some pressure is taken away BUT: First, the man doesn't fit as tight anymore and it is rather lose (depending on how much i push the sides away) and second I just can't reach so far to actually get to my ears. The maximum is to get to where my ears end (or start, depending on how you look at it) with my fingers and push it from there but the part of the men thats in front of that (meaning nearer to the face) stays in the same place and still puts pressure on my ear which hurts and results in a really bad situation after 1 hour or so. So this isn't really a solution. I don't know what I'm doing wrong here, the himos are crossing around the height of my eyes (maybe a bit higher) so they are not directly on my ears. They rather from a triangle around the ear so only the actual men presses against my ears. Does anybody know how to either make proper air gaps or another way to remove that pressure from my ears? As I said nobody in my dojo really understands me, they all just tie their men and somehow don't feel anything to begin with so they don't need to do anything. Makes me kinda jealous :/
Sorry for this wall of text but i hope i could make you understand what my question is :)
Thanks for all replies!

[JuJitsuGiraffe]

I had the same problem for the first month or so of my bogu experience.

What I do now, is tie my tenugui so that it covers the majority of both my ears. Then when I'm finished tying my men I grab it from behind, one side at a time on the shoulder parts and just give it a little tug.

Hopefully that made sense.

[olo]

I had the same problem for the first month or so of my bogu experience.

What I do now, is tie my tenugui so that it covers the majority of both my ears. Then when I'm finished tying my men I grab it from behind, one side at a time on the shoulder parts and just give it a little tug.

Hopefully that made sense.
Thanks for your answer! But sorry, I don't quite understand it. Are you just pulling your tenugui out a bit from behind?
By the way, I forgot to mention I even bought something you could call 'side padding' for the men but it didn't help at all. Maybe I just have super sensitive ears? :(

[Toecutter]

I used to have the same problem, what worked for me is I dropped the Chichigawa down so instead of it being on the 4th rung it’s on the 3rd (ask your sensei before you do this). Next it just takes time for the men to break in, especially if you have a tight stitching 2mm. When I changed the way I tied the himos the men took about 6 months to respond to the new way so that I wouldn't have to adjust it during practice. Something else that helped me is after you tie the himos, and you pull the area out with your fingers by your ear, take the opposite hand and slide it up to your ear and try and feather out the men even more. It takes practice and lots of fiddling with to get it right but it eventually worked for me. I have a long and narrow face so that might have been the problem as off the shelf bogu doesn't fit great on me.

Also I almost forgot you can tie the tenugui in the style that covers the ear, I did this for a little while and didn't like it but it may help you.

[olo]

Again thanks for your answer.
I will try putting the Chichigawa one level lower right now.
I forgot to mention that I use a rent bogu from my club so it is already broken in as it is not new. What I really wonder about is, when you feather out the men, can you actually reach your ear or do you just get (as me) to the end of it? Also, doesn't the men get rather lose for you if you feather it out?
And I think I already use that method of tieing the tenugui over the ears. It did help a bit compared to the one I used before but didn't solve the problem completely. Thanks.

[JuJitsuGiraffe]

Thanks for your answer! But sorry, I don't quite understand it. Are you just pulling your tenugui out a bit from behind?
By the way, I forgot to mention I even bought something you could call 'side padding' for the men but it didn't help at all. Maybe I just have super sensitive ears? :(

I thought it might be a bit confusing.

Step1) Tie your tenugui so it covers your ears
2) Put on your men as normal
3) Place one hand on the grill of your men, and then reach with your other hand to grab the shoulder flap that hangs off your helmet. I grab it right under the bottom himo, then give it a little tug.
4) Do step 3 again, just switch hands and switching the side that you loosen.

[Toecutter]

The himo goes just under the ear lobe then when looping it back it goes above the top of the ear, creating > (from the side), the knot should be just under the bump portion of your head. I've seen some people tie the himos so the v meets on the edge of the futon, personally mine don't come together until they meet in the back of my head. It really depends on the shape of your face, so in my case I have a very wide V going from the mengane to the knot in the back, some have a shallow, it just depends on what's comfortable to you, but the himo shouldn't be going over your ear and you should be able to create a little space for your ears. To answer your question I tie my men very tight, it doesn't move at all during practice and I have no problem reaching under the himo and feathering out the ear pocket, again your men will have to break into this new position so it might take a little while, unless it’s very soft. Also for what it’s worth try putting on your men and explaining in detail to your sensei, it’s hard to diagnose problems from afar, someone close at hand might see something easily remedied.

[olo]

I thought it might be a bit confusing.

Step1) Tie your tenugui so it covers your ears
2) Put on your men as normal
3) Place one hand on the grill of your men, and then reach with your other hand to grab the shoulder flap that hangs off your helmet. I grab it right under the bottom himo, then give it a little tug.
4) Do step 3 again, just switch hands and switching the side that you loosen.
Okay, I understand that much better :D Thanks for the explanation, I will try that together with the new chichigawa placement later and let you know how it worked out :)

Edit: Also, thanks for your deeper explanation, toecutter. I will try to explain that again to my sensei if it doesn't work out with your tips.

[olo]

I apologize for double post but wanted to keep you a bit up to date.
I tried out the tips you told me and some worked at least a bit! Thanks for all of them. Still I don't feel quite comfortable as it is and my sensei is sick so I couldn't ask him yet. Something that I wondered about though is, when you look at someone with men on from the side: Should you be able to see nothing of his head or a bit or doesn't it matter at all? Because I think that when I look at most people from the side I only see the actual men and not their head (with tenugui) but when you look at me from the side you can clearly see the back part of the head coming out, so to say. I just wondered, does that mean the men is too little or doesn't it matter?
Thanks for all replies!

[Toecutter]

I don't know the answer to that, I've seen plenty of people, myself included where part of your head does stick out, not much but it does poke out a little bit. I think it just depends on the size of your head. I know you can get a longer futon length in the men but not sure about the actual width.

[R Stroud]

It is also a normal problem for people who tie their men flaps up in the wrong orientation during storage. The crease/fold on each men tare should be on a 45 deg angle over the top of your ear. It should not be a fold at 90 deg to the long direction of the men tare. If you post a pic of your men when it is tied on your head, taken from the front, it would be easy to verify.

To get the diagonal fold the men should be tied up with the men tare flaps over the men gane grill.

[olo]

Thanks for that tip but I believe I am already doing that correctly, as it perfectly fits the way I store the men. Still thank you!

[Dezza]

I cheated and bought these http://www.eurokendo.com/product/product_view.php?gid=82&page=1&caid=040000&sort=g_sort&orderby=desc

[Lloromannic]

Instead of pulling the men buton from around your ears, try pulling from the shoulder flaps. Grab the end of the shoulder flaps and pull them forwards, this should also relieve pressure from the ear area hopefully without messing up the pressure too badly. Try to change the chichigawa as well as maybe tying it a bit higher. If none of this hurts it is very likely that the men is the wrong size.

[Massimo]

Hi olo, why don't you put a pic where we can see it and try to understand better?
Where did you buy the men?

[olo]

Hey everyone!
I know I haven't answered in a while but I was really busy and stuff, sorry :/
Anyway, after trying dozens of things, I think I found the solution by simply using another Men. The old one just didn't fit really well, after all. Thanks again to everyone who gave me tips and advice, I learned a lot!