Last Samurai and Kill Bill effects

[Tato]

I'm a bit curious to see if other dojos are having/suffering the same massive incorporation of new kenshi in the last couple of months, due to those top selling films.

And what kind of effect is producing on the dojo organization.

In our case, the profesors in charge of running the dojo are a bit overhelmed by new people asking the usual things (price, procedure, equipement, safety, etc, etc), but tens of times, instead of a couple a week.

Then we need to dedicate a lot more of resources to those new people, even dedicating one or two lower dans or higher kyus to run the training for them (even I had to, with only a couple of years of bogu, and I know that I'm far to know sufficent kendo to be even an ocasional ad-hoc teacher).

Now, what do you think about this, which is the best way to cope to those situations?

Rei

[Odachi]

I am starting kendo in March because there are so many new people who started in January at the dojo I will be attending ( they only start people the first of each month ) that they decided to give the new students two months to get ready for the regular class instead of the usual one month. I also understand that the March beginners will also be a large class (guess around twenty five people).

I must say, although I have seen both movies, neither one has influenced me to start kendo. It was a change in work schedule and the break up of a relationship that gives me the opportunity to start. I do know that there will be some people there because of Last Samurai, unfortunatly I would not expect them to last.

[Ren Blade]

There will be more sword play movies coming out this year. The new Zatoichi remake by Takeshi Kitano was recently made and also just bought by Miramax. Miramax is planning to release Kitano's Zatoichi on June 4, 2004.

http://www.miramax.com/zatoichi/index.html (http://www.miramax.com/zatoichi/index.html)

http://www.apple.com/trailers/miramax/zatoichi.html

My advice to just have patience with new beginners who are enthiastic at your dojo because of a couple of movies. They will either stay or leave after you show them the proper way of the art. Don't expect much from beginners as you teach them the basics. Who knows, you may change these people from wanting to swash buckle with a Katana to real Martial Artists in due time. Because since they do not know any better, you can teach them the truth. Remember, patience is an attribute of a Martial Artist.

[Dr. Hellsing]

yeah...they don't last...i don't like them(not new people but people who join beacuse of movies)...at least they have to give money for a month...untill they quit.

[Dr. Hellsing]

noooooooooooooooooo, god damn miramax.

[Arnold Strong]

I just joined my dojo, but it's not because of the movies. I was actually considering it for years, but never got around to it. With that said, my sensei said that there were 3x more newbies than expected. They closed their newbie acceptance(which usually lasts a month to only one week). Because of this, they may consider newbie acceptance in the early summer(rather than the fall).

[Ren Blade]

I hate Miramax too. I'm looking for the DVD of the movie. I heard it released in France already.

Here's one of the more original trailers of the Zatoichi remake that's not by Miramax.
http://office-kitano.co.jp/zatoichi/qt2_small.html

As for beginners, I don't really care anymore. Some can be changed to see the difference between the real art and a fantasy that a movie provides and come to appreciate and love the art for what it is. Others will just leave early in their training. Be patient til either or will happen. The potentials will be weeded out.

[berghaan]

I think things like these movies can be a good thing because it sparks interest It is not as if all people who gain interest because of a movie cant be serious.

I believe my own interest for "sword" fighting started with the first starwars movie when i was little. I know it is not the same but when I eventually started with kendo I didnt think I would be this cool samurai kinda guy.

I'd say be open for all who want to learn and see what happens.
People come and go and only a few really stay.

[Will]

Because we don't have enough space for beginners and those with bogu, we have to semi integrate the class. Because of this, I'm finding myself not having much time training myself, just being motadachi, anyone else experiencing this? I'm finding this to be very frustrating because I am limited on how many times a week I can practice now and I don't feel like my kendo is improving at it's normal pace. Anyone else experienced this and have recommendations on how to cope with this (except going to another dojo cause I don't have a car while in college)?

[tango]

prior to kill bill and the last samurai, our class size was about 8 (on a GOOD night).. in the past 3 weeks, we've had 6 or 7 newbies show up.. most have stayed with it for a couple weeks now.. we'll see how long that lasts.

i don't know if these movies have had anything to do with it or not.. the newbies don't seem to act like there's a corrolation there..

although one night, this guy showed up.. before we bowed in, i was working on kata with another guy and the newbie asked, "so.. umm.. what's up with THAT? when's there going to be some action?" .... sheesh.... turned out the guy does (or used to) do european fencing. said he be back the next night...
i wasn't surprised that he didn't show up.

btw, i think this was a good post from ren blade:
My advice to just have patience with new beginners who are enthiastic at your dojo because of a couple of movies. They will either stay or leave after you show them the proper way of the art. Don't expect much from beginners as you teach them the basics. Who knows, you may change these people from wanting to swash buckle with a Katana to real Martial Artists in due time. Because since they do not know any better, you can teach them the truth. Remember, patience is an attribute of a Martial Artist.

[DanielH]

Hmm... I was interested in kendo a while BEFORE I saw The Last Samurai but I was only able to join after it so... hehe, they asked me if I saw it and I said yeah so I wonder if they think I joined just because I saw the movie and liked it.

Oh, I never saw Kill Bill (Damn) so *shrugs*

[Hattori Hanzo]

My fascination with swords started at a young age with Ninja movies...ahhh American Ninja....but later it evolved past the desire to be uber.

[kendokamax]

if your doing motodachi you still can learn!

My friend was telling me that Miyazaky was saying that motodachi shouldnt be just a dummy so when you get hit you should always picture yourself doing kaeshi waza.

!!i think thats a good idea!

[Gohanssj]

Yea ive only just joined my dojo, but not cause of movies, i love the philosophy of ancient japan and the way of the samurai, i was way into kung fu when i was younger and when i saw samurai stuff i thawt it was so cool and went way into its history and learning all about their way of life, thats why im interested in kendo and going to try find some kenjutsu classes and iaijutsu.

[Will]

if your doing motodachi you still can learn!

My friend was telling me that Miyazaky was saying that motodachi shouldnt be just a dummy so when you get hit you should always picture yourself doing kaeshi waza.

!!i think thats a good idea!

Kind of hard to picture kaeshi waza when you can't kaeshi (and they suck and their timing's off)

[JSchmidt]

Learning to recieve is just as important as learning to cut!.
Focus on footwork, distance and kamae. Make sure that after each cut, you are positioned and ready to recieve the next cut.
There's nothing worse than a motodachi that isn't taking part in the practice...might as well use a hitting dummy.

[kendokamax]

Kind of hard to picture kaeshi waza when you can't kaeshi (and they suck and their timing's off)

then debana men

[PhilMcLaughlin]

I dont think you should care WHY people come to the dojo - make them welcome & they may well stay

I think the inlfux of beginners is a great thing for kendo period.

for those of you (almost certainly juniors too) moaning because you dont get as much time with the sensei I say - Get a grip ! - YOU were beginners as well - wouldnt you be upset if you thought your sensei thought of you as a burden ??

cheers

Phil..

[mingshi]

Yeah... when you come to think about it. Since there isn't a lot of publicity funding for kendo and related arts, and holding taikai, seminars, enbu, etc event are not directly targeting members of the public... Someone should be writing a big thank you letter to people in Hollywood. :rolleyes:

[Tato]

Well, to be honest my interest started long ago, when the Shogun TV serie passed on the local TV (20 years ago, good god!), then it went more or less into sleep mode until I viewed in the French TV a tournament between the Tokyo university team? and the national French team, I was amazed (and the frenchies where beated, now I know why...)

Then, sometime later, I found the opportunity to join my actual club, and it was my tour to be the newbie for some time

I think it's great to have that kind of free advertising, and I do try to help the new people, even if it's a little amaizing to see that we have grown from 20 to 30 people, to close to 50 on each training, and that around 5 to 10 additional people came to see us. In fact, we start to be short of space... :o

Rei!

[Will]

then debana men

Can't really hit the head of people who don't have a men...
(if i was unclear, i'm being motadachi to nonbogu people)

[aru-ma]

Can't really hit the head of people who don't have a men...
(if i was unclear, i'm being motadachi to nonbogu people)

I think he was refering to imaging yourself doing debana men while acting as a motodachi not actually doing it.

[kendokamax]

I think he was refering to imaging yourself doing debana men while acting as a motodachi not actually doing it.

ya that is what i meant,

You could also skip practice and eat ramen

[SirFingerLickin]

We're a University club, so we regularly get large groups of students coming in and out with the start of every quarter. Whether or not that has anything to do with the movies I cannot say for sure. Very few stay, but some of them do show great potential.

I too was one of them. My knowledge of kendo and martial arts was very very limited aside from what was shown in movies and television. Since then, I've been practicing for 2 years now and feel very good about how my kendo is coming along.

Sure, some students may come in with the hopes of coming out as some sort of superhero, but they can grow past that and learn to appreciate it for what it really is as opposed to what we see. I am proof of that. Granted I'm probably not as good as those who are raised into it, but I do feel I am doing well so far.

[Chopstix]

I still can't link Kill Bill with kendo. No, really.

The Last Samurai reminded me of aiki-ken, especially with the bokken, not kendo, given my prior experience in aikido kata.

The one show which has the most impact on me in regards to kendo is the National Geographics documentary on the hachidan grading which I saw in 2000. Too bad I didn't start then :(

[Randori]

As a long time Aikidoka I can tell you Kendo folks that you've got nothing to complain about here.

Try standing in your Aikido dojo and watching the ungodly influx of pony-tailed young men who signed up after the latest Steven Seagal movie has come out. (We used to call these guys mikka bozu since they never lasted long.)

I've been training in Aikido since before the "Above the Law" days and I can assure you that any indirect effect the "Last Samurai" might have had on Kendo is nothing compared to the direct effect Seagal had on the Aikido world.

Now that he's fat and no longer really doing anything like Aikido in his movies all that has settled down a bit.

Randori

[Paikea]

I dont think you should care WHY people come to the dojo - make them welcome & they may well stay.
Exactly. Maybe one in one hundred from the beginners classes make it to their first shinsa, but the rest are all better people for having been exposed to it.

I liked the sword display in Hanzo's sushi shop attic. I could shop there all day.

[Gregory]

He sold wall hangers, didnt you see the outtakes? Uma waved the sword and started fightinh imaginary ninjas, and she cut off her arm.

[Paikea]

He sold wall hangers, didnt you see the outtakes? Uma waved the sword and started fightinh imaginary ninjas, and she cut off her arm.You must suspend your disbelief or the joy of theater is ruined...

[satsumaruma]

God,
these two films were the bane of our lives at our dojo whether it be Kendo or Iaido - I would also mention the film Blade. I can honestly say that the amount of interest in the dojo when they were released was massive, but despite lots of effort on our part we only have one (Iaido) who has stayed with it. And I am talking about 40 -50 people.

Problem was that,
-Tom Cruise does not train with us.
-Nor does Wesley Snipes or Uma Thurman.
- we had a habit of looking dismayed when people turned up in black trenchcoats.
- we got equally dismayed when they said they wanted "to learn to kill with a katana".
- we tried not to laugh when they asked where the springboards were to help them jump when they made a cut whilst leaping through the air (this really was asked).

These films are more trouble than they are worth because unfortunately people only the romantic side of things and not the hours of practice required and the fact that, as we all know, we have to persevere when things are not going right for us, we have to push through this to improve. We live in a quick-gratification society where people expect rewards immediately if not sooner. Traditional Martial Arts will not give them this - so they call themselves O Sensei and dress in red wielding a hunting knife.

Give me strength!

Lee

[nodachi]

I wonder what people think when they enter a dojo and hear someone say, <while demonstrating some suburi> "you will be doing basically only this for at least 6 months... if this is not what you were expecting or you won't be able to be dedicated and tough through it, maybe this isn't for you."

[satsumaruma]

Nodachi, that is spot on,

I think those that visited us wanted to slay Orcs or something within two weeks of practice.