A dog in the dojo???

[Lee-chan-92]

Okay, so at my Aikido dojo, this middle aged dude brings his husky mix with him to the dojo. The dog walks in and out of all the rooms, (which frustrates me, because the women's dressing room has a curtain as a door, and when the dog walks in and out, she opens up the curtain really wide, and men have accidentally looked inside because the movement catches their eye)
Is this acceptable, or are people being polite? The sensei doesn't seem to mind, but I do. And a few people break out in hives because of their allergies to this dog, but dont say anything because they want to be polite.
Should someone tell this man to leave the dog at home? Or is it just me?
They make us take off our shoes when we enter the dojo, but with the dog with its dirty feet is just like someone walking around with their shoes on.
I just really dislike the idea of a dog wandering around a dojo....

[tango]

of course, you tell the dog's owner there's a problem.
if that doesn't solve it, then you have to go to the sensei.

if health of students is affected, sensei needs to know.
if privacy of students is affected, sensei needs to know.

it's just that simple, and I don't understand why the question has to be asked.

...now... if the guy is BLIND and needs his seeing-eye dog, well, i guess that's a different ball of wax

[Neil Gendzwill]

Dogs have no business indoors in public spaces, unless they're guide dogs.

[atgm]

If he's blind, he needs a new seeing eye dog and training on how not to ruin it.

[turboyoshi]

...now... if the guy is BLIND and needs his seeing-eye dog, well, i guess that's a different ball of wax

In the US, service dogs are allowed pretty much everywhere and if someone tells you the dog is a service dog, it is illegal to ask what kind of service dog he is. For example, it could be a medical alert dog (epilepsy, diabetes etc) so there might be some privacy concern there. However, even service dogs have to be properly behaved, or the business is allowed to refuse service to the customer or insist the dog be removed from the premises. Now, I am an animal lover and appreciate if a business allows me to bring my dog with me, but this man's dog is not well behaved and I would have no trouble asking him to leave or even calling animal control. Bad behavior, from an animal or person, really irritates me. Behavior like this makes me wish people were forced to pass a test and get a license before being allowed to own a pet.

[b8amack]

Out of curiousity, how does the dog react when its owner is sparring/ getting hip tossed?

[Charles Lockhar]

That's messed up. No way does a dog wandering around inside seem appropriate. Even if it turns out to be a service dog, that doesn't mean it needs free access to wander where it will. There's a difference between being polite and not wanting to make waves by pointing out an obvious issue.

-Charles

[stealth_monkey]

There's a difference between being polite and not wanting to make waves by pointing out an obvious issue.

While I agree that a dog has no place in a place of business, I question the logic of putting this in a public forum. Surely the politest way would be to have a word with the man and if that doesn't work your sensei, rather than posting on a forum where the issue is opened to public discussion

[turboyoshi]

While I agree that a dog has no place in a place of business, I question the logic of putting this in a public forum.

She's not airing some intimate matter that should be kept private. No one is materially hurt by this discussion and the OP may learn something useful, at least gain the confidence to deal with this rudeness being inflicted on her.

[Jonathan]

If the dog's distracting to you, tell the dude.
If he won't do anything about it, talk to the sensei.
If the sensei won't do anything about it, cope or find a new space to train.

best of luck.

[Lee-chan-92]

Out of curiousity, how does the dog react when its owner is sparring/ getting hip tossed?

it really doesnt care, it just keeps walking around aimlessly haha

[Lee-chan-92]

You know the saying, ''the nail that sticks out will be hammered down''? I'm afraid that will happen, because some people like the dog, and I dont want to be branded as the jerk who said something. My mum suggested writing an anonymous letter, but even so, I really hate confrontation... Eeeehhhhhh the whole situation just makes me crawl out of my skin in discomfort...>.<
Like....am I being unreasonable, or do I actually have a point here? Or is it not even a big deal?

[stealth_monkey]

She's not airing some intimate matter that should be kept private. No one is materially hurt by this discussion and the OP may learn something useful, at least gain the confidence to deal with this rudeness being inflicted on her.

I'd question the being materially hurt part of that. If someone were to mention the name of Lee's school, which is publically viewable on her profile, I'd be curious to see how high google would bump this thread in searches for that school's name. In the modern age, a single poor review is perfectly capable of costing a business, especially when an outsider not familiar with Lee's school is informed of dressing rooms not being secure, allergic reactions by members and a culture preventing people from talking about it from fear of politeness.

Not saying this is what would occur, or even if this assumption is accurate, but I've learnt myself the dangers of having something taken the wrong way in reference to another person (even if I was the one taking things the wrong way)

[annoraderenart@]

"The dog walks in and out of all the rooms, (which frustrates me, because the women's dressing room has a curtain as a door, and when the dog walks in and out, she opens up the curtain really wide, and men have accidentally looked inside because the movement catches their eye)"

This is a problem. Please speak to the dog's owner and let him know that you are not comfortable with his dog leaving you exposed. You are entitled to the modicum of privacy afforded by the ladies changing area. If you are not confident enough, please have your mother or father discuss this with either the dog's owner or the sensei. This is not a situation you should tolerate. I would not accept the situation. I highly advise that you not accept it either.

[atgm]

My aunt and uncle train service dogs of various kinds with a lot of success; part of the training on the dog's part is learning to not be a pet and to instead be a tool. A part of that is always staying by its master (unless trained to go somewhere in the event of an emergency) and not just randomly wandering around. So I doubt it's a service dog... and like I said before, if it IS a service dog, then the dog needs to be retrained (if possible) and the man needs training in how to treat the dog properly so that its service training doesn't go to waste.

[Gin]

DOG in a DOJO!!!

Aren't we all dogs in a DOJO!!!

Funny and amusing. Thank you for making laugh.

I think a DOG in a DOJO is perfect metaphor of some sorts. But
It only should apply to KOANs.

LOL....... funny. I laugh and cant stop laughing.

Thank you.

ps. I think you should rephrase the question to this:

What do you do when someone violates your personal space with a seemingly innocent manner. At first glance it being
insignificant, but later upon reflection it is a serious cause of concern. How do you react when the mediating
authority figure is callus to your concern. And you are constraint to being polite and non-offensive as the environment dictates.



:) just participating in this discussion. hope no is offended..........

I go back to laughing now!!!! lol DOG in a DOJO!!!! funny funny...........

[GothMelancolia]

You could ammmmmmmm
….bring a cat :D:evil:


Sorry
Ok seriously now…talk to the guy there is no reason not to.

[krys]

I really hate confrontation... Eeeehhhhhh the whole situation just makes me crawl out of my skin in discomfort... If you do not wish to bother your sensei there is another way. You should know - more or less - other people in your dojo and surely there is at least one person who does not hate confrontations. Maybe even enjoys them.
Even if she/he doesn't mind the dog, may mind it disturbs others. Ask for help dealing with the guy.


Or is it not even a big deal?
Allergy? Opening women's dressing room? It's as big as you want to make it.

[Kokoro777]

I'd suggest that bringing a dog into a dojo is bad etiquette on a couple of levels. Firstly the owner is erroneously assuming that everyone is happy to have a dog in close proximity to them and that is not the case-he should ask if its alright to bring his dog with him and leave it untethered. Its analogous to parents allowing their kids to run riot in restaurants because they feel that everyone else thinks their spawn is cute and so its acceptable to allow this. Its not.

Secondly, the dojo has a 'sacred' area and with Shinto's concept of uncleanliness/misogi I wonder if a dog roaming around in this area could be classed as desecration.

[Jonathan]

You know the saying, ''the nail that sticks out will be hammered down''? I'm afraid that will happen, because some people like the dog, and I dont want to be branded as the jerk who said something. My mum suggested writing an anonymous letter, but even so, I really hate confrontation... Eeeehhhhhh the whole situation just makes me crawl out of my skin in discomfort...>.<
Like....am I being unreasonable, or do I actually have a point here? Or is it not even a big deal?

No, you raise a perfectly valid point in my opinion.

Unfortunately, you're not happy with the dog. So basically you have a couple options:

1. Deal with it.
2. Address the issue directly
3. Address the issue passive aggressively
4. Find a dog-free dojo.

If for whatever reason I was doing something I shouldn't be, I know I'd appreciate someone telling me it wasn't cool before writing notes to the sensei behind my back. Give the dude a chance if you haven't already, in a clear manner.* "Hey I like you and your dog and everything, but he's kind of distracting and this isn't really the best place for him. Is there someone you can leave him with for like 2 hours?" Maybe he'd like to but can't afford it, and you guys can all toss in a buck or two to help a dojo mate out. Or whatever, I don't know.

Being passive aggressive, writing notes, dropping subtle little hints, seems like a recipe for disaster. Besides, isn't that middle part of the Kendo cheer something like "To associate with others with sincerity"? If you can't do that in your own dojo, where are you going to be able to?


*Don't do this in front of everyone, it is super confrontational and unless it is a literal safety issue like juggling knives or something is kind of in poor taste to call somebody out before giving them a chance one on one.

[Jonathan]

Re-read and saw aikido dojo, not kendo dojo. I think the point still stands. Apologies.

[Charles Lockhar]

What do you do when someone violates your personal space with a seemingly innocent manner. At first glance it being
insignificant, but later upon reflection it is a serious cause of concern. How do you react when the mediating
authority figure is callus to your concern. And you are constraint to being polite and non-offensive as the environment dictates.

Unless I misread (quite possible), her teacher (aka "the mediating authority figure") isn't being callous of her concern, because she's never voiced it. Hard to be insensitive to someones issues if you don't know they've got 'em.

The dog thing is a big indicator that the teacher runs a less strict dojo, at least in some ways (not my place to call it, but the dog thing seems like a valid indicator). Nothing wrong with giving him (the teacher) the benefit of the doubt though: it could be that he decided to allow the dog as long as no one brings it up as an issue.

I would be surprised if other people in your dojo don't have a problem with it, but don't feel comfortable bringing it up. Dogs track in so much... interesting... stuff. And a dojo being a "barefoot place..." Ewww.

I don't think it's reasonable to address the dog's owner directly. It's not your establishment, you're not his teacher. But I'd definitely bring it up with the teacher.

-Charles

[FastKendo]

A dog, as well as other animal should be treated the same based on their behaviour. If it's disturbing you and others, you should tell the owner, if he ignoring you then you should tell the sensei. Afterall, I don't think it's impolite to politely ask him not to let his dog go to certain places in the dojo but you have clearly explain the reason behind your request. It'll be better if you're not alone when telling him this, ask one of your friend, tell him with smiling, then he should understand. If not, you can discuss it with your sensei.

[Jonathan]

By talking to the dogs owner first, you're giving him a chance to save face. At that point, he can decide to do something on his own terms, without being _told what to do_ by someone else. Chances are good this is the best way to resolve a conflict amicably, if the dude is halfway reasonable. The important thing is to just be respectful when you talk to him. Then if it goes nowhere, when you talk to sensei you can be all "Well, you know, I really hoped I wouldn't have to bother you with something like this, but do you think you could say something to so-and-so about the dog?"

If you don't think you can ask in a respectful manner, then maybe it is better to go to a sempai or the sensei or whatever your school calls the next person over you.


By the way, was the dog regularly attending classes before you were? Maybe he is your sempai...? XD

[Gin]

By the way, was the dog regularly attending classes before you were? Maybe he is your sempai...? XD[/QUOTE]

LOL funny!!!! SEMPIA!!!...............haha

[rfoxmich]

To be clear, are we talking 2-legged or 4 legged dog?

[Big One]

Taser him bro!

[Raindrop]

Maybe suggest the dog to stay in a kennel?

(http://www.puppy-training-solutions.com/image-files/designer-color-wire-dog-homes.jpg)

although it's hard to train them if they are no longer puppies.

I assume the dog owner cannot leave him alone at home and that's why he brings him? In a kennel the dog can still come but won't walk around and the hair won't travel either.

btw I think the people with dog allergies should speak up o__O Seeing how it is more people bothered by it than just you, first talk to the other people and then talk to the owner and ask if he could maybe keep the dog confined.

[LarsCW]

Going from the assumption that taking your pet to the dojo is correct ettiquette where you practise.

If you take your pet with you the this pet should listen and stay.

A pet has no place on the dojo floor itself. I think it would be gross to have an animal who also walk outside on the dojo floor leaving hairs all over the place. This also could leave hairs on your gi.

So the only choices you really have alre already mentioned.

Take it up with the owner in the most comfortable way. You could ask the owner if you could have a chat so the owner wouldn't lose face to other dojo members. If this won't work you should goto the sensei as i personally think it would be rather rude and selfish for the dog owner to do nothing with the concern you brought to his attention.

If you do not want to confront the dog owner then the other option would be to look for a pet free dojo.

Keep one thing in mind though. We do matrial arts to confront ourselves with new challenges to learn to deal with them in the best possible ways for ourselves.