Financial Contribution to the Jedi Council

[mingshi]

(The title is a joke... but I just like the sense of irony to call ourselves Jedi. BTW I'm not a Star Wars Fan)

How much do you pay to your Kendo Association?

I would like to know how much you spent on your local KA. As a poor student I've to make sure I'm paying what I should. So I would appreciate if you all add the same information down the list, for future reference.

In a typical Hong Kong dojo:
(Dojo size: 20m*10.5m air-conditioned gym room. Center of city w/ great transportation link. Nice changing room in sport stadium's standard. Practice time= 1 1/2 hour, twice every week.)

Year Fee (for the KA)= USD$28
Monthly Fee (club)=$32
Grading Fee: Shodan=$77, Nidan=$103, Sandan=$141, Yondan=$244
Menjo/Certificate Fee=$13

I'm not very happy with the grading fees...

[JSchmidt]

Is that Hongkong dollars or US?

[stk]

Yearly fee (club) = USD$ / €92
Yearly fee (national athletics assoc.(insurance)) = USD$ / €13
Yearly fee (bogu rental) = USD$ / €52

The norwegian kendo assoc. cannot issue dan grades, but the kyu grades are about USD$ / €20 each.

[alexpollijr]

Yearly fee (federation) : U$ 40
Grading Fee & Menjo fee: U$ 20 - 70
Yearly fee (club): U$110

Very expensive I'd say. Less polite people would call it a ripoff, given the quality of the places where shinsa and taikai take place.

[James]

One thing I don't get is why Menjo fees increase with Dan grades.
I mean it's not like they start using parchment made from the skins of virgins (which I understand is expensive) the higher up you get.
Of course it may be that you have to have more higher grade judges, but they don't get paid do they? Well if they do I'd like to know so that I can slip them a few bucks before the grading :D

Seriously, is there any justification for this?

[Justy]

$5/month (Canadian funds) to the dojo.
A little under $40/yr for Canadian Kendo Federation membership
I'm sorry, I don't know what the grading fees are, because I haven't graded yet.

[Vagabond]

Alex

R$ or in USD$?

Kendo was chepear in the old days.


Marcelo

[kendokamax]

Kendo is too costy!!!!

In canadian money.....:

I pay for two semester kendo class 110$ x 2= 220 $.
Then 4 other months that are not included in these semesters: 38$ x 4 = 152 $. That makes 372 $ I have to pay for the gym we are using (sports complex of mcgill university)..

20$ per semester for renting bogu = 20 $ x 2= 40$

Then 15$ per year to the ckf(canadian kendo federation.
Grading for ikkyu last year was 40$.

so that makes a big total of.......427 $ per year (without grading)

then comes the expensive stuff...!
200 $ (renting car, hotel, eat, tournament fees) per tournament that are held in Ontario (around 3 per year)

200$ x 3 = 600$ !

1 tournament in our area 25$,

That makes around.....1052 $

Extras!

3 shinai per year....40x 3= 120 $

This year I went to Vancouver for canadian championship so...1000$ more :D

I will go to halifax tournament so.....400-500 $ more

So for this year....I will have spend...about 2672 $ for kendo....


woah....I played like 250 hours of kendo this year.....so kendo cost me like 10$ per hour!!!!

crazyyyyy stuff

I will think about that 10 $ per hour next practice....

however all these trips, experiences and kendo is worth a lot more than all this money.

[cklin]

Kendo should be free.

I think the reason that higher dan menjo are costlier is justified by the federations b/c they say that fewer people test for those ranks. Not really a good justification in my book.

[deanoclark]

I don't really see what all the fuss is about.....why shouldn't you pay for Kendo? Someone has to pay for the use of the dojo/area where you train. Aditionally, our litigous society (here in oz and elsewhere) means that we must all be insured.

My Sensei runs his own nursery which he closes to teach us Kendo. If he had to then cover the hire of the hall and the repair/replacement of all our club bogu, on top the lost income when his shop is closed, I could not live with myself.

I choose to study Kendo. The equipment costs money. Simple.

I am more than happy to pay the basic costs of Kendo.

On a side note, I did leave a dodgy Kendo teacher (I cannot call him 'Sensei') who used Kendo as his sole source of income. This is where the border lies, I feel.

[cklin]

deanoclark -- sorry, I was being unclear: I meant that kendo federations shouldn't charge the crazy money they call "dues".

I have yet to see anything good come out of putting money into the US federation coffers. It just contributes to the ugly kendo politics that alex was talking about in another thread.

Yeah, sure, if you like kendo, you'll be willing to lay out the base costs... no argument there!

[Will]

AUSKF dues go to probably training the US Team and such events.

Federation dues probably go to training your federation team for the US championship.

Even though getting your shodan+ is expensive, if you divide by how many years you must wait before you test for the next rank, it's probably the same amount of money...so just start saving up earlier...besides, saving 200 bucks over 4 years doesn't seem too hard...50 bucks a year....about a buck a week.... and about 13
cents a day....

Kendokamax, you're saying kendo is too costly...but man, if it's hurting your pocket books, don't hit the tournaments too often, ya know what i'm saying...It seems like tournaments are causing the most damage to your wallet. But if you like tournaments and it's hard to resist, go ahead and hit them, but then, don't complain about the costs...(sorry if that sounded a bit rude, couldn't put it a nicer way, didn't mean to sound rude too.)

[Justy]

Kendokamax, on behalf of the city of Vancouver, we thank you for contributing to our crappy economy. ^_^

[durrell4]

Justy, we in the PNKF look forward to spending our $ at Steveston every year.

[olaf]

Mingshi: just so you know, the fees cited from the Hong Kong dojo are a good deal. That's slightly more than what I was charged back when I was in the territory (I was given some sort of "guest" fee), but is still significantly lower than what most dojos overseas charge. Friends of mine who have practiced in dojos overseas, particularly in the U.S., tell me that they used to pay probably 2x to 3x the numbers you gave.

[kendokamax]

ah Will I didn't mean to complain about it.

I was just saying it's a costy hobby. I had the chance to visit some interesting places because of kendo. And money is made for spending!

I want to attend to the most tournament possible! Because I think it's one of the best way to improve. All the great kendoka you see there just makes you realize so much things about kendo.

I'm actually saving a lot of money right now......for the longest kendo trip in my life.

[inner_cent]

Originally posted by kendokamax

I'm actually saving a lot of money right now......for the longest kendo trip in my life.

MMmmmmmmmm.... Kendokamax .........
Think you can spare some of your saving for Fellow Kendoka ?? ;P
We are bunch of poor swordsmen... who cnanot affrd too much of these fee :P haahaa

[Justy]

And we in greater Vancouver love the PNKF's business too! :)

We're about to return the favour in small part... a few of us from Sunrise Dojo Coquitlam are looking forward to visiting Renton WA for the AUSKF iaido taikai/shinsa on September 20-22.

Might sound funny coming from a guy who lives in BC and gets to drive roads like the Coquihalla, Fraser Canyon and Hope-Princeton highways, but that stretch of the I-5 from Bellingham to Everett is a pretty beautiful drive. And the 70mph speed limit makes my little '75 Civic speed scream in 4th gear. :)


Originally posted by kendokamax

I'm actually saving a lot of money right now......for the longest kendo trip in my life.

Oh? Do tell! Could this be an extended trip to Japan?

[kendokamax]

Oh? Do tell! Could this be an extended trip to Japan?

haha we will see in 8 months.. where I'm going to be on earth.

[mingshi]

Originally posted by olaf
Friends of mine who have practiced in dojos overseas, particularly in the U.S., tell me that they used to pay probably 2x to 3x the numbers you gave.

No~~~!! I cannot imagine anyone paying more than that?
If there're other places on earth that charge a lot less... that'll be considered a rip-off!

At the moment I'm in UK. There're their fees:

KA annual =USD$46 (student 1/2 price!!)
Club practice (twice a week) annual =$300
or around $6 each class

Grading: (Menjo =$15)
Shodan=$23
Nidan=$31
Sandan=$38
Yondan=$46

Taikai entry fee=$7, spectators=free :)
I'm desperately trying to take as many grading as possible in this country!! .....I won't be able to afford a second chance if I fail even one grading in HK!

***
The Kendo association can make a big profit if they:
1)pass everyone on lower ranks
2)fail everyone on higher ranks
because it costs more for higher ranks!! :D
(Wait..... This is not very original.... they're already doing that!!)

[GMason]

Hi Mingshi,

My Girlfriend took her Nidan in HK about a year ago and she told me it was about $110 I couldn't believe it. It seems so much money to pay out just for a bit of paper. I understand that you have to pat the expenses of the panel and grading officer etc.... but $110 is a hell of alot of money.

You mentioned about taking grading's in Britain. I know it is not that much but what annoy's me is registration fee you have to pay after you pass. OK you pass your grading and have to £20 to register your grade. But then when you come to take your next grading you have to send in a copy of your Menjo..... It just winds me up that you have to pay to regster you grade and then next tme you grade you have to prove you are that grade what is the point in registering the grade in the first place ........ sorry to moan but it winds me up abit.

I don't know if you know my girlfirend or not she is from Macau, I know she practice's at quite a couple of the HK dojo's when she is home.

[mingshi]

The question is: Are they supposed to make a profit out of Kendo?

Okay, back to the old days some 100+ years ago. Sensei taught martial arts for a living! But in the modern world you had better daytime work to do. Many martial arts organizations state that they're "non profit-making; just pay for venue-booking/equipment rental etc.", but many others, like some junior karate class.....hoho, you just don't know how much they can earn! I only know that in UK there's this "constitution" saying no one can make money for themselves out of Kendo, but I don't know if this exist in HK......

Should Kendo be free? Worth thinking.

[kendo_chick]

Yeay kendokamax for coming to our Tournament!!!

On another note, I spend way WAY too much on Kendo.

Since last August:

Semester of Kendo fees - $100 x 3 semesters a year = $300
CKF fees - @ $40 a year
Shinai = $50 x approx 2/year = $100
New Bogu = $900
New gi = $60


Tournaments

Ontario Sr. Open - approx. $800
U of T Tournament - approx $800
Cleveland Tournament - approx $1000

Gradings

Quebec special grading - (including trip) - $500


So for me... that's about $4500. OUCH!!!

[richard haly]

"I only know that in UK there's this "constitution" saying no one can make money for themselves out of Kendo, but I don't know if this exist in HK......"

This is interesting. Does anyone know if such an article exists in the US in any of its federations? Is kendo in the US a "not-for-profit" endeavour?

Thanks,

Richard

[KhawMengLee]

The WAKR(western australian kendo renmai) is the same. Its a non profit society.

Annual member fees AUD$50

My club fees(murdoch): $5 per 2 hour lesson

Budokan fees: $5 per 2 hour lesson

Grading is $25 dollars for kyu level. You get a refund if you fail.

MENg

[rockum]

In Korea, Kendo is one of the most expensive..

In this country,
Monthly fee (dojo) = about USD$ / 60-80
Grading Fee: Shodan=about $42, Nidan=$50, Sandan=$66, Yondan=$83
Kyu grade =16$

[Confound]

I am amazed by the costs. Is it absolutely necessary to join your country's kendou federation? They seem very expensive, what do they do for you in the long run? I'm not asking this to become flamebait, i'm asking because i don't belong to one, and it's a serious concern when i go back to my home country.

c

[Kenshi]

Confound,

The answers to your questions = it depends on the association ......

All I can say is if you grade *ensure* you have the menjo b4 you return back to whence-you-came [or you at least know where to get it from].

Cheers,

[JSchmidt]

Confound, in most European countries, the association provides insurance, should you get injured (or injure someone). thus many dojo leaders require you to be a member of the association.

Jakob

[kendokamax]

I don't know but I think in canada many fonds go to Team Canada. And I don't mind paying alittle money for suporting my national team.

I guess with this money they also pay for some of the sensei's travel .

stuff like that

[inner_cent]

Originally posted by Confound
I am amazed by the costs. Is it absolutely necessary to join your country's kendou federation? They seem very expensive, what do they do for you in the long run? I'm not asking this to become flamebait, i'm asking because i don't belong to one, and it's a serious concern when i go back to my home country.

c


Confound, for Dojo outside Japan, alot of them are categorised into two type :

1. Affiliated club, non profit base, but they need lots of fee to conver some of the administration fee, competition fee, Dojo rental, and wrost of all Insurence (this fee gets higher and higher).
2. Non Affiliated club, alot of them are profit base, and purpose ?? no idea .......

[cklin]

Confound: in re joining a federation -- it's generally necessary to join if you're to test for dan in your country.

[Confound]

on the subject of menjo, grading and other things... this may be off topic, but it is related, just wait.

I have my papers for ikkyu, and will have them for sho-dan in a while (if all goes well), but i'm not very confident that they will be accepted in my home country. how will anyone know what they are? what happens if I get back to canada, and someone says 'how the heck can we know what these are!? Welcome back to having no-rank!' and they bust me all the way back to nothing?

it's something iu've wondered quite a bit. how do different associations review the gradings of others?

c

[kendo_chick]

Confound - As far as I've had experience with it, there are no problems. Our instructor is from Korea and he is recognized by the CKF (Canadian Kendo Fed) for his rank. Likewise, My boyfriend and I are going to Japan next year, and they will also accept our ranking that we recieved here in Canada.

[Ares2907]

Ditto. I got my sandan in Japan, no probs with recognition back in oz. I'd find it difficult to believe that there wouldn't be access to someone who could translate it if it's the language that's a problem.
My understanding is that as long as the grade was received from an association affiliated with the IKF, it should be recognised anywhere, no matter what language its written in. Don't stress.
:eek:

[alexpollijr]

The only thing worth mentioning is that some countries don't have grades below ikkyu, like Japan and Brazil, for instance.

Otherwise a grade is grade no matter where you got it.

[Confound]

I don't know about Brazil, but in Japan there are grades below Ikkyu, but you are tested 'in house'. Your sensei assesses your ability, and gradually moves you up to nikkyu. If you have not been so evaluated by your sensei, and you fail the ikkyu test, you receive a nikkyu certifate instead. 3 of the little girls in my dojo failed (yes, one of them was the one who cries all the time).

c

[Confound]

I don't know about Brazil, but in Japan there are grades below Ikkyu, but you are tested 'in house'. Your sensei assesses your ability, and gradually moves you up to nikkyu. If you have not been so evaluated by your sensei, and you fail the ikkyu test, you receive a nikkyu certifate instead. 3 of the little girls in my dojo failed (yes, one of them was the one who cries all the time). that's how i know

c

[alexpollijr]

I believe that these 'grades' are not recognized by the ZNKR. As you said, it's an informal 'in house' thing. Sme other dojo might not have it. In Japan , I believe, you only have to join the federation when you test for ikkyu.

I can't imagine someone failing ikkyu. Unless you hold the shinai upside down , that is.

[kendokamax]

bah you can fail at any grade.

doesn't mean that much
important thing is to continue on!

look at miyazaki he failed shodan

I still can't believe that!