Pre-Oku Certificate

[Will Schutt]

From a thread in the naginata forum in which Jodo was mentioned:


Yes. He taught 5 annual Gasshuku in the US between 1996 and 2000, all of which I attended. A small group of us have maintained contact with him since then. Our group leader goes over several times a year to Japan to train. I plan to travel to Japan to train next year if I am recommended for Oku-iri. When he was here [USA] last in 2000, I was presented a pre-Oku certificate for Shoden (Omote) from Kaminoda-s.

I've never heard of a pre-Oku certificate for Shoden (Omote). Could you elaborate on this? Do you still receive dan gradings?

-Will

[R A Sosnowski]

From a thread in the naginata forum in which Jodo was mentioned:

Originally Posted by R A Sosnowski

Yes. He taught 5 annual Gasshuku in the US between 1996 and 2000, all of which I attended. A small group of us have maintained contact with him since then. Our group leader goes over several times a year to Japan to train. I plan to travel to Japan to train next year if I am recommended for Oku-iri. When he was here [USA] last in 2000, I was presented a pre-Oku certificate for Shoden (Omote) from Kaminoda-s.

I've never heard of a pre-Oku certificate for Shoden (Omote). Could you elaborate on this? Do you still receive dan gradings?

-Will

Kaminoda-s. and the Nihon Jodokai follow the Menkyo (scroll) system of indicating proficiency within Shindo Muso Ryu. Dan grades are used by the Jodo section of ZNKR for Seitei Jo - this is a separate system, and one that is not currently in favor with the NJ as I understand it.

The scrolls consist of Oku-iri, Shomokuroku, Gomokuroku and Menkyo [there may be one for Menkyo Kaiden but that need not concern us here].

Because of the amount of time it takes to get Oku-iri, Kaminoda-s. decided to issue a series of pre-Oku certificates (five as I recall); these may just be for Jodo-ka outside of Japan.

So you have not heard of them because they are a new development particular to the NJ.

HTH.

[Will Schutt]

I recall reading somewhere about certificates of participation for attending gasshuku. Is that what these are? Does each certificate correspond to a specific kata set (you mentioned Shoden/Omote)?

It's interesting how the different groups do things differently. The line in which I study (under Phil Relnick) uses only the menkyo system.

thanks - Will

[R A Sosnowski]

I recall reading somewhere about certificates of participation for attending gasshuku. Is that what these are? No.

Does each certificate correspond to a specific kata set (you mentioned Shoden/Omote)? Essentially yes.

It's interesting how the different groups do things differently. The line in which I study (under Phil Relnick) uses only the menkyo system.

thanks - Will

As I recall, Relnick-s. follows the lineage of Nishioka Tsuneo - it's a different group.

[Jerry O'Brien]

QUOTE:

Yes. He taught 5 annual Gasshuku in the US between 1996 and 2000, all of which I attended. A small group of us have maintained contact with him since then. Our group leader goes over several times a year to Japan to train. I plan to travel to Japan to train next year if I am recommended for Oku-iri. When he was here [USA] last in 2000, I was presented a pre-Oku certificate for Shoden (Omote) from Kaminoda-s.



Raymond Sosnowski



OK Ray. I feel the need to respond in forum to several of the assertions you've made here.



First, there is no such thing as a "Pre-Oku Certificate". You and others (myself included) were given certificates by Kaminoda Sensei that were meant solely to acknowledge that we were practicing certain skill sets. Nothing more should be read into that. All Certificates tendered by Kaminoda Sensei were either at Rick Polland's suggestion as the Senior instructor at the Rembukan dojo or under his co-signature.



Second, let me further clarify that Kaminoda Sensei visited the USA on those occasions through the invitation of the Rembukan and Rick Polland.It was Rick who invited you to the various seminars and the Rembukan Dojo. For most of these events and during most of your affiliation with the Rembukan you were in fact a “satellite student", attending class for a couple of weekends a year. This gave you little actual time on the mat and certainly not enough time to grasp an in-depth understanding of JO. Certainly not enough time that you would consider a shoden certificate of instruction even remotely comparable to Oku-iri or as you put it “ Pre-Oku”.



Third, it was because of your assertions on E-Budo claiming to be an "assistant instructor " at the Rembukan dojo that you got into some trouble. As I understand it, after this event you decided to leave the Rembukan and go your own way. So might I ask, who it is that will be recommending you for Oku-iri??



Finally, as of this writing, you are not Kaminoda Sensei's direct MONJIN and you have no affiliation with the Rembukan Dojo.



Regards,

Jerry O'Brien