Looking for Historical Info on pre-Atarashii Naginata

[R A Sosnowski]

A prior Naginata thread, Traditionnal School (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2335) , got me thinking about this.

Ellis Amdur in this book "Old School: Essays on Japanese Martial Traditions" mentions a set of Mombusho Naginata forms, taught in Japanese schools during the latter part of WWII (1945-1945), that were the precursors to Shikake-oogi of Atarashii Naginata.

Does anyone how many Mombusho Seitei Gata there were? Furthermore, does anyone know what they looked like? Are there any existing documents?

My suspicion is that there was a small number of Kata - somewhere between five and eight.

Amdur mentions that Mombusho Seitei Gata "was made for the expressed purpose of training school children" that was "an efficient, simplified method of teaching youth en masse (p. 209)."

Further, he mentions that "[i]t was decided [by the founders of the AJNF in 1953] to adopt the Mombusho Kata as the standard form of the federation, with only a few minor[my emphasis] changes (p. 211)." This seems to indicate that there were eight forms very similar to Shikake-oogi. If so, then what was changed?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

[Nagi David]

I'm also getting more and more interested in traditionnal ryu, and I've seen some similarity between Atarashii Naginata Kamae and Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto ryu kamae, as wel as Jikishin Kage ryu. On this web site : http://www.aikidojo.nl they have a series of kamae done by Budo kyohan by yoshio sugino sensei in 1939, it's quite interesting. You have there some Jodan and Gedan kamae which are similars but also another number of kamaes who look a bit like Hasso and Waki.

[Jakob Ryngen]

Thanks for the thread, Raymond! I am as interested as you. I think you have mentioned some waza changes from Monbusho/Mombusho Naginata such as tsuki to the throat instead of the do in SOW no. 6 and 7. I know one person in Sweden who has trained Mombusho Naginata but unfortunately she is not very easy to get in contact with. Perhaps someone in Japan could tell us more?
I'm also getting more and more interested in traditionnal ryu, and I've seen some similarity between Atarashii Naginata Kamae and Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto ryu kamae, as wel as Jikishin Kage ryu.
Well, I really look forward to the first Tendo Ryu seminar in Europe. If all goes well I will bring my TSKSR naginatajutsu book :) I would say that Tendo Ryu has some similarities with AN but TSKSR is far out!