Gradings

[plewis66]

In particular in Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryo and Eikoku Roshukai, what is the grading system?

I believe in Iaido, there is no significane to the colour of the obi, and a persons grade is not displayed on the uniform?

Also, how many grades are there, and of what types? And how many forms does one need to know for each grade? What is the avergae length of tmie between each grade?

Is there a website I can find this on?

Again, I know the obvious answer is to ask Sensei, but unfortunately I have to travel over an hour to get home from class, so I don't get the opportunity to hang around much after class. And there are always many people seeking Sensei's time.

Thanks.

[R A Sosnowski]

In particular in Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryo and Eikoku Roshukai, what is the grading system?

Kyu-Dan. I believe that they are affiliated with the ZNIR.



I believe in Iaido, there is no significane to the colour of the obi, and a persons grade is not displayed on the uniform?

Correct.



Also, how many grades are there, and of what types? And how many forms does one need to know for each grade? What is the avergae length of tmie between each grade?

Is there a website I can find this on?

Start here: Eikoku Roshukai (http://www.eikoku-roshukai.com/). There is a button on the LHS labled "Grading Criteria."



Again, I know the obvious answer is to ask Sensei, but unfortunately I have to travel over an hour to get home from class, so I don't get the opportunity to hang around much after class. And there are always many people seeking Sensei's time.

Thanks.

Why not try to arrange in advance talk to Sensei? Let him know about your time constraints. By rights, Sensei should be providing the answers or sources for the answers to you. Use alternative means of communications, if possible, rather than F2F. Are phone calls, letters or even e-mail possibilities? Also, ask your Sempai (seniors).

HTH.

[Will Schutt]

Kyu-Dan. I believe that they are affiliated with the ZNIR.

I don't believe the Eikoku Roshukai is affiliated with the ZNIR. I think Iwata Sensei was with the ZNKR (he may not be any longer). My impression when reading the website is that the Eikoku Roshukai gradings are an in-house thing or under Iwata Sensei's authorization.

At least, the grading criteria they list does not conform to that of the MJER associated with the ZNIR (as I understand them).

-Will

[R A Sosnowski]

I don't believe the Eikoku Roshukai is affiliated with the ZNIR. I think Iwata Sensei was with the ZNKR (he may not be any longer). My impression when reading the website is that the Eikoku Roshukai gradings are an in-house thing or under Iwata Sensei's authorization.

At least, the grading criteria they list does not conform to that of the MJER associated with the ZNIR (as I understand them).

-Will

I may be mis-remembering the contents of their web-site, or confusing them with someone else's. :(

My experience in the US and Canada is that those groups claiming a MJER lineage are members of the ZNIR. People in the ZNKR, although they practice the MJER Kata, generally do not claim a MJER lineage per se.

YMMV.

[Richie224]

Iwata sensei is a Hachi-dan Hanshi of the ZNKR and a holder of Menkyo Kaiden in MJER. You can read an interview with him here at Hyaku's website. http://www.hyoho.com/

The Eikoku Roshukai are not affliated with the ZNKR or ZNIR, however, they are a member of the Roshukai group of dojo in Japan headed by Iwata sensei. As stated on the website the gradings are done in Koryu only.

[plewis66]

Thanks for the help.

The link to the interview with Iwata Sensei was very much welcome.

I have read the documet on grading criteria on the Eikoku website, but I do not understand it.

What is Kyu-Dan?

I'm sure my Sensei would explain all of these things to me, but I would not impose on him by phone calls, email etc.

I am very much a beginner. I'm sure as I progress, I will learn all this things. But though I am patient for techinque and ability, I am very impatient for knowledge.

[chidokan]

don't worry about asking your teacher questions, that is what he is there for. If he cant answer he knows someone who can. One thing we have learnt is ASK QUESTIONS. Iwata sensei will stand in front of a class after a lesson and say exactly this. God help you if you can't ask a question.... :scared:

The Finite answer on Roshukai is this:
Grades are held to 6th dan. Not affiliated to ZNKR or ZNIR, only Roshukai Japan. There have been many discussions over the years on gradings and what we want to do. As someone who has done this for a long time, grades are not important to me, but my standard is, as well as Iwata senseis' opinion of that standard.
The reason we have stuck with the dan system is that is what is known commonly in the West. Traditionally MJER follows the kongen no maki system, and we are interested in using that. the problem is that the 'grade' is only of four levels; student, senior student, teacher, senior teacher. As a comparison 5th dan (English teachers) is about senior student....Nishimoto sensei is at teacher level, Iwata sensei is senior teacher level.... The question is how many people would be prepare to say " I'm a student" until 6th dan?

To explain our grading system: up to shodan, all seiza no bu plus related questions such as 'name parts of the sword', safety rules, history of the ryu,etc, plus essay.
nidan, seiza no bu done well. sandan/yondan tate hiza no bu, godan, the rest. As the grades go up there is also a requirement of examples from the previous sets. Needless to say I expect better seiza no bu from sandan than I do from shodan level. There is also tameshigiri to show you can cut correctly. You may notice gradings are over a full weekend...that way we can watch you all the time...we dont give grades away for nothing.

Now...ASK ME A QUESTION. (if I dont know the answer I know someone who will...)

[plewis66]

Now...ASK ME A QUESTION. (if I dont know the answer I know someone who will...)
Hai! Domo, Chikodan, domo arigato.

Personally, I like the sound of kongen no maki. I have practiced Tai Chi Chuan for twenty years. In that style (traditionaly done, at least), there are no grades at all. When I am sat before a teacher, I am student, and when I am sat before class, I am teacher.

Please forgive my continuing confusion. It is my failing.

The only point of reference I have for grading systems is from when I practiced Shotokan Karate, more than twenty years ago. As I recall, in the system in Shotokan, 'dan' grades were 'black belt' grades, and prior to that, there were coloured grades.

Is that not the case with MJER? Is the first grade taken shodan?

Thank you.

[chidokan]

We do club gradings to second kyu but dont make a big deal of it... no cost to members as far as I know (not in my dojo anyway) and it is more a thing to 'put you on the spot' so you can go out and do your stuff when at the larger seminars. No belts awarded as such, blue green etc but some clubs do a certificate to make a little ceremony of it. I may do that myself shortly as I am running a University dojo so the students may not be with me that long, and it would be nice to give them something to take away, before they go back home, hopefully to join their local club.
Ikkyu is done at the main seminar in summer, although if someone is capable of passing shodan we will award it (this is unusual but not unheard of). Your teacher will tell you when you are ready for grading so dont worry about it and just get on with your training.

[plewis66]

Thanks again Chidokan.

[chidokan]

to quote Iwata sensei..." Next question...NOW, YOU (points at poor unsuspecting student) ASK ME A QUESTION!" :ogre: