Japan Hitokiri?

[Kenshin Himura]

I belive there were hitokiri (assassin) before and during the Bakamatsu in Japan. Anybody know if they exist today?

[Will]

Actually, yes they do...but they're not very good because they're on tv all the time...you might have seen them, ever heard of such cartoons as "Rurouni Kenshin" and stuff..?

[ALI G]

Izint dare some Anime forumz dat youz can visitz?????? Maybez youz can daydreamz wid da odda cosplay & anime dorkz...

[Dan Shea]

Actually I heard they're recruiting in Connecticut right now...
You have to be willing to give up your normal everyday life and they will fly you to Japan and train you in the secret art of the reverse blade katana. :laugh:

[LNGUYEN]

But the most important question they ask you is : have anyone seen your face yet?

[Kenshin Himura]

... wow you guys really enjoy mocking me, dont you? I read about Hitkoiris in a history book at school. -.-x is there a problem with liking the history of Japan? lol ^^x'

[nodachi]

Times change, so I doubt there is a place in today's society for assassins. I'm sure most people assume this. The only other name for an "assassin" today would be mafia guy or thug. I'm sure that's why your post is not being taken seriously.

[Shiro]

Hitokiri is just a word for assassin, there wasn't an assassin class or something. I think they were just samurai ordered to kill someone, nothing more.

And don't start talking about ninja, I have a bad feeling about it..... :D

[Khabbi]

Ninja ? I like the sound of that , lets get the thread going :ermm:

[gUnDaL]

ninjas lose to samurais :smoker:

[supernils]

Times change, so I doubt there is a place in today's society for assassins. I'm sure most people assume this. The only other name for an "assassin" today would be mafia guy or thug. I'm sure that's why your post is not being taken seriously.
I believe that organizations like the CIA, Mossad etc, runs that sort of "biznizz". The infamous swedish säpo probably would if they could only find their way out of eachothers bottoms first (maybe slighty unfair but... nah!)
Maybe they are not always as "stealthy" as you expect an assassin to be but that's just splitting hairs.

[Hyaku]

I belive there were hitokiri (assassin) before and during the Bakamatsu in Japan. Anybody know if they exist today?

Yep you got it right Baka-matsu

[Shiro]

Yep you got it right Baka-matsu

I didn't even notice that one :D

[JimB]

Every counrty that has a modern military has some form of 'assassin' whether they are defined as an arm of the state intelligence gathering agency or a specialized unit of that nations military. As Japan had limitations placed upon it's military by the Allied powers in WWII I doubt that they have such a thing now. (unless the US has turned a blind eye twoards it's formation) I have read that some yakuza gangs have specially trained members that specialize in killing rivial mob bosses but most information regarding the yakuza is questionable at best. From a military history perspective I would say you posed an interesting question Kenshin.

[watanabe2k]

Yep you got it right Baka-matsu
obviously referring to the Stupid Pine Tree:smiley:

[ZrJn89]

... wow you guys really enjoy mocking me, dont you? I read about Hitkoiris in a history book at school. -.-x is there a problem with liking the history of Japan? lol ^^x'
actually yes their were hitokiri, although probably frowned upon, ur favorite character kenshin was based off of kawaki gensai, who at first glance could mistaken for being a woman. gensai was one of the four great hitokiri, he was known for killing the idealist named Sakuma Shozan in one swing, he developed his own style called Shiranui ryu.

[Sakabatou]

actually yes their were hitokiri, although probably frowned upon, ur favorite character kenshin was based off of kawaki gensai, who at first glance could mistaken for being a woman. gensai was one of the four great hitokiri, he was known for killing the idealist named Sakuma Shozan in one swing, he developed his own style called Shiranui ryu.
cool. thanks for the info.

[Dawnix Heosphe]

(Smileing) Being a Hitokiri in this age will never do you any good bullets have taken the wave. Dont live in the past it will never work out theres always a tragedy.

[Galo]

Hitokiri means "assasin". As it is. No glamour nor something like a noble title and stuff. So, if you ask if they exist today?, yes!, in fact there's a whole industry for it out there. Drug cartels, the yakuza clans, any semi-organized mafia, the military and even some not-so-clean goverment agencies from (pick your favorite country) use assasins today. But, as hitokiri used katanas during the Bakumatsu, today's assasins use a complete array of modern weaponry such as hand guns, submachine guns, grenades, etc. Ok, the always-trustable combat knife is still in use, but that from using a katana as your main "assasin" weapon is a far statement. As JimB stated, there's a lot gossip around yakuza's ways and methods, but many of 'em are plain myth, due in part to the mixture of fear and respect some japanese have to these underground groups.
From my tactical point of view, a sword-wielding assasin would work only as a stealth single-target infiltrating assasin, for he would very hardly be a match against a 3-4 fire-armed bodyguard bunch and taking over a moving car (modern "assasinable" people hardly walk, and even less in dark alleys like those in the Bakumatsu Kyoto, u know?). Then again, a silenced gun would do the same job :wink:

[Sakabatou]

(Smileing) Being a Hitokiri in this age will never do you any good bullets have taken the wave. Dont live in the past it will never work out theres always a tragedy.
I didnt say I wanted to be an assassin I just asked about asassins that I did. lol

[munenmuso]

Yes. There are still existing hitokiris waiting for their next victim. actually I'm one of them and I've been dying to tell it to another soul who is already dead because I have to kill him cause he knew my secret. Do you still want to know?

[Sakabatou]

Yes. There are still existing hitokiris waiting for their next victim. actually I'm one of them and I've been dying to tell it to another soul who is already dead because I have to kill him cause he knew my secret. Do you still want to know?
lol BS I really bought hitokiri exist today. Theres probobly just places that train you to know stuff like them.
Fine, tell us Mr. hitokiri. lol

[Shiro]

lol BS I really bought hitokiri exist today. Theres probobly just places that train you to know stuff like them.
Fine, tell us Mr. hitokiri. lol

Hitokiri is just a word for assassin, don't you get it? There is nothing mystical about them, they were just samurai sent out to kill someone...... and I know, you're only 14 and you have the right to dream, but don't dream about fake mysticism and stuff :p.

I love Kenshin, but when I read your posts I sometimes wish it never existed........

[Sakabatou]

lol I wasnt sure if Hitokiri were more like ninjas or samurais just doing assassinations... There is a big difference between the 2 I think.
I wasnt even referring to anything about Kenshin in this post, 99% of the time I use the word hitokiri when saying assassin.

... hm.. I wonder when Ali G is going to show up and comment on me about making some hedgetrimmer style. i think he's stalking me oO all he does is find my posts and makes rude comments. what can I do? Eh, just ignore him. I dont know why he's stalking my posts. lol I don't think he even reads them. Only the old ones where I had a different opinion.

[Caleb]

Lol, I think sakabatou missed the point about the telling of his secret thing. Reminds me of my younger brother (fantasizing, always asking what if questions- constantly!, ...never shuts up).

[Dawnix Heosphe]

I didnt say I wanted to be an assassin I just asked about asassins that I did. lolI know what you ment, and don't assume words Sakabatou.

[Sakabatou]

Lol, I think sakabatou missed the point about the telling of his secret thing. Reminds me of my younger brother (fantasizing, always asking what if questions- constantly!, ...never shuts up).
Telling of secret thing wha???

[Dawnix Heosphe]

Hitokiri is just a word for assassin, don't you get it? There is nothing mystical about them, they were just samurai sent out to kill someone...... and I know, you're only 14 and you have the right to dream, but don't dream about fake mysticism and stuff :p.

I love Kenshin, but when I read your posts I sometimes wish it never existed........
Yes I agree, Ever since this rurouni thing came out thats all my son watch's and he asks me if I can perform the wazas Now I know hes only 12 but the show ruins all points and morals of the art Kendo. It does'nt teach anything that deals with any art. super speed, techniques that crack the ground, weird names and things that can't even be done.
But anyway I think there are no more Hitokiri just those that wish to dream about it and never really killing anyone. Because Munenmuso if you are one you of all others would know that you won't hesitate to kill anyone wich I know you can never do.

[taiwnezboi]

Yes I agree, Ever since this rurouni thing came out thats all my son watch's and he asks me if I can perform the wazas Now I know hes only 12 but the show ruins all points and morals of the art Kendo. It does'nt teach anything that deals with any art. super speed, techniques that crack the ground, weird names and things that can't even be done.
But anyway I think there are no more Hitokiri just those that wish to dream about it and never really killing anyone. Because Munenmuso if you are one you of all others would know that you won't hesitate to kill anyone wich I know you can never do.

it's a good ANIME! anime is for entertainment! :cheerful:

[Bleda]

Many of the strikes in kenshin are actually real believe it or not (okay not the fatasy stuff of ground breaking etc) but kenshin is based on a real style (batoujutsu <sic>). It has less to do with kendo and alot more to do with iaijutsu though.

[Sakabatou]

Actually what Kenshin does... well.. most of them are just simple things anybody can do or counter. They just make kenshin look like some superman guy and crap. lol Ahh he does is strike alot, and jump and slash. lol

[Shiro]

Many of the strikes in kenshin are actually real believe it or not (okay not the fatasy stuff of ground breaking etc) but kenshin is based on a real style (batoujutsu <sic>). It has less to do with kendo and alot more to do with iaijutsu though.

Even if the strikes are correct Kenshin is still only an anime/manga.
Don't forget, Kenshin fights, the techniques might be well used but might be of poor quality if you judge them by Iaido-forms for example.
I really enjoy Kenshin and it's really understandable that it sparks intrest for Iaido or Kenjutsu but if you want to learn those arts you should NOT think about Kenshin and just do what your sensei tells you to do.

[Sakabatou]

True. I mean he even tells his opponents the name of the attack he's going to do so when he does it they kinda know what he's doing.. I don't think anybody could really be a copy of Kenshin because its fantasy.. nobosy should really belive that then can make kenshin whatever REAL... maybe close, maybe simalar, but not exact. (wow I'm contradicting everything I said my first day here. lol)

[Yowai]

Maybe we should have an anime-tards forum solely for discussing the damn cartoon?

[twix]

Maybe we should have an anime-tards forum solely for discussing the damn cartoon?
you mean like this one (http://madboards.madman.com.au/viewforum.php?f=16)?


:devious:

[SHONEN]

whats the difference between hitokiri and ninja therr both assasins arnt they??

[Sakabatou]

Hitokiri are samurai assassins I belive... And ninja are.. well, what else? Ninja. lol

[Caleb]

If a samurai did something illegal, wouldn't he have to commit sepuku? Just wondering. Im not all that informed on "bushido" and the ways japan worked back then, except the shogun and the daito stuff. Enunciation porfavor?

[hyouriittai]

"LOL" ":D" ":)" Why? Why is it always "lolz"?

[Genji]

Hitokiri are samurai assassins I belive... And ninja are.. well, what else? Ninja. lol
er not quite.... a ninja could be a samurai actuly most were samurai it was very rare to see one that was not of samurai breed...but origanaly nija was a term for a mercenary...and then people got confused b/c people thought nija were shinobis.....

[taiwnezboi]

er not quite.... a ninja could be a samurai actuly most were samurai it was very rare to see one that was not of samurai breed...but origanaly nija was a term for a mercenary...and then people got confused b/c people thought nija were shinobis.....

so ninja and shinobi are different? what's the difference? haha I always thought they were the same because they have games like Ninja Gaiden and Shinobi =P

[Genji]

well through the magic of hollywood and video games they have confused the two so now they are the close enough to be called either or but to get technical shinobi are the guys usualy portraid in black climbing walls

[El Hijo de Dios]

well, I just want to know who were the four great hitokiri in the bakumatsu.
I know Kawakami Gensai was one of them, bu who were the others?

[Herman]

Okada Izo, Tanaka Shinbe, Nakamura Hanjiro

[MAX22]

Gensai Kawakami is one of the famous hitokiri that ever lived,and the difference between hitokiri and ninja, I think ninja's work includes spying,sabotage,and assasination.

[cbubacz]

When you talk of "hitokiri", it realli is just a word that means "killer".

The group of 4 hitokiri previously mentioned were members of a political group called the Shinsengumi. They were basically political assassins who wanted to cling to the old order when the Tokugawa came to power but killing rival political figures. There's a number of movies about the group, specifically a movie called "Tenchu", which recounts some of the members (Izo, and Shinbe specifically).

Ninja's are a whole different ballgame.

[Nanbanjin]

When you talk of "hitokiri", it realli is just a word that means "killer".

The group of 4 hitokiri previously mentioned were members of a political group called the Shinsengumi. They were basically political assassins who wanted to cling to the old order when the Tokugawa came to power but killing rival political figures. There's a number of movies about the group, specifically a movie called "Tenchu", which recounts some of the members (Izo, and Shinbe specifically).

Ninja's are a whole different ballgame.
I'm no history expert, but I think you might be out be a few hundred years there.

[cbubacz]

I'm no history expert, but I think you might be out be a few hundred years there.
Neither am I, and you are probably right.

[Nanbanjin]

Neither am I, and you are probably right.
I'm out of my depth here, but wasn't Shinsengumi around during the Meiji-restoration?

[cbubacz]

I'm out of my depth here, but wasn't Shinsengumi around during the Meiji-restoration?
You are absolutely right. That's what I get for posting at 1am. The Shinsengumi opposed the restoration.

[fe-taru tora]

the ninja were a organization mostly paid by daimoto to gain information about other clans and daimoto to stage a seige and sometimes they were used as secret killers but mostly for the information.

[OniGlenn]

i guess there's a difference between the hitokiris and ninjas because for one, the hitokiri's identity is known (although he may have a shady backgroud) whereas ninjas usually are anonymous individuals. and aren't ninja's ronin? or are the hitokiris ronin themselves? if they are, i don't think they would recieve the honour they do have if they were still living in feudal Japan. which was what Japan was before the Meiji era, isn't it?

[fe-taru tora]

i guess there's a difference between the hitokiris and ninjas because for one, the hitokiri's identity is known (although he may have a shady backgroud) whereas ninjas usually are anonymous individuals. and aren't ninja's ronin? or are the hitokiris ronin themselves? if they are, i don't think they would recieve the honour they do have if they were still living in feudal Japan. which was what Japan was before the Meiji era, isn't it?

ninja were never seen as honorable but some say that hattori hanzo is a samurai, but even then what one could they be talking about there were 3 hattori hanzo's they were the hattori family and were apart of the hattori clan. All of the is a little off of your question. Ronin were the samurai of no lord, they served them selves they fought and protected for the right amount of koyo or gold pieces. The ninja on the other hand were born into ninja clans and so became a full fledge ninja. The person you speak of I have never heard of were did you get the information ?

[fe-taru tora]

oh yes and feudal Japan was after the fall of meiji empire, the fuedal era also known as the "warring state" was a civil war between shoguns for military control over Japan. it is hard to talk about the ninjas because they kept such a secret life and practice but you can start looking into things by going onto google and put in koga ninja also goto www.samuraiarchives.com it has tones of info ...

[OniGlenn]

ninja were never seen as honorable but some say that hattori hanzo is a samurai, but even then what one could they be talking about there were 3 hattori hanzo's they were the hattori family and were apart of the hattori clan. All of the is a little off of your question. Ronin were the samurai of no lord, they served them selves they fought and protected for the right amount of koyo or gold pieces. The ninja on the other hand were born into ninja clans and so became a full fledge ninja. The person you speak of I have never heard of were did you get the information ?

i don't know if you understood what i was saying because you're quite hard to understand yourself :redface: :confused2 but why hattori hanzo? and very much like the ninjas, samurais were also born into samurai families too. and who was i speaking of? the hitokiri? it literally means "person slayer" or manslayer as the anime defines it but it's better identified as an assasin.

[fe-taru tora]

i don't know if you understood what i was saying because you're quite hard to understand yourself :redface: :confused2 but why hattori hanzo? and very much like the ninjas, samurais were also born into samurai families too. and who was i speaking of? the hitokiri? it literally means "person slayer" or manslayer as the anime defines it but it's better identified as an assasin.

Is all of this pertaining to a cartoon ? if you want information go to www.ninja.com (http://www.ninja.com) or like I posted before www.samuraiarchives.com . Samurai's born into samurai families ? ....please read the book way of the samurai, book not game, and maybe code of the samurai or secrets of the samurai or the book of 5 rings or maybe look on line for koga for ninja, but as far as the people you speak of they sound like mercenary samurai "Ronin" samurai that did not have a job

[OniGlenn]

yeah, i think you're right, i got some of my facts wrong. a bit confusing really for me, heh.. and i wasn't sure about the backgroud of hattori hanzo. so he was a ninja who attained samurai status isn't it? i think most of the people in this thread was refering to the cartoon. i've seen it and it's quite interesting too, a bit unrealisitic sometimes but i think that's how japanese anime goes..

[fe-taru tora]

yeah most of the stories about the ninja are pretty hard to follow, but that is the way the ninja wanted it. I guess it goes to the clieshe "the more you know about something freightening the less you are afraid". As far as Hattori Hanzo :confused2
...that is a mystery but I guess there were three ninja with the name Hattori Hanzo of the Hattori clan, but this is were I get confused. I think it is because the shogun was so amazed by Hanzo's skill that he said he was an honorable warrior so I guess they though of him more of as a samurai

[OniGlenn]

yeah most of the stories about the ninja are pretty hard to follow, but that is the way the ninja wanted it. I guess it goes to the clieshe "the more you know about something freightening the less you are afraid". As far as Hattori Hanzo :confused2
...that is a mystery but I guess there were three ninja with the name Hattori Hanzo of the Hattori clan, but this is were I get confused. I think it is because the shogun was so amazed by Hanzo's skill that he said he was an honorable warrior so I guess they though of him more of as a samurai

it seems to me that you're quite interested in ninjas while i'm more towards samurais :wink: anyway, there's a reference to hattori hanzo's sword in the kill bill movies, is this in any way historically true? it makes it seem like he's a sword-smith rather than a warrior..

[fe-taru tora]

it seems to me that you're quite interested in ninjas while i'm more towards samurais :wink: anyway, there's a reference to hattori hanzo's sword in the kill bill movies, is this in any way historically true? it makes it seem like he's a sword-smith rather than a warrior..
Actually I'm more into the samurai as well but when you read enough samurai books they mention ninja in quit a few. As far as hattori hanzo swords, well I know that he forged knives but no swords. Read some stuff on japanese swords it will tell you that the ken-to or ninja-to ware poorly made swords, partally because the ninja were woodsman and did'nt have mony or material to forge good strong swords, but that's some pointless info for you, sorry some times it just pours out with no organization. If you really want to get some awsome info about samurai read the secrets of the samurai, it will tell you almost anything you would want to know, but not everything.

[Sakabatou]

Haa I remember when I was a little naive obsesee over Kenshin and was being such a little twit here.. .(KenshinHimura.. yeah, that was me.) I'm laughing at all my old posts.. I havent been here in a while, and. .I'm suprised this topic is still up.. probobly what I meant to ask is if theres any modern-day places that teach the art former hitokiri had used during the Tokugawa era.. But thats simple stuff I can just look up on my own.. haha anyways, I'm back.. and.. thanks for keeping the topic up. lol

[Battosai]

Actually I heard they're recruiting in Connecticut right now...
You have to be willing to give up your normal everyday life and they will fly you to Japan and train you in the secret art of the reverse blade katana. :laugh:

Hell yeah, I'm going. Come and get me in Vasteras, Sweden and we're off to Japan! :happy:

[Kitsune]

Hope this helps (and hope nobody already put it, I did not read the whole thing)


Four Hitokiri of the Bakumatsu
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Four Hitokiri of the Bakumatsu (幕末四大人斬り) was a term given to four samurai during the Bakumatsu era in Japanese history. They were against the Tokugawa shogunate (and later, in support of the Meiji Emperor.) Hitokiri, literally meaning "Human Slayer", is a superlative name for this particular caliber of samurai. These four samurai were warrior elite and widely considered undefeatable by normal people. Along with the title of Hitokiri, the four men were also referred to as "The Four Butchers" or "Heaven's Revenge against the enemies of Imperial restoration". Most of them came from the Chōshū-Satsuma provinces, which were largely anti-Bakufu at the time. These notable men were Kawakami Gensai, Nakamura Hanjiro (also known as Kirino Toshiaki), Tanaka Shimbe, and Izo Okada.

Hitokiri is a 1969 film directed by Hideo Gosha and starring Shintaro Katsu as Izo Okada. The anime series Rurouni Kenshin is about a former hitokiri based loosely on Kawakami Gensai.


Kawakami Gensai
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Kawakami Gensai (河上彦斎, 4 December 1834 - 13 January 1871), was an imperialist (in favor of the emperor) and one of the four great Hitokiri (lit. "man-slayer") of the Bakumatsu period of 19th century Japan, and fought against the Western-accommodating Tokugawa shogunate in order to restore the Emperor to power and force all foreigners from Japan. It is said that, at first glance, he could be mistaken for a girl or young boy, but that his nature was indeed the complete opposite. He was recorded as being a cold, disciplined, and calculating warrior. It was also said that he was the most lethal of the four Hitokiri.

Kawakami was a non-practicing Buddhist, but dedicated himself to its study heartily. His discipline was the "lightning-fast" Furanui kenjutsu style, also known as Shiranui-ryu. Kawakami was a loyalist and patriot of the Empire, who, at the time, were called the “Ishin Shishi” group. Because of these beliefs, and his personal strengths in the area of swordsmanship, he became a Hitokiri, or elite samurai assassin, who served the Emperor vehemently.

Kawakami was made more famous for cutting down Sakuma Shōzan, a prominent, pro-western Japanese politician in broad daylight. He was the presumed suspect for many other prominent assassinations, but nothing had ever been proven, and still remains a mystery even to date. After the Meiji restoration ended the era of the samurai, Kawakami taught samurai philosophy for a short time. However, his ideas about isolationism conflicted with those of the government. He was brought in on falsified charges, and executed in the fourth year of the Meiji era (1871).

The character Himura Kenshin from the anime and manga Rurouni Kenshin/Samurai X was loosely based on Kawakami.



So, before mocking someone and sending him (or she) to an anime forum, read a little bit. This information is up on internet for everyone.

[kartoffelngeist]

I sense the wrath of Neil anytime soon...

Some threads just don't know when to die...

[Battosai]

I believe that organizations like the CIA, Mossad etc, runs that sort of "biznizz". The infamous swedish säpo probably would if they could only find their way out of eachothers bottoms first (maybe slighty unfair but... nah!)
Maybe they are not always as "stealthy" as you expect an assassin to be but that's just splitting hairs.


Heard in Ruoruni Kenshin-anime by Himura Kenshin: When I worked as a hitokiri during the Bakumatsu, I used two main strategies, hiding in the shadows and hiding in plain sight!
So there may very well be peoples working for the Swedish SÄPO that's hitokiris and is working by those strategies, you never know!

[Kitsune]

Here? In this forum a dying thread does not exist.... hahahahaha!:laugh:

[Galo]

Why resurrect an almost-dead threat??!?!?!?! :puzzled:
Hope Neil comes quickly and gives this god-forsaken thread a peacefull and swift death. (at least swift) :smoker:

[Hurohoshi]

Very interesting information, I wonder how long men like these trained. In order to be such ruthless killers....Maybe they were as swift as the wind...lol.

But seriously, to gain a title like that in japan...either they spread a lot of rumors about themselves, from perhaps defeating a few famous swordsmen, or they used stealth like tactics where it was really 10 or 12 men instead of one. Like ninja stories....peopel usually in japan thought it was just one ninja when it was probably many.

[kartoffelngeist]

Please Neil?

[Kitsune]

Why Neil? Leave poor Neil alone, he has better things to do in life.

[Kitsune]

Very interesting information, I wonder how long men like these trained. In order to be such ruthless killers....Maybe they were as swift as the wind...lol.

But seriously, to gain a title like that in japan...either they spread a lot of rumors about themselves, from perhaps defeating a few famous swordsmen, or they used stealth like tactics where it was really 10 or 12 men instead of one. Like ninja stories....peopel usually in japan thought it was just one ninja when it was probably many.


Yeah sure, probably that's the whole point of that title.