AUSKF Kodansha exam

[Millerzep]

The testing for 5dan-7dan was held at my dojo yesterday. Fantastic opportunity to see the styles of lots of kendo players that I've never seen before. Everyone came to our normal group practice the night before, and it was a blast getting to practice with everyone.

[E-ronin]

Wow what a great opportunity, do you know what the results were / how many passed for each grade?

Cheers,
Ed

[hl1978]

I know Arai Sensei passed nana-dan.

[Millerzep]

I'm still relatively new to kendo and don't know much of the greater community, so I don't know everyone that tested, but...

3/14 passed for godan
3/9 passed for rokudan
1/8 passed for nanadan (Arai-sensei!!!)

I think there was one kata only person that passed, and I believe were two people testing for the teacher ranks (i think that's what they were) that passed

[MikeW]

Wow, a higher percentage of people passed rokudan than passed sandan at the SEUSKF shinsa last October. Congrats to Arai sensei and all the rest!

[E-ronin]

Thanks Millerzep, it must have been great to watch. Hopefully I'll get there someday :-)

[Rusty Tsuba]

Did any Americans pass at this exam?

[michaelm]

Did any Americans pass at this exam?

AUSKF = All United States Kendo Federation

[Rusty Tsuba]

All United States Kendo = 49/50 States Kendo Federation

American citizens on testing board ?

American citizens passing the shinsa?

[Big One]

All United States Kendo = 49/50 States Kendo Federation

American citizens on testing board ?

American citizens passing the shinsa?

You mean white people?

[ender84567]

Is kato sensei an american citizen? I'm sure many of the board at least have green cards. Tagawa Sensei has canadian citizenship, does that count? Not sure what your point is. Stroud sensei should be eligible to sit on the testing board now, but I dont know that he has ever been invited too. Americans pass all the time, whether or not there were any testing is a different story

[tango]

Well...
I guess all I can say is.... "in before the lock."

[Millerzep]

Sorry, I didn't ask their citizenship. I do know they all live in the US, with most being in California (also saw Alaska, Illinois, and New York), as I had to get their addresses. Maeda-sensei was one of the shinsa judges, he's the only one I knew by name because he has practiced with us before.

[ender84567]

oh its pretty easy to guess who was on the panel as it is pretty much the asukf board, the hachidans were likely at least on there for sure..

[R Stroud]

Stroud sensei should be eligible to sit on the testing board now, but I dont know that he has ever been invited too.

I am not currently an AUSKF board member. Earlier this year I resigned my position over differences in opinion as to how the board should support its membership and develop kendo within the US.

[Curtis]

I am not currently an AUSKF board member. Earlier this year I resigned my position over differences in opinion as to how the board should support its membership and develop kendo within the US.

When you consider that the European Kendo Federation has currently has 51 non-Asian and 4 Japanese nanadan it becomes quite clear that the U.S. needs a better development program. We will likely never catch up to the Europeans. As I understand it most of them passed in Japan. The EKF now has sufficient kodansha that testing in Japan is no longer a requirement.

[tango]

When you consider that the European Kendo Federation has currently has 51 non-Asian and 4 Japanese nanadan it becomes quite clear that the U.S. needs a better development program. We will likely never catch up to the Europeans. As I understand it most of them passed in Japan. The EKF now has sufficient kodansha that testing in Japan is no longer a requirement.

This is very interesting (slight thread drift)...

[Curtis]

This is very interesting (slight thread drift)...

I don't consider it a drift at all, it is all part of the results. If you were to compile the statistics from the U.S. tests you might be surprised at the data. With that said I reviewed the video of all the tests in July of this year. Frankly I would not have passed most of those testing either. In fact I probably would have had a lower pass rate. People are not as far as I can see preparing themselves for the test. Many continue to take the test without correcting deficiencies. I have been taking video of myself and seeking advice to correct defects as they are referred to.

Some of the things are as simple as dressing correctly. Showing up to shinsa with faded or worn out equipment does not win you any points with the examiners. I know sometimes there is a belief that this shows how hard you have practiced over the years. At a seminar in Japan for shinsa I listened to the sensei chastise a participant for that very thing.

[tango]

I don't consider it a drift at all, it is all part of the results. If you were to compile the statistics from the U.S. tests you might be surprised at the data.


I've only been present at one kodansha testing and I don't recall all of the challengers as a group. I don't want to come off as challenging the point you're making (please accept my apologies if I do), but do you think part of the data might have anything to do with the sheer number (or lack thereof?) of non-Asians able/eligible to challenge for kodansha levels?

Quite frankly, I don't even know how many non-Asians are AUSKF members.... don't know how those numbers even compare to Europe.... don't even know how many non-Asian AUSKF members are currently eligible for 5.dan+ .....

FWIW, I think I can count on one hand the number of non-Asian 5.dan+ who are currently in the SEUSKF..... (possibly even one finger)... Is this because there are significantly fewer non-Asian SEUSKF members? Is it because non-Asian members aren't good enough, don't stay with kendo long enough, or haven't been around long enough, to be in a position to challenge for kodansha levels? If there is some truth to that, is that a similar case for all the other federations? Is there something else happening? ....... I have no idea about answers to any of those questions..

Is there some underlying reason (which may not be obvious to me) to explain WHY there may not be more non-Asian AUSKF members? WHY more non-Asian members may not be sticking with kendo? WHY more non-Asian members aren't ready or in position to challenge kodansha levels?

How do non-Asian players in Europe compare to those in the U.S.? Are they just better overall? If so, why?
If there are more non-Asian players in Europe than in the U.S., why is that? and how can we "catch up"?

...didn't think I'd have this many questions when I started typing all this...

...now I think I really might be causing a thread drift..

[Curtis]

Currently in the U.S. by the information given to me there are 10 regular active, 1 semi active, and 7 inactive nanadan that are U.S. born of Asian and non-Asian decent. I do not have the numbers for Japanese born nanadans residing in the U.S.

[tango]

Anybody know if we have a bottleneck issue in the AUSKF? If so, I'd guess either at 4.dan or 5.dan .... (????)

EDIT: I mean... Asian, non-Asian... either way... is there a bottleneck issue anywhere along the line that anyone is aware of?

[Curtis]

Anybody know if we have a bottleneck issue in the AUSKF? If so, I'd guess either at 4.dan or 5.dan .... (????)

EDIT: I mean... Asian, non-Asian... either way... is there a bottleneck issue anywhere along the line that anyone is aware of?

At 4 dan I would call it a lack of preparation in training for the 5 dan test more than a bottleneck based on what I have seen as an examiner.

At the U.S, level we have no program in place to prepare people for the test or skills improvement. The yearly camp does not address this issue. At the July camp I thought there was some good instruction but not enough targeted instruction for this purpose. Even though within the camp there was a message there to improve I'm not sure how many really got it. I believe there is a problem among the people training and the leadership. In the end you must take responsibility for your improvement but some help and tools along the way would be nice.

[KendoSlug]

When you consider that the European Kendo Federation has currently has 51 non-Asian and 4 Japanese nanadan it becomes quite clear that the U.S. needs a better development program. We will likely never catch up to the Europeans. As I understand it most of them passed in Japan. The EKF now has sufficient kodansha that testing in Japan is no longer a requirement.

Yeah but the EKF is not a sovereign body like the AUSKF and the different states federation are really independant and not really eager to obey a superior instance apart from the IKF .

And in France at least, the higher dan grade you can pass is 5 dan.

On a side note, of the fifteen-some french nanadan only one is of japanese ascendance

[Curtis]

Yeah but the EKF is not a sovereign body like the AUSKF and the different states federation are really independant and not really eager to obey a superior instance apart from the IKF .

And in France at least, the higher dan grade you can pass is 5 dan.

On a side note, of the fifteen-some french nanadan only one is of japanese ascendance

Yes, this is true. But if you consider the population of the EKF and how they promote kendo it is relative to the subject.

[jjcruiser]

how they promote kendo it is relative to the subject.

How do the AUSKF and EKF promote Kendo differently?

[Curtis]

How do the AUSKF and EKF promote Kendo differently?

From what I've seen it is access to seminars and such amongst the federations around Europe and the cooperation.

[R Stroud]

And in France at least, the higher dan grade you can pass is 5 dan.

On a side note, of the fifteen-some french nanadan only one is of japanese ascendance

It is worth considering that the French Kendo Federation has something like 8-10k members compared to the 4-5k in the US.

The point people might want to focus upon is not about Asian vs non-Asian, but rather upon % of American born members.

[ender84567]

Sorry to hear that Stroud sensei, but I am not surprised, given who my sensei is, you can understand I have heard all the horror stories and am aware of the (pardon my french) bullshit involved in being on the AUSKF board. I hate to delve into politics but it seems things have been changing some with Tagawa sensei at the education helm, at least as far as getting some seminars outside of socal.

[KendoSlug]

It is worth considering that the French Kendo Federation has something like 8-10k members compared to the 4-5k in the US.

The point people might want to focus upon is not about Asian vs non-Asian, but rather upon % of American born members.

I was under the (false) impression that there were more kendoka in the US probably because of the predominance of american kendoka posting here, the good results during the WKC and the number of kendo equipment online shop over there. Just for my own education when were founded the oldest kendo federation in the US or dojo ?

In France, it would be in 65

[Toshiro Mifune]

I don't consider it a drift at all, it is all part of the results. If you were to compile the statistics from the U.S. tests you might be surprised at the data. With that said I reviewed the video of all the tests in July of this year. Frankly I would not have passed most of those testing either. In fact I probably would have had a lower pass rate. People are not as far as I can see preparing themselves for the test. Many continue to take the test without correcting deficiencies. I have been taking video of myself and seeking advice to correct defects as they are referred to.

Some of the things are as simple as dressing correctly. Showing up to shinsa with faded or worn out equipment does not win you any points with the examiners. I know sometimes there is a belief that this shows how hard you have practiced over the years. At a seminar in Japan for shinsa I listened to the sensei chastise a participant for that very thing.

I saw the test and also saw video of the test afterward. It is easier to scrutinize video but I think the results were about right judging by being there not video. Especially because surprisingly they had 3 hachidans. Hamasaki-sensi (hanshi), Satoh-sensei and Tagawa-sensei. Those that passed I knew most of them probably had regular practice with 5th Dan and Up kendoka. Feeling that kind of pressure from another partner and regularly practing that way has to become a habit. Asian/no-asian I don't think makes much of difference but I do think speaking Japanese or reading kanji makes a difference. There is a great amount of information now on kendo in books or on video but 99.5% of it in Japanese (plug: Except Kendo World and that is why I subscribe). Europe I would imagine it is easier for the kendoka to see practice regularly with higher ranked kendoka by European Rail or car. Plus I would imagine more European students have applied to IBU or other Japanese Universities.

[Inouye02]

so does anybody have results?

[tango]

so does anybody have results?

The only person's name I have seen published as having passed is Kunitoshi Arai-sensei of Atlanta (7.dan).
An email went out to SEUSKF dojos from Arai-sensei this past Monday, where it did not mention if anyone else passed, but it listed the seven other 7.dan candidates:
Martinez (Northern California)
Uchida (Rocky Mountain)
Oishi (New York)
Tanoue (Northern California)
Sakaue (Southern California)
Lolimar (Southern California)
Kato (Southern California)

Don't know how much that helps.

This was posted on the first page of the thread:
3/14 passed for godan
3/9 passed for rokudan
1/8 passed for nanadan

[tango]

To get back to the slight thread drift a bit, it might be worth mentioning (FWIW) that Shinichi Koike-sensei (AUSKF VP for promotions/examinations) has been tasked by the AUSKF with providing assistance to regional federations in helping people pass kodansha shinsa.

My understanding is that the AUSKF gave Koike-sensei a budget to travel to any federation that requests a seminar "How to Pass a Promotional Test" (dunno if that's the official term, but that's what I've heard it referred to as). I know he has been to SEUSKF twice (Charlotte NC in 2009 and Columbia SC in 2010), as well as Houston, and maybe one of the NY federations. The Charlotte guys made a video of one of those seminars and sent them out to many (if not all?) SEUSKF dojos. I found it quite interesting myself.

I wonder how many AUSKF members (and federations leaders) even know about this available resource?

[Curtis]

I wonder how many AUSKF members (and federations leaders) even know about this available resource?

First I heard of it. However, Koike sensei did offer to do one with us but it was not mentioned about the AUSKF supporting it.

[tango]

First I heard of it. However, Koike sensei did offer to do one with us but it was not mentioned about the AUSKF supporting it.

WTF?!!?!?

I haven't been able to make either of the seminars he did in the SEUSKF (being divorced with a 3 yr old daughter gives me, at best, 25ish available weekends a year... and of the remaining weekends, I gotta do housework and yardwork at some point... so... I'm pretty limited).

[Neil Gendzwill]

My advice is that if you get a chance to attend a seminar with Koike-sensei, take it. He's a great teacher and a really nice guy.

[jmarsten]

First I heard of it. However, Koike sensei did offer to do one with us but it was not mentioned about the AUSKF supporting it.

Actually the very first time Koike sensei did this seminar was as part of the PNKF seminar a couple of years ago. He had the 4 Dan and up section and the subject was taking the kodansha test. Regarding the AUSKF support it is his travel, meals and hotel to the place.

[jmarsten]

The grading panel sensei this time were:
Maeda -SE, Ariga -EC, Ebihara - AE, Tagawa - MW, Kato -GNE, Hori - SCKO
In general the panel has consisted of directors of AUSKF. I have been on the panel 3 times. I believe that instead of the peanut butter approach to the AUSKF kendo camp that a separate camp for 4-6 Dan be conducted addressing the issue of the shinsa. I believe that would be far more productive and have the shinsa at the end of the camp.

[Curtis]

Actually the very first time Koike sensei did this seminar was as part of the PNKF seminar a couple of years ago. He had the 4 Dan and up section and the subject was taking the kodansha test. Regarding the AUSKF support it is his travel, meals and hotel to the place.

Yup, remember that one. Thought it was good. No mention of the AUSKF though when he brought it up in February this year. Think we need some publicity on this.

[Inouye02]

anybody know who passed 5dan and 6dan? anybody?

[ben]

To get back to the slight thread drift a bit, it might be worth mentioning (FWIW) that Shinichi Koike-sensei (AUSKF VP for promotions/examinations) has been tasked by the AUSKF with providing assistance to regional federations in helping people pass kodansha shinsa.

My understanding is that the AUSKF gave Koike-sensei a budget to travel to any federation that requests a seminar "How to Pass a Promotional Test" (dunno if that's the official term, but that's what I've heard it referred to as). I know he has been to SEUSKF twice (Charlotte NC in 2009 and Columbia SC in 2010), as well as Houston, and maybe one of the NY federations. The Charlotte guys made a video of one of those seminars and sent them out to many (if not all?) SEUSKF dojos. I found it quite interesting myself.

I wonder how many AUSKF members (and federations leaders) even know about this available resource?


Nice work!

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tango again." :(

b

[Ralutin]

anybody know who passed 5dan and 6dan? anybody?

5 dan: Ryoma Tominaga (SCKF)...I don't know who the other two were...

6 dan: Brandon Harada, Song Choi and Kohjiro Kinno, all from SCKF.