Beginner's luck

[Kawakami Gensai]

Hello, my name is Tyler. Nice to meet you all.
I have always had a fascination with Japanese culture, namely martial arts. I took Tae Kwan Do for around a year and a half and made it to purple belt (4th belt in the class, followed by brown and then black) however, I dropped out. I found it too tame for me (no, I have a great deal of patience, but I didn't feel like I was learning what I was seeking). I am very use to the katana now, even for a long time I felt as if I have had some inate knowledge on using a katana. Keeping both feet firm with even distance pointing in the same direction preventing bad footing, keeping the Shinai or blade pointed at my opponent's head (which I later clearified meant to be aimed at the throat or eyes) and the hilt close to the belly button area. I even conceived the concept of what I later to learned have been called in some schools "Iai" and "Nuki", which is the act of using your sheath or scabbard (if you prefer) to remove your blade at a faster rate for a very swift attack. In a few duels I've had (some with friends in kendo) I've actually won, but some I have lost.

As to what to blame for this, I do not know. I use to be really thin, but right now I'm around 5ft 10 and 200 pounds, so I am somewhat overweight. I thought this was the obvious problem but I have seen people of equal physical stature doing quite well in kendo. Maybe it's also the fact that I have no schooling in the art of the sword. As for right now, I have no interest in going to a dojo again (right now I have no time to take up lessons nor the means of transportation) However, if anyone knows of anyway I can perfect my knowledge similiar to that of going to a dojo (example, free online training guides or tutoring) I would love to obtain some info. Thanks for your time in advance.
P.S. (Keep in mind, I am left-handed, so if you make any suggestions please kindly let me know if this alters any of my grips or stances. Thank you)

[Kawakami Gensai]

Also, as for my over weight problem affecting any training, yes I know how to fix that, so if you want to only make small recomendations about that, I would rather have advice on sword techniques please.

[Yowai]

You're not "somewhat overweight." You're fat.

You seem to be more suited to practicing imaginary samurai play than playing Kendo. If you had even a single Kendo lesson, your stupid enthusiasm will vanish.

Don't bother with Kendo and continue living your samurai fantasies.

[Chopstix]

*ka-boom tish*

:D

[Will]

Um...to save everyone lots of post and stuff...just read this similar thread.
http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2235
if you want the cliff notes, You can't learn kendo online, through books, etc...you can only learn it at a dojo.

[tango]

the only comment i will make is that there are no left-handed swordsmen.

[Shiro]

GO TO A DOJO! That's the only and best advice I can/want to give....... :)

[Neil Gendzwill]

the only comment i will make is that there are no left-handed swordsmen.
Gyaku chudan is an acceptable kamae, and I have talked to several sensei who had no problem teaching it. I haven't seen it used, but there is no rule against it.

Original poster - you're wasting your time here. Go find a dojo and train, or stay in your backyard with your fantasy life. We'll help you with the former but not the latter.

[AlexM]

I think there should be a rule against people using really weird, convoluted and obviously fake Japanese names on the boards...

Memo to all those that send email to a dojo asking for practice times and details: never mention that you're "comfortable" or "used to" a katana... we'll just think you're nuts.

[Ren Blade]

In a few duels I've had (some with friends in kendo) I've actually won, but some I have lost.So your friends train in Kendo? You should see if they would teach you some basics. At least then you would have something real to practice til you have the money and a way of transporting yourself to a dojo for more proper and complete training if you want to seriously train swordsmanship.

[Cypher]

It seems we have a Kenshin fan amongst us...someone who searched on Google for 'Hitokiri' and found the name of Kawakami Gensai (otherwise called Komori Genjiro or Takada Genbe) Why does everyone like this romanticised b.s. shadow assassin stuff? It doesn't mean crap nowadays, so why keep fantasizing over it?

This is called 'KENDO-world', not 'fantasy anime swordsmanship-world'. Sorry to be blunt, but after browsing the threads and finding so many similar things, it seems some people have just...missed the point. And you cant be 'comfortable' with a katana if you never learned to train properly. I'm sorry, but that is the truth. Ask anyone. Well, anyone not obsessed with anime swordsmen. Nothing against anime or manga, as I watch and read it myself, but when it comes to training you have to face the fact that you cant use Hiten Mitsurugi waza. Thank you for reading.

[Hai_hai]

...As to what to blame for this, I do not know. I use to be really thin, but right now I'm around 5ft 10 and 200 pounds, so I am somewhat overweight. I thought this was the obvious problem but I have seen people of equal physical stature doing quite well in kendo....

You blame yourself for eating too much.

[Kawakami Gensai]

1)No, I got the name for a research paper I did on "Bushido" way back in the 9th grade which tied in with Bakamatsu. I was not a "Kenshin fan" till probably last year. Nor do I want "fantasy swordsmen".
2) I was hoping to find an easier way to learn some "techniques" in my own home. Obviously you people who even take kendo don't realize their are form guides........You cannot learn the complete way without going to a dojo.....
2)I don't eat much at all.......
3)Thanks for the down right rude comments. Obviously this forum is not what I thought it would be. I do not plan to be be pampered or baby talked to, but making such rude comments, I thought Kendo was about teaching respect. I was foolish to come here, when people can't even master the main foundation of kendo.

[Hattori Hanzo]

Yes Kendo is highly about form and the way it is done, and if training yourself instead of acquiring proper you pick up that which it is not...improper form which sets in and is hard to detrain.

Kendo can be aggressive but also the average Keiko session I have had has also been very organized.

At the expense of sounding like an expert which I am not...I got the this is Kendo book and let me tell you after going to a dojo and reading the book, there is a big difference true the book is a great reference....false the book is a sole teacher.

Just because a monkey can climb a pole doesn't mean it gets free cable.

[Kawakami Gensai]

Please do not take me wrong, last poster, but I seem to be stereotyped here as some person who thinks all the information of Kendo can be obtained by home trials......
highly incorrect. I do oneday intend to join a dojo, probably within the next year, but for now I want to get some foundation and practice before actually joining. I already know of the basic stance of chudan, I would like to know continuations of such form, anything that gives simple instructions, such as this,
jodan-no-kamae
A stance where the shinai is held above one’s head. The stance where the shinai is held with boh hands and the right foot is forward is called morote-migi-jodan-no-kamae (or migi-jodan-no-kamae), and the stance where the shinai is held with both hands and the left foor is forward is called morote-hidari-jodan-no-kamae. It is an offensive stance.

Form guides or definitions like this. I just want practice, I don't expect to become a master of kendo at my own home with no sensai...

And for the record, why do people love to act like just because a person uses a "Fantasy TV" show they don't have the right to learn something? My basis for wanting to join Kendo is for the sport of challenge, the thrill of the fight, learning discipline and techniques perfecting mind body and soul. Now, when I did Tae Kwon Do when I was a kid, guess what my influence was? Street Fighter 2. STREET FIGHTER 2, now will somebody please tell me, why some people who have never even heard of that game in my same dojo could not achieve in more time than I had? Why is it so wrong that somebody has something "not real" driving them on? That sole reason of wanting to be like "Ken or Ryu" kept me in real good shape and trying as hard as I can. It was probably the best motivation I've had when it came to learning something. And even then I never expected to learn how to throw fireballs or do some shoryuken, I have a brain people, just like everybody else. I understand some people think taking kendo and carrying a sakabato will transform them into the hitokiri battosai, I, am not one of those people. But to be short, I don't really care if someone is. They'll realize soon enough they have limits, but why does it matter what motivates a person? Some people are motivated to learn martial arts just to fight......so why do people love to critisize one's reason?

[Kaoru]

Kawakami-san,

Advice:

Do a search and read all my posts. There, you will see ALL the reasons WHY to NOT use a REAL BLADE and why you should get proper instruction. PLEASE PUT IT AWAY. GO to a dojo. This forum does NOT teach how to use a sword. Please understand that. This forum is full of letters of the alphabet forming words only. They cannot teach you. ONLY a sensei can teach you. Please do a search on my posts. I don't really want to repeat everything again. Sorry...

Oh, your swords are most likely wallhangers and very dangerous, Don't believe me? Wait until that glued-in blade wiggles loose and goes flying out one day from use. It has happened... Plus, those blades are stainless steel and break very easily. I am telling you all this for your safety. I hope you understand.

Kaoru

[tango]

Gyaku chudan is an acceptable kamae, and I have talked to several sensei who had no problem teaching it. I haven't seen it used, but there is no rule against it.

Original poster - you're wasting your time here. Go find a dojo and train, or stay in your backyard with your fantasy life. We'll help you with the former but not the latter.

hmmm.. never heard of/seen it... i'll check it out (for info purposes only)...

thanks for the heads up ;)

[Will]

It matters the way you're motivated to do kendo because most people with the same motivation of you quit.

Of course we can stereotype you when the stereotype has held true in 99.9999999% of the instance.

And everyone always think's they're going to be that .00000001%

[Shiro]

Please do not take me wrong, last poster, but I seem to be stereotyped here as some person who thinks all the information of Kendo can be obtained by home trials......
highly incorrect. I do oneday intend to join a dojo, probably within the next year, but for now I want to get some foundation and practice before actually joining. I already know of the basic stance of chudan, I would like to know continuations of such form, anything that gives simple instructions, such as this,
jodan-no-kamae
A stance where the shinai is held above one’s head. The stance where the shinai is held with boh hands and the right foot is forward is called morote-migi-jodan-no-kamae (or migi-jodan-no-kamae), and the stance where the shinai is held with both hands and the left foor is forward is called morote-hidari-jodan-no-kamae. It is an offensive stance.

Form guides or definitions like this. I just want practice, I don't expect to become a master of kendo at my own home with no sensai...


You can't get a good foundation outside a dojo! That's what people've been trying to tell you here. I'm not saying this to pull you down even further but it simply is the truth..... I am sure you're picking up bad habits the way you do it now. It'll be more difficult to learn proper kendo like that.
If you really want to do something to prepare, simply get in shape. You won't do anything wrong like that.

[Shiro]

1)No, I got the name for a research paper I did on "Bushido" way back in the 9th grade which tied in with Bakamatsu. I was not a "Kenshin fan" till probably last year. Nor do I want "fantasy swordsmen".
2) I was hoping to find an easier way to learn some "techniques" in my own home. Obviously you people who even take kendo don't realize their are form guides........You cannot learn the complete way without going to a dojo.....
2)I don't eat much at all.......
3)Thanks for the down right rude comments. Obviously this forum is not what I thought it would be. I do not plan to be be pampered or baby talked to, but making such rude comments, I thought Kendo was about teaching respect. I was foolish to come here, when people can't even master the main foundation of kendo.

1) First of all, it's BakUmatsu, not BakAmatsu......

2) As I said before, it's wrong, the only things you'll really learn are bad habits.

2) I am not giving any comment on your physical condition, because it would be rude and lame, but you should learn to count ;).

3) Read the "Quick Draw" post and the threads started by Kenshin Himura ( http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/member.php?u=1638 ) and you'll see why we are a bit touchy about this...... :D.

One of the pillars of kendo is respect indeed...... but I don't think you've really been disrespected in this forum........ (except by Yowai's post maybe, but he's like that, get used to it....... :) ).
YOU should have respect towards the Art you're intrested in and you shouldn't be giving us bs like "I felt as if I have had some inate knowledge on using a katana"...... you DON'T, no one does and imho it's very direspectful to say you have. Everyone starts as a newbie and it's only after hard practice that you start to grasp some principles of Kendo.
You've won fights against kendoka's..... who says that? was there at least one shinpan to judge if the strikes were valid? I think not......

It is also direspectful to say you can learn something about kendo on your own, that's not true at all. And don't even think about replying that Miyamoto Musashi learned the way of the sword on its own!!! :p

You're welcome on this forum to ask information and read all what's in it, but forget about learning even the smallest thing about kendo without a sensei....

And read Kaoru's posts! :)

[Cypher]

Don't presume to tell US that we can't 'master the main foundation of kendo' when you haven't even had a LESSON.And none of us claim to have 'mastered' anything...the fact that you throw around such words carelessly proves that you know very, very little.

[Musha]

Gyaku chudan is an acceptable kamae, and I have talked to several sensei who had no problem teaching it. I haven't seen it used, but there is no rule against it.

Check my third post here. Some friendly people said I was stupid but I know this is right:
http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2347

Gyakuchuudan is not a Kamae. As I see it a Kamae is some thing you do right after Sonkyo or after you come to the middle after Ippon. Gyakuchuudan is a part of Seme where you move your shinai under your opponents so pointing to his or her Kote. Your partner will think you are going to hit Kote so act and you take that suki and get a point...

One more thing,

You should not try and do Joudan in normal kendo. Kendo has only one Kamae that is Chuudan and Joudan is as different as Nito kendo..

[Anjin-san]

I have always had a fascination with Japanese culture, namely martial arts. I took Tae Kwan Do...
Can I just clarify something, isn't TKD Korean?

I am somewhat overweight
Don't skip breakfast, and eat smaller portions generally, do cardio 3 times a week. I was a lot fatter when I started Kendo, losing a bit of weight makes quite a big difference to the rate at which you improve.

<rei>

[Kendo ISB]

Even though I am relatively new to this forum, I think I would have my say in this....
Kawakami Gensai- it is good that you have an interest for kendo, but practicing it is far more harder and grueling within a dojo. It is respectable that you try to learn it at home.....but one of my newer sensei (Who has participated in World championships for Canda O_O.) says practicing on your own when you have not reached a "dan" level is equivalent to masturbation. (I'm not saying this to be rude, it is his quote) Because mainly practicing by yourself is only good for YOU. I have practiced by myself, and gone to my dojo, only to be criticized by my sensei.
If a person wants to join kendo, you need to keep up practice, and that means almost a lifetime of dedication. Many people may think "Its all about swordfighting and beating up your opponent." But on a deeper level, it's kinda the "training of the spirit." Do not be angry at the members of this forum, they are expirienced with people that TALK like you. So for them it's almost a natural reaction.
And heres another quote that i thought was very important to all kendoists.
"Remember, the best samurai never has to draw his sword."

[GMason]

Musha/Eric,

To say "Gyakuchuudan is not a Kamae." is very short sighted, and to be perfectly honest in my opinion wrong. I have seen it maybe once, whilst for Kendo it maybe frowned upon, in maybe it may be perfectly acceptable with in a Koryu art ....

For example... in Shinto Ryu Kenjutsu.... they use many Kamae which most people who have only been exposed to Kendo would consider wrong...... Migi Hasso for example, where your right foot is forward and the bokuto is on the left side of your face. When I first started practicing these kata about three years ago. I was certain it was not right and didn't feel right but.... realised/was told, all said and done, when Kenjutsu was being developed each ryu ha has a different take on a situation. So therefore had different ways of getting round the problem which resulted in some unusual kamae.

Also to say Kendo has only one Kamae, I think you would find Dave Bell from the GB team would disagree (Jodan Fencer). Sorry to pick on your post....

With regards to the original post.... We currently have alot of people joining Kendo who are a little miss guided (Trying to be polite), but as long at they learn that their initial perseption of Kendo is wrong and kendo has alot more to offer than swinging a sword about and cutting people in half. It can only be good for Kendo as a whole. But this has been discussed loads in other threads so I will shut up.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Gyakuchuudan is not a Kamae. As I see it a Kamae is some thing you do right after Sonkyo or after you come to the middle after Ippon. Gyakuchuudan is a part of Seme where you move your shinai under your opponents so pointing to his or her Kote. Your partner will think you are going to hit Kote so act and you take that suki and get a point...
A kamae is any position that you take to fight from. I have no clue where you get "gyakuchudan is a part of seme" from. Seme isn't any one thing or movement. Gyaku chudan means reverse middle posture, it would be chudan with your left foot forward and your hands reversed from the normal way. It is a valid kamae (position) and is legal under the rules of kendo.

You should not try and do Joudan in normal kendo. Kendo has only one Kamae that is Chuudan and Joudan is as different as Nito kendo..
Kendo has 5 main kamae, which are all demonstrated in the kata. You could do any of them reversed (gyaku). Of the 5 only waki-gamae is not useful with shinai. You will see all of the other 4 used, although of course the most common is chudan and the second most common is jodan. Even people who don't fight from jodan will use it occasionally if they ever attack katate-men (single-handed men). Gedan (low position) is used occasionally as a sort of sucker move, I haven't seen anyone habitually fight from there. Hasso (side position) is often used to transition from chudan to jodan when the distance is a little close.

[Neil Gendzwill]

2) I was hoping to find an easier way to learn some "techniques" in my own home. Obviously you people who even take kendo don't realize their are form guides........You cannot learn the complete way without going to a dojo.....
You can't learn any of it without going to a dojo. That's what everyone is trying to tell you.
2)I don't eat much at all.......
You may be surprised. Try keeping track, a useful site is www.fitday.com, which lets you track what you eat and how much you exercise.
3)Thanks for the down right rude comments.
Well, after we see dozens of posts from people like you we get kind of tired of it. You are not unique. These posts all go along the lines of:
a) I'm practising at home, and I'm pretty good already if I do say so myself
b) Please point me to some online stuff so I can continue to delude myself at home.
c) Only tell me what I want to hear, please.
d) Oh and by the way I didn't bother to do the most elementary of searches on the tens of thousands of posts already here, otherwise I would have seen this same conversation repeated over and over again with the politeness level gradually slipping downward.

[Hai_hai]

...2)I don't eat much at all....

Wow, I guess the pizza, bacon, and hamburgers walked into your mouth while you were sleeping. I hate when that happens.

[Hai_hai]

...I am very use to the katana now, even for a long time I felt as if I have had some inate knowledge on using a katana....

Mina-san.

Tyler ni, rei...

[Hattori Hanzo]

If you are overweight here is my advise, do some cardio and stop twirling the sword, work on your arm strength, and work on strengthening your calves. I have been taking Kendo in a dojo for about three months now, and guess what? I still have bad habits my sensei points out.

[Hattori Hanzo]

Luck favors the weak, if you go to a dojo and develope skills you won't need it. :D

[Musha]

To say "Gyakuchuudan is not a Kamae." is very short sighted, and to be perfectly honest in my opinion wrong. I have seen it maybe once, whilst for Kendo it maybe frowned upon, in maybe it may be perfectly acceptable with in a Koryu art ....

Sorry my mistake, I mean Ura chudan. Check out my transition from a book I have been using. It shows the three types of physical Seme.

http://community.webshots.com/album/118067440sOWBeh

[Kawakami Gensai]

Thank you for the advice people, keep it coming. As for concerns,
1).....The only "Fattening" thing I eat are things such as pizza and french fries..... even that is rare. I really watch sweet things such as "chocolate" I may only have once a week. If anything it's probably what I drink (soda) that does the worst to my health. I eat a lot of meat, but believe it or not, that's not all that bad as long as you don't eat a buttered up baked potato with it.
2) I have started excercising, for my footwork (do not be brash....) I use Dance Dance Revolution (A GAME CAN'T IMPROVE YOUR KENDO !!! !!11 ) before anyone says that, no, I use it to get a good foot workout. Dancing does require a lot of energy......Last time I measured playing 3 songs on Heavy was registering to burn around 400 calories.....think about that. I Also do a few squats, push ups and sit ups.
3)As for "the katana" no, I know the difference between a thing such as a katana and shinai. One is meant to kill and the other well, it could be used to kill, then again basically everything can, but moreso is a sporting weapon(which it is). I do not expect to learn kendo so that I can be a "katana" master. In reference of "the blade" I mean anything of the like, including a shinai. My Katana is not a decoration piece, it was actually a souvenir my friend generously gave to me. It is definitely not a toy.....and I know this. I don't go out and practice using it on things. I have practiced "Iai" and "nuki" a few times and parry and thrusting, but that's about it. I used "comfortable" not to show that I think I am some master of the katana, but the fact the weapon does not feel as foreign in my hands as others, and I am rather use to handling it carefully and not like a unexperienced trainee.
4)Yes, it's Bakumatsu (people do have spell errors...I don't keep the Boshin war in the back of mind 24/7...)
5) Yes, Tae Kwan Do is "Korean", I made the mistake of stereotyping it as Japanese (Even when I first joined), it also means (at my school at least) "strength of the Tiger". I guess I should say "Asian" culture, but moreso it's Japan than the rest that influences me.
6)I never said I'm "pretty good", I know nothing. However, I think I am an adequate opponent even without taking kendo. I just showed an example of what I wanted, what part do you miss? Form guides, if I can find some, I think they exist. Some of us can learn by reading instead of a physical method, even my "reference" for my user name learned his style from reading.....and what do you know, he was one of the top three hitokiri of the boshin war and he didn't belong to a dojo....I could be really sarcastic and respond by rude comments as to why somebody of his stature had no training and became a professional assassin just by reading, wait...I did. Sorry. and fighting just doesn't show up in history as always having some guide for everybody, they were invented without one -_-;
7)practice makes perfect........if you just want to train at a dojo with the help of a sensai all the time, whatever floats your boat. I do plan to go to a dojo, I just wish to learn some more foundations of what it is formed on. The posts that people such as GMason and Musha are making are giving me the info I want.......so thanks.

[mingshi]

http://community.webshots.com/album/118067440sOWBeh
I have this book... and WHAT ARE YOU READING?!?

Hey... Omote/ Ura should mean outside/inside, not front and rear. In the book Hide says, from Chudan, you can either seme from the outside, or the inside... :tired:

[Neil Gendzwill]

Regarding your diet - if you eat more calories than you burn, you gain weight. If you eat less than you burn, you lose weight. If you're gaining weight and you think you don't eat much or that your activities are compensating for what you eat, you're deluding yourself. The most important thing is diet. You can easily eat 2000 calories more than you require, but to burn that much off you'd have to run about 15 miles. If you're serious, check out www.fitday.com. Be honest with the amounts and you may be surprised to find the results.

If you're a big soda drinker, switch to diet. A 12 oz can of Coke is 160 calories. It's not uncommon for sodaholics to drink 3 a day, which would be 3360 calories/week - that's almost a pound (every 3500 calories extra you take in is a pound gained).

[Kaoru]

Hi Kawakami-san,

Ok...

GET THIS STRAIGHT PLEASE:

That "game" you dance on is NOT how you learn footwork. Footwork is NOT dancing. It is not even REMOTELY like dancing. Do you understand? NO, Dance Dance Revolution will NOT improve anything except let you have fun, which is useless. IF you were in a real dojo, you'd know this.

GO TO A DOJO. You CANNOT learn at home, period.

There is NO such thing as a "Forms Book" IF you actually set foot in a dojo, you'd know this. We don't even refer to anything as "forms." This isn't TKD.

People like you REALLY try my patience, and I have LOTS of patience.

YES, your sword IS a decoration piece. A real sword costs upwards the 300 dollar mark and above. I seriously doubt your friend would BUY you a sword that expensive and GIVE it to you. People like you do not know the difference between a real practice sword and a wallhanger.

Not like an inexperienced trainee?? YOU ARE an inexperienced trainee. You really know nothing about using a sword. Just because you READ it, does NOT mean you KNOW anything. And it definately means you don't know what the heck you are doing.

"Iai" is the ART, not a technique. Iai, called Iaido or Iaijutsu, is the art of drawing and cutting in one draw. "Nukitsuke" is unsheathing the blade to cut, and "noto" is the resheathing of the blade. You should NOT be trying this without proper training FROM A SENSEI.

Kawakami did NOT teach himself, that I know for sure. ALL Samurai were given proper instruction in using a sword. NOTE: I said SAMURAI. Peasants were not allowed to own swords. Any swordwork learned by a peasant was learned on their own, and they didn't get very far in learning as a result. They learned just enough to protect themselves. Kawakami was a SAMURAI. Understand?

You are only fooling yourself into believing you are an adequate opponent. You'd be beaten in less than a second, if you tried sparring with a trained Kenshi. Oh, and did I mention that in Kendo, it will take 3-6 months before you are even allowed to do that?? THAT is because your basics MUST be VERY good. ONLY a sensei will be able to tell you if they are or not.

Trust me when I say that once you walk into a dojo, you will find you know absolutely nothing. It is arrogant and an insult to think you are good or even adequate, when all of us work hard IN A DOJO and learn from our sensei. Trust me when I tell you that you will be nit-picked over to fix any very bad habits you will certainly have and you will have to unlearn any odd things you have been doing. That is a FACT. It is a PAIN to have to relearn it all. It is far better to start in a dojo FIRST and never have to worry about relearning everything.

Oh, and your sword will not be used in Kendo, because we don't use swords.

Now. Having told you all this. IF you REALLY and TRUTHFULLY(It is not honorable to lie, especially if you ever want to do Kendo. A sensei won't tolerate that.) want to learn Kendo, tell us where you are, and we can HELP you find a dojo. If you are not serious and NEVER intend to really train in a dojo, please stop posting now. It will be useless for you.

I am really really sorry for being so frusteratred, but you don't seem to understand anything anyone is trying to tell you.

I am trying to HELP you and you should listen to what I and others here, have to say. There are many sensei on this board who will agree.

Oh, and stop using that sword. It is for your own safety.

So, please listen and stop messing around.

Kaoru

[Musha]

I don't know why people are talking about weight now, isn't there another forum on MSN or Yahoo for that? :).

mingshi, This book seems very popular in Japan, I think the pictuers are great :D. Has any one ever read Ozawa's Kendo the definitive guide the scetches and every thing in that book is awfull. It is only good for the Kata at the end..

I have this book... and WHAT ARE YOU READING?!?

I'm reading Inoue's Kendo Joutatsu book you?

Hey... Omote/ Ura should mean outside/inside, not front and rear. In the book Hide says, from Chudan, you can either seme from the outside, or the inside...

Um I always learned that Omete is Front and Ura is rear and seems to make sense when ever I hear or see it. Omete guchi (Front door) Uraguchi (Back door). And what do you think front and rear is then? Soto/Uchi? I don't want to argue about Japanese again so I'm not commenting on this furthered. You can see by the photo it just means left and right of his or her shinai.

[Musha]

Carrying on from that post I want to say about training at home. I like to train at home doing Suburi even Nito Subori and Subori with Bokken, Nito bokken. Doing Hiraki ashi Suburi Kirikaeshi Kote men in succession. But if you ever wanted to try some thing like I am reading about now Harai kote it is almost impossible to practice..

That is the reason you need to go to a Dojyo :wink:.

[mingshi]

Some of us can learn by reading instead of a physical method, even my "reference" for my user name learned his style from reading.....and what do you know, he was one of the top three hitokiri of the boshin war and he didn't belong to a dojo....I could be really sarcastic and respond by rude comments as to why somebody of his stature had no training and became a professional assassin just by reading, wait...I did. Sorry. and fighting just doesn't show up in history as always having some guide for everybody, they were invented without one...
Okay I spent some dinner time doing reading on Kawakami Gensai.

What made him famous was that he assasinated Sakuma Shouzan, who was the most important figure in assisting the development of Yokohama (by opening the trading port there). This encouraged the cultural exchange of Japan to the World by importing advance technology from the West.

Apparently Kawakami Gensai sucked at kendo when he was at school. He said, "kenjutsu using shinai is just a game".

i.e. he did train in a dojo.

Samurai wannabe... JUST WHAT ARE YOU ALL READING?? Can't you all just pick up a history book instead of a Manga that is actually based on Xmen??

[Shazzanzzz]

If you are learning kendo to learn how to street fight, I would suggest just forget about kendo. To practice kendo for fun, exercise, and to better yourself is the goals you should have in kendo, not so you can beat some kid on the street with a stick (or a katana). Not talk about how wrong that is, if he has a gun, you die anyways, so, you don't need to know how to kill people with a katana.

People like the post starter annoy me a lot sometimes, because those kind of people come around to my club all the time, and somehow look down upon us because they think kendo is too "sporty" and isn't real enough for street fighting, and somehow too easy. These people are usually those who can't even hold chudan right, ever.

[mingshi]

Omete guchi (Front door) Uraguchi (Back door). And what do you think front and rear is then? Soto/Uchi? I don't want to argue about Japanese again so I'm not commenting on this furthered. You can see by the photo it just means left and right of his or her shinai.
Omote/Ura-guchi should be "public/private door".
The same sense is used in some koryu waza Omote/Ura waza -the latter more advance.

It's not just left and right on the photo, it is inside and outside...
Where did you learn that from? Ask your KENDO Sensei for reference... :tired:

[Neil Gendzwill]

Where did you learn that from? Ask your KENDO Sensei for reference... :tired:
My kendo sensei also translates omote and ura as front and back, as do several other sensei I've talked to. Ura is also used to mean "back" in judo terminology, as in ura-nage, which is a counter throw where you basically pick the other guy up bodily and bridge back, chucking him backwards over your shoulder.

Musha is still strangely confused on what a kamae is and what seme is though.

Our original poster is clearly just confused.

[Musha]

:confused2

[Kirin]

Kawakami Gensai

Read this again!!!!!!!!!

Hi Kawakami-san,

Ok...

GET THIS STRAIGHT PLEASE:

That "game" you dance on is NOT how you learn footwork. Footwork is NOT dancing. It is not even REMOTELY like dancing. Do you understand? NO, Dance Dance Revolution will NOT improve anything except let you have fun, which is useless. IF you were in a real dojo, you'd know this.

GO TO A DOJO. You CANNOT learn at home, period.

There is NO such thing as a "Forms Book" IF you actually set foot in a dojo, you'd know this. We don't even refer to anything as "forms." This isn't TKD.

People like you REALLY try my patience, and I have LOTS of patience.

YES, your sword IS a decoration piece. A real sword costs upwards the 300 dollar mark and above. I seriously doubt your friend would BUY you a sword that expensive and GIVE it to you. People like you do not know the difference between a real practice sword and a wallhanger.

Not like an inexperienced trainee?? YOU ARE an inexperienced trainee. You really know nothing about using a sword. Just because you READ it, does NOT mean you KNOW anything. And it definately means you don't know what the heck you are doing.

"Iai" is the ART, not a technique. Iai, called Iaido or Iaijutsu, is the art of drawing and cutting in one draw. "Nukitsuke" is unsheathing the blade to cut, and "noto" is the resheathing of the blade. You should NOT be trying this without proper training FROM A SENSEI.

Kawakami did NOT teach himself, that I know for sure. ALL Samurai were given proper instruction in using a sword. NOTE: I said SAMURAI. Peasants were not allowed to own swords. Any swordwork learned by a peasant was learned on their own, and they didn't get very far in learning as a result. They learned just enough to protect themselves. Kawakami was a SAMURAI. Understand?

You are only fooling yourself into believing you are an adequate opponent. You'd be beaten in less than a second, if you tried sparring with a trained Kenshi. Oh, and did I mention that in Kendo, it will take 3-6 months before you are even allowed to do that?? THAT is because your basics MUST be VERY good. ONLY a sensei will be able to tell you if they are or not.

Trust me when I say that once you walk into a dojo, you will find you know absolutely nothing. It is arrogant and an insult to think you are good or even adequate, when all of us work hard IN A DOJO and learn from our sensei. Trust me when I tell you that you will be nit-picked over to fix any very bad habits you will certainly have and you will have to unlearn any odd things you have been doing. That is a FACT. It is a PAIN to have to relearn it all. It is far better to start in a dojo FIRST and never have to worry about relearning everything.

Oh, and your sword will not be used in Kendo, because we don't use swords.

Now. Having told you all this. IF you REALLY and TRUTHFULLY(It is not honorable to lie, especially if you ever want to do Kendo. A sensei won't tolerate that.) want to learn Kendo, tell us where you are, and we can HELP you find a dojo. If you are not serious and NEVER intend to really train in a dojo, please stop posting now. It will be useless for you.

I am really really sorry for being so frusteratred, but you don't seem to understand anything anyone is trying to tell you.

I am trying to HELP you and you should listen to what I and others here, have to say. There are many sensei on this board who will agree.

Oh, and stop using that sword. It is for your own safety.

So, please listen and stop messing around.

Kaoru

Well said Kaoru !
I totally agree with you. Too bad he just dont get it *sigh*
Every once in a while, we get student like Kawakami Gensai.
As bare naked beginner, wanting to use shinken and go buys one at gun & knife show. (most likely paying $1 - 3k for WW2 casted iron, or suvenior piece.... believing 500yrs old sword lol)
These ignorant students disappear very fast.
Those are the ppl who end up attending Renaissance Fair or Anime Fest dressed like ninja or something & swinging shinken .... *sigh*

Originally Posted by Kawakami Gensai
3)As for "the katana" no, I know the difference between a thing such as a katana and shinai. One is meant to kill and the other well, it could be used to kill, then again basically everything can, but moreso is a sporting weapon(which it is). I do not expect to learn kendo so that I can be a "katana" master. In reference of "the blade" I mean anything of the like, including a shinai. My Katana is not a decoration piece, it was actually a souvenir my friend generously gave to me. It is definitely not a toy.....and I know this. I don't go out and practice using it on things. I have practiced "Iai" and "nuki" a few times and parry and thrusting, but that's about it. I used "comfortable" not to show that I think I am some master of the katana, but the fact the weapon does not feel as foreign in my hands as others, and I am rather use to handling it carefully and not like a unexperienced trainee.

6)I never said I'm "pretty good", I know nothing. However, I think I am an adequate opponent even without taking kendo. I just showed an example of what I wanted, what part do you miss? Form guides, if I can find some, I think they exist. Some of us can learn by reading instead of a physical method, even my "reference" for my user name learned his style from reading.....and what do you know, he was one of the top three hitokiri of the boshin war and he didn't belong to a dojo....I could be really sarcastic and respond by rude comments as to why somebody of his stature had no training and became a professional assassin just by reading, wait...I did. Sorry. and fighting just doesn't show up in history as always having some guide for everybody, they were invented without one -_-;

Kawakami, this quote just make me shrug.......
You are the unexperienced trainee..... well not even trainee, since you never had training.

I dont care about your diet, exercise, nor spelling, but your self-centered, head (knowledge) heavy attitude toward kendo or/and katana is WRONG!

[Kirin]

I'm reading Inoue's Kendo Joutatsu book you?

Great! Probably the best book around.
Very practical, and not so heavy as Ozawa's
(Hide sensei is still young and not hard head like many of old 8dan senseis).... too bad it is only published in japanese
...but he is planning to make educational kendo DVD soon.
You may already know this but there is questionnaire at Hide Inoue's homepage. http://www.mt-tm.com/kendo/index_e.html

[Hattori Hanzo]

Me thinks Kaoru is indanger of bursting a Blood Vessel.

[Shiro]

2) I have started excercising, for my footwork (do not be brash....) I use Dance Dance Revolution (A GAME CAN'T IMPROVE YOUR KENDO !!! !!11 ) before anyone says that, no, I use it to get a good foot workout. Dancing does require a lot of energy......Last time I measured playing 3 songs on Heavy was registering to burn around 400 calories.....think about that. I Also do a few squats, push ups and sit ups.

Why do you even mention this? Aren't some people here already making enough fun of you? .....


I used "comfortable" not to show that I think I am some master of the katana, but the fact the weapon does not feel as foreign in my hands as others, and I am rather use to handling it carefully and not like a unexperienced trainee..

Ok, then tell me what the name of the proper way to hold a katana is :p
You ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE to an unexperienced trainee, a trainee would seek advice and ask his senpai, you just think you can achieve something on your own......


4)Yes, it's Bakumatsu (people do have spell errors...I don't keep the Boshin war in the back of mind 24/7...)

I thought you made a paper about it...... :p so knowing the way it's written isn't too much......


6)I never said I'm "pretty good", I know nothing. However, I think I am an adequate opponent even without taking kendo. I just showed an example of what I wanted, what part do you miss? Form guides, if I can find some, I think they exist. Some of us can learn by reading instead of a physical method, even my "reference" for my user name learned his style from reading.....and what do you know, he was one of the top three hitokiri of the boshin war and he didn't belong to a dojo....I could be really sarcastic and respond by rude comments as to why somebody of his stature had no training and became a professional assassin just by reading, wait...I did. Sorry. and fighting just doesn't show up in history as always having some guide for everybody, they were invented without one -_-;


Now, how ignorant are you to think you are even adequate..... you've had no training whatsoever! I don't say I'm better than you'll ever be, I just say you should get your lazy *ass to a dojo!!!
Learn by reading..... you learn history by reading, not kendo.... you learn kendo by countless suburi, countless uchikomi geiko, countless men kirikaeshi and so on..... NOT by picking up a book.


7)practice makes perfect........if you just want to train at a dojo with the help of a sensai all the time, whatever floats your boat. I do plan to go to a dojo, I just wish to learn some more foundations of what it is formed on.

Practice UNDER SUPERVISION OF A SENSEI makes perfect, it isn't even recommended to practice on your own.
And how many times do we have to tell you that you can't get proper foundations outside of a dojo?!?!!!
You will cultivate bad habits that you will never loose if you go on like that.

[Shiro]

Me thinks Kaoru is indanger of bursting a Blood Vessel.

Why don't we all chip in a couple of bucks to offer Kaoru a holiday? :D

She has produced more than her share of efforts to talk some sense into people like Kenshin Himura and Kawakami 'Bakamatsu' Gensai....... :D

No, really, I have a lot of respect for your patience, Kaoru :).

[JSchmidt]

"Kendo has only one Kamae"

I'm curious..do you behave the same way in the dojo?..refuting everything people with more experience than you says, just because you (mis)read something in a book?

Jakob

[Musha]

I don't know about Other Dojyo but people in my Dojyo people don't usually shout oscine things at each other and call new comers stupid.

I'm saying that Kendo only has one Kamae because I have never seen any one use any of the other Kamae on a regular basis. I have seen Gmason and some one else at my Dojyo doing Joudan from time to time. But not though the hole keiko.
I have heard people on this forum say thing like "I asked my sensei to teach me Joudan" and every thing I have read or seen seems to imply that

Kendo
Jyoudan
Unusual Kamae
Nito

are different things.... You either do Chudan or ask the judges if you can do Joudan or Nito. I did not think people just did what they feel.

[JSchmidt]

Jodan is kendo
Chudan is kendo
Nito is kendo
etc.

Just because they are not common, does not mean that they aren't kendo.

Oh and I never ask the judges if I can do jodan or not.

[Kendo ISB]

to mr. Kawakami Gensai...
I will be very simple about this...

A book cannot teach you everything, u can get tips from a book, but firsthand exp u cannot get from a book...
I am still relatively new to this site... and I understand ..but i am happy enough with myself with kendo to say this.
I dont care whether you have a good "sword feel". Anyone can say that. I dont care about whether you are good in a real fight. Its as simple as this. When you EVER do go to a dojo, (or never) its going to be this simple. Your sensei won't care about anything you say.
He'll just say one thing. "show me your men/swing." something like that.
AND BELIEVE ME WHEN I SAY THIS. HE WILL TELL YOU YOUR WRONG. NO MAN OR WOMAN HAS EVER PICKED UP A SHINAI FOR THE FIRST TIME AND SWUNG PERFECTLY FOR A TEACHER. NEVER. EVER.
I understand Kendo is about humbleness and etiquite. Please excuse me for my rantings. Gomen.

[Hattori Hanzo]

Why don't we all chip in a couple of bucks to offer Kaoru a holiday? :D
Hehe I am down, consider me in for 10 bucks and a bottle of Nigori :D

[litige]

I don't know about Other Dojyo but people in my Dojyo people don't usually shout oscine things at each other and call new comers stupid.

I'm saying that Kendo only has one Kamae because I have never seen any one use any of the other Kamae on a regular basis. I have seen Gmason and some one else at my Dojyo doing Joudan from time to time. But not though the hole keiko.
I have heard people on this forum say thing like "I asked my sensei to teach me Joudan" and every thing I have read or seen seems to imply that

Kendo
Jyoudan
Unusual Kamae
Nito

are different things.... You either do Chudan or ask the judges if you can do Joudan or Nito. I did not think people just did what they feel.

Hey Musha, stop talking bull-shit, from experience, I can say its bad, and you only look stupid. You don't know shit and always talk. Ex:Every posts you made. by the way, its dojo and jodan, not dojyo and jyoudan.

[Caleb]

Like what Marsten sensei told us in the south-west seminar this fall-

Practice doesn't make perfect, Perfect practice makes perfect.

If you think about it, it aplies to the beginner thats "suited for kendo by reading (short and sweet)" because you wont know if you are doing something wrong. Just get physically ready, and that will be enough basis for you to start. Just think, your getting ahead of the beginners already by learning that its not good to say your adapt at using the shinken without training. You might have natural tallent-yes, but nothing is substitute for a dojo... Nothing

[litige]

...I did not think people just did what they feel.

Actually, people that do jodan or nito, do it because they felt it, there is no other reason.

[Old Warrior]

"Actually, people that do jodan or nito, do it because they felt it, there is no other reason"

I do Nito because Master Seong said "You will learn, I teach". And you know, he has taught me well and I am improving - and enjoying the journey immensely.

[litige]

"Actually, people that do jodan or nito, do it because they felt it, there is no other reason"

I do Nito because Master Seong said "You will learn, I teach". And you know, he has taught me well and I am improving - and enjoying the journey immensely.

Do you feel your nito, or are you more confortable in chudan?

[Old Warrior]

"Do you feel your nito, or are you more confortable in chudan?"

After 14 months of doing only Nito, except for bon (kata) practice, it feels as natural as walking. The only time I use chudan is when I am trying to help a junior student. I would say that the level of my bouting is somewhat beyond the level of others with my experience, because most people are not used to dealing with a Nito player. I am even a bit more difficult to deal with because I hold the daito in my right hand. So even those who are used to Nito students are a bit confused at first. Also, I started with almost 30 years of karate and European fencing experience so I have a reasonably good sense of distance and timing and close quarters combat. It does help a lot.

[watanabe2k]

I will start off by saying I am new to practicing Kendo, I have only been going at it for 2 and a half weeks (3 weeks this wednesday), at first I started reading this man's thread and thinking I was in the same group as him (5'10" 190 lbs), but I realize is that he doesn't seem to understand the idea behind martial arts in general. He has this typical I'm gonna kick you butt attitude.

3 dances of DDR loses 400 calories? - I think that's bull, I run 6 miles in 50:30 and that only burns like 900 calories, don't even tell me ddr is gonna get you in better shape than running. The fact that you do ddr instead of real trainning like running is a testament to the fact that you are lazy.

I think the phrase that best describes this man is "baka wa shinde mo, naoranai"

also to all of you people who are serious about Kendo, Kore kara yoroshiku onegaishimasu!

[N2k]

OK, you don't eat candy, chocolates, too little pizza and or fries, but you eat lotsa of meat...........I just hope your hair isn't falling off from malnutrition, Do you have any idea of how many toxins meat has????, that's why you are fat, you are not eating properly, combine some veggies and fruit, stick some chicken and fish there somewhere...

Dance Dance Revolution?, Yes it's true it boosts up your bisometric reactions and agility, it also helps to improve stamina.....but.....YOU CAN'T EXPECT TO LEARN KENDO FOOTWORK IN IT!!!!!.....ahem......DDR is good for raquetball though, but this ain't the forum to discuss that...

I can't belive you have a dojo near and you don't go, I don't care if my definition of near is 1-5 miles, I'll walk it if I had too!. There are no dojos here in Juarez, Mexico, so we wait for seminars and teachers from Mexico City that come from the Mexican Kendo Association and practice every chance I get the tips and techniques they teach, nevertheless, no sensei no total learning nor mastering.

OK, if you are such a fan of Asian culture, learn to write it's words properly at least, it's sensei not sensai, you made the mistake twice, and if it was a typo, try to lower some of that finger fat too.

From my point of view, you are just an anime/manga geek who wants to learn Kendo as a show off, I have nothing against anime/manga, in fact I view/read a little myself, but you must understand that to learn the way of the sword means dedication, passion and lots of other values, though modern civilization, in my point of view, reduced the sword from a way of life to a sport, understand that's something you do for fun and that you really feel that it's the martial art for you, I didn't mean to be harsh, but please consider my words and don't disrespect this wonderful art.

[PediGree]

....no offense, but taekwondo doesn't exist purple or brown belt dummy, is white, yellow, green, blue, red, black. u surelly can't lie dude, oh yea....i know all this cuz i'm a blue belt.

[itachi]

6)I never said I'm "pretty good", I know nothing. However, I think I am an adequate opponent even without taking kendo. I just showed an example of what I wanted, what part do you miss? Form guides, if I can find some, I think they exist. Some of us can learn by reading instead of a physical method, even my "reference" for my user name learned his style from reading.....and what do you know, he was one of the top three hitokiri of the boshin war and he didn't belong to a dojo....I could be really sarcastic and respond by rude comments as to why somebody of his stature had no training and became a professional assassin just by reading, wait...I did. Sorry. and fighting just doesn't show up in history as always having some guide for everybody, they were invented without one -_-;

you're very cocky to say that you're adequate. please you've never even been to a dojo, and had a sensei, how would you know? just because you beat your friends who don't work hard doesn't mean you should feel proud.i can guarantee you that you will NOT beat anyone from my dojo(not that they are invincible, but they sure won't be beaten by a person who thinks they are lucky and fated -_-"). you have no idea what it feels like to wear a bogu. sure you got stance. but can you play kendo. do you know how to perform a thrust? you read about it, but do you know how to perform it? i'm sure a sensei wouldnt mind teaching a begginner, since there will be other beginners. so im guessing you wan't to be an all-star in your class just because you think a couple of internet information will make you invincible. you seem very stubborn and already made up your mind about not going to a dojo, so i will not waste time. by the way, kendo doesn't come cheap, its expensive as hell, don't take the easy way out because there really isn't any. there's a quote i saw the other day "i read, i remember. i do, i understand." it sure is a good quote. which means you have to go to a dojo, and stop being cocky.

ps. put your wallhanger back on the wall. yes im bothered by this thread, because i believe that my hardwork and training will not be conquered by internet or books.

[Wout]

hmmm so you have a natural feel of the sword hey. Is your katana a sharp one. If you really think you're a natural feel he. Ok try putting your sword back very fast equally fast as the iaidokas in the movie about iaido, if you feel you are equall to the good iaidoists.

(I give him two days b4 he stabs himself in the hand) I don't have as much patience as Kauru I guess

Anyone can claim he is good with a sword if he's never been taken to the test, you know when I first picked up a shinai I thought what can be hard about moving it fast, it's nearly weigthless, but now it sometimes feels the shinai is too heavy to do certain things with it (esp in jigeiko, when you sometimes can't move your shinai fast enough, I sometimes wished it was weigthless). What I'm trying too say is, a katana can be easy to swing if you don't have to do it fast and accurate, but then you might just swing a baseballbat and beliving you have a natural feeling for it if noone threw a ball at high speed and put you to the test.
Point is most things look easy if you never tried to do them right yourself.


And musha every kamai is kendo and is allowed in shiai (you can even hold your sword with only one hand on the tsuka next to your body if you please, it won't help you though), but note that some kamai have proven their usefullness and allow you to do things with them (chudan is excellent cuz it allows you to attack and the defense is excellent if you can hold the center) I don't know about the other kamai's but they all have their advantages.

[-Miburo-]

Only going to a dojo you will learn correctly and its a bad idea to learn it yourself. And i think that the important thing is that you must have discipline and commitment to kendo, regardless how good you are.

[Zehm bah deh]

Can I just clarify something, isn't TKD Korean?


Don't skip breakfast, and eat smaller portions generally, do cardio 3 times a week. I was a lot fatter when I started Kendo, losing a bit of weight makes quite a big difference to the rate at which you improve.

<rei>
this one agrees, one thing you shouldn't do that alot of people do is run, runing is great cardio but katas and drills are beter. also running puts down your flexability which in turn reduces your natural range of motion. so get some of your friends to give you a few drills to work on. that is what i did and it helped alot.

[Zehm bah deh]

Even though I am relatively new to this forum, I think I would have my say in this....
Kawakami Gensai- it is good that you have an interest for kendo, but practicing it is far more harder and grueling within a dojo. It is respectable that you try to learn it at home.....but one of my newer sensei (Who has participated in World championships for Canda O_O.) says practicing on your own when you have not reached a "dan" level is equivalent to masturbation. (I'm not saying this to be rude, it is his quote) Because mainly practicing by yourself is only good for YOU. I have practiced by myself, and gone to my dojo, only to be criticized by my sensei.
If a person wants to join kendo, you need to keep up practice, and that means almost a lifetime of dedication. Many people may think "Its all about swordfighting and beating up your opponent." But on a deeper level, it's kinda the "training of the spirit." Do not be angry at the members of this forum, they are expirienced with people that TALK like you. So for them it's almost a natural reaction.
And heres another quote that i thought was very important to all kendoists.
"Remember, the best samurai never has to draw his sword."
this is true of any killing art

[Zehm bah deh]

you're very cocky to say that you're adequate. please you've never even been to a dojo, and had a sensei, how would you know? just because you beat your friends who don't work hard doesn't mean you should feel proud.i can guarantee you that you will NOT beat anyone from my dojo(not that they are invincible, but they sure won't be beaten by a person who thinks they are lucky and fated -_-"). you have no idea what it feels like to wear a bogu. sure you got stance. but can you play kendo. do you know how to perform a thrust? you read about it, but do you know how to perform it? i'm sure a sensei wouldnt mind teaching a begginner, since there will be other beginners. so im guessing you wan't to be an all-star in your class just because you think a couple of internet information will make you invincible. you seem very stubborn and already made up your mind about not going to a dojo, so i will not waste time. by the way, kendo doesn't come cheap, its expensive as hell, don't take the easy way out because there really isn't any. there's a quote i saw the other day "i read, i remember. i do, i understand." it sure is a good quote. which means you have to go to a dojo, and stop being cocky.

ps. put your wallhanger back on the wall. yes im bothered by this thread, because i believe that my hardwork and training will not be conquered by internet or books.

1) kawakami's right, hitokiri gensai lerned exclusively from books, so did the monks from shaolin, and any one of them with a dao could beat a kenjutsu master around like a rag doll.
2) i'm very disapointed with the aditude of the people on this site few people have comended kawakami on his intrest on the killing arts.
3) he never said he was invencible, he said he is doing well with what he knows, and he is comfortable holding a sword, this is not
B.S., i feel very comfortable with a broadsword but not with sai's or escrima sticks or jian.
4) he never said he wasn't going to a school he said he had to wait because the nearest school is 2 hrs. away,
5) kawakami, dont let these jerks get you down, were are you living now? i know of a few exelent killing arts teachers that like to stay off the web many of which taught me. or try looking up shaolin under master sin kwang the

[Mikeyprime]

You're not "somewhat overweight." You're fat.

You seem to be more suited to practicing imaginary samurai play than playing Kendo. If you had even a single Kendo lesson, your stupid enthusiasm will vanish.

Don't bother with Kendo and continue living your samurai fantasies.
Oh my god. I am dying of laughter...AND I CANT stop. that was so uncalled for but your blatant honesty is just killing me, hahahah!

[Zehm bah deh]

as i said before that is just wrong, we as martial artist are here to help not put people down, god help you if you ever showed up at my school

[Mikeyprime]

as i said before that is just wrong, we as martial artist are here to help not put people down, god help you if you ever showed up at my school
If you cannot laugh at things, whats the point of living? I agree with helping people and many people are too critical and go about it the wrong way. But once again, what many people dont understand is, this is a PUBLIC forum. people will post WHATEVER opinion they want, regardless if it suits your needs and views, so deal with it. Your response is just as filled with malice as those responding negatively to the initial poster so what is your saving grace? If you want to immedietly discount people for offering criticism, then you must discount those offering insight. But it is how you interperet it. For example, I have not found much of what you said as insightful.

But for you to be arrogat and say "god help you if you ever showed up at my school" shows your maturity level.

[Zehm bah deh]

i apreciate your thoughts, it is true what you say and i wish to learn from it, however you dont need to be rude if you dont want to help kawakami see his mistakes and misthoughts and learn from them then i dont want to hear you speak on this thread, i dont mean to lash out with malice and i apologise for my tone.

[Zehm bah deh]

and as to my coment a few of my friends (from my school) have been on here and have found many of the things said here disheartening. i speak for them

[Zehm bah deh]

....no offense, but taekwondo doesn't exist purple or brown belt dummy, is white, yellow, green, blue, red, black. u surelly can't lie dude, oh yea....i know all this cuz i'm a blue belt.just as a side note it is very hard to find a true tkd school many of them are just looking for the fast $$$ kawakami i promise you , if you found a real school of tkd you would never have stopped they are some of the best kickers in the world, even kung fu has trouble keeping up

[Hisham]

1) kawakami's right, hitokiri gensai lerned exclusively from books, so did the monks from shaolin, and any one of them with a dao could beat a kenjutsu master around like a rag doll.

Shaolin monks learned EXCLUSIVELY from books! No offence but you'd better check your sources, it's all about lineage when you talk about Shaolin, wudang or any other traditional martial art for that matter.
I think you went overboard when you said :
and any one of them with a dao could beat a kenjutsu master around like a rag doll.

How can you make such a claim? Are you the reincarnation of one of the ten shaolin monks?
IMHO you should try to get in touch with a real shaolin/siulam monk like Shi Yan Ming in New york and get some truth instead of spreading false information. here 's the website adress: http://www.usashaolintemple.com/ (http://www.usashaolintemple.com/)
if you don't already know it.

[Zehm bah deh]

1) plese excuse my grammar sometimes the way i say things sounds wrong, what i was trying to say was that shaolin was learned largely from books many styles and systems were lost and refound through books not to say that they had no teachers, quite the opposite the temple at fukien had some of the best sifus in china.2) that was a foolish imature remark made out of resentment. alot of kendo artists tend to say that thier art is so much beter than mine and that master mullins dont know what he is doing yada yada yada, so i tend to freek out. so excuse my 15 year old rants

[Zehm bah deh]

you should try to get in touch with a real shaolin/siulam monk like Shi Yan Ming in New york and get some truth instead of spreading false information. here 's the website adress: http://www.usashaolintemple.com/ (http://www.usashaolintemple.com/)
if you don't already know it.a small history lesson for you when the comunists took over china shaolin was banned, so the only people who knew real shaolin were people that left china earlier, later when the japanese became famous for thier MA's the chinese wanted thier title back as the best fighters, so they got a bunch of wushu guys and called em monks of shaolin. wushu is decended of shaolin, but the tequnichs are poor because alot of the application is not tought, in short modorn monks are dancers.

[Mikeyprime]

and as to my coment a few of my friends (from my school) have been on here and have found many of the things said here disheartening. i speak for them
Of course. It happens EVERYDAY. Many people have had their patience erdaicated. Im not condoning it, but sometimes all you can do it laugh.

[Zehm bah deh]

anyway im sorry for acting like an idiot

[Morino]

I am sincerely ashamed of the behavior being displayed on this thread.
The conduct being shown here is not of Kendoka, but of lowly clowns. Gi,Rei, and Meiyo have been totally disregarded of in this thread.
These three virtues are essential when it comes to cultivating our spirit for the better. Without these virtues Kendo would not even be a martial art.



Yes Kawakami was rather naive in his posts, but that does not mean you have to verbally attack him. Would your sensei approve of you doing this?
I do not think so.
You can make the excuse that this is a public message board, but this is primarily a KENDO WORLD message board. Not Big Bubba's Kendo forums, respect for everyone, especially newbies should be honored and practiced.
What kind of example are all of you setting to the new people seeking Kendo who read this thread? Barely anyone has tried to advise KG with diligence in this thread. The examples that are being left here make us look cruel and uneducated.



If you don't have anything nice/informative to say then just keep your comments to yourself.
Going out of the way to taunt someone on a message board is also known as TROLLING. I really dislike having to lecture people, but I don't want my sensei to be right on this occasion.
He has always said that the people on Kendo World Forum are very disrespectful for being Kendoka. For a while I tried to ignore this and tried to think positive about everyone here, but this thread is giving me doubts.
I hope in the future you are all able to apply what you learn in Kendo to every part of your life, at the very least verbal etiquette.

[Zehm bah deh]

agreed

also there is a diference between ignorance and foolishness

[Hisham]

a small history lesson for you when the comunists took over china shaolin was banned, for the record, you're not telling me something i don't already know:) ,be more humble when you want to teach a lesson.
so the only people who knew real shaolin were people that left china earlier You need to proove it by at least giving a link that talks about that "fact"
later when the japanese became famous for thier MA's the chinese wanted thier title back as the best fighters, so they got a bunch of wushu guys and called em monks of shaolin.[/QUOTE] Again proof is lacking .
wushu is decended of shaolin, but the tequnichs are poor because alot of the application is not tought, in short modorn monks are dancers. Where's the proof.
The abott of the Song shan temple talked about some ppl disguising as monks and making money out of that by "dancing' like you said which is old news and they're trying there best to keep the arts from being abused so again my friend don't accuse someone without proof, have you even researched the lineage of those guys? which i'm sure you didn't plus you didn't answer me about the claim that you made that monks would EXLUSIVELY learn from books.

BTW i agree as far as your intervention for Kawakami is concerned.

[CryingFreeman]

Kawakami came on this site to boast and learn more useful names for the swings of his katana which he calls techniques.

he deserved everything he got

Zem bah deh you are either ignorant or foolish with reference to true schools of martial arts when you dare to mention the name of master sin kwang the on this website. perhaps you dont know but your masters lineage is probably the most dubious in the modern martial world and the butt of many jokes the world over, the way you talk shows you have a deep misinterpretation of the martial arts.

kendo is not a killing art

How in the hell can you be so bold as to say a shaolin monk with a dao will beat the hell out of a kenjutsu master as if he were a rag doll

that statement is stupid and ignorant on so many levels that to explain the stupidity of it to anyone would be nothing short of a direct insult

your posts belie your age and maturity as do your references to Master Sin Kwang The as a teacher of true martial arts or killing arts as you like to put it

I feel its my duty to let you in on something
Shaolin-do is nothing but a major scam
for those who dont known shaolin-do is the art taught by Master Sin Kwang The ridiculous.

its no wonder you believe in people being naturally gifted with sword arts and all that. i dont blame you its not your fault

kawakami doesn't want kendo, i dont know what he wants
but it isnt kendo

[KendokaJim]

a small history lesson for you when the comunists took over china shaolin was banned, so the only people who knew real shaolin were people that left china earlier, later when the japanese became famous for thier MA's the chinese wanted thier title back as the best fighters, so they got a bunch of wushu guys and called em monks of shaolin. wushu is decended of shaolin, but the tequnichs are poor because alot of the application is not tought, in short modorn monks are dancers.
Actually I just had a discussion about this with a couple sempai of mine. I've heard, not just from them, that wing chun is more similar to Shaolin than wushu. Wushu is more fluid, like dancing, has a lot of extraneous moves. Shaolin was a much more direct style of fighting, like wing chun. Personally, while wushu is very beautiful to watch, and is respectable for it's grace, I think wing chun and consequently, Shaolin, are two very different things. Wushu was developed in Northern China, whereas Shaolin was developed in Southern China. I may have the areas reversed, but the idea is both of these arts developed in different regions, and therefore, wushu could not be descendant of Shaolin. Everybody confused?! I know I am.

[Zehm bah deh]

you are very close, wing chun actually was made out of shaolin it is a later system that incorperates the tiger-crane, mantis, snake and tai- chi. it was invented by a young woman that is believed to have trained at henon.

modern wushu was something that apeared during the comunist banning of shaolin and was hidden as dance and so many aplications were lost. fortunately there were a few masters that got out of the country before thier knowledge was forgoten. master ie chang ming for example. who fled to indonesia after killing 14 soldiers who were threatening his life.

[Zehm bah deh]

Kawakami came on this site to boast and learn more useful names for the swings of his katana which he calls techniques.

he deserved everything he got

Zem bah deh you are either ignorant or foolish with reference to true schools of martial arts when you dare to mention the name of master sin kwang the on this website. perhaps you dont know but your masters lineage is probably the most dubious in the modern martial world and the butt of many jokes the world over, the way you talk shows you have a deep misinterpretation of the martial arts.

kendo is not a killing art

How in the hell can you be so bold as to say a shaolin monk with a dao will beat the hell out of a kenjutsu master as if he were a rag doll

that statement is stupid and ignorant on so many levels that to explain the stupidity of it to anyone would be nothing short of a direct insult

your posts belie your age and maturity as do your references to Master Sin Kwang The as a teacher of true martial arts or killing arts as you like to put it

I feel its my duty to let you in on something
Shaolin-do is nothing but a major scam
for those who dont known shaolin-do is the art taught by Master Sin Kwang The ridiculous.

its no wonder you believe in people being naturally gifted with sword arts and all that. i dont blame you its not your fault

kawakami doesn't want kendo, i dont know what he wants
but it isnt kendo
1)i said before the statement about the dao was a foolish and imature remark made out of anger, i am 15 and an imiture fool who wants to learn.

2)tell me then what is a sword for if not for killing, you do not chop wood with it and you cant carve or hunt with it so if not for killing what is a sword for?

3)as for master th'e i ve heard it all and i 'm sick of dealing with you people
and i have yet to see anyone from another system beat a student of master mullins on the same level, you may doubt him as much as you want but even the modern monks have said that he has material that thier sigung's have but his is a much older form of it, also master sin is not my master , i train under master kevin mullins and sifu george maynard

4) kawakami doesnt know what he wants he has never seen kendo he is ignorant, not a fool. i was always tought to stand up for the people that everyone else despises. if you cannot understand that then you do not deserve to toutch a sword.

5) how dare you call yourself a martial artist? you are a hypocrit
and i never said people were born beter than others martial artists are not born they are made. i dare you to go to johnson city tennessee and see if you can toutch any of the sifus in the area,

[Zehm bah deh]

for the record, you're not telling me something i don't already know:) ,be more humble when you want to teach a lesson.
You need to proove it by at least giving a link that talks about that "fact"
later when the japanese became famous for thier MA's the chinese wanted thier title back as the best fighters, so they got a bunch of wushu guys and called em monks of shaolin. Again proof is lacking .
Where's the proof.
The abott of the Song shan temple talked about some ppl disguising as monks and making money out of that by "dancing' like you said which is old news and they're trying there best to keep the arts from being abused so again my friend don't accuse someone without proof, have you even researched the lineage of those guys? which i'm sure you didn't plus you didn't answer me about the claim that you made that monks would EXLUSIVELY learn from books.

BTW i agree as far as your intervention for Kawakami is concerned.[/QUOTE]


there are no links all of my data comes from books that were read in china we had to get a chinese guy to translate them, and as for the attacks on master the thry going to china and looking him up, you will find all that you need on him, even the uninted states law says that his claims to his lineage are true, he once or twice had to defend them in court.

[Zehm bah deh]

also please dont get me confused with Zehm Bah Deh in another message board, we are 2 diferent people.

[Frame]

heh, not sure if the orginal poster is even reading anymore but............. the reason i think most people got annoyed wiht the first post was the comment on how it came naturally to him etc etc...... it seemed really egotistcal for someone who basically knows nothing on it.

As a beginner (only been doing kendo for about 5 months) I wouldn't ever try to say things about how i "inately know things" i get told some things and think "oh that makes sense"

As for the book thing...................you can and can't learn from books, i have 2 books on kendo....when i first got them i looked through and thought "this isn't much on kendo" they contained alot of info that i thought wasn't really relevant...............a few months on, i'm coming back to the books and realising how good for beginners they actually and using them for things like info that would take up too much time during practices for the sensei to teach me.(Tying shinai knots etc etc and more)

quote from an anime for ya that suits what i just said "you don't know how strong people are until you become strong yourself" .................as in you have no idea about kendo until you GOTO A DOJO AND DO IT YOURSELF

oh just as a side note even the uninted states law says that his claims to his lineage are true, he once or twice had to defend them in court. united states law? what the hell does that have to do with martial arts?

and yes how dare you say that a shaolin monk with a dao will beat the hell out of a kenjutsu master.......what the hell is your backing for this....have you seen many contests between the 2 arts and if so.........what the hell are you doing on the kendo world forums why not just go learn shaolin with a dao?

[Twobitmage]

some info on shoalin schools here. Dunno if this will help the arguement but its worth reading anyways

What to Look for in a Shaolin School

There is no pat answer, nor any single standard that will qualify a school as Shaolin, but there are several guidelines that hold with considerable consistency. Shaolin kung fu arts have now become so thoroughly filtered into a variety of cultures that the presence of a Chinese practitioner of any age is no longer a requirement. While martial arts magazines often list reputable schools, listings are often influenced by the number of copies of that magazine are purchased (and then sold) by the school. You may do better to scan the Yellow Pages to make a short list of schools that appeal to you, and then start your homework.

Prepare a written list of questions you will ask of each school during your phone interviews. Among the important questions will be:

What style or styles will be taught ("Shaolin" is a school, not a style; it would be like calling Harvard to find out about psychology courses and being told they taught "college"). We have called dozens of schools that advertised "kung fu" only to be told, "no, we just do Tae Kwan Do-it's all the same"! It is NOT all the same, so don't fall for a con. Styles should be specific-Shantung Black Tiger, Shaolin Southern Tiger, Hung-Gar Tiger-Crane are examples of "Tiger" that are quite different from each other AND are all bona fide Shaolin styles. If someone tells you simply "tiger" and refuses to provide specifics about source, original temple, or history, excuse yourself with a simple "my liver pate is burning" and hang up. Among Shaolin styles there is one notable exception: Snake style is simply snake, be it from northern or southern roots. Probably one of those good idea styles no one had the heart to change...


Who does the actual instruction? Will you be taught by Sifu Bigname, or a sixth-month student who has trouble knotting his sash? Being taught in a famous school, even occasionally seeing the BIG MAN, is not the same as learning from him. Universities are in hot water today because the famous and Nobel-laureates they advertise as professors never or rarely grace a classroom. So, too, in kung fu. If you are to be taught by another student SOME of the time, that is fine, and traditional. However, senior people are needed for most basic instruction, because their experience is the best guarantee that you will learn properly with a minimum chance of getting hurt. Remember, your time AND money are your payment for learning the art - make sure both are adequately addressed by the school.


What is the course emphasis (sparring, self-defense, forms?) and which approach(es) will you favor? Many top instructors have experimented by training students solely in sparring or forms, with the results in sparring after six months almost completely favoring the forms people. Forms teach precision, and, sadly, you cannot learn Shaolin without forms (yes, Jeet Kune Do is a formless kung fu, but one aimed at people with some experience of basic martial arts; it is also not a Shaolin art, which is the subject of this report). If you spent the first year doing horse stances, one form, and learned a few rolls and breakfalls, you would be doing very well indeed. It is an old Shaolin adage that a master is one who, after studying a thousand techniques, finds three he can use at any time, and to perfection. Forms are the encyclopedia of styles from which these techniques are discovered.


What can you reasonably expect to be able to do after three months at the school? If someone says you'll learn three stances, have terribly sore thighs, and will be able to throw a fist without breaking your own fingers, you have a good prospect. If they tell you that you'll be ready for your first tournament and start helping with the teaching load, tell them your malpractice insurance isn't paid up and call another school!


Is competition sparring a requirement for advancement? Competitiveness is not a part of traditional Shaolin-your only competition is yourself. While you may be required to spar with fellow classmates (virtually universal), competitive sparring is something most Shaolin masters find counterproductive.


Other questions you should ask (if you get past the first five) are the same you would ask a potential employer or university:

What is the attrition rate ?

By what criteria will you be evaluated for promotion ?

What happens if you must miss a session ? (not to be a habit-but genuine sick days or emergencies happen. Must you pay for lost time, is there make-up time??)

If more than one style is offered, what must you do to be allowed to transfer (e.g., from Shantung tiger to Southern Dragon)?


Things that you should NOT accept from any martial arts school:

physical or psychological abuse (does class sound like it's being run by a Marine Corps drill instructor? Are students physically punished or humiliated for minor "infractions"?). Shaolin practitioners come from a priestly background that avoided an Inquisition phase, so do not expect or accept any physical harm or public humiliation.

Do not accept a long-term contract (three months is acceptable; one year isn't), because you do not know if your interest will survive, or if the school will survive. Besides, you can use the bank interest as much as the school can!

Do not sign a contract with a rank-related deadline (implied or specified)-you will earn a rank in the time it takes, and you cannot pay a reputable instructor to race you up the ranks. Hopefully, you would not want such a worthless rank...

Do not sell the farm or liver pate concession to pack up, move to Honan and study in China. The fact is that most of the top Shaolin practitioners left China by 1930, heading to the U.S., Canada, Hong Kong, Singapore, and Malaysia, where they have taught students and a new generation of masters. If you talk to a school representative who satisfactorily answers your questions, make an appointment to visit the school and possibly see a beginning and advanced class. The beginner's because that is where you will spend the next few months if you join; the advanced so you can see if that is how you want to look after a few years. Students are the only real advertising for teachers. Great coaches are rarely excellent former players, so judge the teachers by their products: the students they turn out.

We cannot make specific recommendations about schools or instructors-there are too many out there, we don't know them all, and pointing out the baddies subjects us to liability laws. Great teachers do not necessarily hold high rank, so don't be fooled by rank claims. There are precious few 10th-degree masters, though many a medium-sized city has three or four in the Yellow Pages. Forget rank and follow the guidelines above. Ask questions and use your judgment. If you don't like an instructor, you won't be able to learn much from him no matter his rank. Consult our Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) section if you have more questions. Good luck

[Zehm bah deh]

thank you for posting that please note that i have no bias for shaolin, or master sin the. the reason mentioned him is i have talked to some of thier sifus and as the article sugests if you ask what kinds of kung fu they teach they will say we teach tiger hua southern mantis black tiger white crane. and the list goes on origonating from the fukien temple. and you are always taught by at least a disciple. 5-19 years experience

[Hisham]

Actually I just had a discussion about this with a couple sempai of mine. I've heard, not just from them, that wing chun is more similar to Shaolin than wushu. Wushu is more fluid, like dancing, has a lot of extraneous moves. Shaolin was a much more direct style of fighting, like wing chun. Personally, while wushu is very beautiful to watch, and is respectable for it's grace, I think wing chun and consequently, Shaolin, are two very different things. Wushu was developed in Northern China, whereas Shaolin was developed in Southern China. I may have the areas reversed, but the idea is both of these arts developed in different regions, and therefore, wushu could not be descendant of Shaolin. Everybody confused?! I know I am. Let me Humbly try to clear some points, Wushu means martial arts ( 武术 [wu3 shu4] /wushu, martial arts such as shadow-boxing, swordplay, etc./ )in mandarin,like the word Budo it changed from era to era. Shaolin chuan was started at the Song shan temple which is in the northern part of china , it had a southern temple in fukien which is said to be destroyed during the ching dinasty(wing chun is believed to be found by one of the monks that survived that destruction and it is said that it was a woman) which was untill a coupla years ago more of a mith than reality, the temple has been rebuilt as it was prooven that it did exist by doing archeological search at the spot it was supposed to have stood at, the abott of the northern temple sent some monks there to get things going again.
Wing shun as choi lay fut and hung gar stemed from Shaolin.
Wushu as you have described it is the one that will be included in the olympics in China, more about aestethics and forms ("dancing" as you said) than anything else.
here is a webpage that might interest those who want to know about the history of Shao lin (mandarin) or siu lam (cantonese): http://home.vtmuseum.org/genealogy/chi_sim/chi_sim_history.php

As we're trying to shed some light on the meaning of words, another comon mistake is how the word kung fu took the meaning of "chinese martial arts" .

[Zehm bah deh]

yes. kung fu in china is a slang term for wushu but the term changes in america that is why there is slight confusion.

[CryingFreeman]

3)as for master th'e i ve heard it all and i 'm sick of dealing with you people
and i have yet to see anyone from another system beat a student of master mullins on the same level, you may doubt him as much as you want but even the modern monks have said that he has material that thier sigung's have but his is a much older form of it, also master sin is not my master , i train under master kevin mullins and sifu george maynard,
The problem with master th'e is not his martial arts knowledge or ability but the fact that he insists on propagating this magnificent lie about the lineage of Shaolin-Do, the only reason he does this is to make money, shaolin-do is a money making scheme by a martial artist with a flexible conscience. believe it or not its up to you


4) kawakami doesnt know what he wants he has never seen kendo he is ignorant, not a fool. i was always tought to stand up for the people that everyone else despises. if you cannot understand that then you do not deserve to toutch a sword,
And why were you taught this, its interesting that you dont make a distinction between people who are despised unjustly and people who are despised for just reasons. if everyone despises a serial killer would you stand up for him, despite his character? standing up for people is a noble thing if they are being unjustly persecuted. but you dont just indiscriminately stand up for people without taking a closer look to see whats really going on.

you have no idea as to who deserves or doesn't deserve to touch a sword so stop being silly


5) how dare you call yourself a martial artist? you are a hypocrit
and i never said people were born beter than others martial artists are not born they are made. i dare you to go to johnson city tennessee and see if you can toutch any of the sifus in the area,
It is you that say i call myself a martial artist, some people would say that that was entirely your perception seeing as i made no reference to it, and if perception is truth then indeed i am a martial artist, if only in your eyes


you say yourself that martial artists are made but you defend the guy who has decided he was given the divine gift for wielding the sword, surely your being hypocritical

[Hisham]

yes. kung fu in china is a slang term for wushu but the term changes in america that is why there is slight confusion. I took this from wikipedia, although a long explaination i thought it was worth posting.
PS: just noticed that some of the symboles are not supported.

Kung fu or gongfu (功夫, pinyin: gōngfu) is a well-known chinese term used in the West to designate chinese martial arts. Its original meaning is somewhat different, referring to one's ability in any skill, not necessarily martial. Many consider wushu a better term for Chinese martial arts, as it translates directly into martial art. History

The term kung fu was first known to have been reported by a Westerner, French Jesuit missionaryJean Joseph Marie Amiot, in the 18th century and was known little in the mainstream English language until approximately the late 1960s, when it became popular because of the Hong Kong films , especially those by Bruce Lee, and later Kung Fu the television series . Before that it was referred to primarily as "Chinese boxing".

Spelling

Part of the confusion around this term comes from the many ways the chinese characters 功夫 can be romanized, as Chinese romanization systems have evolved much in the past years.

Here are some of the most common versions in use today:




Kung fu is undoubtedly the most widely spread. It uses the Wade-Giles romanization system; a system that many consider obsolete today.
Gongfu is the Hanyu Pinyin romanization. With tones included this would be written gōngfu. Even though Pinyin is currently the official system of romanization of the People's Republic of China, the spelling "gongfu" is not widely used. Pinyin is, however, a popular system used for many other similar Chinese terms, such as Qigong (instead of Ch'i Kung in Wade-Giles).
Gungfu or gung fu is a Cantonese version using Yale romanization. This spelling was made popular by Bruce Lee during the 1970s.
Translation and usage

Nowadays, the most common use of the term kung fu is when referring to Chinese martial arts in general. Thus, when someone says they train kung fu, they likely mean they train in one of the many styles of Chinese martial arts. The original meaning of kung fu is quite different, and is hard to translate as there is no English equivalent. In short, 功夫 (gōngfu) means "achievement through great effort" or simply virtue. It combines 功 (gōng) meaning achievement or merit, and 夫 (fū) which translates into man. In Mandarin, when two "first tone" words such as gōng and fū are combined, the second word often takes a neutral tone, in this case forming gōngfu.

Although the term was originally used solely in reference to Chinese martial arts, it refers to excellence achieved through long practice in any endeavor. You can say that a person's kung fu is good in cooking, or that someone has kung fu in calligraphy; saying that a person possesses kung fu in an area implies skill in that area, which they have worked hard to develop. Someone with "bad kung fu" simply has not put enough time and effort into training, or seems to lack the motivation to do so.

Originally, to practice kung fu did not just mean to practice Chinese martial arts. Instead, it referred to the process of one's training - the strengthening of the body and the mind, the learning and the perfection of one's skills - rather than to what was being trained.

There is a curious contemporary twist on this meaning in the hacker culture: there the fu has been generalized to a suffix, implying that the thing suffixed involves great skill or effort. For example, one may talk of "script-fu" to refer to complicated scripting. It is unknown whether this was consciously based on the original, broader meaning of the term or whether it was a simple wordplay on the less general Western notion of "kung fu".

As many Japanese martial arts have originally evolved from Chinese martial arts, Japanese people use this word in their native pronunciation of "koufu" (Kanji:功夫, Kana:こうふ) to describe a building site laborer.

Philosophy

There are various philosophies around the term kung fu, suggesting a deeper meaning. The following is an example of such a philosophy:

For a process to truly be kung fu, the following three elements must be present:



Motivation
Self-discipline
Time
Motivation is the basic driving force, and without it, kung fu can never be reached. It means both interest and the will to do something; a person who is forced to do something is not truly motivated. A motivated person, on the other hand, has interest in learning: they have a goal.

It is important to note a difference between the various types of motivation: A person can be motivated to do something, because if they do not they will be punished. Money can also lead to motivation, because you know that doing something will give you more money. However, the motivation kung fu strives for comes from an interest and an inner desire to learn and develop, in which the goal is not an external gain, like avoiding punishment or earning money, but an internal one, with the only reward being knowledge, skill, strength and wisdom. This motivation can be inspired, but not controlled, by other people.

Self-discipline is closely related to motivation, but refers to the effort and patience required to actually get something done, and to get past obstacles that might appear on the way towards one's goal. While motivation is the mental state of wanting to do something, discipline is required to put motivation into action: A person might want to do something very much, but lacks the required amount of discipline to get started. Without this, motivation will lead to nothing.

It is true that a competent instructor can assist a person by providing discipline, helping that person to get past obstacles. This is good, but will not last forever, and in the end, it is always up to the person herself to put her thoughts into action.

Time is essential for finding one's motivation and self-discipline, and to actually accomplish something by making use of them, but motivation and self-discipline are also important to make a person willing to put time into accomplishing their goal: to prioritize.

In later stages, once motivation and discipline have become an integral part of a person's life, it is important not to stop spending time on practice. This is said to be a very important aspect of kung fu: Many ancient Chinese philosophers and martial artists consider time the most valuable commodity in a person's lives, as time cannot be replaced. It is said that one should use time wisely, and that, to get the most out of life, must practice kung fu in every activity. By finding interest in and putting effort and time into every action, one will make the best use of time, and live a happy and productive life.

[Hisham]

damn those wink smileys

[Misaki]

You guys got some interesting topics here, kept my boredom away for a while. Anyways I agree with that Kaoru chick on the part saying how you can't learn "the basics" from a book, you must be there, see someone do it and then you repeat it, all incorrectly though, lol. Trust me, when i learned how to fire a rifle i was like sure "Aim and pull the trigger" how hard could it be, but man it is so hard, there's so much stuff to consider and only after practicing with an instructor correcting your mistakes you can learn. There was this guy who always kept of boasting during the entire time in bootcamp: "I used to do hunting, firing is a piece of cake" but because he never had instruction he fell appart and he was dropped from my platoon, poor sop, haha. He had done hunting on his own before with a different type of rifle, we Marines use the M16 but he was using another rifle so the bad habits he picked up before bootcamp stuck with him and he had a harder time than those that never had touched a weapon in their life. It proves to show that a new slate can store info more easily than an old "incorrect" one. Sorry if I have typos I'm too tired to double check. Oyasumi minna -___- Zzzzz

[Karathos]

You're not "somewhat overweight." You're fat.

You seem to be more suited to practicing imaginary samurai play than playing Kendo. If you had even a single Kendo lesson, your stupid enthusiasm will vanish.

Don't bother with Kendo and continue living your samurai fantasies.

And you think that you're a samurai because you practise kendo? Lol! Kendo has actually very little to do with the real samurai trainings back in the day. Kendo is a sport that has nothing to do with life and death. YOU are the one that lives in a world of fantasies so please stop your harassement.

[Karathos]

the only comment i will make is that there are no left-handed swordsmen.

Yes there are.

[Karathos]

It seems we have a Kenshin fan amongst us...someone who searched on Google for 'Hitokiri' and found the name of Kawakami Gensai (otherwise called Komori Genjiro or Takada Genbe) Why does everyone like this romanticised b.s. shadow assassin stuff? It doesn't mean crap nowadays, so why keep fantasizing over it?

This is called 'KENDO-world', not 'fantasy anime swordsmanship-world'. Sorry to be blunt, but after browsing the threads and finding so many similar things, it seems some people have just...missed the point. And you cant be 'comfortable' with a katana if you never learned to train properly. I'm sorry, but that is the truth. Ask anyone. Well, anyone not obsessed with anime swordsmen. Nothing against anime or manga, as I watch and read it myself, but when it comes to training you have to face the fact that you cant use Hiten Mitsurugi waza. Thank you for reading.

Come on. Please be easy on the guy. And what's up with the big head attitude? I'm sorry tu burst your bubble, but kendo isn't the true way of the sword simply because it's a sport. When you train, you think of points. Many things that you do in kendo (or don't do) are actually far from the reality. Please broaden you horizons about martial arts and you will see that the true essence of martial arts resides not in points and competitions, but about life and death.

[Andou]

Come on. Please be easy on the guy. And what's up with the big head attitude? I'm sorry tu burst your bubble, but kendo isn't the true way of the sword simply because it's a sport. When you train, you think of points. Many things that you do in kendo (or don't do) are actually far from the reality. Please broaden you horizons about martial arts and you will see that the true essence of martial arts resides not in points and competitions, but about life and death.

On the contrary. I believe it is you who needs to broaden their horizons. If you truly look into the essence of kendo you will see that the majority of us aren't training for points. And many of us don't think of it as a sport. Not only that, but are you going to come out and say karate and judo aren't martial arts either because they have competitions? Kendo is a martial art. There is a sports-like mentality for some people. I can somewhat agree with you that martial arts can be derived from life and death situations, but be serious. Do you think that the little kids who sign up for karate class are honestly thinking about going into a situation when they're cornered and have to fight for life? I'm sure hand-to-hand combat has saved many lives but the sword did as well. So make sure you take into consideration that you're disrespecting the martial art that this entire forum was based on before you make such a condescending post next time.

[Karathos]

On the contrary. I believe it is you who needs to broaden their horizons. If you truly look into the essence of kendo you will see that the majority of us aren't training for points. And many of us don't think of it as a sport. Not only that, but are you going to come out and say karate and judo aren't martial arts either because they have competitions? Kendo is a martial art. There is a sports-like mentality for some people. I can somewhat agree with you that martial arts can be derived from life and death situations, but be serious. Do you think that the little kids who sign up for karate class are honestly thinking about going into a situation when they're cornered and have to fight for life? I'm sure hand-to-hand combat has saved many lives but the sword did as well. So make sure you take into consideration that you're disrespecting the martial art that this entire forum was based on before you make such a condescending post next time.

Please show me where I stated anything about karate or judo. All the disciplines that you mentioned are martial arts, but they are also sports because they have been 'modernized' from their ancestral roots. Sorry if I sounded rude or anything.

[ShinKenshi]

My oh my, after all those posts trying to help that poor guy out, I wonder where he went or what happened to him. Guess we can't help them all.

[Misaki]

Help? I thought we were just making conversation, lol.

[Andou]

Please show me where I stated anything about karate or judo. All the disciplines that you mentioned are martial arts, but they are also sports because they have been 'modernized' from their ancestral roots. Sorry if I sounded rude or anything.

You simply flat out stating that kendo is a sport and not mentioning anything about its "martial art" heritage are rude. I put martial art in quotations because I'm not sure of your interpretation. I never said you mentioned karate or judo either, I only said that I wouldn't be suprised if you would say anything about them. Yes, I believe that we could have eased up on Kawakami too, that can be argued. However, I do not see how anything cannot evolve with the times and still exist today. Excluding biological things. The truth is, according to the message I'm getting from you is, most of the martial arts that the world knows today aren't martial arts because they've been 'modernized'. Just because some people take it lightly and only for competition, it doesn't mean the whole discipline is a sport. Those who have practiced for such a long time, I am sure, can say this. Any serious kendoka can tell you that s/he doesn't play kendo, they do it.

[Karathos]

You simply flat out stating that kendo is a sport and not mentioning anything about its "martial art" heritage are rude. I put martial art in quotations because I'm not sure of your interpretation. I never said you mentioned karate or judo either, I only said that I wouldn't be suprised if you would say anything about them. Yes, I believe that we could have eased up on Kawakami too, that can be argued. However, I do not see how anything cannot evolve with the times and still exist today. Excluding biological things. The truth is, according to the message I'm getting from you is, most of the martial arts that the world knows today aren't martial arts because they've been 'modernized'. Just because some people take it lightly and only for competition, it doesn't mean the whole discipline is a sport. Those who have practiced for such a long time, I am sure, can say this. Any serious kendoka can tell you that s/he doesn't play kendo, they do it.

If it's so serious, then why is it that there are things that you can't do? The old martial arts allowed you to do anything. Why the restrictions in today's martial arts? Why can't you hit someone's leg with your shinaï? Why can't you lift your opponent's guard and kick him in the belly? Do you see what I mean by restrictive?

[Andou]

You know, if the forums allowed me, the only dignified answer I have for that is the ole "...". Because honestly. Martial arts aren't around to kill someone so much anymore. If the need arises, yes some people can indeed kill people. But let me ask you this: do you honestly believe that flocks of people will crowd to a school which allows you to do anything to anyone? With the excuse that "modern martial arts" are too restrictive? Even the old martial arts had set courtesies. I get what you mean by restrictions and yes--there are some, but they are courtesies. And from reading your other posts, I suppose I can't even understand what it is you're training for. No hard feelings though--I understand what you're coming from. But one thing you must understand is that it's not the olden days anymore. If you get ambushed by five guys demanding your wallet and you actually manage to kill them--it's not just a walk out of the city into the next village, it's questioning by the police. However if you keep training and one day manage to be able to continue your training under your sensei (from the other post) then all the power to you. My only original beef is that calling kendo a sport is just