Training with weapons

[893 fingerless]

Hi all
As a part of my study in mental health I am doing some research

Q.:ponder:
should people serious with mental health problems i dont mean the odd depressive episode, I am talking about your forensic, schizoaffective and PDtypes of patients should they be tought iai, kendo, or any martial arts,

I am intressted in your views

Fingerless

[ALI G]

Hi all
As a part of my study in mental health I am doing some research

Q.:ponder:
should people serious with mental health problems i dont mean the odd depressive episode, I am talking about your forensic, schizoaffective and PDtypes of patients should they be tought iai, kendo, or any martial arts,

I am intressted in your views

Fingerless

2 answerz youz queztionz aboutz da mentoz healthz patiencez doingz da kitanaz...No youz shoodenz B trainingz wid da weaponz.....

[roar]

Hi all
As a part of my study in mental health I am doing some research

Q.:ponder:
should people serious with mental health problems i dont mean the odd depressive episode, I am talking about your forensic, schizoaffective and PDtypes of patients should they be tought iai, kendo, or any martial arts,

I am intressted in your views

Fingerless

what is "PDtypes"?

[Sakabatou]

Hm.. mental health problems?.. what about people who are.. oh how do you say.. epilleptic? (have seziers)

[FastEd]

Hi all
As a part of my study in mental health I am doing some research

Q.:ponder:
should people serious with mental health problems i dont mean the odd depressive episode, I am talking about your forensic, schizoaffective and PDtypes of patients should they be tought iai, kendo, or any martial arts,

I am intressted in your views

Fingerless

Interesting question. I think the easy answer is, if they have or are considered by a doctor to be in danger of commiting a violent act, then it is not a good idea. How do you, as a teacher, devine this info...? good question. Thankfully people like this don't tend to stick around for the years it takes to get proficient at weapons training. On the other hand if you have been training for years and then lose your marbels, well, hopefully then you have good friends who will decide one day to "hold on to a few things for you" while you sort yourself out.

Something to check out, have a look at Hatsumi Sensei's Bujinkan member guidelines. (do a seach) I don't think I agree with setting very general rules, but illustrates one groups attempt to weed out people.

[Yowai]

Hm.. mental health problems?.. what about people who are.. oh how do you say.. epilleptic? (have seziers)

What about people that are of a mind-boggling magnitude of stupidity, like you?

[Wout]

lay off yowai, I think he Sakabatou has dropped the whole idea of starting his own style and starting his own dojo. At least I think he understands now that you can't learn kendo overnight or just by seeing movies.
And after all he really is only 14, so he will seem bit stupid sometimes, but hey if you look back you will think of yourself as stupid at the age of fourteen and can't even remember why you did the thing you did, and why you made a big thing about things that seem meaningless now. Unless you are born allknowing and omnipotent, I do think you can atleast appreciate the fact that Sak has learned one thing.
Sak, without trainin you can't really become a kendoka, you can learn a lot from books offcourse, but being able to apply the things you learn is what seperates kendo from scholarship about kendo :)


(the humble opinion of a third kyu, actually there is no reason whatsoever to believe me)

[Hattori Hanzo]

No, and this is why...I think it was in Irvine, CA there was a guy there who worked in the store that was a Paranoid Schitzophrenic that used to watch the Highlander show, one day he got this dellusion that he was a MacCloed(sp) and decided to make an attempt in beheading people in the area, whether he was cleared by a doctor or not is the case. Reports said when they interviewed people that he was a "nice quiet" guy.

http://www.kplctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1340706

True story, I am sure about the Schitzo thing although as news stories go after time has passed hard to locate any full articles.

[Sakabatou]

Yes, I've already dropped the idea of 'running' my own dojo or making my own style... I thought of it and its actually quite stupid! lol anyways I'm trying to be a REAL kenshi now, at a REAL dojo nearby here. lol so you never have to worry about those stupid "BLA BLA BLA CRAP STUPID IM A LOSER!" posts from me again.

[Jamie]

There are many people living in the community with so called mental health issues that are not receiving treatment from doctors. To exclude people with a recognised disorder is I feel unfair as they can often live quite well with a treatment programme. There are always going to be people who shouldn't train with weapons, they are not always the ones you can easily identify! Yowai's comment made me laugh though!

[Khabbi]

"Hm.. mental health problems?.. what about people who are.. oh how do you say.. epilleptic? (have seziers)"

Why shouldent ppl who are epilleptic train ? , I fail to see your point .


"No, and this is why"

So anybody with the slightes mental problem shouldent be able to do kendo ?, What if you had a mental break down for some reason when you were 10 and now 30 years later ( having no problems since then ) wish to take up kendo ? . In the US alot of ppl with mental problems are allowed to buy guns legaly , but you draw the line at kendo ?

[Hattori Hanzo]

I don't see a problem with Kendo, I mean honestly you can't kill anybody with a shinai, I guess you could hurt somebody with a bokken but kata isn't going to trigger rage.

The thing is I don't know if there is any kind of database for that kind of thing unless you are 100 percent institution certifiably insane.

In a perfect world, the dangerous people wouldn't have weapons...but this is the real world, and they do.

[Sakabatou]

There are many people living in the community with so called mental health issues that are not receiving treatment from doctors. To exclude people with a recognised disorder is I feel unfair as they can often live quite well with a treatment programme. There are always going to be people who shouldn't train with weapons, they are not always the ones you can easily identify! Yowai's comment made me laugh though!
Lol yes I did laugh at Yowai's comment myself, ven though it was making fun of me. It was quite funny though

[Shogun97]

I don't see a problem with Kendo, I mean honestly you can't kill anybody with a shinai, I guess you could hurt somebody with a bokken but kata isn't going to trigger rage.

The thing is I don't know if there is any kind of database for that kind of thing unless you are 100 percent institution certifiably insane.

In a perfect world, the dangerous people wouldn't have weapons...but this is the real world, and they do.

Right.
But who is dangerous and who's not? That's the main point.
I think people with mental health problems have a right to train, doctors should make sure if they are dangerous.
Sounds strange. Well it's my opinion.

[Khabbi]

Im still wonderning why Sakabatou doesent want ppl who are epilleptic to train .

[Hattori Hanzo]

Maybe the shimmer of the blade in Iado will trigger an epileptic seizure? :confused2

That is the thing as well there is no way to tell what is dangerous and what isn't like the Albertson's case. I guess you can judge the potential to be dangerous. I don't see anything wrong with Kendo though, because you aren't dealing with live blades.

As to other weapons, your personal history would be something good to guage if you are well enough to own a weapon. If you have a history of being violent it might not be a good idea.

[ShinobiKenjutsu]

Well, if you had that special little brain leisure act up during training with said pointy objects, said pointy objects could end in your body. Not something prohibitive of training, but epileptics ought to use caution for sure.

[Ronin055]

Actually, I wouldnt feel comfortable teaching a potentially dangerous person in this mannor. I teach Iaijutsu, with emphasis on cutting and effective use of the sword in Life/death situations. I say that as per traditional training not as if were going to go out and get in a fight tomorrow.

Case number 1. One of my students has two sons who are disadvantaged. They are autistic(sp). I wouldnt feel comfortable teaching them because of the way they get lost in "fantasy". I mean sit and watch these two (twins) recite a movie line for line. Lord of the rings, because they saw my wedding ring. Ive seen these kids get violent. Ive heard the stories. They are so nice when you meet them. But you can tell they are really out of touch. And yet their father would SO SO love to have them in class with him. To share that father son relationship. Help them with discipline etc. But the danger, the sword, is to much and he knows it. And it hurts him inside.

Case number 2. A young man entered my dojo. Looks a little off, is with his mother, and asks to join class. I allow him. As class goes on, he tends to exibit some traits I have come to recognize in people of a "different" mindset. I become concerned. I get one of the senpai and ask him if Im crazy and the kids ok. He confirms my observation.

POW-WOW insues. Topic, what do we do. The point is made that we dont knwo what his particular problem is. We dont know if hes medicated or what. we dont know if hes one of these fixation types, or what. When My wife worked at sears, she had a guy come in from the local handicap work group. He was utterly fixated with vaccume cleaners. (which she sold). He had manuels to everything and a collection of like 50 vaccumes at home. She would give him a pamphlet on some new kenmore or something and hed go nuts, like in heaven. Nice guy, weird habit. SO back to this new student. He could be like that. Not a violent bone in his body. Or, he could freak some day cause some one (mother) tells him he cant have a cookie. Now at that point do I want him trained in how to use a SWORD to cut well. Could he ever get good? Maybe not. May just not be able to grasp the concept.

Do I dumb down the class and give him a spot? Teach him iai (do) and not so much jutsu. DO I just not focus on correcting his bad habits and create a student who cant cut. After all his peace could be in the doing not the cutting. And do I just NOT invite him to dojo cutting events that would reveal my lack of instruction?

Or do I teach him full blown MA and hope for the best?

My gut said no. My mind and my sympothy said otherwise.

What to do?

Fortunatly it was taken away from me when he never returned.

I still dont have an answer.