One on one lessons?

[morbidbattlecry]

Does anyone have any opinions about privet(i can remember how to spell the stupid word) lessons? i found i believe an iaido teacher in my town but he only does one on one lessons. any opinions or experinces anyone can share with me? i'm not to sure about it. it is a small town so many he can only afford one on one with iaido. he teaches classes in akido and karate though.

[R A Sosnowski]

Does anyone have any opinions about privet(i can remember how to spell the stupid word) lessons? i found i believe an iaido teacher in my town but he only does one on one lessons. any opinions or experinces anyone can share with me? i'm not to sure about it. it is a small town so many he can only afford one on one with iaido. he teaches classes in akido and karate though.

As with any would-be instructor, I'd check his credentials first. If he's with one of the major organizations like ZNKR or ZNIR, he should be at least a Sandan (3-dan).

Find out the name of the style. Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu and Muso Shinden Ryu are common styles. Do a web-search in the name. If he's selling Aikiken or some repackaged variety of Aikido sword, chances are very good that it is not Iaido.

Find out what the requirements for advancement are. Again, the ZNKR- and ZNIR-related organizations generally hold a Shinsa (promotion exam) in front of a grading panel at least once a year for Dan grades. If the instructor does all the promoting (especially yudansha grades), that's not a good sign.

If private sword lesson costs are significantly more than Karate or Aikido private lessons, that's also not a good sign.

If he tells you a story about some mystical or hidden teachings, that's not a good sign.

There was a long thread on Iaido-L a few weeks ago on private lessons; most of my fellow instructors tend towards public rather than private classes (I contend that this is a case-by-case situation based on instructor-student dynamics). But if that's what you have, then there's not much choice in the matter (assuming this guy is legit).

There's more, but this'll give you enough guidence to see if you want to pursue it further.

HTH. Gambatte.

[Ralutin]

Does anyone have any opinions about privet(i can remember how to spell the stupid word) lessons? i found i believe an iaido teacher in my town but he only does one on one lessons. any opinions or experinces anyone can share with me? i'm not to sure about it. it is a small town so many he can only afford one on one with iaido. he teaches classes in akido and karate though.

Hi,

One obvious piece of advice is to do a thorough check of his background: style/school, rank, years of training, his teacher(s), how many students has he taught, etc. Reputable iaido instructors should have attained the rank of yondan (4 dan) or have a teaching license in a traditional style of iaido. They should also have been studying in that school for at least 10-20 years. The older, traditional styles/schools don't give out the more modern kyu/dan ranks, rather they give out teaching licenses or menkyo kaiden. So, watch out for those individuals who claim to be 10th dan (or worse yet, soke or headmaster) in a 500 year-old iaido school and says that they've been studying the sword for only 5-10 years.

This being said, what can you tell us about the iaido teacher you've found and what town is he in?

[morbidbattlecry]

honestly not very much. probly a little ahead of myself calling him one. the guys namd is brett or brent topp i believe the only way i know that they might teach iaido is through an offhanded martial arts listing on the web. so i asked a friend of mine about the place he told through his friend that the guy only gives "sword lessons"(thats just what my friend said i don't think thats the way his friend put it..) privetly. the town is wapakoneta ohio. the dojo also teaches akido sp? and this guy is also a massage therpist. so says the sign on the front of the dojo. so all my info is a little pieced togather. the only reason i even considered this is because the closest place i can find that teaches iaido is over an hour and a half away and there is a kenjutsu dojo 45 minuets away. i work 7 days a week in a factory and third shift it would be nice to find someplace close.

[morbidbattlecry]

BTW thanks for the info and posts so far:)

[Ralutin]

honestly not very much. probly a little ahead of myself calling him one. the guys namd is brett or brent topp i believe the only way i know that they might teach iaido is through an offhanded martial arts listing on the web. so i asked a friend of mine about the place he told through his friend that the guy only gives "sword lessons"(thats just what my friend said i don't think thats the way his friend put it..) privetly. the town is wapakoneta ohio. the dojo also teaches akido sp? and this guy is also a massage therpist. so says the sign on the front of the dojo. so all my info is a little pieced togather. the only reason i even considered this is because the closest place i can find that teaches iaido is over an hour and a half away and there is a kenjutsu dojo 45 minuets away. i work 7 days a week in a factory and third shift it would be nice to find someplace close.
Ah...as Raymond Sosnowski would say: "That's not a good sign..." :D

Sounds like you'll just have to keep looking or try to head out to that iaido or kenjutsu dojo...

[R A Sosnowski]

Ah...as Raymond Sosnowski would say: "That's not a good sign..." :D

Sounds like you'll just have to keep looking or try to head out to that iaido or kenjutsu dojo...

Thanks for the quote. :D

Several more not "so good signs:"

A web-search turned up:
"Eugue Ryu, Mr. Christopher S. Topp, 826 N. Circle Dr., Wapalleneta, OH 45895" on the United States Martial Arts Association (USMAA) website.

and

There is a "Eugue Ryu Karate" School in Celina Ohio according to the Karate For Christ-International website.

I would not be looking for sword instructors at either the USMAA or the K4C-I websites.

You still might have a gem there, but don't hold your breath.

[morbidbattlecry]

:) Thanks man that don't sound very good does it.... Thanks for checking it out for me too. guess i'll try the kenjutsu dojo and pratice iaido a little at a time by myself till i can find someone. kenjutsu isn't that bad is it? i mean its not as um.. whats the word spiritual as iaido and i don't know if it builds self as well but hell i don't know.

[chidokan]

let us know what you think of the two dojos and what they teach... we never hear what beginners think, if they stay, they stay, but never tell us why they stop coming! It cant be because its too hard can it? :wink:

[morbidbattlecry]

Well the kenjutsu dojo might be out but i'm still going to see. The person that is the "soke" of the style is a person of some questionable background. And the other dojo well i hope they teach iaido there it is the miame valley kendo club and iaido i have found is often pair with kendo so one can only hope:)

[HEIJO SHIN]

With regard to the thread, most good teachers in any sphere like to teach and I'm a little surprised a good Sensei in your locallity isnt teaching a full class every week, otherwise how does a teacher learn to teach?
I'm very lucky now living in France, my local dojo is only half an hour away, and the classes are small most nights max 5 people, so we get plenty of one on one.

With regards to Tim's question about people starting Iaido and not coming again.
1/ Its not a cheap sport to start?
2/ It looks very simple, but is in fact very difficult and requires much practice.
3/ It hurts your feet and ankles like hell at the start.
4/ Its not trendy like other martial arts.

Good luck in finding a teacher.

HEIJO SHIN

[chidokan]

Heijo,
I may be moving to Bordeaux, (interview in three weeks!)....I found a local dojo doing jujitsu that once ran an iaido seminar but no-one seems to advertise an iaido club in that area...could you have an ask around for me to see what goes on around that area? I looked at the kendo site for the Gironde area, nearest is Lourdes, but the jujitsu club doesnt really advertise who teaches what etc...

[HEIJO SHIN]

Heijo,
I may be moving to Bordeaux, (interview in three weeks!)....I found a local dojo doing jujitsu that once ran an iaido seminar but no-one seems to advertise an iaido club in that area...could you have an ask around for me to see what goes on around that area? I looked at the kendo site for the Gironde area, nearest is Lourdes, but the jujitsu club doesnt really advertise who teaches what etc...I will ask my Sensei on Monday about your area, I'm sure I can come up with something. I practice around 2 hours drive North at Niort.

[swordteacher99]

As with any would-be instructor, I'd check his credentials first. If he's with one of the major organizations like ZNKR or ZNIR, he should be at least a Sandan (3-dan).

Find out the name of the style. Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu and Muso Shinden Ryu are common styles. Do a web-search in the name. If he's selling Aikiken or some repackaged variety of Aikido sword, chances are very good that it is not Iaido.

Find out what the requirements for advancement are. Again, the ZNKR- and ZNIR-related organizations generally hold a Shinsa (promotion exam) in front of a grading panel at least once a year for Dan grades. If the instructor does all the promoting (especially yudansha grades), that's not a good sign.

If private sword lesson costs are significantly more than Karate or Aikido private lessons, that's also not a good sign.

If he tells you a story about some mystical or hidden teachings, that's not a good sign.

There was a long thread on Iaido-L a few weeks ago on private lessons; most of my fellow instructors tend towards public rather than private classes (I contend that this is a case-by-case situation based on instructor-student dynamics). But if that's what you have, then there's not much choice in the matter (assuming this guy is legit).

There's more, but this'll give you enough guidence to see if you want to pursue it further.

HTH. Gambatte.

Don't listen to this boob, credentials mean absolutely nothing in this day and age. You can join any group you want for a couple hundred dollars. Certificates of mastery are even cheaper. those who rely on credentials and certifications to tell them whether someone else is good at a thing or not are themselves fakes and pretenders, not realizing that such things mean nothing at all. Rely on your gut Instinct, whether the person knows of what they sppeak, and above all else, ask if they will give you an introductory lesson. Been my expereince that, if someone is saying they teach a thing, 99 percent of the time they do, you'll find out soon enough if they don't so why lie. no, be trsuting until you have reason not to be, don't follow this person advice, it auoptmatically infers lack of trust, for which you need a reason, don't assume the worst, bad way to start. ;)

[KendokaJim]

I think Mr. Sosnowski is referring to real credentials. Illegitimate dojo are relatively easy to spot. They usually teach a style that no one has ever heard of, because then, there is nothing by which to compare the instructor's style. Kenjutsu in the US throws red flags to me because there are very few legit dojos that teach it here. Hmmm... seems that I got sidetracked here. Back to the credentials. The instructor should teach a recognized ryu, and be able to name his/her instructor, and should be able to be compared to other dojo that teach the same style. There are a lot of so-called sensei in the US that sell kenjutsu under false styles and credentials. Unfortunately, there are some that actually see these people in "action" and take them for what they say and see. It may be something "practical" and nifty looking, but that does not make it real kenjutsu.

And calling a well-respected member of this community a boob is not a good way to make a well-received point. It makes you look arrogant.

[Neil Gendzwill]

You can join any group you want for a couple hundred dollars.
No, you can't. The legitimate groups are, well, legitimate, they don't sell rank. For example, if someone has teaching-level qualifications with an IKF-affiliated kendo organization, they've put in many years of training and had to demonstrate their ability in public gradings.

What you may have meant to say is that you can buy membership in a group whose sole purpose is to defraud cheaply. BUt once you learn to recognise those, like "international council of sokes" or whatever, then they also become a red flag. BTW even the fake groups don't sell themselves that cheaply - last I checked the hokey-soke groups of various stripes were charging well over $1000 for your right to bilk future suckers.

[swordteacher99]

NOt well respected by me I suppose, and really, I see a lot of 'well" respected members calling others boobs, why can I not join in, I mean really, bad example to make. Oh, and well recgonized forms and such, just a lot of hooey my friend, the best martial arts practioners are usualy the least vocal about such things. Real credentials, fake, whats the difference? Thats a rhetorical question, there is none. Elitism is not a good thing/



I think Mr. Sosnowski is referring to real credentials. Illegitimate dojo are relatively easy to spot. They usually teach a style that no one has ever heard of, because then, there is nothing by which to compare the instructor's style. Kenjutsu in the US throws red flags to me because there are very few legit dojos that teach it here. Hmmm... seems that I got sidetracked here. Back to the credentials. The instructor should teach a recognized ryu, and be able to name his/her instructor, and should be able to be compared to other dojo that teach the same style. There are a lot of so-called sensei in the US that sell kenjutsu under false styles and credentials. Unfortunately, there are some that actually see these people in "action" and take them for what they say and see. It may be something "practical" and nifty looking, but that does not make it real kenjutsu.

And calling a well-respected member of this community a boob is not a good way to make a well-received point. It makes you look arrogant.

[swordteacher99]

No, you can't. The legitimate groups are, well, legitimate, they don't sell rank. For example, if someone has teaching-level qualifications with an IKF-affiliated kendo organization, they've put in many years of training and had to demonstrate their ability in public gradings.

What you may have meant to say is that you can buy membership in a group whose sole purpose is to defraud cheaply. BUt once you learn to recognise those, like "international council of sokes" or whatever, then they also become a red flag. BTW even the fake groups don't sell themselves that cheaply - last I checked the hokey-soke groups of various stripes were charging well over $1000 for your right to bilk future suckers.

Your missing one glaring point, rank is good for holding up your pants, thats about it, it's arbitrary, and meaningless. Who says who is legitimate and who is not, you, I would trust my own judgement, seeing as it is very good. For those who's judgement is not, well, a fool and his money are soon parted and, I don't deal with fools, or take their money. Good night.

[aquilonian]

NOt well respected by me I suppose, and really, I see a lot of 'well" respected members calling others boobs, why can I not join in, I mean really, bad example to make. Oh, and well recgonized forms and such, just a lot of hooey my friend, the best martial arts practioners are usualy the least vocal about such things. Real credentials, fake, whats the difference? Thats a rhetorical question, there is none. Elitism is not a good thing/

pleased to meet you and well written.

[swordteacher99]

I think Mr. Sosnowski is referring to real credentials. Illegitimate dojo are relatively easy to spot. They usually teach a style that no one has ever heard of, because then, there is nothing by which to compare the instructor's style. Kenjutsu in the US throws red flags to me because there are very few legit dojos that teach it here. Hmmm... seems that I got sidetracked here. Back to the credentials. The instructor should teach a recognized ryu, and be able to name his/her instructor, and should be able to be compared to other dojo that teach the same style. There are a lot of so-called sensei in the US that sell kenjutsu under false styles and credentials. Unfortunately, there are some that actually see these people in "action" and take them for what they say and see. It may be something "practical" and nifty looking, but that does not make it real kenjutsu.

And calling a well-respected member of this community a boob is not a good way to make a well-received point. It makes you look arrogant.

LOL, I fit in rather well then, since most of you well respected folks here regularly come across as quite arrogant from what I have read. What, too presumptuous to be so until I have licked some boots, sorry, not my style, I call it like it is. I consider practical things things that work, making something as simple as possible, you seem to see practical in the exact opposite way I do, a pity. Bye :)

[KendokaJim]

It's interesting that you call us elitist, and then go on to say how what you do is better than our art. Yes, I said art. What seperates kendo from sport is spirituality. The concepts of zanshin, seme, and reiho all negate sport. Sure, it does have sport aspects, such as competition, but it is that spiritual cultivation that make it an ART.

How can you determine who is well-respected and who isn't? You've been on the forums for a day.

Did you join this forum just to knock kendo and prove what a supreme sword master you are? You may see kendo as a watered down form of JSA, but when was the last time you had a duel and killed someone? All of these forms are watered down now because they are not needed in daily life as they were in feudal Japan. Why practice sparring with bokken, with no armour (by the way, bogu was developed IN feudal Japan as a way to spar without seriously injuring fellow practitioners) other than to prove how bad ass you are? Kendo is recognized around the world as an art, and it seems that people who practice homegrown kenjutsu have a problem with that; as though being practical and tough could cover up illegitmacy.

As for the credentials thing, you're right about the best martial arts practitioners not being vocal about credentials. But the word best can be taken a couple of different ways. By best, I mean those that practice a recognized system and can prove that they teach just that when asked.
Hesitation in this regard is usually proof of illegitmacy.

And please, please tell me to come to your dojo and see how "real" your sword fighting is. That's always a popular response with the "practical" kenjutsu crowd.

[swordteacher99]

It's interesting that you call us elitist, and then go on to say how what you do is better than our art. Yes, I said art. What seperates kendo from sport is spirituality. The concepts of zanshin, seme, and reiho all negate sport. Sure, it does have sport aspects, such as competition, but it is that spiritual cultivation that make it an ART.

How can you determine who is well-respected and who isn't? You've been on the forums for a day.

Did you join this forum just to knock kendo and prove what a supreme sword master you are? You may see kendo as a watered down form of JSA, but when was the last time you had a duel and killed someone? All of these forms are watered down now because they are not needed in daily life as they were in feudal Japan. Why practice sparring with bokken, with no armour (by the way, bogu was developed IN feudal Japan as a way to spar without seriously injuring fellow practitioners) other than to prove how bad ass you are? Kendo is recognized around the world as an art, and it seems that people who practice homegrown kenjutsu have a problem with that; as though being practical and tough could cover up illegitmacy.

As for the credentials thing, you're right about the best martial arts practitioners not being vocal about credentials. But the word best can be taken a couple of different ways. By best, I mean those that practice a recognized system and can prove that they teach just that when asked.
Hesitation in this regard is usually proof of illegitmacy.

And please, please tell me to come to your dojo and see how "real" your sword fighting is. That's always a popular response with the "practical" kenjutsu crowd.


Ah well you were sounding good, till you fouled up with that recognized system stuff. First off, who recognizes a sytem,a large group of people, but what if they are all bums, is it more or less valid at that point? And isn't the realness of what is practiced what makes it legitimate, not because you who say your legitimate and belong to a "legitimate" school, says so? Now spirit aside, wear all the armor and protection you want, that ain't real, so that ain't legitimate, that's sport. There is some art yes, but in the end, it is just sport, without the risk or possibility of serious injury. Not going to get into a personal arguement with you here, sorry. Not knocking anything, just don't call an orange a cucumber is all. Bye bye.

[swordteacher99]

pleased to meet you and well written.

Thank you, I am trying to make some solid well made points is all.

[mingshi]

...who recognizes a ssytem,a large group of people, but what if they are all bums, is it more or less valid at that point? And isn't the realness of what is practiced what makes it legitimate, not because you who say your legitimate and belong to a "legitimate" school, says so? Now spirit aside, wear all the armor and protection you want, that ain't real, so that ain't legitimate, that's sport...
Sorry mate. We belong to the International kendo fed. and also the All Japan Fed, who sets all the rules, promote the art and created the community.

You, on the other hand, think that swinging a real sword is the real deal... which is not very different from those cosplay kenshin fans. Comparing to the "practical sword masters", we kendoka are of course very sporty.

[swordteacher99]

I can tell who you think is most well respected, that is enough ;)


It's interesting that you call us elitist, and then go on to say how what you do is better than our art. Yes, I said art. What seperates kendo from sport is spirituality. The concepts of zanshin, seme, and reiho all negate sport. Sure, it does have sport aspects, such as competition, but it is that spiritual cultivation that make it an ART.

How can you determine who is well-respected and who isn't? You've been on the forums for a day.

Did you join this forum just to knock kendo and prove what a supreme sword master you are? You may see kendo as a watered down form of JSA, but when was the last time you had a duel and killed someone? All of these forms are watered down now because they are not needed in daily life as they were in feudal Japan. Why practice sparring with bokken, with no armour (by the way, bogu was developed IN feudal Japan as a way to spar without seriously injuring fellow practitioners) other than to prove how bad ass you are? Kendo is recognized around the world as an art, and it seems that people who practice homegrown kenjutsu have a problem with that; as though being practical and tough could cover up illegitmacy.

As for the credentials thing, you're right about the best martial arts practitioners not being vocal about credentials. But the word best can be taken a couple of different ways. By best, I mean those that practice a recognized system and can prove that they teach just that when asked.
Hesitation in this regard is usually proof of illegitmacy.

And please, please tell me to come to your dojo and see how "real" your sword fighting is. That's always a popular response with the "practical" kenjutsu crowd.

[mingshi]

I have a funny feeling that this guy things legitimacy is shown through "shinken shobu"... :rolleyes:

[swordteacher99]

I have a funny feeling that this guy things legitimacy is shown through "shinken shobu"... :rolleyes:

What makes one legitimate is subjective, and in the end, a matter of perception. As your belonging to a federation gives you no legitimacy in my eyes, this tells you what I respect, and that is not it. To each his own, but to seek out others to legitimize yourself and what you do, well, doe's not seem very right to me, but this is just me. have a nice night Mingshi.

[ZealUK]

To each his own, but to seek out others to legitimize yourself and what you do, well, doe's not seem very right to me, but this is just me. have a nice night Mingshi.

I wouldn't worry about it. I don't think anyone here thinks you have any legitimacy to begin with.

[rottunpunk]

in reply to original question (cant be arsed reading the legitimacy arguments)

id go and check him out. im guessing you've had iai lessons before, so you will soon know if he is any good as a teacher.

when i started i had the benefit of two on one teaching. this meant i progressed very quickly. then i moved to uni and the teacher seems more interested in numbers in the club, this way i picked up many bad habits and did not recieve the teaching i needed. plus i got bored easily as the teacher structures lessons like his jitsu ones (show general form then tell people to do it-regardless of how the student is progressed themselves). iai is so subjective to the person i think its better to teach one on one or small classes. maybe thats why he does this.

its worth a look if you are interested otherwise you will never know.
:p

[ScottUK]

I wouldn't worry about it. I don't think anyone here thinks you have any legitimacy to begin with.Could you be any more correct, Mr Bradshaw??? We are all aware of who this guy is. A kenjutsu/kendo/iai nobody who visits us all to stir up crap.

Check his previous posts. Every one is stirring up trouble and going against the grain of the thread.

Arse.

Anyway, how's the Jigenryu going?

[rottunpunk]

they are not personal attacks matey-just general observations. and if a few people have made them, does it not drop a few subtle hints into your ignoramus nuggin?

i like scottuk, hes got a good sense of humour-dont pick on him or i shall talk at you in motherly tones. not a threat, just a warning. :p

[ScottUK]

I don't have anything to say to you in PM that I wouldn't say to you in an open thread or to your face.

You are a troll - the only ability you have is to wind up people. BS-artist.

[ScottUK]

Punk, go search for a member (now banned) named Mad_God. Read his crap. Note his style of writing. Observe the teacher above. Then come back and say hi... :D

[rottunpunk]

hehe - cheers scotty ol chum.
hey mad_god. up yours. you've given me lots of fun and passed the time away nicely today - nobhead
:P

[ScottUK]

Hehe - nobhead - ain't heard that for years... :D

Seeya up north one of the days...

[hamish]

Oh, and well recgonized forms and such, just a lot of hooey my friend, the best martial arts practioners are usualy the least vocal about such things. Real credentials, fake, whats the difference?
You seem to be the most vocal about credentials, what does that say?

There's a very big difference between real and fake credentials, especially if you want to practice a real sword art, not something that has been made up and sold as the real deal. Usually sold not by the merits of the lineage of the teacher or the style, but by knocking legitimate styles instead, so we've got a pretty good idea where you fit into the scheme of things.