Yamato Doh on BoguBag.com

[KendokaJim]

Does anyone know the difference between the Yamato doh that is offered on BoguBag.com? There are upgrades under each set it seems... there is a 50 stave Yamato doh for $120, and then there is the same description for one that is $170... and no details or pictures are posted. Totally confusing!!!

[Chopstix]

It seems to me that the difference in price is attributable to other factors not related to the quality of the Yamato doh.

[Hai_hai]

Does anyone know the difference between the Yamato doh that is offered on BoguBag.com? There are upgrades under each set it seems... there is a 50 stave Yamato doh for $120, and then there is the same description for one that is $170... and no details or pictures are posted. Totally confusing!!!

You can always contact the people at bogubag.com for questions. Or, you can search the forum about Yamato Do.
There is a difference. They cost more than fiber do and less than bamboo do. You get what you pay for.

[Andoru]

KendokaJim is referring to the difference between the yamato dohs themselves I believe.

[KendokaJim]

KendokaJim is referring to the difference between the yamato dohs themselves I believe.

You believe correct! I've contacted Mr. Stroud before, and I can't seem to get a good answer out of him...

[slidercrank]

You believe correct! I've contacted Mr. Stroud before, and I can't seem to get a good answer out of him... A dou consists of 2 main parts, dou-tai and mune. Dou-tai is the main protector thati's either yamato or bamboo. The backside of a yamato dou-tai can have either a flat surface, or verticle lines that look like bamboo staves. Thus, a "50-stave" yamato dou and a plain yamato dou are absolutely the same, except one looks like a bamboo dou-tai to untrained eyes.

Mune is the chest protector, the big, stiff piece of leather above dou-tai. The quality of leather and type of decorations can make one mune much more expensive than the next.

In addition to those 2 main parts, there are 6 leather loops to which the himo's are attached (plus another leather loop on the backside), and the leather edge trim around the sides and the bottom of the dou-tai. A cheap dou's leather loops are just flat pieces of leather. A better one will have leather loops that are rolled and sewed. Much more durable. Some dou's have 2 better quality leather loops on the chest and 4 cheap ones on the sides to cut cost. The leather trim around the dou-tai can be either single-folded or double-folded. A cheap dou's leather trim is all single-folded. Better ones have the double-folded trim in the front and single-folded trim in the back. The best one has double-folded leather trim everywhere. And remember, when you talk about leather, the quality of the leather can go from scrap to "Coach" grade.

Also the himo's that come with the dou. A look at the e-bogu.com will show that the price difference between the best and the cheapest dou him is $15.

Many of these things cannot be discerned by just looking a picture, or even when you look at it while holding the dou in your hands.

So do you still wonder now why 2 dou's with the same dou-tai can have a price difference of $50?

[Hai_hai]

You believe correct! I've contacted Mr. Stroud before, and I can't seem to get a good answer out of him...

You see... the real answer is it doesn't matter. When you wear your do during practice, the last thing you are thinking about is your do. You are constantly trying to get better at kendo, using the right form, blah blah blah... if you are focusing on what do you are wearing, then you aren't doing kendo, you are trying to be fashionable, popular, cool looking or whatever else but kendo.

[Andoru]

What's so wrong about doing price versus quality research on bogu?

[KendokaJim]

Eaxctly what I was looking for... so the difference would be in the mune, not the do-tai. Awesome! Thanks to most of you! Haha!

[Curtis]

There is a difference between the two dodai. The regular Yamato do in thinner and lighter like a fiber doh. The 50 stave lookalike doh is thicker and provides a little more protection against the shock of the strike. It mimics quite closely but not completely a bamboo doh. In most sets the mune is the same but punched for 50 staves instead of 43 for the upgrade.

I have been buying bogu from Koei for about 15 years now and prior to that from the owner's brother at Hiroya. I have had almost zero problems or defects.

[Hai_hai]

Eaxctly what I was looking for... so the difference would be in the mune, not the do-tai. Awesome! Thanks to most of you! Haha!

Oooo, feel the difference. First off, you have to get approved to wear bogu. To do that, you need to prove yourself to your sensei. A do is a do unless you are a wanna-be samurai show-off.

You are going through what a lot of beginners go through what I call... bogu-love anxiety. It's when you have to research as much as possible on bogu to make sure you look super cool.

[KendokaJim]

Listen, I was told by my sensei that I should start looking at bogu, not that it was any of your business or anything. I'm not really concerned with "looking cool" as you put it, but more concerned with getting the best protection for my money. Now, in response to "a do is a do", you can go ahead and buy a cheap one so you can show off your macho bruises later on (who's the wannabe samurai again?), but I'd rather do the smart thing and buy one of better quality (that won't fall apart after a year) that will last me for years to come. Why be so negative to new kendoka? By the way, thank you for making my first post here such a great experience. Oh, Curtis, thank you for your positive and helpful response, I've heard only great things about Koei bogu so far!

[slidercrank]

There is a difference between the two dodai. The regular Yamato do in thinner and lighter like a fiber doh. The 50 stave lookalike doh is thicker and provides a little more protection against the shock of the strike. It mimics quite closely but not completely a bamboo doh. In most sets the mune is the same but punched for 50 staves instead of 43 for the upgrade.

I have been buying bogu from Koei for about 15 years now and prior to that from the owner's brother at Hiroya. I have had almost zero problems or defects.
Wait, is that true? Koei's owner's brother owns Hiroya? I bought my bogu from Hiroya. What do you think of the 2 company's products, since you have had such a long experience to compare/contrast?

I didn't know that Yamato dou's with stave-look-alike are thicker than plain Yamato dou's. Were you able to confirm this by measurement, or the ownder clarified it with you??

[Curtis]

Wait, is that true? Koei's owner's brother owns Hiroya? I bought my bogu from Hiroya. What do you think of the 2 company's products, since you have had such a long experience to compare/contrast?

I didn't know that Yamato dou's with stave-look-alike are thicker than plain Yamato dou's. Were you able to confirm this by measurement, or the ownder clarified it with you??
Yes they are brothers. What happened was Hiroya decided to give me less of a discount perhaps because he didn't want to mess with overseas sales at the time (1980's). I was only buying maybe up to $3000 worth a year at that time. So I contacted Koei and then found out later they were brothers (Hirono is their last name). Koei has been very good to me. They given me several gifts over the years including a black samegawa doh which I hardly wear, but gets lots of oohs and aahs when I do.

At the time I switched over the product line was almost identical or the same. I have not seen a Hiroya catalog for a long time, but imagine the quality is still good.

I buy from e-bogu as well and they have given us screaming deals on stuff. At this point my brother and I have probably bought $40 to $50k worth of stuff from them at least.

Yes the 50 stave Yamato doh is thicker/heavier. I have bought a few for people. Wouldn't be much point if it wasn't considering the extra cost. I thought about buying one for a practice set but I really prefer bamboo even though the cost is much higher. Besides I'm old and fussy now....

[Hai_hai]

Listen, I was told by my sensei that I should start looking at bogu, not that it was any of your business or anything. I'm not really concerned with "looking cool" as you put it, but more concerned with getting the best protection for my money. Now, in response to "a do is a do", you can go ahead and buy a cheap one so you can show off your macho bruises later on (who's the wannabe samurai again?), but I'd rather do the smart thing and buy one of better quality (that won't fall apart after a year) that will last me for years to come. Why be so negative to new kendoka? By the way, thank you for making my first post here such a great experience. Oh, Curtis, thank you for your positive and helpful response, I've heard only great things about Koei bogu so far!

Great, here's the deal, you can spend $300 on bogu or $3000 on bogu and you will still get bruises. Bogu, in general, is only partially protective and doesn't really provide good padding on very hard hits. If you don't believe that, examine a couple of different bogu. Padding is close to the same amount in the same areas. Granted more expensive bogu will last longer but that's it.

[Andoru]

Great, here's the deal, you can spend $300 on bogu or $3000 on bogu and you will still get bruises. Bogu, in general, is only partially protective and doesn't really provide good padding on very hard hits. If you don't believe that, examine a couple of different bogu. Padding is close to the same amount in the same areas. Granted more expensive bogu will last longer but that's it.
Trolling is one thing....providing inaccurate info is another! :rolleyes:

[KendokaJim]

Great, here's the deal, you can spend $300 on bogu or $3000 on bogu and you will still get bruises. Bogu, in general, is only partially protective and doesn't really provide good padding on very hard hits. If you don't believe that, examine a couple of different bogu. Padding is close to the same amount in the same areas. Granted more expensive bogu will last longer but that's it.

That's all I was looking for in the first place. I'm going to invest mroe money so that my bogu lasts longer...

[Andoru]

Hai's post is meaningless as per usual - no one contradicts him coz everyone is sick of correcting him.

[KendokaJim]

Hai's post is meaningless as per usual - no one contradicts him coz everyone is sick of correcting him.

Understood... thanks for the tip!

[Hai_hai]

For the price of bogu you are looking at. The minor cost difference between fiber do and yamato do is trivial. The kote, men, and tare will have similar stiffness/protectiveness/stitching qualities.

[Hai_hai]

Does anyone know the difference between the Yamato doh that is offered on BoguBag.com? There are upgrades under each set it seems... there is a 50 stave Yamato doh for $120, and then there is the same description for one that is $170... and no details or pictures are posted. Totally confusing!!!

That $50 difference is negligible. Not only that, you are better off mixing and matching bogu pieces and spending more on men and kote and less on do and tare.

[Hai_hai]

Hai's post is meaningless as per usual - no one contradicts him coz everyone is sick of correcting him.

You have never worn bogu. That is why you don't know the difference. Do hits are the least painful even on hard hits. And that's getting hit wearing a plain fiber do, not bamboo do and not Yamato do

[minjih]

Hai's post is meaningless as per usual - no one contradicts him coz everyone is sick of correcting him.
I could not agree more.

KendokaJim - heed everyone else's advice on this matter, except Hai Hai's. He's never posted anything of value since he joined these Forums. Good luck with your bogu shopping!

Min

[ALI G]

You have never worn bogu. That is why you don't know the difference. Do hits are the least painful even on hard hits. And that's getting hit wearing a plain fiber do, not bamboo do and not Yamato do

Puhleez....Diss Luser didn'tz even makez itz 2 Boguz & hez givinz advicez aboutz gettingz hitz on da Doz....

[jfluh9]

:wink: Wow I thought that this was a forum about Kendo, not judging others on thier kendo abilities. dont get so personal. If you have an answer to someones question...answer it.....if not.....move on. My $.02 :wink: :wink: