Cross Swords, Know Love??

[mingshi]

Noticing the motto at London's Mumeishi dojo, "Cross Swords, Know Love", I was wondering...
What type of Kendoka do you particularly HATE practising with?

This is to express my anger+frustration over some fellow Kendoka. Damn them sometimes after Kendo I think I've to go for some anger-management class because of those dumb-asses.

I'll start by saying---
I HATE THOSE WHO KEEP MISSING CUTS AND SMASHING MY UNARMORED PARTS WITHOUT ANY FEELING OF REGRET!!
:mad: :mad: :mad:
I fully understand Kendo is a full body-contact martial art, and missing cuts on undesirable areas is inevitable. One smash on my elbow, I can take. It's okay if you've missed twice. But for the 3rd time? Please pause for a while and think about what you're doing. Most of the time when people miss cuts they sign for a 'Ya-me' to check if their opponent is okay. I think this should be an unspoken part of Reigi because a normal human being would understand this. Hey if I did 10 jikeiko and every one misses 3 cuts on me, then I'll be receiving 30 with my own flesh. Although it's not my primary concern, I don't want special attention on public transportation when I go home at late-night with numerous bruise on my arms (the big fishing gear pack is drawing enough attention already).

Someone please have their own entry and explaination, so that we'd all know what we shouldn't be doing, and to make our practice more enjoyable. Thanks. (or I'll fill up the list by putting down more of mine)

(BTW... This teaching of Kendo actually contradicts with the Jedi Codes, which states that, "A Jedi Shall Not Know Anger. Nor Hatred. Nor Love." :p )

[cklin]

I like practicing with all types of kendoka -- perhaps even more so those who piss me off.

Because those who piss me off are most often the ones that are showing me my weaknesses, technical and psychological. Sometimes it's a bitter pill to swallow, though. :P

Mingshi -- I think we've all been on the receiving end of that kind of kendo, but maybe think about it this way instead: if the guy can hit me three times in the same WRONG spot, then if he were just a little more skilled, that means he can hit me three times on the same RIGHT spot. So somehow you've gotta come up with a counter-strategy for those guys. IMO, learning how to control your opponent is a big part of kendo, whether they know how to hit correctly or not.

Hey, they might not be playing kendo, but you are, right?

[inner_cent]

I absolutely agree with cklin.
Although missed hit do annoy people, but then, inevitably, they are quite "lethal" if you look at it. If they do some how controlled their hit, you already lost a point. Plus, if they hit and missed, it could mean they do not ment to missed, but somehow missed it. But, if you look at another perspective, that mean you have opening for them to attack.
I personally don't hold any grudge on those missed hits, since I often receive them in the pass when I was helping to teach the beginner.... acting as mototachi, it is definately not fun (can you imagine 25 beginners, practicing "Do" cut on 2 motodachi only. I went how and found my rib cage near the arm pit was bruised the size of my fist).

The only time I really don't forget the person (which happened once), was the person deliberately pushed and wack regardless of anything. I end up have no choice and Tsuki him so hard, just to teach him a lesson.

[KhawMengLee]

Mistakes are okay, we all make mistakes.

But I hate it when people don't learn from their mistakes.

Theres a person in my dojo who started out the same time as us(8months) and he still makes the same mistakes.

eg:

Maai and seme. He doesn't begin his cuts at the correct distance. like for a men cut. we start at sakigawa (the tips) of the shinais touching. we move in and then cut.

he will start too close in, take another step and hit you with the bottom part of the shinai(below the nakayuki).

We keep telling him adjust your distance but still it doesn't click.

sigh, maybe he's just too tired.

************************************************

If I screw up...eg. elbow hit instead of do, I will usually carry on but apologize later after practice because I don't want to distrupt the flow.

MENG

[iwatekenshi]

‚h‚†�@‚”hat person�@sucks at practicing keiko.�@�@Then just say thank you, end it and move on. No point in practicing with someone who doesn't know what kendo really is. They'll get the point sooner or later.

[kendo_chick]

The only type of Kendoka that I dislike practising with is the type that shows you absolutely no respect. For example, hitting you when your back is turned to them. I don't even mind getting hit in untarget places, however, if someone is obviously making mistakes, and not just hitting you by accident, it makes me a little upset. But, as cklin said, it is a lesson in patience.

[David J]

I guess my pet peeve is beginners who show no attempt to follow dojo etiquette or respect. My problem with them, is I'm never sure what to do with them when they dont behave. I'm still a newbie myself (though I at least wear partial bogu so obviously dont look like its my first week), so in part its not my place to discipline them, and also I dont want to frighten them away by seeming severe. But it does piss me off to play motodatchi and be waiting for the next person in line (line? what line?!!) to come at me cos they're too busy chatting, propping up the wall, leaning on their shinai etc etc. If I'm gonna stand there and be a human target, at least have the decency to hit me!!!

Am I being too anal? Obviously, a lot of these guys arent going to stick at it, but I dont want to come over as firebreathing, especially when I'm a novice myself. But when "running the shallow end" as the most experienced non-boguist that day, its annoying to have to repeatedly ask people to get in line, and yet end up standing there shouting "Hajime!!" so that someone will wake up and come hit me....

I want to welcome them to Kendo, and hope they do stick at it, but I also want them to help me get on with the session!

<rei>

Dave

[Matthew Lagden]

I know what you mean David, especially as you do Motadachi quite a lot.

Generally though, those who get as far as buying a Hakama do 'get with the program' and start to follow Dojo rules. Maybe it is something to do with being 'in costume'.

I think you need to step up into the middle end as it were - you are at least as ready, as say, me.

My peeve is people who ignore the Sensai's instructions during Jigeiko - as an EG he will say, practise cutting Men, don't block, do it slowly and concentrate on getting it right, and people are so fired up to do Jigeiko that they cut Kote, block, dance around etc etc

then you have the option of following suit or just allowing yourself to get bashed.

thats a new in armour fault to match the newbie fault...

[8 Chips]

I HATE THOSE WHO KEEP MISSING CUTS AND SMASHING MY UNARMORED PARTS WITHOUT ANY FEELING OF REGRET!!
Posted by Mingshi

I sympathize with you mingshi, every Kendoka should be big enough to admit that they have landed a crappy cut and periodically when its particularly heavy, stop and check that your opponent is okay - I think this is an important part of Dojo etiquette. My personal pet hate, which I'm sure will drive me to anger management courses is Kendoka who do nothing but block every single attack you make. This I could deal with if say, someone is attempting to develop a counter attacking technique or trying to time suriage waza to perfection, but to have someone block everything you do with NO ATTEMPT to do anything themselves drives me mad. Perhaps I'm being to harsh, I'd be interested to know from any of you how you deal with such Kendoka.

[Matthew Lagden]

Er that might be me actually - especially when i am tired. i'll try not to be so defensive in future.

i get annoyed when people do Men cut so hard your teeth rattle.

i have literally seen stars sometimes.

i think, "we're not in a Shiai, chill out a little bit!"

especially if your armour is not so good, you come out of Keiko half an inch shorter.

I always come away from Keiko with bruises up and down my arms - i just figured this was part of the deal?

[8 Chips]

Matthew,
A visiting sensei once told me that there is no shame in being cut whilst practicing jigeiko, in fact he used to watch your cuts come in 3 maybe 4 times, working out your timing, your weaknesses, your overall approach. Then he'd leather you! It appears to me that no-one learns anything from constantly blocking without any attempt to develop their own Kendo. If you really are so tired that you cannot physically attack any more, try watching one or maybe two cuts coming in, look at your opponents timing, footwork, body movement etc, etc, you may find it more beneficial than simply blocking all the time.

Keep practicing

[Matthew Lagden]

Good advice.

often also it is fear or emotional tiredness which causes one to block rather than take the initiative.

but like in all things, conquering fear and tiredness to take the initiative is always a better tactic than allowing your opponent to take the initiative and then trying to catch up.

[alexpollijr]

I am aware that this is not very buddhist or polite or whatever, but I deeply hate some kind of people who pop up at the dojo.

The first is the 'i-know-it-all-about-martial-arts' type. This guy says he has practiced every imaginable martial art and claims to know everything about it. So, even beinh your kohai, he thinks he's in his right to correct the others, even his sempai.

The second is the 'i-whack-you-whatever-i-want-to' type. This guy has some bizarre notions about kendo and makes it a point to not only strike whatever part of you but to teach shushinsha to do the same. They tuck the kensen inside your sleeve, causing a nasty welt/bruise combination, he turns around and strike your back when you are following through after 'do', strike the neck, the arm, the arm pit, whatever. And he makes no apology and continues to employ these unimaginable stupid techniques practice after practice.

The third type is the cocky shushinsha/mudansha. THis kind has just joined the dojo, makes everything wrong but thinks he's so much better than the other shushinsha who joined with him that he starts to pester around asking when he can use kendogu, when can he spar, etc.


Coincidently :rolleyes: I have them all in my dojo. The first one I concluded that I would just ignore him completely and in keiko just outmatch him, even if he can't notice that. The second one I'm going to settle things with this weekend. I'll probably strike him in his wounded shoulder. That'll teach him not to strike people's back. The third type I already solved last practice by bashing his skill in front of all the shushinsha.

For now, I'll keep boiling this rich blend of contempt and anger in my mind as I try to heal the physical wounds.

[JSchmidt]

"to come at me cos they're too busy chatting, propping up the wall, leaning on their shinai etc etc. If I'm gonna stand there and be a human target, at least have the decency to hit me!!! "

David, just tell them. Most are not aware of the etiquette and just need to be told once (sometimes twice).

Jakob

[David J]

Originally posted by JSchmidt
David, just tell them. Most are not aware of the etiquette and just need to be told once (sometimes twice).

Jakob

After the third time was when the frustration started to kick in...:(

<rei>

Dave

[Matthew Lagden]

you could have a word with jeff sensei?

are they really that bad? (honest question - i haven't noticed).

i agree with your general comment - the dojo is loud enough already, what with Kiai etc, people should stay still and quiet when not called upon to move.

[kendo_chick]

There are several people that start Kendo thinking "it's so cool, it's japanese" and that's about it. They think no further then to try something that looks cool. That's fine I suppose for their purposes, however I think that if you are going to try out an art, or a sport, that requires rules and respect, try and follow these rules and respects and do not walk around like you own the place.

Now that I've rambled enough... Most people realize after a little while at a dojo that there are certain courtesies that you show to others and to their equipment as well.

The best way that I have found to gently tell people that they are being disrespectful, is to tell them to treat their shinai as if they were live blades. I mean you wouldn't lean on a sword or twirl it around, that could result in a loss of a limb!!!

As for people that don't follow what the sensei or sempai is saying: That was happening a lot in our club, so we sat down (the senior members of the club and our instructor) and discussed it. Basically what we came up with is that once your bogu is on, we do kirikashi and then after that if there are any drills that the instructor thinks would be good to do, we do those. After that, it should be mutually agreed between the kendoka what they want to do, be it geiko, drills, or whatever. That seems to work quite well. Just a thought!

:)

[KhawMengLee]

"to come at me cos they're too busy chatting, propping up the wall, leaning on their shinai etc etc. If I'm gonna stand there and be a human target, at least have the decency to hit me!!! "

Dave, mate, if the beginners did this they would be asked to leave by our Sensei. A shidan once said to me that if you take off your men in during the practice it means you have lost. During that one hour half you have to give it your all.

I mean at our dojo we got a small tight group (about 14 grade holders). Even today at practice when I was completely buggered I was urged on by my sempais. I was totally wasted and felt ashamed I could not carry out the cuts fully.

I mean, if any of us slack off we are sure to be caught out. I think its a good attitude where we watch each other and push the limit.

With the beginners, out of a group of 12 usually only 4 or 5 remain after the 12 weeks.

If people are chatting and slacking off they are not taking kendo seriously. The only person you cheat is yourself if you slack off.


PEACE
MENG

[David J]

You're right Matthew, this is something I should have a quiet word about with Jeff - its his dojo after all - part of the problem really since I dont feel I can/should be ordering people around in my position.

As to how bad people are - well, it varies as to who turns up - but the new hall is no help since it is much louder. But when all seniors are kicking off at the same time and making lots of racket, its hard to keep order in the non-bogu section without seeming like a hard-ass, which is not the style of most of the rest of the dojo....tricky

<rei>

Dave

[lewis]

Actually, the only type of kendoka that gets to me are the senior students who, for whatever reason, take it easy with me or are otherwise not really trying. I dislike it not so much because it could be considered disrespectful, but because it robs me of an opportunity to get the most out of my training. Thankfully, though, it is rare to have this happen and if it occurs with a kendoka I respect, he(she) usually responds well to a respectful request (I don't, however, ask those I don't respect).

The other types railed against so far I expect as a natural part of the training process and follow clkin's philosophy.

[Matthew Lagden]

i sympathise - i was a bit like that when i started, but caught on quick - we seem to have a constat throughput of beginners as well, so some will be relatively good, some not and there is little group feeling amongst them as there was when i started.

it is difficult.

maybe you could talk to them collectively before the keiko starts to try and get your point across.

I'm sure if you spoke to him Jeff would say something at the beginning of keiko - you are doing the beginners a real favour by acting as motadachi and i'm sure he would want that respected.

alternatively you could just wack them with a bokken in the way jeff demonstrated a 19th century japanese dojo would have done!:)

[KhawMengLee]

As to how bad people are - well, it varies as to who turns up - but the new hall is no help since it is much louder. But when all seniors are kicking off at the same time and making lots of racket, its hard to keep order in the non-bogu section without seeming like a hard-ass, which is not the style of most of the rest of the dojo....tricky

Dave, just asking, how is your beginner/non bogu section structured?

Do they train with the seniors?

At our dojo there is two hours of training. In the first hour our Sensei takes the beginners and we train at the seperate end.
During the second hour the beginners finish and our Sensei comes back to train with us. This way they don't get a chance to screw around.

As they progress they slowly join us in kieko doing basic cuts. Usually what happens(hee hee:D ) is we all become motodachi and the beginners do endless rounds of kihon cuts. This is where we get a nice rest(not relaxed though) and watch the beginners sweat. As they progress into bogu.(..eg. tare, do and kote first. Ending in men) they get a feel of what it is like to be struck...hee hee another chance to take revenge for all the CONAN men cuts they do.

PEACE
MENG

MENG

[JSchmidt]

Actually, the thing that usualy pisses me off the most, is not missed cuts, bad reigi, whatever..it's a bad motodachi during kihon/uchikome/kagari-geiko.
The ones that always make you correct the distance, closing their chudan so you can't hit kote, when you are supposed to do kote-waza, etc....but especially the distance things really annoy me...especially when they move so far back, that you dont have room to go through properly.

Jakob

[mingshi]

To continue the arguement on

"PEOPLE MISSING CUTS WITHOUT APOLOGIZING"---
Cklin, inner_cent:- That's very strange logic that you're applying... Unarmoured parts are not my openings!! If they what that kind of openings, why don't they just do some forward rolls and smash my knees? Kendo has limited cuts on the 4 areas, and THEY cannot hit correctly, are THEIR FAULT. Hey next time I'll try "missing" a few Tsuki on their Tare and I'll see what's gonna happen.

Cklin: you said, "...then if he were just a little more skilled, that means he can hit me three times on the same RIGHT spot." Eerrr. so "missing cuts" is a matter of skill? i can understand that for beginners. And it seems that they also miss without saying sorry because they don't know that it hurts!! For the less skilled, please buy me some elbow protectors next time (or beer :p)...

Meng: "But I hate it when people don't learn from their mistakes." This is absolutely goddamn right! And those people don't even know they're doing crap!! ...btw, it's also good/okay to say sorry afterwards.

Iwatekenshi-san....."No point in practicing with someone who doesn't know what kendo really is." Yeah...What is Kendo, really? :p

PEOPLE HITTING YOU WHEN YOUR BACK IS TURNED TO THEM
Kendo_chick... well, sometimes some sensei/senpai do that to make you do a sharper turn. And the hit is quite soft. BUT I dislike that because there's one jerk who has "Sensei Complex"... and he, during jikeiko suddenly switched to Uuchikomi-keiko when fighting against me. Then just as I turn, he hit hard on my Men! What I do when people turn too slow is, just chase them to the wall, and when they turn I'll surprise them by standing really close to them (without hitting them)

PEOPLE DOING BLOCKS ALL THE TIME
Blocking is, I would say, what beginners learn on their 1st lesson. Because when they practice Men cuts on each other without armour, blocking is what they've to do. Anybody with a shinai/bokken can block (including your mom!), but not every one of them know how to cut, which is what people should be doing with their sword.
However, all blockings expose unnecessary parts of your body. Usually I concentrate on my Do cuts when I fight against extensive blockers. Plus, my favourite Gyaku-do always works!!

PEOPLE LACKING ETIQUETTE
Watch and learn is what they should do. Do you notice those who prop up the wall etc. will not stay for too long? They just don't observe what the others are doing. I don't think they should be told 10 times to notice that. And I've heard so many times that "if you've a Japanese sensei he'd xxxx". Witnessing a few occations...Yeah, if you mess up with your Men himo when you line up, he'd kick your Men across the dojo!!

Meng: mmm....people taking off Men... probably for sensei's level would have mean "lost"... but many of the beginners didn't tie their Men himo properly.....and sometimes you do have to take Men off for a drink...

BAD MOTODACHI
Yeah. This also apply to Kirikaeshi..... when the receiver side block my cuts with their Kote in front of their Men-gane!!! Once I was pretty frustrated and start doing Do-kirikaeshi!!!

Mmmm.....too much complain today......

[KhawMengLee]

Meng: mmm....people taking off Men... probably for sensei's level would have mean "lost"... but many of the beginners didn't tie their Men himo properly.....and sometimes you do have to take Men off for a drink...

I think he means that one should be prepared to go the full hour without having to take off the men. If you tie it incorrectly then you have let yourself down(not counting beginners mistakes). Take it like a soldier in war, if you don't prepare your gear properly and it fails you in combat, you die.

As for drinking...yes, but only at the break. If you take off the men to drink during training then it shows unfitness.

heh, I didn't mean to say the men can't come off.:D

MENG

[JSchmidt]

"If you take off the men to drink during training then it shows unfitness."

No it doesnt..it shows lack of hydration, which is a completly different kettle of fish.
It's one of the few points of etiquette I disagree with (but follow)(Except on Saturdays, where the dreaded hangover might require water intake :P).
You can be the fittest person on earth, but if you aren't hydrated properly, you can burn out in a very short amount of time.
Pretty much any other sport, you will drink as much and as often you can. If you become thirsty, you are already starting to dehydrate.

Jakob

[James]

I'm with cklin + Jakob on this. First you have to differentiate between kendo which is clumsy, or lazy maybe. And kendo which is vindictive or the person is frustrated and just hacking away etc.


Which kind of kendoka do you hate? , I don't find a particularly enlightened way to start a thread.:(

If you a bemoaning that some people just aren't good at kendo and keep messing up and it pisses you off -Well DUH!
Kendo's difficult isn't it? If someone has a bad habit, do you really think that telling them once, they should be able to correct it?
Doing a lot of motodachi recently, if some one is doing something very obviously badly, I will mention it. BUT I don't expect them to be able to change it right away. I agree that it is frustrating, also it might sting like hell, but time and positive guidance will win.
Are people really pissed off because others don't learn as fast as them? cont...

[James]

Recently,trying to change a technique, I made a repeated mistake, I was aware of it, but grateful when someone came up to me (at the end of the lesson politely) and 'you do realise you are doing this?' (Thanks Jakob!)
There, that's all it takes.

If a beginner, who has a LOT ot of information coming at them, mind wonders, the ONLY thing you can do is tell them, but not too much... if they receive too many admonishments from different people, not only can it be confusing (it's a new environment) but also it is probably not good for their self-esteem. This isn't soft, just practical, If there is a discipline problem, believe me, Sensei will sort it out.

Many instances people KNOW they are doing wrong, but just can't correct it, maybe concentrating on footwork, their arms are a bit wild etc.
Just tell people politely, and leave it up to them. Worry more about your own kendo.

They don't deserve hatred. (I'm with the Jedi Council on that one).

[Vagabond]

What I most hate is people who intentionally raise their heads so you hit the men gane and break your shinai.

[cklin]

Mingshi wrote:
> Cklin, inner_cent:- That's very strange logic that you're
>applying ... Kendo has limited cuts on the 4 areas, and THEY
>cannot hit correctly, are THEIR FAULT.

I think you missed my point. Sure, it's their fault for missing, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to recognize or correct it -- whether they be just jerks or slow in learning. Whatever. My point is that if this is the case, it could be good for your kendo if you used these opportunities to learn to control your opponent so that EVEN IF they have no control over where their shinai lands, you're either (1) not getting hit, or (2) beating them to the strike.

>Cklin: you said, "...then if he were just a little more skilled, that
>means he can hit me three times on the same RIGHT spot."
>Eerrr. so "missing cuts" is a matter of skill?

No, but the fact that this person can hit the same spot three times in a row means s/he is consistent and you're consistently letting them do it. You gotta figure out a way of breaking 'em!

>For the less skilled, please buy me some elbow protectors next
>time (or beer )...

Personally, I'd go for the beer.

[stk]

Originally posted by Vagabond
What I most hate is people who intentionally raise their heads so you hit the men gane and break your shinai.

hoho!
that isn't entirely without risk :D
while on that topic, I seem to have heard/read that if someone raises their men gane to avoid/sabotage a men cut, the men gane becomes a valid target.. sounds reasonable.. but.. is it true.. ?

[kendokamax]

It is true

If you see clearly the movement of the head going backward as a sign to avoid the hit, they normaly give the point.

[ben]

mingshi: I think if someone repeatedly cuts the wrong part of your body, then it is justifiable to use mukaezuki as a way of letting them know that there was no opening. Most people get the point (hur hur) pretty quickly. If they persist, then treat them like they're doing kakrigeiko and you're motodachi - and block everything they do with kiri-(oops! sorry) uchi-otoshi. If they still don't get it, even after repeated verbal warnings, then well... "YOU might say cut 'do' on his ribcage. I couldn't POSSIBLY say cut "do' on his ribcage"... ;)

b

[Ares2907]

Originally posted by Vagabond
What I most hate is people who intentionally raise their heads so you hit the men gane and break your shinai.

I do this to people who are using far too much right hand in their men cuts. Nothing malicious, it's just the best way not to have your brain try and make its way out of your arse.
If people are consistently tilting their head back when you cut them, ask yourself why (starting with how right-handed you are cutting).

[Kuri]

Ares2907: Tilting your head back to negate the men cut is an interesting concept. Maybe, it will break the shinai ($$), but what is the risk that some splinters are going to end up embedded in your eyes?

It may be a poor cut, but you're putting yourself in a potentially dangerous position. Surely there must be another way.

[David J]

Originally posted by JSchmidt
"If you take off the men to drink during training then it shows unfitness."

No it doesnt..it shows lack of hydration, which is a completly different kettle of fish.
It's one of the few points of etiquette I disagree with (but follow)(Except on Saturdays, where the dreaded hangover might require water intake :P).
You can be the fittest person on earth, but if you aren't hydrated properly, you can burn out in a very short amount of time.
Pretty much any other sport, you will drink as much and as often you can. If you become thirsty, you are already starting to dehydrate.

Jakob

What is the etiquette regarding drinks bottles with straws? (The ones that look like more solid "movie drinks") With this you could have a quick drink and be back to keiko in a few seconds, men still on....??

<rei>

Dave

[alexpollijr]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vagabond
What I most hate is people who intentionally raise their heads so you hit the men gane and break your shinai.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I actually raise my face when someone is about to strike me with a brain-damaging move such as conan men. If your blow is right-handed, if it comes at a short distance and will strike below the nakayui, if it'll hurt me in some manner. I will most certainly raise my head a little so that the grille can absorb the shock that otherwise would ring my whole body. This has been taught to me by my sensei, which is a japanese 5th dan. He says that I'm not a dummy for you to practice at your whim, but that indeed I'm there to help you. He says that the possibility of brain damage exists and I believe on it. I'd rather have your shinai broken than my head.

In shiai, if people raise the face to avoid correct datotsu, or tilt it to the sides and the blow still barely lands, usually I've seen shimpan give the point.

[Confound]

I've seen most of the types I detest already, but here's one that was missed: the kendouka who CRIES in the middle of a lesson when offered inctruction, no matter how gentle.

There is one kid in my new dojo who cries continually. i don't even bother to talk to her now. she will bawl her eyes out if anyone even suggests something to make her technique better. bear in mind that this is an all female group (except a wishy washy pansy social science teacher who should count as a woman, and a really cool old man who hardly ever shows up), so there are no senseis screaming at her, and no one acting rough at all. in fact, there's a whole lot of crying.

i don't like crying, it always seemed juvenile, especially over physical injuries. crying over things that hurt you psychologically is different, it has a purpose, but crying because someone tells you your furikomi is not synchronized with your men strike is downright ridiculous. maybe once it might happen because you're having a frustrating day, but every DAY?!

the other kind of kendou who annoys me is just a kind of person who irritates me in general: someone who fakes injuries to get out of keiko. i have encountered a few people who will take any excuse to get out of practice. they will 'fall down' during keiko and cry for a few minutes, then theatrically limp over to a seat and sit like a vegetable for the rest of practice.

lastly: the guy who hits you outside the strike zones for fun. i have three people at my old dojo who do this. i don't know why they do it, but it hurts like hell sometimes. (try taking a tsuki-style thrust to the groin and tell me how you like it. wait, no, don't. i do not want to be liable. just trust me that it hurts, especially when the person is hitting you as hard as they can with an intent to cause pain.)

kendou isn't about inflicting pain, and people who bring their own sadistic whims into it annoy me. kendou isn't about power games either.

enough said, of my own irritations. i said 'amen' upon readong allex's first post, as well as meng's.

c

[JSchmidt]

Are you sure you shouldnt have gone to Prague, sitting in a smoky cheap winebar, whilst reading Kafka, instead of going to Japan :D

[Ares2907]

Originally posted by Kuri
Ares2907: Tilting your head back to negate the men cut is an interesting concept. Maybe, it will break the shinai ($$), but what is the risk that some splinters are going to end up embedded in your eyes?

It may be a poor cut, but you're putting yourself in a potentially dangerous position. Surely there must be another way.


Methinks you misunderstand. Apologies for my lack of clarity. I don't mean I pretend that I have a flip-top head, it's a subtle movement, just pushing the chin forward (or a slight raise of the chin depending on how you wear your men) so that the men-gane takes the impact instead of the top of the men.
No more dangerous than any other men strike, you just get to avoid being concussed. I'll take my aite's broken shinai over overwhelming dizziness and vomiting any day (found this out the hard way several years ago).

[Confound]

Mr. Schmidt, was that remark wholly necessary? Besides, I don't drink cheap wine.

c

[JSchmidt]

Probably not :D..but you strike me as being an angry young woman and the Noam Chomsky reference in the other thread,completed the picture :D.

Cheers,

Jakob

[ben]

Hey!Leave Noam alone! ;)

b

[Confound]

An ayn rand quote would be far better evidence of being an 'angry young woman'. I suspect that you tend to brand any thinking woman as an 'angry young woman' or a 'nasty old crone'. As such, I'll relegate your opinion to the list of 'banal oddities culled from obscure sources', and call it even.

c

[GMason]

Come on people !!!!

This thread is starting to sound more like a winge page than anything else.

As alot have you professed in the past Kendo is character building surely, building ones character intails taking a couple of hits off target, and giving beginners a little bit of room for error.

If someone is being an Arse, put up with it for the 3 minutes you have to keiko with them and move on. Don't tsuki them and think that will sort it out.

These problems listed on this thread seem "par for the course" to me. I've been hit off target yes it hurts but that's life. Yes I've had people cut men on me and I've felt like I was going to pass out. But again you can put up with it. You shouldn't have to but you can. Later you just nicley say that the cut was very good but they just need to work on the tenuchi (sp?). Again it's not a matter of starting a list and looking for revenge later (Not that I'm saying anyone is doing that.)

Sorry to rant...... I know I'm probably going to get flamed for this but I've been reading this thread since it started and thought I would put my couple of cents worth in.

[alexpollijr]

Mason, you are sure bound to be a saint.

I can't just suck it in and walk away. Not at all times. One missed blow per practice is ok. Everyone does it now and then, even sensei.

But to keep a steady mark of four or so grueling blows to very unprotected areas is absurd, I can't take it. I tell people but they believe that they are right. Therefore, I resort to tsuki and yokomen, which, mind you, are actually valid targets

:D

[GMason]

I havn't quite attained Sainthood yet I still have a couple of miracle's to perform first :D

Hmmmm.......

Still seems a bit harsh to me. I understand that you want people to keep on cutting of Kote etc.... but surely a kind word is better than a Tskui (God!! I've just re-read that and I sounds like a real left wing liberal, I'll turning into a tree hugging hippy soon
:p ) I'll put it another way, I think telling someone and then showing them what they are doing wrong would be better.

But having said that I suppose I have never had anyone who blatently ignores me and carries on doing what they want.

Having said all that, and have preached on about turning the other cheek the one thing that get's on my nerves (only a little bit :cool: ) is when people chin you under with the left hand after a men cut.

[stk]

"What type of Kendoka do you particularly HATE practising with?"

The type with really long and sharp toenails!
those things can do more damage than all the missed cuts in the world :D

I've never really had any of the problems other people talk about here.. yet.. :rolleyes:

[kendo_chick]

stk - The type with really long and sharp toenails!
those things can do more damage than all the missed cuts in the world.

Dont' I know it!!! I know at least one person (who shall remain nameless) that does that! ARGH!

[Old Warrior]

"What type of Kendoka do you particularly HATE practising with?"

We rotate after about 3 sets of whatever exercise is designated, so the amount of time you spend with any one person is not that long. I will admit to prefering certain partners for kirakaeshi and disliking others. But, my criteria is simply that I like to give and receive with spirit and a lackadaisical attitude spoils the exercise. I'm in no position to comment upon someone else's skill level. I don't even mind it when I get whacked, as long as my partner is trying.

[PhilMcLaughlin]

Mingshi

We all miss the target and hit the opponent sometimes - it happens

If youre vulnerable buy an elbow protector (i use one on the right)

Getting hit on the elbow can also be due to not wanting to be cut doh

If youre fighting someone trying to hit doh just raise your arms and let them have the do - its what the armour is for - maybe they learn maybe not - it is jigeiko rather than shiai

if youre really stuck then ask the sensei "how can i avoid being hit on the elbow, for example when i fence X" - thats a not very subtle hint nicely phrased to get his attention (and or instruction)

hope it helps

[Foreigner]

[QUOTE=Confound]An ayn rand quote would be far better evidence of being an 'angry young woman'. I suspect that you tend to brand any thinking woman as an 'angry young woman' or a 'nasty old crone'. As such, I'll relegate your opinion to the list of 'banal oddities culled from obscure sources', and call it even.

Wasn't a chimp named Noam Chimpsky after Chomsky claimed it did not have the cognitive skills to use language?;)

[Foreigner]

[QUOTE=Foreigner][QUOTE=Confound]An ayn rand quote would be far better evidence of being an 'angry young woman'. I suspect that you tend to brand any thinking woman as an 'angry young woman' or a 'nasty old crone'. As such, I'll relegate your opinion to the list of 'banal oddities culled from obscure sources', and call it even.

Ooops replied to the wrong post....oh well alls well with Ayn;)