Copy Cat

[John W]

I have just started to notice that some of my students are copying my moves!

Ok it happens but...

Last night I started going for kote and then quickly changed and went for men and my student did the EXACT same thing!!

Any idea's about how to stop this from happening? Stupid question maybe, but I find it to be a pain in the butt!

[hwarangdo]

wow, you invented move?

[Cypher]

Uh....I think he means that he would prefer his students to take the initiative on their own, rather than mindlessly apeing what they see exactly...
What's the point otherwise?

[John W]

wow, you invented move?


No mate, I mean they ARE kendo techniques but it's just the way in which they are executed.

[litige]

then it's good no?

[slidercrank]

I have just started to notice that some of my students are copying my moves!

If they are your students, then you surely must be their sensei. Kendo is learnt through imitation; so if they don't copy what you do, then what are they supposed to do? Do what you say, but not what you do?

Students are supposed to concentrate on men-uchi in ji-keiko with sensei. Sensei of course will hit (or tap) student's kote, dou, or even hit debana- or suriage-men, but only for the purpose of instruction. If sensei starts doing some moves on the student solely for the purpose of hitting an ippon-quality hit, then the keiko will have ceased to be an instructional occasion, and become a shiai. At that point, expect the student to also "degenerate" down to the level of shiai play and do whatever that he sees you do.

[mystic_kendoka]

this is just stupid... im sorry, but that is how i feel...

[John W]

this is just stupid... im sorry, but that is how i feel...


Well...who cares what you feel.

As for the other responses, yes true, kendo is learned through imitation. But at what point should students break thier mold and go out on thier own

[moocow65]

Well...who cares what you feel.

As for the other responses, yes true, kendo is learned through imitation. But at what point should students break thier mold and go out on thier own
I'm quite liberal when it comes to kendo. I used gedan alot when I was 3-kyu. Jodan when I was 1-kyu, and started nito because I just felt like it. Many sensei would tell me that my form was bad, or my footwork was bad, or my kendo in general was not the "proper" way. But I began developing my own style of kendo when I was around 12 or so, and I had my strategical reasons as to why I did kendo this way. As long as a kenshi understands the basics and his/her own style of kendo does not branch off too far from the basics, then he/she can do whatever they want. I personally don't think they should "go out on their own," however, if they're your students you should be there every step of the way improving their style of kendo. That's the responsbilities of being an intructor/sensei; you have to make them better. And that's exactly why I'll be 3-dan forever. 4-dan where I live means a sensei. I don't want to make other people better, I only want to make myself better. Hahahah. Oh yeah, one more thing... they're supposed to copy you, you're the instructor! If you're the one teaching them, then you're gonna be teaching them your style of kendo to some degree. The particular waza you mentioned seemed to me like a simple feint. Alot of people do that... it's not a big deal.

[taiwnezboi]

like everyone else said, you have to copy higher-ranking people's techniques.. they've refined their techniques much more than you so if you do it like them you're improving yourself.. I try to copy the best technique from each of my instructors

[John W]

mmm.... yes I have to agree with these comments.

I suppose we all copy each other and whether it is from books, magazines or from sensei it does not matter... as long as we improve!!!

[hyuna]

at what point should students break thier mold and go out on thier own

Think "shu - ha - ri".

You are not even supposed to question the mold, much less try to go out on your own, until "ha" -- they say like 5 dan, or maybe 4 dan.

"Students," per se, are never supposed to break the mold. By the time they can even question the mold, they are not "students" anymore (except in the sense that everyone is always a student).

[mingshi]

"When you copy one, I'd call it plagiarizing. When you copy ten, I'd call it referencing. When you copy 1000, I'd call it learning."

Someone made this excuse to copy homework from the others... when I was at school (hmmm... such nostalgia...)

Speaking from a design/creative perspective, there is nothing hasn't been done before. With 50 years of modern kendo, can you really "invent" a new move (note: non-anime moves)?

You learn what you see. Cloths coming out from the same dying tank end up having the same colour. So under the same dojo, copy the correct ones and study them, but don't make the same mistakes what other people make. In order to improve I suppose you need A. a good Sensei, and/or B. a lot of high-quality people to practice with. That's why personally I like traveling to different dojo.

Wouldn't it be nice when someone tells you, "AAaah, your kendo reminds me of ______ (insert your favourite senpai/sensei) !" :D

[John W]

Perhaps there is more to learn from an internal point of view??

I suppose this cannot be copied so easily!!

[James]

John W be pleased they're copying you. That's their job.

[PediGree]

yes THAT HAPPENS!!!! i'm not a teacher but some people copy my way of fighting......and sometimes the kiai....(weeeeird), i get realy pissed when people copy my strategies.....but i copied some of my strategies from my sensei as well, so i can't complain, but copying my kiai is really.....weird...

[Alicia]

hahaha, john, if i'd known it annoyed you, i'd copy you more. lets see, what else do you do...
but seriously, the reason we do similar moves to you, (well i know you probably mean the twins more, not me), is generally because A) you've done them on us and it works, or B) you've told us about them as a kind of 'tricks of the trade' thing(NB:the kaeshi do you always do) - and much appreciated this is too. please take it as a compliment if any of us copy something you do- speaking for myself, i really admire your kendo
but really, should it matter whether what we do is the same as you? the fact that we are doing some sort of strike means that you may have to change what you are doing, does it matter if the particular strike is the same as the one you are doing, its still going to affect what you do. seems to me, that you're making assumptions about how people will react when you attack, and that what is annoying you is not that it is the same as you, but that its not what you expected.
keep up the new ideas for us to copy eh
alicia

[Yowai]

People copying and following a nidan? Must be a small town. Don't let them develop too much bad form.

[Alicia]

i was under the impression that in kendo we all learn off each other, regardless of age or rank. if someone has something to show me or something that i admire and want to copy, i will do so, whether they are 7th kyu, ni dan or 8th dan

[lancerwilliams]

mmm.... yes I have to agree with these comments.

I suppose we all copy each other and whether it is from books, magazines or from sensei it does not matter... as long as we improve!!!

I would consider it a compliment that my students were beginning to use my own styles effectively against me or anyone else.