naive question about chudan no kamae

[bobmaxine]

If two kendo practitioners face each other in chudan, with the tips of their swords just overlapping, and these two practitioners were perfect technicians in that they exhibit perfect kamae by having their sword tips at the centre line;

Is this scenario by definition impossible? If they are both centred don't they both need that real estate at the centre line, so if asked to take chudan would there be some kind of titanic pushing struggle going on for centre?

I ask this as a beginner who was asked to take this position before starting a totally basic exercise (facing a senior) and didn't know quite what to do... we were just doing basics but I almost couldn't get past this question in my head.

[Halcyon]

Taking the center is a bit more complex and subtle than merely having your shinai occupy the geometric centerline between yourself and your opponent. If you push against your opponent's shinai too much, then you set yourself up for exposing your kote, for example. Some people prefer to have a soft kamae, others will try to stiff-arm you for the centerline. Which is better? You'll just have to see for yourself through endless practice.

[DCPan]

Take a look at this diagram and enjoy the headache....

http://shinai.blogspot.com/2010/08/natural-stance-kamae.html

[Kendoka]

Well if one of the shinais has the centre, the other one must be a little off centre. Controlling that centre should be one of your aims when in keiko. If you are still a beginner, then don't worry too much about, but do practice it. After a bit of experience and some more learning, you'll get it for sure.

[Shinsengumi77]

The center moves constantly.

[jjcruiser]

If they are both centred don't they both need that real estate at the centre line, so if asked to take chudan would there be some kind of titanic pushing struggle going on for centre?

I think the question you've asked is at the essence of kendo and I don't pretend to fully grasp it. But the way I think of it, yes. Just not all physical pushing.

[rfoxmich]

To quote Musashin in Go Rin No Sho "You must study this deeply"

[Manuka]

If two kendo practitioners face each other in chudan, with the tips of their swords just overlapping, and these two practitioners were perfect technicians in that they exhibit perfect kamae by having their sword tips at the centre line;

Is this scenario by definition impossible?
Exactly, one must be off center by an inch, both by 1/2 inch, or something in between


If they are both centred don't they both need that real estate at the centre line, so if asked to take chudan would there be some kind of titanic pushing struggle going on for centre?

I ask this as a beginner who was asked to take this position before starting a totally basic exercise (facing a senior) and didn't know quite what to do... we were just doing basics but I almost couldn't get past this question in my head.

So the person who does not have center must do something to regain center; move feet 2 inches to shift center, increase pressure, but as Paul noted whatever YOU do Aite will also make a change to retain center and will also look at every change you make as an opportunity to attack - as Aite already has center.

Isn't kendo fun

[bobmaxine]

Hey thanks! At least it wasn't such a dumb question after all...

[Big One]

I had to admit that during the last 9-10 years of learning, I could only clearly see the centerline for only one time. I try to repeat what I did at that time but can't.

[b8amack]

I had to admit that during the last 9-10 years of learning, I could only clearly see the centerline for only one time. I try to repeat what I did at that time but can't.

psst... it's in the center

[hugo]

It seems as though, with all of Kendo, the answer could be: "do things the proper way until told otherwise." We teach beginners to stand squared-off with the center at dead-center because it helps the beginner understand what the standard is. As the blog posted above points out, you can in fact aim your kensen towards the opponent's left eye, but the danger is that your men may become exposed if overdone.

To tell a personal story, my sensei introduced this way of slightly angling the kensen to our dojo several years ago. Because I was only 5-Kyu or 4-Kyu at the time, I didn't have a strong enough grasp of the center or shibori to use this non-standard stance well when cutting. Now, with a better grasp of both of those elements, I can use it on occasion. However, this is because our sensei drilled us in knowing the standard. Even if 8 different sensei tell you 8 (or 10) different things, you need to know where the deviation begins from.