Kendo or Iaido, that's the question...

[another newbie]

Hi out there...

I'm wondering if I should start Kendo or Iaido. However, after scanning over a few books & some nights spent before Google as well as looking through this forum there are still some questions left.

I often found quotations like "Kendo and Iaido are like two wheels on the same axis (like the two wings of a bird)", etc. -- you can't perform well in one without having integrated the other. Moreover, there are nearly as many statements that "you can do proper Kendo without knowing Iaido, bot NOT vice versa" and there are threads where different opinions are given on starting kendo or iaido first or both in parallel. Shure, that's all personal opinions, but I think 99% of you know better about this than me.
If I got it right, Kendo is much more physically oriented and sparring has the advantage of developing a realistic timing as well as cultivating a kind of "fighting spirit" under stress. Also there seem to be regular (obligatory?) tournaments but some iaidoka mention that efficient handling (in order to score) of the shinai tends not to be "the way of the sword".

I am not a very competetive guy and from what I read up to now I think I favour the spiritual aspect of Iaido having myself as opponent, to find improvement without sparring (thus comparing)... Well you might argue: " Start Kendo in order to develop that side..." :wink:

Anyway, I would be happy about some thoughts and/or remarks on this, as well as answers to a few questions:

1) Even if personally tending towards Iaido, might it be better to start with Kendo for technical aspects (timing, distance)? Or makes it also sense to do Iaido as a standalone?
2) How strong is the competetive aspect in Kendo really?
3) How important is refinement of technical details in Kendo? Or is it more important to be "efficient"?
4) I'm rather old (turning 33 this year) -- too old to begin?

Thanks for your invested time & hope to meet you in dojo soon...

Niels

[R A Sosnowski]

[SNIP]

Anyway, I would be happy about some thoughts and/or remarks on this, as well as answers to a few questions:

1) Even if personally tending towards Iaido, might it be better to start with Kendo for technical aspects (timing, distance)? Or makes it also sense to do Iaido as a standalone?
2) How strong is the competetive aspect in Kendo really?
3) How important is refinement of technical details in Kendo? Or is it more important to be "efficient"?
4) I'm rather old (turning 33 this year) -- too old to begin?

Thanks for your invested time & hope to meet you in dojo soon...

Niels

1. Watch a class or two of each. Get a sense of what you want to do. I started with Iaido and kept with it (currently San-dan). Shortly there after I began Kendo, but did not stick with it after relocating two years ago (made Sho-dan) as my interest and available time had been waining; however, I did begin Naginata shortly after Kendo, and stuck with it (currently San-dan). For me, Naginata fills the role that Kendo would have. Looking back, if I did not have Naginata, then I cannot imagine doing Iaido without Kendo.

2. Depends on the Dojo and the Sensei.

3. As important as in any other Budo.

4. No, you are not too old.

HTH. As always, YMMV.

[Khabbi]

Why not do both ? or more ? "do all the do's you can do" :smiley:

[tyler]

heyo - i've been doing both kendo and iai and there's no doubt that they go together well and complement each other, but as for having to take both to get 'true' sword training etc.., i'd say nah. My limited understanding of it is that after kendo got revived after the second world war, they added a western sporting element with points and a court size etc.. and since then competition has gained significant importance. Its fair to say that kendo competition gets really intense, but most people are very courteous and don't lose sight of the goal which is self improvement and empowering others to work on themselvs.
Apparently there are a lot of sensei's who advocate not paying too much attention to competition and focusing on everyday practice. I was tought that competition can be useful and fun as a way of seeing how you perform under different or more stressful circumbstances. Its also a great excuse to play new people and get experience. It really lets you know the things you have to work on, so if you view it with a healthy attitude, why not compete? Its fierce because everyone does their damndest to beat everyone else, but in my experience with kendo around southern Ontario in Canada, everyone has been exceptionally well mannered.
Iai is done solo, but again i've heard it said that kendo is really about yourself and your own mentality. For me, the good days have been the one's where i can sort of let go and work towards striking with abandon and not analysing. The bad days (and there's way more of them) are plagued with overanalysis and frustration. So even though you're sparring with others, its still about your mentality and technique, same as iai, where the opponent is imaginary.
Lastly, I've seen some iai competitions and they're pretty intense in their own way too :wink: .

-tyler

[Isaac]

I've been practicing Iaido for about 2 months now as my first 'martial art', and I've been having a blast. I was originally looking into starting kendo first because it looked like more fun being somewhat physical with the sparring and whatnot, but I have found that I can satisfy that yearning to 'spar' with the kitachi partner kata in MJER Iai. These are rather rigid if practiced in the dojo, but great fun if practiced with a friend outside the dojo...:ko:

As for whether you would gain more from learning kendo before iaido, I would say no, but that is just my opinion. I have never done kendo, so really have no facts, but a shinai seems quite different from an iaito or bokken to me. As for the concepts of maai (distance) and timing, maai should be discussed by an iai sensei when performing the partner bokken kata. The timing can both be aquired in the dojo in kitachi partner kata and outside if you are a bit more aggressive with your practice, again with a friend.

So, I too say do both if you can, but if not, do as Raymond said and watch a few classes of both then decide. Good luck and have fun! :cool:

[Isaac]

Sorry, that's katachi, not kitachi. Lol...
Also, a wonderful book on iai and everything about it (including philosophy and all the waza)is Flashing Steel by Pellman and Shimabukuro sensei. I recommend checking that out to see if iaido fits you. :smiley:

[chidokan]

pick one and do it for about a year to get to grips with the basics of one... it doesnt really matter which one to be honest. After that if you have time do the other.
If you are not competitively minded you should try for a traditional kendo dojo rather than the sport oriented type. You can tell these apart quite easily by the style of practise....sporty ones in general tend to avoid kendo kata unless there are gradings due and there will be a lot more shiai type practise. In the dojo I go to there are a mix of ideas, sport and trad, so watch carefully and ask questions.
Iaido dojos can be similar in regards to how they conduct themselves. Trad dojos will again avoid training for the upcoming competitions and discussing them, and will instead focus on overall improvements over a period of time without worrying about gradings. Impress people with your standard on the floor, not with bits of paper.

[Stimpson J. Cat]

I often found quotations like "Kendo and Iaido are like two wheels on the same axis (like the two wings of a bird)", etc.
The Samurai of old would have studied both, well really kenjitsu, from which modern kendo was derived, as well as many other things, but you're probably not a professional soldier like they were, and if you are you fight with a rifle instead of a sword anyway, so you really don't need to study all the ways you might be involved in a life-or-death confrontation with a sword. A fair percentage of high-level Iaido people are also mid-to-high level in kendo, but certainly not all.


If I got it right, Kendo is much more physically oriented and sparring has the advantage of developing a realistic timing as well as cultivating a kind of "fighting spirit" under stress. Also there seem to be regular (obligatory?) tournaments both true, though I don't believe the tournaments are strictly required, you would probably be "strongly encouraged" to participate after some point. I haven't done much Iai, but from what I have done, I would also say that the more physical nature of kendo will build a much higher level of general fitness, so if you are looking for some interesting excercise, like I was when I started, that may lean you more toward kendo

but some iaidoka mention that efficient handling (in order to score) of the shinai tends not to be "the way of the sword". There are some differences in handling, most of which arise out of the fact that the shinai is lighter and (usually) somewhat longer. It also depends on the sensei, some advocate treating and handling the shinai like a live sword, some focus more on competition. What I think of as "The way of the sword" would encompass both, as well as cutting practice (tamishigiri), which some sensei advocate and some don't, both in kendo and iaido.



I am not a very competetive guy and from what I read up to now I think I favour the spiritual aspect of Iaido having myself as opponent, to find improvement without sparring (thus comparing
I know somebody who studies multiple Japanese arts, but avoids kendo for exactly that reason, you would not be alone in making that choice




1) Even if personally tending towards Iaido, might it be better to start with Kendo for technical aspects (timing, distance)? Or makes it also sense to do Iaido as a standalone?
2) How strong is the competetive aspect in Kendo really?
3) How important is refinement of technical details in Kendo? Or is it more important to be "efficient"?
4) I'm rather old (turning 33 this year) -- too old to begin?


1) As Isaac mentioned, you can address some of these issues in partner kata (which kendo also has by the way, to a much lesser extent), but it isn't really the same as having somebody coming at you with an unpredictable attack full speed and with full intention of striking you, on the other hand, if you are only doing Iai, anything past what you use in kata probably doesn't matter
2) depends on the sensei and somewhat on whether you are doing kendo or kumdo (the Korean version of kendo, which seems to tend more toward the competition aspect)
3) they aren't that different as I think of them, the technical details of the form grew out of combat and duelling, you don't want to be "inefficent" in terms of wasting motion/energy/time when somebody is swinging a sword at your head. Even going entirely to the competitive side, you won't score a point if you land a cut with bad form.
4) I started kendo at 35+ (not saying any more ;) ) look for posts on these boards by somebody with the handle "Old Warrior" he recently started kumdo in his 50s (he's also chock-full of good questions BTW)

I apologize for the length of this, guess I got a little carried away :rolleyes:

[another newbie]

Back online and SEVEN posts in a newbie's thread -- a warm "thank you" to you all !!! Thanks as well for your detailed reflections & answers. I already learned a lot in digging my way through this forum, but your opinions were "the little dot on the i" (iai?! ...fits well, doesn't it? :evolved:), as you say in German.

Thanks specifically to Raymond, Tim, and Stimpson for their advice on what to look for in dojo inspection -- I will definitely make good use of your input !

Stimpson: No worries about length, it's just perfect!

Isaac: heard much about Flashing Steel and it is on my "to read" list. At the moment I am reading Iai - The art of drawing the sword by Darrell Craig. Though it seems a little out of date, I enjoy it very much...

_____________________
Niels

[Jamie]

Hi,

What I initially did was try bot Iaido and Kendo for a month to see if I liked either. There are no rules to what you study really, I would say give both a go and then decided what you enjoy, you may find neither is for you, you prefer one over the other or you enjoy both if its the latter then study both.

Jamie.

[chidokan]

just noticed your location...there is an EXCELLENT iaido teacher at Berne University, (I think its Berne...) originally from Kochi. The choice has just been made for you, go there, you will not be disappointed. :smiley:

[bwaichu]

The answer is fairly simple:

1) Do the one you think you will enjoy most and practice at.

or

2) Do the one with the best available instructor.

There are only a handful of qualified Iaido instructors in the US, so it's tougher to fine good sensei.

Brian

[Wes Nazo]

I started both about 6 months ago. I really don't see why you wouldn't take them at the same time if you're fortunate to have the opportunity to take both. I don't think I would have advanced as fast in both if I had taken them seperately.

[Sepiraph]

Why not do both if it is possible as other have suggested? I practice Kendo now and I also want to take up Iaido soon (this summer).

[GoldenShinai]

Hi out there...

I'm wondering if I should start Kendo or Iaido. However, after scanning over a few books & some nights spent before Google as well as looking through this forum there are still some questions left.

I often found quotations like "Kendo and Iaido are like two wheels on the same axis (like the two wings of a bird)", etc. -- you can't perform well in one without having integrated the other. Moreover, there are nearly as many statements that "you can do proper Kendo without knowing Iaido, bot NOT vice versa" and there are threads where different opinions are given on starting kendo or iaido first or both in parallel. Shure, that's all personal opinions, but I think 99% of you know better about this than me.
If I got it right, Kendo is much more physically oriented and sparring has the advantage of developing a realistic timing as well as cultivating a kind of "fighting spirit" under stress. Also there seem to be regular (obligatory?) tournaments but some iaidoka mention that efficient handling (in order to score) of the shinai tends not to be "the way of the sword".

I am not a very competetive guy and from what I read up to now I think I favour the spiritual aspect of Iaido having myself as opponent, to find improvement without sparring (thus comparing)... Well you might argue: " Start Kendo in order to develop that side..." :wink:

Anyway, I would be happy about some thoughts and/or remarks on this, as well as answers to a few questions:

1) Even if personally tending towards Iaido, might it be better to start with Kendo for technical aspects (timing, distance)? Or makes it also sense to do Iaido as a standalone?
2) How strong is the competetive aspect in Kendo really?
3) How important is refinement of technical details in Kendo? Or is it more important to be "efficient"?
4) I'm rather old (turning 33 this year) -- too old to begin?

Thanks for your invested time & hope to meet you in dojo soon...

Niels

In order to "master the sword" you will need both Kendo and Iaido, but it all depends on how serious you are and what you wish to become. Iaido teaches the movements and strategy of sword fighting, and "does wonders for the blood pressure" says my sensai. But Iaido teaches the weight, and techniques of the sword. If you were lucky as i was, you may find a Kendo/Iaido class in which both are taught in the same two hour class (other classes may do this, i do not know) but it is fun and has a perfect balance of hard work and spiritual growth. as for your age, you are never to old to take a martial art :old_man:

[mingshi]

I started both about 6 months ago. I really don't see why you wouldn't take them at the same time if you're fortunate to have the opportunity to take both. I don't think I would have advanced as fast in both if I had taken them seperately.
What's good holding two wheels but no car to drive?? :rolleyes:

"Both" only helps after you have a slightly more solid foundation of what you are doing. Yes both are holding the Japanese sword - but for most beginners who don't even have a relaxed kamae, additional information is only doing to give you more sweat...

Only if you have a foundation then you can build things on top. If you know how to stand properly and cut, then you are going to enjoy more of what you are doing. That's when the two wheels comes together.

From my limited training time spent in the dojo, I see only about 1% of the people can be proficient in both at the same level. Some people just don't have the heart, talent, click, or whatever reason to get good at both.

[chidokan]

Stimpson, have you had time to visit a dojo yet? Please let us know how you get on....and your thoughts on what you expected compared to what you got. I hope you managed to get to visit the Berne dojo, otherwise you have really missed out!

[another newbie]

Hi chidokan,

I think you refer to me (another newbie), NOT to Stimpson... Well, I hope you speak of Beat, Sensei at the Sakura Dojo at Berne, because that's where I started training Iaido in late 2004...

http://www.sakura-dojo.ch

I am more than happy with it -- great sport, great people!!! And he REALLY is a gifted teacher, as far as I can judge from the beginner's eyes... At the moment I am rather busy finishing my thesis, so I only have the time to go once a week, but I hope to start a PostDoc at the Royal Holloway in London this summer & already have the first contacts for a dojo over there...

Hope to meet you one day at a workshop...

Cheers Niels

[chidokan]

I just looked at the top of the thread, sorry!
Beat sensei is not the person I was thinking of.....some years ago there was a Japanese lecturer there from the Kochi dojo, one of Takeshima senseis' students. He would be around 6/7th dan I think, although he didnt talk about his grade..... at this point I hope I have the right University! Now I will have to check with a friend of mine...old age is catching me up....
You should be ok for Muso Shinden ryu in London, I am a lot further north though, about 3 hours by train, although fairly easy to reach as its a main stop! You are more than welcome to visit, though I practise MJER, not MSR. There are some differences but they are easy to show. At your level this would not matter as you will still be trying to get basics correct. My advice is to travel around as there are a lot of different iaido ryu here in the UK, from the south coast up to and including Scotland. Keep an open mind and 'steal' the best bits of other peoples iaido, and you will learn a lot very quickly. There are usually seminars advertised, so if you are bored at weekends there should always be somewhere to go!

[another newbie]

Hi Tim,

had a chat with Beat Sensei yesterday... He told something about Japanese teachers & Swiss that trained in Japan that are or were in Bern (though I don't remember the names), but at the University of Bern, there is only a Kendo division:

http://www.kendounibern.ch/

Might be that there is no Iaido anymore, or that you mixed up the university... As far as I know Basel is quite active in Iaido...

http://www.iaido-basel.ch/ MJER
http://www.iaido.ch/ MSR

Bye Niels

[chidokan]

Ok I admit defeat... I will have to ask a friend of mine, the memory has gone! The Japanese guy was a lecturer at the university and taught iaido in his own time. He was there for quite a few years, from the Kochi dojo, teaching MJER. I hate it when I forget names. :mad: I'll write again when I get the name.

[kosh]

In my own opinion, it may be an advantage to do both, but of course this is up to you and I suppose the time you have availble. I am currently studying Iaido (MJER) 3rd Kyu and I have recently took up Kendo again. I have realised that through my continuing development of Iaido I am begining to feel the need to explore the 'kenjitsu' side of the art, however by doing Kendo provides me with a feeling of testing one self against the other, and I don't mean that in a 'sporting' way. Its just that Kendo is not prearranged like Iai (except in Kendo kata, which is Kenjitsu or two person arranged forms).

As we do not practice Kenjitsu (Kumitachi forms) at my club, Kendo, at least for know fulfills that 'combative' element to swordsmanship. It was Haruna Sensei that said "Kendo and Iaido should be practiced together. The two are the wheels of a cart. If one wheel is missing the cart falls". Though if you are not interested in the Kendo, because of its competitiveness, and you still wish to develop a competitive edge you can still do this in your Iai. For example there are Taikeis you can participate in which adds to the intensity of performing Seitei under pressure. Doing Kenjitsu also helps in that respect.

[neit]

i much prefer iaido, most likely because i am not really a competitive person. and i like the feel of bokken and iaito rather than shinai. if iaido was not available. i'd probably still stay in kendo though. nice people, good atmosphere, fun activity.

[matt_bedford]

I've been doing iaido for about a year now, and i've just started kendo. And because of that, the circle is complete. I feel each have their advantages and specialities, but they really go hand in hand. As a sensei from houston said (can't remeber his name, sorry) 'doing iaido without kendo is like wearing a tuxedo and not going out' yes, another metaphor as to why you should do both.

Also there are things such as time and expenses to conider. do you have a lot of free time, because i really think doing both arts would be very good for you.
stay cool :cool:

[Ninjujinkaku]

Iaido and kendo dont have much to do with eachother or completing a circle if you want that take koryu kenjutsu in which you will learn with a real sword how to use combative techs in a sword fight. Iaido is the way of drawing and cutting it has nothing to do with kendo in the big picture. Its easier to focus on one thing in life as well. Not saying its a bad idea but it doesnt complete a circle or anything to make you a better sword fighter for that you would need kenjutsu with your kendo. To be a master at iai you would have to take iaijutsu in my opinion otherwise you have lost much of the real reason for iai as well as the combat application.

[KenShi_JoB]

Iaido and kendo dont have much to do with eachother or completing a circle if you want that take koryu kenjutsu in which you will learn with a real sword how to use combative techs in a sword fight. Iaido is the way of drawing and cutting it has nothing to do with kendo in the big picture. Its easier to focus on one thing in life as well. Not saying its a bad idea but it doesnt complete a circle or anything to make you a better sword fighter for that you would need kenjutsu with your kendo. To be a master at iai you would have to take iaijutsu in my opinion otherwise you have lost much of the real reason for iai as well as the combat application.

I think iai can teach tenouchi, hasuji, how to cut into the targets, different type of cuts/trusts to kendoka. Kendo can teach maai, timing, seme, etc. to iaidoka. You can do only one of these arts, but if you have time to do both it will help each other in many aspect. To say it doesn't have much to do with eachother is a bit untrue IMHO.

[another newbie]

To Ninjujinkaku: (member.php?u=2789)

There you got me !!! Kenjutsu would have been something interesting, still is & gets more and more as I progress (still a beginner though) with my iai...

But there are not many dojos -- you have to be lucky to live near one.

Grüezi from Switzerland Niels

[Solinde]

Iaido and kendo dont have much to do with eachother or completing a circle

(...)

To be a master at iai you would have to take iaijutsu in my opinion otherwise you have lost much of the real reason for iai as well as the combat application.

Well...the first statement is just plain wrong. Iaido and kendo have the same origin so of course they have a lot to do with each other! Also, ZNKR (seitei) iai was made to link together kendo and koryu iaido, so to just say that there is no "completing a circle" in doing all of these seem a little...well, weird.

Concerning the second statement, I'd say that this depends on if your talking about an iaido master or an iaijutsu master. As simple as that. Iaido is not here to teach us to do well in combat, actually it is not very combat-oriented at all. Anyone doing iaido to become a master in combat is obviously in the wrong place/dojo.

[chidokan]

I cant wait any longer for Charles Mahan to chip in.... :wink: iaido and iaijitsu etc etc are interchangeable words that are commonly used by my teacher, although they have a VERY subtle meaning change in the way he uses them, which will take far too long to explain here.
You need to understand that kendo and iaido will eventually lead to the same goal, ie mastery of the sword, although both take entirely different routes. Kendo begins with speed and ends on technique, iaido the other way round, which is why you hear so many boring arguments about which is better, who would win etc.... the sad thing is that so many techniques have been taken away from modern kendo, which turns it more to a sport than what it was originally, which was a 'safe' way of fencing. I would like to see a book published on old techniques before the old guys disappear, anyone know of one out there in English?

[splice]

I would say that the difference between Iaido and Iaijutsu is much less than people think, to the point of being nearly meaningless. The art I practice, Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu, is called alternatively iaido, iaijutsu, iaiheiho and probably other names, depending on the branch and dojo. In truth, it's Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu. It doesn't matter what you try to classify it as, the ryu is the ryu is the ryu.

There would be a definite difference between kendo and kenjutsu, however. That is because kendo is a well defined sport/martial art, not a classification of arts. As for the rest of classifications, be it kenjutsu, batto, iai, etc., it really is whatever your sensei (or his, or his sensei's sensei, etc., back to soke) calls it.

Kendo and iaido are complementary, but that doesn't mean you need to do both, or that you won't benefit in similar ways from a different art. For example, while I don't do kendo, I consider kumitachi practice good to learn about maai, timing, and all that good stuff. It just needs to be done right and regularly enough.

[Ninjujinkaku]

Kendo lacks combat application that kenjutsu has so if you want to actually know the art of the sword fully it would be better to take that then iaido. Iaido is a diff art and is not needed to master sword fighting, they teach you how to draw and return in kenjutsu, also in kenjutsu when they draw and return they dont touch the blade at all.

[Hayamaru]

Hi there everyone,

I havent tried/seen either but i do have one question. Is there any web site that can show me all the dojos in my state or something of that nature im having issues finding one?

Your info. will be much appriciated:wink:

[Charles Mahan]

No there really isn't. The good news is, there's a fair amount of stuff to be had in Colorado. Particularly around Boulder and Denver. Whereabouts are you?

[Kaoru]

No there really isn't. The good news is, there's a fair amount of stuff to be had in Colorado. Particularly around Boulder and Denver. Whereabouts are you?

That's true. Charles-san, can you please send me a list of what you have, if you don't mind? I'd like to see if you have stuff I don't have. I'd like to collect more for my Colorado list, if possible. You can PM me on swordforum as well as here now.(I just joined. Needed a place for resources and asking questions if I need to, since e-budo is still down.)

Anyway, Hayamaru-san, please give us your location, ok? We can help you better that way. Thanks!

Kaoru

[Charles Mahan]

Well...

Toby Threadgill-sensei is in Evergreen, Colorado http://www.shinyokai.com (http://www.shinyokai.com)

Shibata Sensei is the head of the Chikurin-ha branch of the Heki-ryu school of kyudo and has made his home in Boulder, Colorado since 1985. (Technically this is kyudo and not swordsmanship at all but it's cool so I listed it).

http://www.rmkf.org/ (http://www.rmkf.org/) to see Rocky Mtn Kendo Fed. info. (Doesn't seem to work at the moment.)

Mark Uchida is, or was, teaching Kendo in Colorado Springs.

There is a branch of MJER in Lakewood, Colorado
http://www.tancemike.org/domains/fb/index.html

That's all I can think of off the top of my head, although it seems like there was more.

[Hayamaru]

Wow! You guys are the best, thanks! This is very usefull information thank you ever so much.

And for, as to where i live, Lakewood, Colorado.

(Thanks again!):wink:

[baka_neko]

hi i am also considering iaido, i did kendo for a couple of months but didnt enjoy sparring, but i did enjoy the basic cuts and everything during the warm-up etc.

i was wondering if anyone has had a similar experience like me?

[FastEd]

Kendo lacks combat application that kenjutsu has so if you want to actually know the art of the sword fully it would be better to take that then iaido. Iaido is a diff art and is not needed to master sword fighting, they teach you how to draw and return in kenjutsu, also in kenjutsu when they draw and return they dont touch the blade at all.


Ninjukaku, these kind of posts add nothing to the discussion unless you are will to DEFINE your terms. "Lack of combat application" in terms of what...timing, maai, weapon weight, psyc..." while you can argue that kendo is not what it use to be it still retains somethings (so lets argue).

Your discription of what kenjutsu IS..needs to be clarified. There is no one "kenjutsu" its an over arching classification, which gets kind of fuzzy when you look at the details. So please provide us with some (i.e. ..in my school of X ryu kenjutsu...we do..). As an example we can take Suio Ryu which is often listed as Iai but is also documented to contain: kenjutsu; naginata; jo and kogusoku, or Ono-ha Itto Ryu which is listed as containing odachi and kodachi kenjutsu waza but no Iai (Information referenced from http://www.koryubooks.com/guide/ryuguide.html ).

Drawing and return the blade without touching it does not a kenjutsu make....
so what exactly is the point of this little bit of info?

[KenShi_JoB]

Ono-ha Itto Ryu which is listed as containing odachi and kodachi kenjutsu waza but no Iai (Information referenced from http://www.koryubooks.com/guide/ryuguide.html ).


Ono-ha itto ryu contain 5 Tachiai-batto.

About kendo lack combat application, I don't agree with Ninjukaku too.

[SkippyDaStudent]

DISCLAIMER: I am very new to both kendo and iaido, but this is my opinion.

I had both my first iaido/iaijutsu and kendo lesson yesterday (that's how new I am to this :)) and I honestly think that doing both at the same time is the best choice I could have made. Several elements of iaido/iaijutsu can be found in kendo, and vice versa, making them flow together beautifully. I would highly suggest, because of my experience, to anyone who asks themself the question of "Kendo or Iaido" to go for both, and if you don't like one or the other, then quit.

[FastEd]

Ono-ha itto ryu contain 5 Tachiai-batto.

About kendo lack combat application, I don't agree with Ninjukaku too.


Thanks for the info. I apologize for my ignorance. I should throw this in a another thread but... if possible can you provide a little info on the 5 tachi batto kata..? I.E...Were they added early on..?

[KenShi_JoB]

Thanks for the info. I apologize for my ignorance. I should throw this in a another thread but... if possible can you provide a little info on the 5 tachi batto kata..? I.E...Were they added early on..?

I don't know were they add early on, but I absolutely sure they were add before the end of edo jidai.

5 tachiai batto kumitachi is 2 men kata that start with both people have their sword in the saya, all stand up form.

[Karathos]

[QUOTE=FastEd]Ninjukaku, these kind of posts add nothing to the discussion unless you are will to DEFINE your terms. "Lack of combat application" in terms of what...timing, maai, weapon weight, psyc..." while you can argue that kendo is not what it use to be it still retains somethings (so lets argue).

QUOTE]

I think what he meant by lack of combat application (Nin can correct me if I'm wrong), is that Kendo is a sport. It has many combat application, but there is also a lack of it. In kendo, there are things you can't do. In a real fight, you can do anything. Kendo is just that, a sport. It's not the real way of the sword since that was was about life and death. In a kendo fight, you fight within a set of rules and you can't use kick, punch, head butt, elbow, knees, projections, throw a weapon, etc. Kendo = sport = points. Real life = kill or be killed using any way or mean necessary. No points here, only life and death. You can cut my arm, but in doing so, you might lose you head.

Yes, there is a notion af distance and timing in kendo, but it's incomplete. Have you ever done real shiaï? Real as in you can do everything you want? Once you do, your vision of martial arts is transformed forever. It's not about who strikes first, but about who is alive at the end of the fight.