Motivation and the Kill Bill/Last Samurai phenomenon

[not-I]

Hi there!

A new beginners group was just formed at my dojo, and I was amazed at how packed with new people it was last night. Kendoka have noted an increased interest in kendo and iaido over the past few years and have often attributed it to the StarWars/Matrix/LOTR/KillBill/LastSamurai craze, and many have deplored this phenomenon.

I'm interested in your comments, not so much about the movies, but about the initial motivation for practicing kendo. In my opinion, one's initial motives for beginning kendo don't matter so much. Even if you first take up the shinai or bokuto or iaito because you want to look as cool as the characters in your favorite movie, you soon realize there is a lot of work involved (not so much in looking like tom cruise or ulla thurman, but..) in actually practicing, and are soon forced to reevaluate your motivations and priorities. Either that, or you just drop it altogether, which can be fine too. I doubt many of us started with completey "pure" motivation anyway, which i guess would consist in practicing kendo for its own sake, aside from any ulterior motives.

I recall my initial motivation was finding a sport/art akin to Zen practice, where i could do something with my body, compete with others in a climate of respect, and indulge a general fascination with Japanese medieval culture and philosophy, and yes, probably look cool, too.

Anyway, here are a few things that I thought were quite helpful:

At my dojo, after the initial two or three "sample" trainings, which tend to "weed out" ppl looking for quick returns anyway, people are required to sign on and pay membership dues in advance for a three-month period. This encourages them to take their decision to practice seriously and commit themselves to it, at least for an initial period of time.

One of the senior teachers recently had us fill out a questionaire asking about our reasons for practicing kendo, our short- and long-term goals, ways we would like to improve ourselves, suggestions for training, etc. He says he will show them to us again in a few months to compare with our progress, but just getting stuff down in writing helped a lot in being clearer about motivation and goals.

What was/is your motivation for starting kendo/iaido, or continuing to practice it? And what suggestions would you have for developing "better" motivation? Or better yet, what would you consider to be "proper" motivation?

not-I.

[Wout]

hmm, well to my personal opinion you can't have a "pure" motivation about anything you don't know anything about, because what is a pure motivation anyways. If you have practiced kendo for years maybe you can come up with some good reasons to continue doing it. Maybe the most "pure" reason of beginning kendo is just being curious,doesn't look like a good reason maybe at first, but I think that it at least recognizes that you do not know anything or very little.

My personal incentive to start kendo was because soccer practice stops in april and as a student the general rule is: if you don't do any movement on a regular basis, you spend your time on the couch and that is not very healthy + you got to get in shape for the next season and that takes a lot of effort if you spent 4 months on your ass (esp if you have little or no selfdiscipline like me). How I got to do kendo ^.^; :long story short, it kinda happened

I'm now doing kendo for +- 8 months and now I just want to get better at it.
plus I like training for whatever I do soccer as well as kendo.

[Odachi]

I really like indigo blue..........and I want some tenuguis...that is all.

[Hiryu]

I really like indigo blue..........and I want some tenuguis...that is all.

It ain't the kendo practice, its the Beer, Sake and O-furo after practice. Then again , maybe its the smell of my bogu hanging up in my office, no well then again maybe the wonderful blue color us white boys turn after wearing a new keikogi and hakama, thats always a wonderful benefit, and the women go wild for us smurfs!

[not-I]

hmm, well to my personal opinion you can't have a "pure" motivation about anything you don't know anything about, because what is a pure motivation anyways. If you have practiced kendo for years maybe you can come up with some good reasons to continue doing it. Maybe the most "pure" reason of beginning kendo is just being curious,doesn't look like a good reason maybe at first, but I think that it at least recognizes that you do not know anything or very little.
I quite agree. And I don't think simple curiousity is a "bad" motive at all. I guess one of the few actually "bad" motives would be a desire to hurt people. Anyway, it seems like the more you practice, the less you wonder about why you're doing it -- it turns into a routine, but with lots of nice surprises.
And in a way, just being drawn to it in the first place is a sign of affinity. Then it's just a question of decision, commitment and practice. And, as I also have a problem with self-discipline, it's nice having a sensei screaming at you to do that 293rd men-uchi with conviction!

not-I.

p.s. as i just noticed an earlier thread on "motivation," i wanted to stress that this thread is more about "getting started", beginners' motives in starting, and the kill-bill/last samurai phenomenon, rather than reasons for continuing practice, which seem to be rather irrelevant anyway.

[Andoru]

At my dojo, after the initial two or three "sample" trainings, which tend to "weed out" ppl looking for quick returns anyway, people are required to sign on and pay membership dues in advance for a three-month period. This encourages them to take their decision to practice seriously and commit themselves to it, at least for an initial period of time.

not-I. In my view, financial commitment should never ever be part of any primary motivation in any martial arts. Period. There is no point asking beginners to financially commit when they lack the spirit to train in the first place. To train otherwise would be purely out of obligation - then what's the point?

p.s. not taking a shot at you - just an observation :)

[Neil Gendzwill]

In my view, financial commitment should never ever be part of any primary motivation in any martial arts. Period. There is no point asking beginners to financially commit when they lack the spirit to train in the first place. To train otherwise would be purely out of obligation - then what's the point?
I think it works the other way around. Having to buck up for 3 months makes you decide if you want to be that committed - those that don't have the "spirit to train" quit right there. If you let them pay by the month then you'll just get more people lingering on for one more month before they quit. Also, monthly payments is an administrative headache I wouldn't want to get into. The YMCA takes care of all that stuff now but if I had it do over again I may well have yearly fees and have done with it.

[Andoru]

Neil - I understand what you mean. That's a good way of filtering out people.

I've seen someone suggesting to the sensei that the club fees should be increased etc so that people would be motivated to train more. Stuff along that line....which suggests what I said earlier.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Well there is the odd little psychological phenomona where people think the club is bad because the fees are low. We charge maybe 15% of what the local eclectic kurotty studio charges, so to some people that means we're unqualified.

[Andoru]

Bahahahaha - consumer behaviour is so unpredictable.

Personally I'm glad to be paying only AUD$50 (CAD$50.14) per quarter...and with 2 6th dan senseis (one from Japan) to learn from too. This is easily the cheapest (and best) martial arts I've ever trained in. :D

[Crash]

This last January, we had the largest beginner class ever to join at one time. When i asked my sensei why he thought this was, his reply, two words, TOM CRUISE. Plus, we are one of the more inexpensive dojos around. $15 a month to train with the likes of Maki Miyahara and sensei Yamasaki. I think this really is the greatest bargain of my lifetime.

[itachi]

there had been alot of new begginners at JCCC too, we usuallly let beginners join at the starting of the month, but since there were so many, we skipped a month.

[demon hiei]

i first got interested in kendo after watching animes like ruroni kenshin
i wanted to do stuff like sojirou there,s this technique he does call "shukuchi"
were he moves faster then (god like speed)is another technique it,s really
cool it makes you wish you could do that too or when he combines
shukuchi & batto-jutsu he moves faster then the eye cant see and slashs you
but kenshin cant see it.... he beats sojirou

[Niels]

Hi i'm new to this forum and this seems like a perfect thread for my first post.
I started kendo because you train in all the things that i basically suck at, concentration, discipline, posture, coordination and that stuff really to improve myself and yes i cannot deny that i also would like to look cool while improving myself..

I discovered kendo quite a while ago, but i didnt take it up because it was too difficult for a guy with the attention span of a brick to do such a sport, besides i allready played waterpolo at that time.Long story short i quit waterpolo,then later a friend of mine said that he used to play kendo,and i was like OFCOURSE kendo ...so i looked for a dojo,and was quite happy to find that the beginners course was starting shortly.

Anyway,about the Last Samurai, Kill Bill hype.I haven't even seen the movies,but i do enjoy some watching some anime tho.

Kay that turned out to be a rather incoherent intro of myself..anyway

--Niels

[Niels]

i first got interested in kendo after watching animes like ruroni kenshin
i wanted to do stuff like sojirou there,s this technique he does call "shukuchi"
were he moves faster then (god like speed)is another technique it,s really
cool it makes you wish you could do that too or when he combines
shukuchi & batto-jutsu he moves faster then the eye cant see and slashs you
but kenshin cant see it.... he beats sojirou
Looks like ALI G has another victim :)

[Angel_Down]

Personally, I started kendo because I read an article on a Japanese pop culture site that had an article on kendo, and the experience of a full-blown shiai being "one of the most intense things one can experience". Being open to new things, I decided that I would wait till university started, and then join the dojo at my new school.

6 months later and I'm continuing out of a love and desire to master the art, a respect to my sensei and fellow kendoka, a desire to better myself and out of a love for my dojo which will lose some senior members in the next academic year.

[moetl]

i don't know exactly what brought me to kendo, what i can remember is that i was surfing the web (don't ask me why i googled kendo...) and came across the only dojo within an acceptable distance of my home by pure coincidence... and decided to try it... and here i am *_*

it's hard to describe what keeps me stuck to kendo, maybe it's the wonderful smell of indigo? :) who knows? what i certainly like is kiai-ing and i'm really looking forward to my first fight (how is this called?).


ps: not-I, i'm coming to vienna in september, see u there (hopefully) :D

[Padawan]

Why did I started takeing Kendo classes? Easy. I got a SHARP Katana as a gift from my gf, and I wanted to be able to hold it in my hands without decapitating a\myself in the process. Then it started to grow on me (me kendo for 1 year now). And I proudly say that Kendo changed my way of thinking and seeing things more then any other sport i practiced (Snooker, Rock Climing). I quit smoking, I started takeing better care of myself, I respect myself and others more then ever. Imention that I never did any form of martial arts in my life...and now, I woudn't quit kendo for anything!:evolved:


Please excuse my English.

[Hai_hai]

I saw a poster of the 11th world kendo championships on another website. It has a picture of a kendo mask and a bunch of words. I looked further into it.

[JByrd]

My club is small, with only two people who have enough experience to instruct. Beginners need a lot of close attention, and we simply can't afford to spend a lot of time on people who are just going to quit after a couple of weeks. It takes precious time away from the intermediates, and from our own advanced practice.

We recently implemented some policies to help us deal more effectively with beginners. First, we start them in batches every few months. We require that new beginners watch an entire class before joining in. We also require that new beginners attend at least half of the first month's practices to continue. If they can't commit to that moderate level of attendance, we tell them to come back when they can.

[Halcyon]

personally, i like this disclaimer on the san jose dojo's web site.

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/sjkendo/

very funny and to the point.

[midnightdawn]

Hi there!

At my dojo, after the initial two or three "sample" trainings, which tend to "weed out" ppl looking for quick returns anyway, people are required to sign on and pay membership dues in advance for a three-month period. This encourages them to take their decision to practice seriously and commit themselves to it, at least for an initial period of time.



Our dojo is run similarly. It is a college dojo. And basically they say, you can try it out for 3 practices, but by the 3rd practice you should pay if you want to be a part of the club for the semester. I think that is a good thing, and you are right, most people that really dont want to be there will leave by the 3rd practice. It amazes me to see how many people leave each semester. The semester I started, there were about 20 of us, and I'm the only person that is left.

As you mentioned, I had slightly "impure" reasons for joining kendo. Basically, I went to the callout for our school and thought it was neat, but didn't do it, then later that semester one of the sempais I was at mentioned how few females there are in kendo and something how "a room full of just testosterone isn't good. " :silly: This slightly intrigued me, just doing an activity that most females don't do. Plus I had this void in my life where I had no real physical activity to strive to get better at. (I ran track and cross country in hs, but had dropped running competitivly once I got to college).

But once I actually got into it, I just really fell in love with the martial art. It was the first martial art I ever tried, and I just loved the whole force behind it. Everyone pushing each other to get through tough subari practices, loud loud kiai for power, and just holding the shinai. I think, the only way that people really stick with kendo is that their motivation turns into just pure love for the martial art. I think your right with most people come in with slightly silly reasons, like Kill Bill or Kenshin or something of that matter. The people that stay are the ones that transform those reasons into love for kendo.

[Ren Blade]

I've been training Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Iaido for 5 weeks now. I love it. I've only been using a bokuto cause I'm still waiting for my Iaito to arrive in the mail. I love Last Samurai, Kill Bill, Kenshin, the Zatoichi movies and Seven Samurai. I have always loved Japanese swords since I was little. 4 years ago I bought a Practical Katana simply cause of that. A friend at that time who had a little exposure to Iaido showed me how to draw and noto with it. And as dangerous as it was, I went ahead and practiced that everyday. When Last Samurai came out, that movie really motivated me to find some training in Japanese sword. JSA is rare in Boston. But I eventually found www.bostoniaido.com (http://www.bostoniaido.com) and made the effort to join them. Class is unfortunately only once a week in Boston. But on the other days that there is no Iaido class, I would practice 200 cuts and 5 Batto Ho wazas and 1 Seiza No Bu waza a few times with each waza everynight. Will be practicing more wazas on my own as I learn more wazas. I strive for accurate cuts, perfect stances and body mechanics. I want to do it right and to the way of my sensei's liking. I just seen Last Samurai for free at Tufts University last Saturday. I still love it. This time I was looking for the differences in stances and the way they cut. There were some differences for sure. But I still love the movie. I'm gonna get the Last Samurai DVD and Kill Bill DVD cause I still love those movies. And looking foward to Kill Bill 2. I have Kenshin and Zatoichi DVDs and still watch them with all enjoyment. But yet I still strive to do Iaido as correct as possible as the way my sensei teaches it. When doing the wazas I focus on the cuts and stances. I love Iaido and it's been quite a delight. Last Samurai motivated me to go find training. So what's wrong with loving the Last Samurai and Kill Bill or whatever swordplay movie while recieving proper training with a legit sensei? Sure there are beginners that start JSA cause they're excited by some movie and they leave after they find training is hard. Sure it's hard. Some beginners just bail out after they don't find it as what they imagined it to be after seeing Last Samurai and whatnot. But this JSA beginner still love it even after a 2 hour class that's once a week and practicing on my own 6 nights a week for the past 5 weeks. And I plan to just stick with it cause I enjoy it so much. So not all beginners will be the same. Hell, I am still trying to get just one cut right because I think I suck. But it's challenging and fun. I think these movies are good advertisement for JSA. You may get lots of beginners in class. But some will leave and some will stay. That's how it'll be weeded out. Well, I have 14 years of Martial Arts background anyways, so I'm used to hard work. So it's not surprising to me that learning a new Martial Art takes some hard work and also some adjusting. I currently still do Kung Fu for the past 8 years and added Iaido to my Martial Art studies. I practice Iaido on my own after Kung Fu classes at night. But Thursdays is my Iaido class and it works out that Iaido is right after Kung Fu and I just drive over to Iaido as soon as I'm done sparring.

I was annoyed on this messege board when I first joined with some people who called me a Samurai wanna be cause I was asking for a Kenjutsu dojo in Boston and I just saw Last Samurai. Telling me that "oh, why you wanna kill someone with a real sword. Just do Kendo. And Samurai wannabe this and Samurai wannabe that." I'm like jeez. I'm not after to kill anyone. Anyways, I found a legit sensei and been doing Iaido for 5 weeks in class and on my own every night while still loving the movie Last Samurai. I have learned so much about the Japanese sword from class and from reading books and searching all information on the subject on the internet and other messege boards of Samurai and Japanese sword themes. So thank you for all the help to those people who called me a Samurai wannabe on this mesege board who didn't actually help me but like to feel bout good bout themselves by putting down potential JSA practitioner. And I don't know about wanting to be a Samurai personally. Maybe I did before from seeing animes and movies. But after learning more about Samurais and their history, I don't think I want to be them. But it's fun once in awhile to pretend you're a Samurai in fight during your wazas. I do get bored with pretending to be Samurai during wazas so I just be myself focusing on doing the wazas as accurately as possible. So what is the big deal with some people not liking beginners to join cause of a movie? Sure some beginners are a waste of time. They'll leave eventually. There is a risk of spending all your heart and energy on training someone. But that's the risk you take of spending your energy on beginners when Martial Arts isn't a social necessity in modern times as it was in ancient times. I teach Kung Fu classes a couple nights sometimes 4 nights a week if the other teachers don't show up at my Kung Fu school. So I know what it's like with beginners. And with Iaido, I am a beginner myself and I listen and do as my Iaido sensei tells me.

[DCPan]

Kendoka have noted an increased interest in kendo and iaido over the past few years and have often attributed it to the StarWars/Matrix/LOTR/KillBill/LastSamurai craze, and many have deplored this phenomenon.


Are you kidding? I started in Kendo because I saw the name Kiyoshi Yamazaki in the movie credits for Conan the Barbarian! :D

17 years later (first taught in 1987, but didn't really practice regularly in a dojo until 1993, and then granted on and off in between due to school and stuff and trying out other martial arts), I'm still here! :D


I'm interested in your comments, not so much about the movies, but about the initial motivation for practicing kendo. In my opinion, one's initial motives for beginning kendo don't matter so much.

Yeah...in retrospect, my motives for getting into Kendo was rather vain...I just wanted to look good.... I had always looked for the most peanut-gallery pleasing techniques... :D Hopefully, that has changed....

At one point, I was given the nickname "The Pride of [snip]" because I was so full of myself...aaahhh...really miss the "I know everything" stage :D Didn't know about the nickname until later, but hey, everyone goes through a phase...just took me longer to "see the light".... :D



And what suggestions would you have for developing "better" motivation? Or better yet, what would you consider to be "proper" motivation?


I don't think it is really my place to decide what "proper" motivation is for other people.

However, if it is a good dojo, "kun-tou" will take care of molding your motivation.

Like what Neil said somewhere else...the most important thing is just this..."Showing up to practice!"

FWIW :D

[Raziel]

I have always been interested in swords and swordplay but when I was younger it was always English style swords and big heavy weapons, the bigger and heavyer and more bashy bashy damage I could do with a weapon the more I wanted to pratice with it. But as I got older I started to realy look into English style weapons and armours the more I soon came to realiz that barly being able to move and getting tired really quick is kinda uncool. then I saw a movie or played a game or something and realized that even though a Katana is a lot smaller than my previous angry man weapons they are a lot easier to use and a lot quicker so I (as an overweight person) don't tire out nearly as quickly and the rest kinda fell into place.

[[Kensei 剣の聖者]]

To be honest a film is a weak basis for commitment to a discipline and art but if it leads to genuine dedication and fulfilment then who can blame you. But i would personaly rethink if i just saw some cool samurai hacking people to bits and thought "ooh i wana go learn that", because then i would question your motives and your sanity and you shouldnt be let near a sword you idiot.

[KatanaEnvy]

Let's make a distinction between what instills "commitment in a discipline" and what generates interest or curiousity. I am a perfect example of the subject of this thread-- I saw "The Last Samurai" and became intrigued with the culture, discipline, and etiquette surrounding the Samurai and the Samurai sword. At that point, I didn't even know what Kendo was or how it is related to the sword. My curiousity led me to various sites with information, and eventually to sites regarding Kendo. My curiousity still piqued, I bought a couple of books on Kendo to read up on the history and background. It wasn't until that point that I actually looked in my area for a Kendo school. My good fortune is that there is one, and after watching a couple of lessons, I have been enrolled for the last couple of months. So were my motivations "impure" or "weak?" While seeing a movie inspired me to do research, it was the research and viewing of the classes, and wanting to be a part of the discipline and atmosphere of Kendo that ultimately led to my "commitment."

Quite frankly, anyone searching for new students with strictly "pure" motives (whatever that is) has been watching too many movies themself. The short timers can't be said to have "commitment"-- who cares what motivated those that show the commitment to continue with Kendo? It's that kind of self-righteous judgement that probably pushes people away and certainly isn't at the core of Kendo teachings. Thinks about it.

[Ren Blade]

Jeez. Talk about over analyzing. Well, I guess I've been figured out. After 14 years of Martial Arts, 8 years with Kung Fu and still going there cause I still have alot to work on, you'd think I'd quit Iaido after I lose interest in a movie maybe some years later. There are plenty of Kung Fu movies I like. But some got boring and haven't seen a good Kung Fu movie lately. I haven't quit and I'm still sticking with Kung Fu. It builds my reactions, speed, power and form. This is good self development. It raises my spirit and I feel good about myself accomplishing another hard class. And while I'm no longer thinking of movies when I train Kung Fu like I did in the beginning, I still have the heart for it. Now I added Iaido. Oh, it's different now, cause I saw Last Samurai. I'm gonna quit soon or end of this year cause I'm just excited by a movie. Yeah, got me figured out. How bout I quit after I pass away in my old age. Last night in Iaido I was more concerned bout my draw cause I had another correction on it and I was hardly thinking Last Samurai or whatever in my mind but "Ok, tip cleared the saya, now pull the tsuka with the pinky. Is the blade straight or crooked for this cut? Is my arm 45 degrees? Do it again!" etc. etc. This little detail would've bored the hell out of most beginners. But since I like the challenge of a new style and I enjoy the Japanese sword, the less I think about movies. It's truly unfair to judge every beginner as being the same. I teach Kung Fu a couple nights a week. Sometimes 4. I know what beginners are like. I seen alot come and go through my years. But I don't go ahead and assume they're not gonna last. I just wait and see rather than speculate. But thanks for helping beginners with some advice on stance or a cut or whatever with a new art they started instead of criticizing their motives. Maybe a discussion on wazas of their art or a particular cut is more constructive than "Oh, you're just excited by a movie. You'll quit. I've seen your kind. I know the kind of person you are cause of a few posts on the internet."

[lwegerich]

...you soon realize there is a lot of work involved (not so much in looking like tom cruise or ulla thurman, but..)

Hey, I'm a 39 year old, 6 ft. 3'', 100 kg bear with a hairy a*s and you bet for me it is easier to get my 8th dan in kendo before I die then ever looking like Uma Thurman! ;)

SCNR

Lars

[Ren Blade]

Quote:
Originally Posted by not-I


...you soon realize there is a lot of work involved (not so much in looking like tom cruise or ulla thurman, but..)

Although it may never happen, I'd rather be as good as my sensei. And if you're talking bout looks, I rather look like the way he does Iaido. Why would I want to look like Tom or Uma? They were entertaining to watch but they're not teaching me JSA. My sensei is.

[Ren Blade]

Hey, I'm a 39 year old, 6 ft. 3'', 100 kg bear with a hairy a*s and you bet for me it is easier to get my 8th dan in kendo before I die then ever looking like Uma Thurman! ;)

SCNR

Larsha ha ha...:silly:

[D'Artagnan]

My original motives for starting kendo were quite strange really, in retrospect. I have always been fascinated by swords and swordplay. One day i met this beautiful girl at college who told me that she did historical re-enactment. Immediately the idea of running around playing with swords and spears appealed to me, so due to my martial arts background i asked her if there was anyway one could do samurai reenactment. She told me she didn't really know, but one of the other reenactors did Kendo. WOW!! i thought. I started seeing this girl, and attended reenatment events with her. I met the guy that did kendo and we got on really well. Then one day, we were at his house and i was encaptured his shinais. He said that i could have one if i wanted, WOW!!!!! COOL!!!! he said the only condition is that you don't take it home as an ornament, but you bloodywell use it!!

That was it, I got home got on the net found my dojo had just opened and it ws close enough for me to attend!!! as for the girl well, i spent 4 years letting her kick my ass round a reenactment battle field, now she whoops my ass all over the dojo!!!

[nodaka]

i have been doing kendo for many years and now i have the pleassure of instrocting other. i first saw this type of swordsmanship in Star Wars: A New Hope, when i was six. it hooked me at the moment. while other kids played with toy guns i played with a short broom stick and thought it was my sword. Later as i grew older i was introduced to Kendo and have been in bogu ever since.

[rainmaker]

Always curious about Kendo.. Last Samurai triggered it though... That is when I actually researched and find more about Kendo....