kote-men

[kendokamax]

This is a weird question.

Do you use kote men often ?

For some reason I never use it during keiko or shiai.
And really don't see it used often by others. But it's a technique that we are taught every practices. :confused:

[alexpollijr]

Not often. But that's due to the fact that I have a congenital handicap concerning renzoku waza. I've always believed that it's best to put it all on hitting a valid kote strike and then straight over to zanshin. But it's by far the most popular renzoku waza. however, you're not expected to be able to use it effectively until you have some years of experience on your back.

But it's a good technique to learn for gradings. Esp. Nidan and higher.

[Kuri]

It's something that I use, but not so frequently. Even if the kote cut is not effective, my aim is to keep centre and force them to make an openning and take the opportunity to hit men. Sometimes I hit the kote, sometimes men, sometimes both and sometimes none :( It very much depends on who I'm playing and the timing of the cuts :cheeky:

[JSchmidt]

I tend to use it quite a lot..even got a point with it at the last taikai:D. The thing is, that you don't need to hit the kote, but you use the first cut as a cheap mans seme and force a reaction that will open up the men.
I also find it an effective oji-waza against kote. The kote-cut will cancel out the opponents cut and the men hopefully score.

Jakob

[Aoi]

I use kote-men pretty often. I believe it's practiced most because it contains one of the most fundamental cuts and can be practiced from an early kendo year age.
As Jakov said, it may be used as a replacement for harai/uchiotoshi waza, and as Kuri said, it may be used as a pick up for a unsuccessful kote uchi. I prefer to think of it as a "pick-up" for an unsuccessful kote uchi.
I practice the kote-men renzoku waza so that the kote and men cuts are individual cuts on their own, but still with the same sharpness and speed. So in a shiai, if the kote is successful, I can clearly zanshin from there, and if it isn't, I can directly or semi-automatically switch to a men cut. But I guess Renzoku waza is often used as a replacement for shikake waza by most people. It purely depends on how you wish to practice it.

[kendo_chick]

I think that kote-men is the strike combo that I use the most. That and straight kote. I'm not into anything very complicated.

[saki_wooah]

kote-men... I don't use it often in shiai (in fact, I never used it). It takes me too much time. I always do Kote... usually my shinai is going below the opponent's shinai and I strike kote...

[Will]

I try kote-men more than men b/c my seme is too weak to deflect the debana kotes.

I practice kote men a lot b/c it helps me speed up my footwork, and a good kote men is almost invincible...but...a good everything is almost invincible isn't it?

[kendokamax]

I will think about using kote men next practice.!

I think it's a nice technique.

So true , it can be a nice oji waza against kote !

[lewis]

As described above, I use it to disrupt the opponent to create an opening for a men or do. (We do a lot of kote do practice here on top of kote men). Personally, my reflexes are somewhat slow and I have a hard time responding to my opponents attacks unless they telegraph terribly. Kote combinations allow me to try an break him off of center and capitalize on it.

[munenmuso]

i think if your a bit flashy and confident enough, you can do it more often until you expose yourself to be very predictable and become an easy target.this waza is not recommended for beginners because usually once executed the zanshin most of the time exits out of the picture.but for the prepared mind this is one of the indespensable waza that guarantees a point.

[alexpollijr]

What?

This was truly a cryptic post.

[James]

Yoda's grammar using he is....

[akihiro]

kendokamax, did you give kote-men a shot yet? How did it go?

[kendokamax]

Ya I tried a bit more..but my zanshin on kote men is too slow/lazy. After the men cut I don't go foward enough and mostly stay on the same place. Will work on that.....At least i have the music of kote men.

I enjoy that technique.

Happy kendo!!

[olaf]

It's interesting how all of us seem to experience the same problems with effectively executing kote-men waza in shiai situations.

I, too, would complain that I do it too slow and with insufficient explosive momentum for it to be effective. I tend to hesitate to use it unless the opponent's kote is glaringly open, at which point I over-focus on scoring the kote point, and the subsequent men comes out somewhat sloppy.

[JSchmidt]

" I tend to hesitate to use it unless the opponent's kote is glaringly open, "

If the kote is open, just cut the kote!.

Jakob

[ben]

Absolutely Jakob, I agree. If the kote is open, there is no need for men.

I see kote men as a technique that helps instil the ability to persevere, to attack with the body and dominate your opponent: especially if you practice it a lot outside of jigeiko. It also helps to develop zanshin.

If your opponent tends to play on the back foot, or steps away from your attacks, then it is appropriate to use in shiai. Also, attempting kote men several times unsuccessfully creates the perfect opportunity for kote-do.

Seeing how fast you can make your kote-men is a good way of developing explosive power through relaxation: it is impossible to do quickly if you have the strength in your upper body.

All these things I have found to be true. :D
b

[samurai999]

I don't use kote men that often. It depends on the situation. I try using it if my opponent is trying kote too much and leaving the men wide open.

Kendokamax, when you practice this, (as all sensei tend to say), lead with your hips and you go futher than if you lead with your head.

Tim

[JSchmidt]

"Also, attempting kote men several times unsuccessfully creates the perfect opportunity for kote-do."

Yes, especially if you got a 'blocker'. (Someone who always blocks, but never does any oji-waza).:D

Jakob

[toreisu]

Originally posted by munenmuso
i think if your a bit flashy and confident enough, you can do it more often until you expose yourself to be very predictable and become an easy target.this waza is not recommended for beginners because usually once executed the zanshin most of the time exits out of the picture.but for the prepared mind this is one of the indespensable waza that guarantees a point.
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I think munenmuso has some good points here.

- If you are good enough to do kote men well, do it, but don't overuse it or others will predict your next move. (Same logic applies to overusing any technique.)

- It is harder for beginners to maintain zanshin in a combination technique like kote men, than with a single men strike. For beginners, kote men is a good technique to practice, but it won't be as effective in jigeiko or taikai as, say, a single kote strike, or a single men strike for precisely that reason.

[munenmuso]

thanks toreisu for your intelligent comment. here in our dojo, i noticed that those people who usually perform kote-do with justice are our 6th dan up japanese instructors who are no exemptions in mastering rhythm and striking at the best harmony.but those less talented members who are just immitating them with the mentioned waza find themselves always in the receiving end of a well executed strike.this is due to lack of understanding and bearing when executing kote-do which is a difficult technique during shiai or keiko,this is one of the symptoms of the "unprepared mind"Alex.Remember, that mimickry is not mastery.

[JSchmidt]

I diagree. Kote-men is an excellent waza for improving timing & footwork, So what, if you get hit....that only matters in shiai.
If we only can execute techniques which we master, we will never master anything.

Jakob

[munenmuso]

that's right Jacob.kote-men is an excellent technique.In fact it is a basic technique used to enhance/develop every kendoka.To nurture his timing and footwork to another level and always relevant to one's training. But the question is "do you use it more often in shiai or keiko"?

[KATSUJIN]

i don't exactly do kote-men in shiai......i mostly do debana men or kote....i only do aiuchi kote-men when my opponent is doing kote on me.....it helps alot....

[doyoudo]

I use it often.
After a sharp kote, sometimes the opponent lost his balance of shiai.
That let me do men easily.