Naginata used on horse?

[Chris Sauthoff]

Hello,
I was just wondering how much if at all the Naginata was used by horseback?

[lucian]

I have never read of it being used on horse back but it may have been used could give some nice advantage’s,
But seems best suited for an infantry weapon for killing cavalry less of a risk of losing hands /head when taking a rider down.

Are there any plans to introduce naginata to the UK? I know of a few people whom practice but never heard of any dojo’s that specialise in it,
If any one knows of a dojo or any body who is looking for more people to practice with or train just point me in there direction

[Antonin]

Hie
i believe there is currently no naginata dojo in the UK, and indeed very few people practicing it ( I am not one of them....). Check the site http://members.aol.com/uknaginata/index.htm for more info.
People have to go and practice on the "continent" to meet more naginata people, mostly in France, where it is quite big (probably biger than kendo in the Uk, but this is another matter !)
Hope this helps !
Antonin

[lucian]

thanks, Antonin

that’s most helpful:) , looks like I might have to spend some time abroad to study it where better than Japan


~Lucian~

[Alex]

Hi there,

actually, I wouldn't say that naginata is bigger in France than kendo is in the UK. True, there are a few people doing it, but numbers probably don't exceed 300. Besides, in the true spirit of budo, their Federation was embroiled in all sorts of political problems recently, which essentially halved the 'official' number of people doing naginta in France.

As far as naginata being used from horseback, it was sometimes, but was really designed to use from the gound against horses. The perfect weapon for hamstringing a horse without getting too close. The naginata was too cumbersome and difficult to wield effectively with one hand from horseback, and for the most part remained a weapon for foot soldiers.:p

[Kenshi]

Hi,

in the uk there is almost no one. The site mentioned below features my friends Gillian and Rachel, both of whom have had extremely limited exposure ... usually in the form of Sumi-sensei's wife once or every couple of years.

There is a kiwi lady called Alice who practises at Mumeishi dojo who, I believe, is a dan-grade. We were going to have a bash yesterday.... but we ran out of time :(

Basically, Lucian, if you are serious you have to go to France (as Alex and Antonin mentioned).

Cheers,

[lucian]

Thanks for you input george
i think i will just stick to kendo, iaido, jodo for now
later

[chidokan]

A friend of mine, Alison,uses a naginata at Leeds iaido dojo, but its not the 'kendo style' bamboo one. I think she does Katori Shinto ryu... I'll check on Sunday when I see her at the seminar. She trains with some people from the Stoke on Trent area, anyway. Last time I saw it here was with Sumi sensei's wife, she's excellent, but for some reason it never took off like I expected in the U.K.

Tim

[Prof.Wizard]

Hello,
I was just wondering how much if at all the Naginata was used by horseback?Considering the Naginata an intermediate solution between a Yari and a Katana, Naginata Cavalry should have had many advantages.

[Nagi David]

Naginata in England will grow up faster than you think, Rachel seems to be really motivated, and any of the English people who wanna join rest of Europe's seminar are more than welcome.
<img src="http://www.lenaginata.be/images/figureslegendaires/01.jpg">
if you understand a little French I invite you to discover my new website : www.lenaginata.be

[Prof.Wizard]

Naginata in England will grow up faster than you think, Rachel seems to be really motivated, and any of the English people who wanna join rest of Europe's seminar are more than welcome.I'll be going to England for my surgical residency and I'll most probably embrace Naginata. It is good to know the discipline is growing! :evolved:


http://www.lenaginata.be/images/figureslegendaires/01.jpg Yep, the photo shows clearly there has been Naginata Cavalry. :)

[lewis]

I have read somewhere that the "nagimaki", which is essentially a shorter handled (2-4 feet long handle) naginata (or, if you prefer, a longer handled sword) was specifically developed for use from horse back. It had enough reach to hit targets near the ground, but wasn't too long to impede use from horseback. Sorry, I forget, exactly, where I read it.

[R A Sosnowski]

I have read somewhere that the "nagimaki", which is essentially a shorter handled (2-4 feet long handle) naginata (or, if you prefer, a longer handled sword) was specifically developed for use from horse back. It had enough reach to hit targets near the ground, but wasn't too long to impede use from horseback. Sorry, I forget, exactly, where I read it.

Hmmmmm. ... My understanding was that the Nagimaki (3+ foot blade amd 3+ foot shaft) were primarily used by infantry to cut the legs off the horses during cavalry charges.

Ellis Amdur in his essay "The Development and History of the Naginata" mentions in passing that there are pictorial references to Naginata of various designs being occasionally used on horseback. It is unclear if Nagimaki are included in this. I suspect not, because the Nagimaki was a massive and awkward weapon - you would definitely need two hands to wield it effectively. Otherwise, the cavalryman has his "saber" -- the Tachi -- to use.

FWIW.

[Phil]

it s a martial art who s used by the "horse police"(?) in belgium but everybody can practice it (if you have a horse... :devious: ) it come from Ba(horse) and jutsu(technik)
they are using katana, bow(yabusame) and naginata

more info on http://www.bajutsu.com/yoseikan/art_martial_tech.htm


++

Phil

[Nagi David]

I read somewhere that the Naginata used in Bajutsu was different and was called Nagamaki

[Phil]

http://www.bajutsu.com/yoseikan/armes-bajutsu.htm

if you go on that link you will see all the weapons in bajutsu.
i think in the feodal time in japan they where using nagamaki because of the lenght of the blade(+- 75cm) (even if the ebu was smaler).but now it seems to be Zen nihon kata naginata (on the pictures). :evolved:


++

Phil

[R A Sosnowski]

I read somewhere that the Naginata used in Bajutsu was different and was called Nagamaki

My understanding is that Nagimaki were used AGAINST horses. The 3+ foot blade on a 3+ foot shaft was used to cut the legs out from under the horse. They could also function as Yari, and would have put quite a "dent" in armor by either cutting or thrusting.

From Ellis Amdur's naginata essays in his anthology "Old School," the naginata was occasionally used on horseback; however, he makes no reference to nagimaki being used on horseback. Nagimaki seem to be too heavy to be used effectively from horseback.

FWIW.

[kendophx]

I am looking at the pictures on the linked site, and all of the horses are European. {and before you say, "well d'uh :rolleyes:" ... here is my point}

It is my understanding that like America, the horse is not a native animal to Japan.

Pre-Meiji Restoration, horses were an imported status symbol for the wealthy and they were imported from Korea/Mongolia.

Mongolian ponies are like Icelandic ponies. They have no gait - that might be the wrong term - i.e. the rider does not bounce because the ponies' back do not arch when they gallop.

This would make traditional yabusame a lot easier than modern yabusame. The ride would have been much smoother.

But in terms of naginata - the ponies are small and the rider's feet are barely off the ground. If you tried to carry a long handled weapon, you would have to lay it across the ponies' back - meaning the ishizuki would be hitting the rider next to you or you would be dragging the ishizuki on the ground. Either way - not a practical weapon for a massed cavalry charge.

If the Portuguese, et.al., brought taller, European horses with them and traded them to the Japanese pre-Tokagawa, I do not know. But by that time, Oda Nobunaga (sp?) was introducing firearm warfare and both naginata and yari were phased out from castle conquering warfare.

They and other polearms, like witch collars, were still used in police work and home defense in the country side. However, neither of these involved naginata on horseback.

[berghaan]

not to add a point but:

There is some nice scenes in "the last samurai" where there are horsemen with naginata. In these scenes it is a bit shorter and on the ishuzuki there is a small ball shaped form.

Just thought it looked cool :grin:

[kendophx]

For your (possible) enjoyment ....

http://www.metmuseum.org/special/mongolian/mongol_images.html

From the New York Metropolitan Museum ...
Images (artistic) of Mongolian horses.


http://www.escoltafinearts.com/GaryHostallero.html
http://www.hostallero.com

These two are commercial sites that I have no affiliation with, nor promote in any way.

They do, however, have a nice collection of images (artistic) of Japanese warriors and riders by artist Gary Hostallero. {Disclaimer: Mr. Hostellero, for several years now, has done the artwork for the City of Phoenix Matsuri - a Japanese festival at which, I am a volunteer.}

Everyone's taste in artwork is different, I know; so, if these images bring you no enjoyment, I apologize in advance for wasting your time. As it relates to the subject under discussion, I thought it appropriate to note these sites here.

Not able to find any images (artistic or otherwise) of Japanese Riders on Mongolian Horses however :rolleyes: ...

[laozi]

http://tenplus.fc2web.com/ssn030724/page1.htm

Click three pictures.and see the picture of several sheets.
Although most is a Thoroughbred,but you can find only one native species
of Japan. And I....who am a native Japanese.

[Nagi David]

Thanks for these great pictures,
Unfortunately I can't find any Naginata, could you?

[Shogun97]

there is one video on the kendo-world download-side where a man is fighting a kendoka whith a naginata!!!
have a look......

[laozi]

http://www.yabusame.jp/

Please read about <Takeda-school Horse-riding martial art>

If you click the same place in Japanese , you can see Yari on horseback.
but,there are no picture Naginata now.
I have a book the Takeda-ryu Bajutsu ,there are fighting Naginata on horseback.

[baka gaijin]

Hello,
I was just wondering how much if at all the Naginata was used by horseback?

more often they simply used coconuts.

[Odachi]

Naginata and kendo equipment is expensive enough......and now I have to get a horse......


:smiley:

[Bleda]

If i buy a mustang instead of a standard pony does that make me a rich boy show off?

[baka gaijin]

*snickers*