Quick Promoting Dojos

[Hattori Hanzo]

I noticed a similiar thread about how quick it takes one to become a shodan in some dojos. Not that I am saying my dojo is better than this but we only test once a year.

We really down play rank at my Dojo, the way it was put to me is that it is an indication of what you know to your sensei.

My question though is how often does your dojo grade?

[Shiro]

My dojo holds exams roughly every 6 months but the highest we can reach in the dojo is 2nd kyu. If you want to go higher you have to attend examination sessions at seminars and tournaments. It's the ABKF that organizes the exams above 2nd kyu.

[taiwnezboi]

every month

[Hattori Hanzo]

Every month, seriously? Does your DoJo promote quickly? My sensei says once a year is plenty he says if you put in a good year it shows your deserve it...not that I am dissing your dojo just wondering why they promote so fast.

[Bleda]

our dojo only tests at seminars and tournaments so we usually get about 3-4 tests a year. Most dojo's actually are pretty comparable in time taken you may only test once a year but i doubt you only go up 1 rank at each test. For us we test usually 2 or 3 ranks depending on how long its been since your last grading and your amount od training.

[Wout]

you say you test once a year, but what do you test for? for one kyu a time starting at rokyu or ikkyu, because there seem to be soem differences regarding that too?
In our dojo you can test every 3 months till sankyu after that you will have to do grading for second kyu before a federal jury and for ikkyu and shodan for a Belgain Jury. after that I have no clue but I'll see what happens ^_^. I'm only sankyu so I really don't have to worry myself with that. But basicly you can get shodan in three, four years I think (three is maybe a bit fast, but I'll try).

[Hai_hai]

I noticed a similiar thread about how quick it takes one to become a shodan in some dojos. Not that I am saying my dojo is better than this but we only test once a year.

We really down play rank at my Dojo, the way it was put to me is that it is an indication of what you know to your sensei.

My question though is how often does your dojo grade?

Usually once a year. However, there are always other dojos who hold a test so you could test more than once a year if you wanted to.

[taiwnezboi]

Every month, seriously? Does your DoJo promote quickly? My sensei says once a year is plenty he says if you put in a good year it shows your deserve it...not that I am dissing your dojo just wondering why they promote so fast.

there is promotion test every month.. but it doesn't mean you can test every month.. it's usually once every 3 months.. and you only move up 1 kyu at a time.. I think they might have changed it now but before we started at 9 kyu and move up a kyu every 3 months.. then it takes 6 months to go from 4 kyu to 3 kyu.. then a year for each kyu after that

[kawa]

Side Questions: How much a student need to pay for each test? and if they pass, how much is the Menjo? I notice many kendo/kumdo in a commercial setting often have frequent testing. Make me wonder if this is to the benefit of club “owners”.

[Hattori Hanzo]

We actually only test one Kyu at a time, and every year. My instructor says that way when you change rank it means something. We start at 6th Kyu I think. We have guys who have been in there five years and are still not shodan because of this, not that it is bad...rank isn't the be all and end all. Of course I am sure there are plenty of threads on the mystical black belt thing.

The thing is too what you do in class isn't limited to your rank.

[Hai_hai]

Side Questions: How much a student need to pay for each test? and if they pass, how much is the Menjo? I notice many kendo/kumdo in a commercial setting often have frequent testing. Make me wonder if this is to the benefit of club “owners”.

Kendo, unlike other martial arts, only have a set number of ranks. Some schools have more kyu ranks for whatever reasons. So, whether you take 1 test or 12 tests in a year, you can only go so far.

[kawa]

Kendo, unlike other martial arts, only have a set number of ranks. Some schools have more kyu ranks for whatever reasons. So, whether you take 1 test or 12 tests in a year, you can only go so far.

I was talking about the money generated from monthly testing and menjo fees.
1 test = $
12 tests=$$$$$$$$$$$$

I’m not against commercial setting at all, as long as in-house Sensei dedicates himself full time in teaching Kendo.
One must paid for any service.

[sminki]

there is promotion test every month.. but it doesn't mean you can test every month.. it's usually once every 3 months.. and you only move up 1 kyu at a time.. I think they might have changed it now but before we started at 9 kyu and move up a kyu every 3 months.. then it takes 6 months to go from 4 kyu to 3 kyu.. then a year for each kyu after that

According to my calculations, this means that it takes 5 years to get shodan at your dojo (1 year until 6 kyu, another until 3 kyu, another for 2 kyu, another for 1 kyu and another for shodan). That's long by anyone's modern standards (maybe not so long in pre-war standards). I guess HRK must have good shodans. Good business too.

[taiwnezboi]

According to my calculations, this means that it takes 5 years to get shodan at your dojo (1 year until 6 kyu, another until 3 kyu, another for 2 kyu, another for 1 kyu and another for shodan). That's long by anyone's modern standards (maybe not so long in pre-war standards). I guess HRK must have good shodans. Good business too.

yeah it takes about 5 years to get 1 dan.. but I think they're changing it now so that it takes like 3-4 years.. our 3rd keups compete in shodan division

kawa: it's $40 for testing

[Shogun97]

In my dojo we only get tested 4-5 times per years.
I have no idea if this might be often or not.
Can anybody tell me?

[Hattori Hanzo]

You mean per year right?

that would break down to once every three months about, seems like a good number to me.

[Dave Fowler]

I test my students about 4-5 times per year. Mostly for kids as for them it helps with self esteem to have something they can say they've gotten for ranks. As for the adults i'm mostly after:

First test: you know the commands and club etiquette regarding bowing in etc.
Second test: you know the basics enough that you can be pushed harder for training for bogu.
Third and final test: your ready for bogu finally.
After that it's the yearly grading where the federation controls ranks, i.e. ikkyu and up.

P.S. i was a bit surprised to see that some clubs charge for internal testing, I was always under the impression that 'all' kendo was non-profit/volunteer sensei.

[Wout]

they charge for in dojo testing????

[sminki]

they charge for in dojo testing????

Yep. That's how most "for-profit" dojos do it.

[Sithlord]

Over here we have examinations every 6 months. Highest possible is 4th dan..cause of our very senior panel. Also my dojo is the main one around..so many ppl from others come to be examined. Also same goes for Iaido..highest 3rd dan grading. Not so sure about Dojo and Naginata. Total of 4 arts kendo being the main of course.

Dave..yeah we charge also...not matter wat grade ur going for. Probably it all goes towards the benefit of the club and other fees and costs.

[ben]

Dave..yeah we charge also...not matter wat grade ur going for. Probably it all goes towards the benefit of the club and other fees and costs.

Sithlord, a correction if I may: if you are talking about the Kenshikan/Melbourne Budokai, then those gradings are not internal or club gradings, but official VKR gradings. Hence a grade you earn there can be taken to Japan (or anywhere else), recognised, and built upon. Hence you pay for them. The grading panel for gradings up to 4 dan is not made up of Kenshikan members only but requires the participation of kendoka from Melbourne Uni, Fudoshin and Mumeishi clubs as well.

b

BTW - Dave, your dojo rules sound pretty strict. They mention the possible necessity of "sacrificing students" for the sake of the dojo and the existence of someone in the dojo called "dai-sensei". ?? Luckily from the pic you all look like decent, ordinary folk! :)

[Old Warrior]

Every month, seriously? Does your DoJo promote quickly? My sensei says once a year is plenty he says if you put in a good year it shows your deserve it...not that I am dissing your dojo just wondering why they promote so fast.

Holding a Promotion Test every month doesn't mean that they let you test. Also, I find it interesting that people are surprised that there is a fee to test. The dojang I attend is in a local shopping center (6 minutes from my home) that undoubtedly pays $26/ft. as rent and classes are available to attend 2-3 times a day. It is a business like any other. That does not inherently mean that the quality of instruction is poor or that the owner would ever promote someone to a significant rank who did not deserve it.

[Sithlord]

Ben..correction..maybe i should have worded it a bit better.

[Paul Kerr]

Jumping in a bit late to this thread, but what the heck. In my own experience kendo seems much freer of the grading b.s. that can negatively affect other martial arts. For example, in aikido (my background prior to kendo) the dojo in which I trained got people up to shodan in around 6-8 years. A sad phenomenon though was the fact that many (not all but enough to make it disturbing) dan graded students (teachers included) would then "hide" behind their grades - not train hard, basically abuse the sempai-kohai hierarchy to serve their own egos and make lots of excuses as to why they should be able to take it easy on the mat. One of the very negative effects of that was that unless you really made an effort to improve your progress tended to really plateau at around ni-dan. Lots of people would say that "grading isn't important' but the moment they got a dan grade they turned into prima donnas.

In kendo this seems to be less of an issue. It doesn't really matter what grade you have as you have to get in the dojo and make your shinai do the talking, not your belt. For me that is very refreshing.

[ben]

...A sad phenomenon though was the fact that many (not all but enough to make it disturbing) dan graded students (teachers included) would then "hide" behind their grades - not train hard, basically abuse the sempai-kohai hierarchy to serve their own egos and make lots of excuses as to why they should be able to take it easy on the mat. One of the very negative effects of that was that unless you really made an effort to improve your progress tended to really plateau at around ni-dan...

Well put Paul. People often assume the harsher the grading system the better. Of course it must be difficult enough to appear rigourous and therefore have some credibility, but you have described what can happen when it goes too far the other way.

I have done some aikido and seen that nidan = about 10 years. ALso coming from a kendo BG the whole preciousness about wearing hakama I find a bit laughable. Especially since the views of Ueshiba-sensei on hakama are well known (he thought everyone should wear hakama all the time and that gi pants were underwear and an insult to the dojo).

b

[Paul Kerr]

People often assume the harsher the grading system the better.

In 15 years of aikido training I saw exactly ONE person fail an exam. That was for 4th kyu and only because the head teacher on the grading panel had decided he didn't like the student. Where I trained in aikido it was basically assumed that you would get whatever grade you were put up for. That meant you would see people coming in to train near grading time, put in a few weeks of practice, do and pass their grading then disappear for nearly a year until the next gradings grew near. To my mind it ended up making a mockery out of the whole idea.

In the last couple of years of my training I was also sitting on the grading panel in my dojo and any sort of negative criticism was heavily frowned upon - to suggest that someone should "try again later" for a grade was seen as being very, very "un - aiki". Grading in that dojo was for ego, not for skill, effort, spirit or commitment.