Umpires/referees/judges etc.

[Giudo Yamaguchi]

Hello,
First off I don't practice any martial arts, but I do enjoy reading about them and watching others do them. So please be patient with me.

My questions: I have been watching some videos of the world championships (on some of the various European sites) held in America and am confussed about two things. I hope that you can all set me straight.

In some of the matches some players/practitioners (can't remember who, sorry) used a shot where the blade was at moved to behind them and then struck at their opponent's shin. (From waku to suni?) From my reading of the rules (again from various websites the US one is a good one) that move should not be counted as a valid strike. Yet it was allowed by the refferees. Please tell me which is correct?

Also, I have noticed that most of the judges are older ladies/men, understandable since they must have experience to judge fairly, but are they required to participate in tournaments also? Or once they get their license they are exempt?

If they are exempt why? I would think that they would be required to keep up their tournament ability so their skills at judging a valid strike point would remain fresh.

At the Kendo World Championships at home this year I think most of the judges were also still practicing fighting (Shinai?) on a regular basis.

By the way I found the videos to be very interesting and a good demonstration of the sport/art.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Sincerely,
Giudo Yamaguchi

[Wout]

hmm, In kendo sune is not a valid strike but I think in niganata it is.Why would they need shinprotectors anyway

[R A Sosnowski]

hmm, In kendo sune is not a valid strike but I think in niganata it is.Why would they need shinprotectors anyway

In Kendo Shiai, there is no Sune-uchi; if you try it, I believe it's a penalty call.

In Naginata Shiai, there is Sune-uchi; that's why we wear Sune-ate as you correctly observe.

In Isshu Jiai, Kendo vs. Naginata in this case, both parties wear Sune-ate, and both can do Sune-uchi. Since there are no formalized rules of this type of Shiai that I know of, calling the points is a bit vague. Since Kendo-ka are not trained in Sune-uchi, they rarely try the strike, especially since they end up being wide-open for a Men-uchi.

HTH.

[R A Sosnowski]

Hello,
First off I don't practice any martial arts, but I do enjoy reading about them and watching others do them. So please be patient with me.

My questions: I have been watching some videos of the world championships (on some of the various European sites) held in America and am confussed about two things. I hope that you can all set me straight.

In some of the matches some players/practitioners (can't remember who, sorry) used a shot where the blade was at moved to behind them and then struck at their opponent's shin. (From waku to suni?) From my reading of the rules (again from various websites the US one is a good one) that move should not be counted as a valid strike. Yet it was allowed by the refferees. Please tell me which is correct?

Without a specific example, I cannot say; however, I have seen such strikes called as valid points. As I have not yet begun Shimpan training (this summer), I am not sure of the specifics for calling this strike a point.

Also, I have noticed that most of the judges are older ladies/men, understandable since they must have experience to judge fairly, but are they required to participate in tournaments also? Or once they get their license they are exempt?

If they are exempt why? I would think that they would be required to keep up their tournament ability so their skills at judging a valid strike point would remain fresh.

In Naginata, there are three levels of grades:
Dangai (Mudansha): 6- to 1-Kyu
Yudansha: Shodan to 5-dan
Shogo: Renshi, Kyoshi, Hanshi

In Shiai, there are Dangai- and Yudansha-level events. Shogo holders are exempt from Shiai. However, Shogo are the formal teaching licenses, and they are the people instructing the Dangai and Yudansha, and passing on their experiences in Shiai.

There are three levels of Shimpan licenses, and you are eligible for Shimpan training at 3-dan. Each license has its requirements for training hours, time since the last license, etc., and each requires a formal examination with written and practical (physical) parts.

So, after this long preamble, there are Shimpan who are Yudansha (specifically 3- to 5-dan) and there are Shimpan who are Shogo. Yudansha can also participate in Shiai, Shogo cannot.

At the Kendo World Championships at home this year I think most of the judges were also still practicing fighting (Shinai?) on a regular basis.

I am unfamiliar with the Kendo regulations, so I cannot comment here - someone else familiar with them needs to reply.

By the way I found the videos to be very interesting and a good demonstration of the sport/art.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Sincerely,
Giudo Yamaguchi

HTH,

[Giudo Yamaguchi]

Thank you for taking hte time to reply to my questions.

I knew sune is a valid stirke zone but would like to know if from waku to sune is a valid strike or not.

And if the higher ranking umpires are not allowed to take part in tournaments how do they keep keen on the speed and validity of the strikes.


Have a nice day.

[Catherine]

In Kendo a shiai judge must train regularly, but is not necessarily required to compete.

In fact, the higher kendo grades (6 dan upwards) tend not to compete so much as once you reach those grades, competition is not as important to your kendo. (an big exception to this are the japanese and korean kendoka who are on the national teams. However even then they seem not to compete much past 35.)

Catherine

[Jakob Ryngen]

Sune from waki no gamai is a valid strike. It comes from a valid kamae and hits a valid area - and is also done in Zen Nihon no Kata no. 7. Can you quote the part in the rules where it says that it should not be a valid strike?

[xvikingx]

It comes from a valid kamae and hits a valid area -
I don't think filling those two requirments makes it a valid strike. If that were the case you could hit do from hasso. However it must be a valid strike since the judges raised their flags for it at the WNC. If not I think all shinpans are in dire need of a refreshment course.

Oh and Raymond, I am still working on the the blue book. Sorry about it getting so late but I am in the middle of changing jobs and bunch other stuff like wedding and what not. My apologies.

[Jakob Ryngen]

If that were the case you could hit do from hasso. Yeah, right... but in that case you would have some problems with the angle -you would have to change angle in midstrike. But from waki that is not the case.

[xvikingx]

I couldn't agree more, I was just using it as an example.

[R A Sosnowski]

Thank you for taking hte time to reply to my questions.

I knew sune is a valid stirke zone but would like to know if from waku to sune is a valid strike or not.

Yes, provided that "Ki Ken Tai Ichi" is observed.

And if the higher ranking umpires are not allowed to take part in tournaments how do they keep keen on the speed and validity of the strikes.

Have a nice day.

Shimpan with Shogo are still required to attend Shimpan seminars and they are in demand as Shimpan for large Taikai and as instructors for Shimpan training - there are plenty of mock Shiai to observe and critique. Like anything else, they stay sharp with lots of Keiko (practice).

HTH.

[R A Sosnowski]

I don't think filling those two requirments makes it a valid strike. If that were the case you could hit do from hasso. However it must be a valid strike since the judges raised their flags for it at the WNC. If not I think all shinpans are in dire need of a refreshment course.
With all the footage taken at 3WNC, I asked John Prough, who oversaw the filming operation, if we could eventually put together a Shimpan Training video from the extra footage. He has not ruled it out, but it's too early to commit given that he just rolled out the 3WNC videos/DVDs, and is currently working on the Friendship Tournament that followed 3WNC.


Oh and Raymond, I am still working on the the blue book. Sorry about it getting so late but I am in the middle of changing jobs and bunch other stuff like wedding and what not. My apologies.
No problem. We're all busy (for example, I'm preparing to demonstrate four arts including Atarashii Naginata at Sakura Matsuri in Washington, DC, on 3 April, and I have weekend Kyudo and Naginata seminars between now and then). I look forward to whatever you can decypher from that text.

Gambatte,

[xvikingx]

With all the footage taken at 3WNC, I asked John Prough, who oversaw the filming operation, if we could eventually put together a Shimpan Training video from the extra footage. He has not ruled it out, but it's too early to commit given that he just rolled out the 3WNC videos/DVDs, and is currently working on the Friendship Tournament that followed 3WNC.
That would great if there was reference tool like that for shimpans. There are three different shimpan levels; is that three different levels of knowledge (are there things they only teach to high level shinpans), or is it based on shinpan experience? I ask because it may end up being three seperate videos.

Gambatte,
Thank you, ganbarimasu!

[xvikingx]

Shimpan with Shogo are still required to attend Shimpan seminars and they are in demand as Shimpan for large Taikai and as instructors for Shimpan training
Wasn't that a problem at the last WNC? I heard that since the Japanese dropped out that there almost wasn't enough qualified shinpan.

[R A Sosnowski]

Wasn't that a problem at the last WNC? I heard that since the Japanese dropped out that there almost wasn't enough qualified shinpan.

I heard that too, but, since it was not a problem, I did not pursue it as I had way too many things to do. :D

[R A Sosnowski]

That would great if there was reference tool like that for shimpans. There are three different shimpan levels; is that three different levels of knowledge (are there things they only teach to high level shinpans), or is it based on shinpan experience? I ask because it may end up being three seperate videos.

Thank you, ganbarimasu!

My impression is that the levels correspond to responsibilities, and refining knowledge through experience.

As a practical matter, the need for such videos, in terms of numbers, would decrease for the higher levels. Then there is the matter of the number of langages for the sound tracks - each one needs to be scripted and authenticated for accuracy of content. It starts to become a combinatorial nightmare. :rolleyes:

I'd be happy to see just one well done in English & French. :happy:

Come to think of it, I don't know what kind of resources are available in Japanese - it's not something that seems to be commonly known outside of Japan. Every once in a while I accidently stumble across a little gem, like a Japanese tape of the Zen Nihon Kata. :D

[bakemokko]

Wasn't that a problem at the last WNC? I heard that since the Japanese dropped out that there almost wasn't enough qualified shinpan.
I was shinpan at WNC.
Please tell why we were not enough qualified shinpan?