which art and what sword?

[whitedragon]

I have been doing various martial arts most of my life (I am only 20 though). Judo as a child, Aikido, and most recently Wing Chun Kung Fu. I have always wanted to train as a swordsman though which I tried with fencing but I really want to use a Katana (although I am still unsure of the Katana Iaito boundary).



It seems there are two possible arts to train:



Kendo: Using a shinai to allow full contact competitive training.

Aiaido: The art of drawing a real sword and cutting to prevent combat being necessary.



My questions are:

1)Are the descriptions above accurate i.e. is Iaido solely about drawing the blade quickly

to make the first cut. Also is Kendo solely combat with a shinai?



2)I am getting a sword for my 21st (June 26th) and although I have not started training yet it has been my plan to get a really nice sword for this birthday for ages. The nicest one I have seen in my price range (around £500-£600) is the ‘Paul Chen Professional Orchid Katana.’ http://www.blades-uk.com/view_items.php?cat_id=15&start=10 (http://www.blades-uk.com/view_items.php?cat_id=15&start=10)

a)Is this a good sword for the money and would it be suitable for Iaido (or other arts I am as yet unaware of).

b)What other sword would you recommend in this price range. I really want a folded blade and something as beautiful as the Orchid above.

c)Is Paul Chen respected as a sword smith?

d)Is there some kind of clear hierarchy with sword smiths i.e this guy is good, this guy is better and the best are made by such and such. (Bear in mind I am in the UK but may order from abroad).

Many thanks

[Khabbi]

OK ill start from the top

1:Cutting is combat and kendo is more then just combat , theres Kata and other stuff .

2:
A: In Iaido you usualy start with bokken , then a Iaito , and then a sharp sword , that takes years sometimes , so its bad to buy a sharp sword for Iaido at the start

B:A Iaito from Swordstore.com is a good sword ,

C:Theres alot of posts about Mr Chen , you could check him out in those

D: Not sure what you're asking , but there are Smiths in Japan that do it "old school" , much more expencive .

[Kaoru]

I have been doing various martial arts most of my life (I am only 20 though). Judo as a child, Aikido, and most recently Wing Chun Kung Fu. I have always wanted to train as a swordsman though which I tried with fencing but I really want to use a Katana (although I am still unsure of the Katana Iaito boundary).



It seems there are two possible arts to train:



Kendo: Using a shinai to allow full contact competitive training.

Aiaido: The art of drawing a real sword and cutting to prevent combat being necessary.



My questions are:

1)Are the descriptions above accurate i.e. is Iaido solely about drawing the blade quickly

to make the first cut. Also is Kendo solely combat with a shinai?



2)I am getting a sword for my 21st (June 26th) and although I have not started training yet it has been my plan to get a really nice sword for this birthday for ages. The nicest one I have seen in my price range (around £500-£600) is the ‘Paul Chen Professional Orchid Katana.’ http://www.blades-uk.com/view_items.php?cat_id=15&start=10 (http://www.blades-uk.com/view_items.php?cat_id=15&start=10)

a)Is this a good sword for the money and would it be suitable for Iaido (or other arts I am as yet unaware of).

b)What other sword would you recommend in this price range. I really want a folded blade and something as beautiful as the Orchid above.

c)Is Paul Chen respected as a sword smith?

d)Is there some kind of clear hierarchy with sword smiths i.e this guy is good, this guy is better and the best are made by such and such. (Bear in mind I am in the UK but may order from abroad).

Many thanks

Hi whitedragon-san.

No sword please. Do you even KNOW how dangerous that is? I remember you from the Samurai Forum, but you never came back. I never got a chance to reply to your post there, because it got highjacked by an impolite person.

Tell whomever it is, you want a BOKUTO. Swords do not belong in the hands of an untrained person. Expect to get cut trying to use it. You run a VERY high risk of harming yourself and OTHERS as well, without proper instruction. There is Iaido in England. I really hope you are going to find instruction. Well, you won't even USE a live blade anyway for about 5-6 years in a legit dojo. The sensei won't allow it. It is a waste of the person's money to buy it for you now, because you will not be using it for that long, if even then.

The sword has to be cleaned every day and oiled. You can get CUT doing this without knowing anything before you have a sensei. And, you won't use a live blade(sharp edged blade) if the sensei says you may use a sword. You will be using an Iaito(blunt-edged sword) for the first 5-6 years. But first, you wull begin your training in a dojo using a bokuto first. This is so you learn proper ways to draw the sword without a problem. Trust me, it is a good idea to take my advice. If you ask on the Samurai Forum or e-budo.com, you will be told the same things.

Now, having said that, may I help you find a dojo? If you give me your location in England, I can help you find Iaido-possibly Kenjutsu, but that's extremely rare. I'm not sure if there are any legit Kenjutsu dojo there. I certainly am able to find out. Kendo is available there too. We all here can help you with that one. But, I keep a file of Iaido and Kenjutsu dojos and that's why I can help. I can check to see what I have and see if I can find anything, if I don't already have it.

So, if you want help, please let me know.

Kaoru

[Kaoru]

Oh, I don't like this 5 minute edit time...

Anyway... What I was going to add was...

Oh yes... it is always a good idea to wait anyway, because each sensei has certain requirements as to what length of tsuka and other things(ask on Samurai Forum) you need for the stye you will study. It's a shame to buy the wrong sword.

Kaoru

[Anjin-san]

Any legit kenjutsu dojo's in South East England? Is there a governing body for kenjutsu in the UK?

[Kaoru]

Any legit kenjutsu dojo's in South East England? Is there a governing body for kenjutsu in the UK?

Hi Anjin-san,

I can look. No, there is no govering body anywhere outside of Japan. It's not really one govering body, either. Hyaku-sensei can explain this in more depth than I can, as he practices/teaches Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu Kenjutsu in Japan.

Anyway, I will look for you. Would you be interested in Iaido, should I only be able to find that, or, even Kendo? I can search for all three. Kenjutsu is pretty rare... so, I'll try my best. There are a lot of fakes out there, too.

But, I'll be back when I find the information you asked for. Please give me a day or two at least. Finding Kendo is easy, but finding Kenjutsu and Iaido takes work. Thanks.

Oh, it will help if you give me the town you are in and near/ Say, how far from London and where exactly so I can look on a map. Since I am not as familiar with the town names, I'd be looking on a map to see if the dojo is fairly close to you or not. Oh, most likely, it won't be very close. This is quite common, and many of the Koryu(classical Japanese sword arts: Kenjutsu/Iaido) practitioners travel far to be able to train because of this. I just thought you ought to learn this now, so you aren't shocked.

So, please help by letting me know this, so I can do a more thorough search. Thanks.

Kaoru

[Musha]

If you want to do Iaido the BKA British kendo association is the governing body on that I think one of my Sensei's friends is one of the leading people in Iaido in the UK, he is on the governing board any way. Here is a link to the Kendo, Iaido and Jyodo Dojyo in the South east.

http://www.kendo.org.uk/dojo/england_se.shtml

Some kendo Dojyo in the UK have kendo and Iaido at the same Dojyo so if you have the money you could even do two :D.

[Kaoru]

If you want to do Iaido the BKA British kendo association is the governing body on that I think one of my Sensei's friends is one of the leading people in Iaido in the UK, he is on the governing board any way. Here is a link to the Kendo, Iaido and Jyodo Dojyo in the South east.

http://www.kendo.org.uk/dojo/england_se.shtml

Some kendo Dojyo in the UK have kendo and Iaido at the same Dojyo so if you have the money you could even do two :D.

Musha-san, there are two kinds of Iaido. Koryu(classical Japanese sword arts) Iaido-what he's probably interested in, and Seitei gata, the Kendo type of Iaido, which is NOT Koryu. Koryu Iaido sometimes, but not always, can be found in a Kendo dojo, and that is mostly MJER Iaido.

There is NO governing body for Koryu Iaido OR Kenjutsu. There IS a governing body for KENDO. See the difference? There is a BIG difference between the two. But, he can ask some sensei there too, and might get soe answers as well. But remember, not all Kendo sensei know a lot about Koryu. It's a good idea to gather information from all the available sources.

Kaoru

[Musha]

Hello Kaoru-chan :D

I don't think most Dojo teach Koryu style Iaido/Kenjyutu like maybe 'Niten ichi ryu' or 'Kashima shinden jikishinkage ryu kenjyutsu' but I know they do Shin iaido in the UK. I went to the AGM meeting and saw people doing Iaido with Hakama, Black Kimono with Name on breast.

Here is a link to a Dojyo in Birmingham.
http://www.masamunedojo.com/

[Kaoru]

Hello Kaoru-chan :D

I don't think most Dojo teach Koryu style Iaido/Kenjyutu like maybe 'Niten ichi ryu' or 'Kashima shinden jikishinkage ryu kenjyutsu' but I know they do Shin iaido in the UK. I went to the AGM meeting and saw people doing Iaido with Hakama, Black Kimono with Name on breast.

Here is a link to a Dojyo in Birmingham.
http://www.masamunedojo.com/

Hi Musha-san,

Kenjutsu is NEVER taught in a Kendo dojo that I have ever seen, if that is what you mean.

Yes, Koryu Kenjutsu and Iaido is taught in dojos that are not Kendo dojos there in England. :) Musha-san, I know you mean well, but please don't try to help anymore. Just let me do the research, ok?

I checked the site. That's Seitei Gata Iaido, and not Koryu, and not called Shin Iaido. There is no such thing as Shin Iaido. There is a BIG difference between the two, and yes Koryu can be taught in a Kendo dojo. It's less common, but it IS taught on occasion, should a sensei have a ranking high enough to teach it, and that would be MJER Koryu. I think it is best that I give him both options and he can see for himself which he wants. Koryu is more extensive than the Kendo Iaido, if I am not mistaken. Well, I know most Koryu people do not like the Seitei Gata but respect it. The Seitei Gata is new, within the last 50 years or so. It was created for the Kendoka.

Anyway, I'm going to come back... I just wish whitedragon-san gave me more info to work with. The searching would then be easier. Oh well. I'll just find whatever it is, and let him sort it out then.

Also thank you, I will forward this website to Hyaku-sensei, since they claim to teach Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu, and have taken a page from Hyaku-sensei's website and used it as their own. At least they left his name on it. I'd have recognised it anyway, if they hadn't left it there. The sensei has no lineage posted, so that's not good. Who knows who she is. Lineage is important... Especially when claiming to be a part of a Ryuha such as HNIR. Hopefully, he gave his permission and that. But since I don't know, I am going to share this with him.

Kaoru

[mingshi]

Bear in mind that koryu/ kenjutsu are OLD STUFF... They stay offline most of the time, and cannot be googled... You can get pieces of basic info here and there, but you have to knock on their door physically in person in order to train. Hence, the "Kenjutsu is never taught in a kendojo" is a very generalized statement.

I am not sure what you all mean by "Iaido is/ isn't Koryu"...etc... In my dojo the MSR Iai (shoden and up) is referred to "koryu", as comparing to seitei.

While in the UK, most of the sword arts dojo is covered in the http://www.kendo.org.uk listing, with plenty in the SE. That or where Chidokan is training.

If you still wonder "who knows who she is"... Masamune dojo is run by Fay Goodman (7 Dan Iaido I think, tho haven't met in person but her name was around for a looong time).

On a personal note - I notice there is an increasing amount of interest in the Japanese sword arts... But asking "where can I train" in an online forum is not going to get you anywhere. It is even one step worse than finding self-help tapes, because you are getting the second-hand information. How do you know if the person answering really knows what they are talking about? If someone replies NO, that doesn't reallymean there is no where to train. Knowing where to look is as important...

Meanwhile the one who started this thread... I m still not sure how serious you want to train, really.

<end rant>

[Musha]

:rolleyes: Another hate post, why can't people just get along any more :D.


There is no such thing as Shin Iaido. I made up the word Shin Iaido beeing the leader of my own Dojyo in my living room ;). Shin means new as you said


The Seitei Gata is new, within the last 50 years or so. It was created for the Kendoka..

But maybe as in the Koryubujyutsu book it is better to call Koryu Iaido Iaijyutsu.


Musha-san, I know you mean well, but please don't try to help anymore. Just let me do the research, ok?
And thank you for this. I think Viking would say "Shut up Musha Dumass you dont knew nothin, I know more than you go away. Even if you do not live in the UK...

This forum is for every one you know :wink:.

[Kaoru]

Bear in mind that koryu/ kenjutsu are OLD STUFF... They stay offline most of the time, and cannot be googled... You can get pieces of basic info here and there, but you have to knock on their door physically in person in order to train. Hence, the "Kenjutsu is never taught in a kendojo" is a very generalized statement.

I am not sure what you all mean by "Iaido is/ isn't Koryu"...etc... In my dojo the MSR Iai (shoden and up) is referred to "koryu", as comparing to seitei.

While in the UK, most of the sword arts dojo is covered in the http://www.kendo.org.uk listing, with plenty in the SE. That or where Chidokan is training.

If you still wonder "who knows who she is"... Masamune dojo is run by Fay Goodman (7 Dan Iaido I think, tho haven't met in person but her name was around for a looong time).

On a personal note - I notice there is an increasing amount of interest in the Japanese sword arts... But asking "where can I train" in an online forum is not going to get you anywhere. It is even one step worse than finding self-help tapes, because you are getting the second-hand information. How do you know if the person answering really knows what they are talking about? If someone replies NO, that doesn't reallymean there is no where to train. Knowing where to look is as important...

Meanwhile the one who started this thread... I m still not sure how serious you want to train, really.

<end rant>


Hi Mingshi-san,

Actually, you CAN google them or do a Yahoo search. I keep a list of Koryu dojo in both Iaido and Kenjutsu to help people find it if they wish. I have other resources(mainly people) to get my information from, as well, when I need to check on a dojo I have searched for and found. If you ask on the Samurai Forum, the people there will confirm this, as I do this sort of thing there a lot. Finding dojos, that is. The only thing is, one has to be very careful to make sure the dojo found is legit. That's why I have other resources to cross reference with. Trust me, it can be a pain to hunt them down. Finding Koryu is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Kendo is relatively easy to find, on the other hand. It is up to the person I found the dojo for, to then go to the sensei and ask to be taught.

Actually, Kenjutsu is almost never taught in a Kendo dojo. I should have said almost never instead, now that you mention it, because there is always the one that could teach a legit style... as long as they hold Menkyo to teach it, and have the permission from Japan to do so.


If you still wonder "who knows who she is"... Masamune dojo is run by Fay Goodman (7 Dan Iaido I think, tho haven't met in person but her name was around for a looong time).

Ok, I saw only that much. I meant I wanted more information than just that. I should have stated it more clearly. Sorry about that. I was talking about lineage, not her rank, which I already know. Her lineage to HNIR is not listed on her site and neither her rank or mention of Menkyo in HNIR are on it, anywhere. That is what I was looking for. This information is important to knowing whether or not it is an authorised HNIR dojo. Her style of Iaido was not listed as well, which should have been listed. I assumed it is Seitei Gata Iaido, because of the link she provided talking about it. All it says that she holds the rank of 7th dan in Iaido. So, until I know otherwise, she must teach Seitei Gata Iaido. I wish there was not such a lack of information on her site.


On a personal note - I notice there is an increasing amount of interest in the Japanese sword arts... But asking "where can I train" in an online forum is not going to get you anywhere. It is even one step worse than finding self-help tapes, because you are getting the second-hand information. How do you know if the person answering really knows what they are talking about? If someone replies NO, that doesn't reallymean there is no where to train. Knowing where to look is as important...

This is not true. You can indeed ask people online where to train. But, be sure the person you are asking, can back up his/her information and show their resources, if you really are not sure if they know what they are talking about. And, no-one can aways be correct 100 percent of the time in regard to information. Although, I try hard to be as accurate as possible. However, there are those who never research anything and just put up information without knowing what it is. This is what is not good.

Kaoru

[Kaoru]

:rolleyes: Another hate post, why can't people just get along any more :D.

Musha-san,

If my post was a hate post, you'd have known it. I'd have told you off, which anyway, is unlikely and never going to happen. I don't like telling others off.


I made up the word Shin Iaido beeing the leader of my own Dojyo in my living room ;). Shin means new as you said.

No, I mean new as in Gendai. That is the proper term for a legit JSA that was created within the last 100 years or so. Yours is just a made up thing you do for fun.


But maybe as in the Koryubujyutsu book it is better to call Koryu Iaido Iaijyutsu.

Iaido and Iaijutsu are the same thing. Some would argue there is something of a difference, but really, there is not.


And thank you for this. I think Viking would say "Shut up Musha Dumass you dont knew nothin, I know more than you go away. Even if you do not live in the UK...

This forum is for every one you know :wink:.

But Musha-san, you don't know a lot about Koryu at all. It is apparent in your posts. And, I mean no offense at all. It is just that you lack in good research. If you did thorough research and had good resources, he wouldn't tell you to go away and be quiet. But, you don't. It isn't a question of the childish, "I know more than you." It is the fact that you never research anything thoroughly and get it all wrong almost every time.
I really am not trying to insult you. Honest. You could take my words and use them to your advantage and learn better research skills. That would be helpful to you. I'd rather be of help than anything else. :)

Kaoru

[Kaoru]

I am not sure what you all mean by "Iaido is/ isn't Koryu"...etc... In my dojo the MSR Iai (shoden and up) is referred to "koryu", as comparing to seitei.

While in the UK, most of the sword arts dojo is covered in the http://www.kendo.org.uk listing, with plenty in the SE. That or where Chidokan is training.


Hi Mingshi-san,

I somehow missed the above. Please excuse me. MSR Iaido is indeed a Koryu art. I know what Koryu is. I know what Seitei is too. I looked on the site you gave and yes, lots of Iaido is listed, but I'd be willing to bet that it is mostly the Seitei Iaido and only some with Koryu Iaido, being either MJER or MSR. Thanks by the way, I thought there must be one more Koryu taught in Kendo dojos but couldn't remember, so I just mentioned MJER Iaido. I'm not sure if any other Koryu Ryuha of Iaido is taught in a Kendo dojo. Those are the only two I have seen so far.

Koryu does not have to be affiliated with a Kendo association. It can stand on it's own and mostly does. If you noticed, nowhere does it say Kenjutsu anywhere on the site you posted for me. I looked. This does not mean Kenjutsu must not exist. It DOES exist, and it is not associated with a Kendo association. Lineage is in Japan. And, so is the Soke of that Ryu, providing it is legit. It, as far as I have known, never has been a part of a Kendo dojo. But, like I said in my other post, there is a first time for everything.

Iaido is/isn't Koryu:

Ok, Iaido defined, is the art of drawing and cutting in one motion. This is the most basic of definitions. It applies to both Gendai Iaido and Koryu Iaido. BOTH are Iaido. However, some Ryuha is Koryu or, a Classical Japanese Sword Art. This is the general definition of Koryu, not the literal translation of the word. Some like Toyama Ryu batto-do(Read: Iaido. Batto-do, battojutsu are both Iaido. They are just other words for it.) are Gendai arts. It has nothing to to with the Kendo association whatsoever. Gendai are the newer JSA.

Note: I'm not an expert, but I do read a lot and ask experienced practitioners of both Kenjutsu and Iaido lots of questions to check what I read. I'm always asking somebody something. My reason? I hope to someday study one of these two arts, preferably Kenjutsu.

Here is an excellent link about the difference between Koryu and Gendai. The question was asked, and Dr. Karl Friday, who teaches Kashima Shinryu Kenjutsu and is one of only two sensei in the US authorised to teach the art, gave a very good explanation of what they are. He also is a professor of Japanese History. Here it is:

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7478&highlight=What+is+Gendai

Kaoru

[mingshi]

Actually, you CAN google them or do a Yahoo search...
Hmmm hold on... what makes you think all kenjutsu has a website?


Actually, Kenjutsu is almost never taught in a Kendo dojo. I should have said almost never instead, now that you mention it, because there is always the one that could teach a legit style... as long as they hold Menkyo to teach it, and have the permission from Japan to do so.
To keep it simple enough for your understanding, only a few of the luckier ones can last long enough for a Menkyo. Outside Japan many followed the "study group" route, someone learned something and starts sharing. It's not a formal thing. Hardly anyone claimed to be "authorized" or "qualified".

At least this is my experience.

For the case of Masamune dojo... ScottUK in E-budo is a student of Fay Goodman. Fay is also the PRO of the BKA if I m correct.

I don't see the point pasting all the Menkyo or whatever documents to show your lineage - as long as they know what they are doing.

Over here in the UK, the Niten Ichi Ryu name will be heard once in a while... I guess they host a seminar every now and then. Peter West's name comes to my mind...

Other Koryu have individuals practicing... I know a few here thru Kendo alone.

edit: Kaoru do you train Iaido at all?? I m pretty sure even tho Iaidojo training Seitei in AJKF, they have to do Koryu Iai at some stage of their training... You can't get pass 4Dan without any Koryu on you...

[Kaoru]

Hmmm hold on... what makes you think all kenjutsu has a website?

I never said that. I can't explain how I find the LEGIT dojos I have found for people on the web, but you CAN find them on the web and through others by ASKING them. I also know who to talk to for information. Finding Koryu is HARD however, when the people you ask do not know. I've soemtimes found it impossible and never come up with anything.


To keep it simple enough for your understanding, only a few of the luckier ones can last long enough for a Menkyo.

That is precisely why there are so few Koryu dojo around.


Outside Japan many followed the "study group" route, someone learned something and starts sharing. It's not a formal thing. Hardly anyone claimed to be "authorized" or "qualified".

I know a lot about it. Not everything, but I DO know where to look, who to ask. Yes, I know what study groups are... There are several here I know of in the US on my list I would point people to. Study groups DO have to be authorised, by the way. You don't just start sharing. There aren't a lot of them, either.


At least this is my experience.

For the case of Masamune dojo... ScottUK in E-budo is a student of Fay Goodman. Fay is also the PRO of the BKA if I m correct.

That is good to know and I did see that she holds a 7 dan. That's not what I was wondering anyway. I just want to know about the HNIR. I'd LIKE to know for my list, if it is a real study group.


I don't see the point pasting all the Menkyo or whatever documents to show your lineage - as long as they know what they are doing.

It does matter, There are actually groups that claim lineage but are not really legit out there. It does happen sometimes. You don't take a photo of it, you just tell what Menkyo you hold. or, say where you trained, and that, and people can ask you for more information.

I hope it is an actual study group. If it is, great! She linked to Hyaku-sensei's site, so it might be. I'm not saying it is not. I just want to know. I mean, there is so little information there, that I am curious. Gah, it is touchy to explain what I mean without sounding negative and say something I don't intend.


Over here in the UK, the Niten Ichi Ryu name will be heard once in a while... I guess they host a seminar every now and then. Peter West's name comes to my mind...

Peter West? I haven't heard of him yet. I wouldn't doubt that there would be HNIR seminars. There are in other countries, too.


Other Koryu have individuals practicing... I know a few here thru Kendo alone.

Well, as long as it is in a legit Ryu that they haven't been teaching themselves but trained with a sensei, that's fine. I know at least one person here in my own dojo who does that because when he came back from Japan after living there for several years, the Ryu happened to exist in only one state and that wasn't close enough for him to travel to. So, he just practices by himself.


edit: Kaoru do you train Iaido at all?? I m pretty sure even tho Iaidojo training Seitei in AJKF, they have to do Koryu Iai at some stage of their training... You can't get pass 4Dan without any Koryu on you...

No. I wish. Our dojo has no Iaido, and I had to miss an Iaido seminar too, because my Mom wouldn't drive me(I live 2 1/2 hrs from my dojo.) to where my sensei and dojomates where so I could get a ride to it. All of them got to go except me. :( I just read a lot and bug people who are trained in it and Kenjutsu with tons of questions. There is Iaido near my dojo, but just my luck, it is at just about the same time my dojo has practice, so I can't make it there. I prefer Kenjutsu though(None available here.), but think both are very pretty. I've seen both demonstrated in documentaries on the History Channel. But, they were only one Ryu of each. It was incredible.

Oh yeah... forgot about your last sentence. Yeah, I know. I heard that too.

Anyway, I am not beyond learning new things, and getting told something I said was a bit off. The more one knows the better, IMHO.

Kaoru

[Musha]

Hi Kaoru,

I don't want to get into an augment and there is no need to any way. You talk a lot about research that you seem to have some pride about but say your self that you have not experience of Kenjyutsu or Iaido Iaijyutsu.

Before I went to Japan I had the idea that you could learn a lot from research or a book but my host mother said that it was a bad thing. I have been studding Japanese for a wile and find that a good book is very important but Budo is a different matter. Experience is extremely important and there is no way to get around it, books and videos in my view are only for inspiration and until you practice a martial art how ever much your research you will not understand what is it about. This is quite obvious.
And also you can not say that you understand Koryu more than me or any one on this forum until you have practised it and got an insight into it.

And your view on legitimacy seems to be a disadvantage in my view. Unless you go to Japan and find a Ryu-ha soke you might always find that your Dojyo seems to be lacking in some way. In the UK even Kendo seems to lack what you feel when practising in Japan and I would say that the best thing to do is to go to Japan.
My Dojyo and Emitbrown’s that I go to from time to time could be said not to be legitimate because there are not Japanese Sensei of 8th Dan grade.

We all must make do, I think they are both extremely good Dojyo and when I went to Japan I could practice without feeling like I did not know what I was doing because the Japanese dojyo was almost like mine at home.
If you feel that you must find a so called legitimate Dojyo I feel your mind will become narrow. I feel Budo should not be narrow, it should be open it should not be based on strict rules and strictly defined actions. I read in ‘Kendo jyoutatsu’ book that it is best to consider a grade as to show you have passed to the next level like moving from grade to grade at school it is not some thing to boast about. I would not be at all concerned what grade my Sensei was any way..

So in conclusion, unless your Sensei is very inexperienced and you clearly find his or her teaching to be incorrect. If there is a Dojyo near you that teaches a style you like you should never be concerned if your teacher is of a high enough standard just go practice and find out!! :wink:

You too Kaoru :D.

[Musha]

Any way more to the point, here is a Dojyo that teaches both Aikido and Kashima shinryu kenjyutsu it has a great website from my point of view :D.

http://www.movingeast.co.uk/tetsushinkan/ksr.html

I wish I could do Aikido again lol..
Try searching for Koryu and try thinking of the type of style you would like to do.

[Kaoru]

Any way more to the point, here is a Dojyo that teaches both Aikido and Kashima shinryu kenjyutsu it has a great website from my point of view :D.

http://www.movingeast.co.uk/tetsushinkan/ksr.html

I wish I could do Aikido again lol..
Try searching for Koryu and try thinking of the type of style you would like to do.

Musha-san,

Do not post dojos unless you have checked that the Koryu is really the real deal. Yes, Kashima Shinryu IS a real Koryu. But, you should never arbitarily post a dojo with Koryu unless you have checked WITH the proper people! You do not know who these people are to check with. I DO. You check NOT in public, either. YES people try to teach Koryu without permission. That's why you check FIRST before posting the dojo.

Just stop, Musha-san.

Kaoru

[Musha]

:rolleyes: Sorry Kaoru but I don't have the money to go to Japan track down the Kashima Shinryu Soke ask him if he knows of a Dojyo in London and to write me a report on its Legitimacy.

Anjin asked a simple question and I gave two simple answers Mingshi also said the same as me about the BKA site.


But, I'll be back when I find the information you asked for. Please give me a day or two at least. Finding Kendo is easy, but finding Kenjutsu and Iaido takes work. Thanks. You have not given a shred of info it has been three days already.

かおるさん、くだらないもの辞めてね　;).

[Kaoru]

Hi Musha-san,


I don't want to get into an augment and there is no need to any way. You talk a lot about research that you seem to have some pride about but say your self that you have not experience of Kenjyutsu or Iaido Iaijyutsu.

Research means you read and know what the sources are and know who is authorised to teach what. And, it means having personal contacts to whom you can trust and go to, that can confirm whether or not a dojo is legit. I don't have to be a student in the art to know what is good or not. You have to be thorough and understand that you can't just post whatever you see without careful inspection of what you hear about and see. Pride? NO. I enjoy helping others, that is all.

I don't have to be a student of either art to know where to find my information and to do thorough, careful research BEFORE I post the dojo I find. Now, if I were to go farther and try to explain techniques and the details of each art such as the types of cuts and that, then yes, I should first be a student of either art. That is where the difference IS. You seem to fail to understand this difference. THOSE things cannot be learned correctly with just references and books. An untrained person should NEVER try to explain techniques they themselves are NOT studying.

Example: Now, if somebody asked me, what is sheathing and sheathing called. I can give them the correct terms. BUT: I should NEVER try to explain anything else other than just give terms. Do you know why this is? I could get a person injured by my explanation, since I do not know a thing about how to do the techniques, and I'd be negligent if I dared to try to explain it to somebody, even if I HAVE watched footage of it. BIG difference between finding a dojo and knowing how to find out if it is a legit place and actually telling peoole how to do something in Iaido/Kenjutsu.
My Kendo sensei wowuld have a FIT if I tried to tell people I knew Iaido techniques and that and then tried to tell others how to do them. I couldn't do it ethically, anyhow. I wouldn't want to get a person hurt.


Before I went to Japan I had the idea that you could learn a lot from research or a book but my host mother said that it was a bad thing. I have been studding Japanese for a wile and find that a good book is very important but Budo is a different matter. Experience is extremely important and there is no way to get around it, books and videos in my view are only for inspiration and until you practice a martial art how ever much your research you will not understand what is it about. This is quite obvious.
And also you can not say that you understand Koryu more than me or any one on this forum until you have practised it and got an insight into it.

Musah-san, if you have read any of my posts, you'll see that I have told people this. I know a lot about Koryu, enough that I know which resources are good, and are bad, and I do have people to cross-reference with. I don't have to be practicing it to find people dojos and do a decent job of it, by being CAREFUL and not just putting up whatever I see, like you have been doing. You run a risk doing that.


And your view on legitimacy seems to be a disadvantage in my view. Unless you go to Japan and find a Ryu-ha soke you might always find that your Dojyo seems to be lacking in some way. In the UK even Kendo seems to lack what you feel when practising in Japan and I would say that the best thing to do is to go to Japan.
My Dojyo and Emitbrown’s that I go to from time to time could be said not to be legitimate because there are not Japanese Sensei of 8th Dan grade.

This is where you should not say anything. You don't NEED to go to Japan to know what is legit or not, if you have the proper resources to be able to check.Only in extreme cases, would one want to actualy go to Japan and check there in the books. And, the rank of a sensei does NOT tell if a dojo is legit by the way. Thought you should know that.


If you feel that you must find a so called legitimate Dojyo I feel your mind will become narrow. I feel Budo should not be narrow, it should be open it should not be based on strict rules and strictly defined actions. I read in ‘Kendo jyoutatsu’ book that it is best to consider a grade as to show you have passed to the next level like moving from grade to grade at school it is not some thing to boast about. I would not be at all concerned what grade my Sensei was any way..

You just do not get it. Yes, a dojo should be legit. There are McDojo all over the place, as well as others claiming to teach a Koryu or Gendai, and they turn out to be these self-taught people out to make money off people who don't know better. I've seen several of these already, that I've have to discard as a dojo to post. Go read the Krappy Karate Kamae thread in the Sword Arts forum of e-budo.com. Then, check out the Baffling Budo forum there, too. There are LOTS of suspect organisations that claim to teach JSA.

The reason you don't understand? You think GRADE means legitimacy. Grade, does NOT mean legitimacy at all. It is just a FACTOR that adds up TO the person's or organisations's legitimacy. There are those that give themselves ranks if you didn't already know this. Now, this discussion shoukd be ended, because I do my checking OFF the board, and it is not something I like to talk about, because it is not a proper thing to be talking about. Reseaching dojos is not to be discussed in public.


So in conclusion, unless your Sensei is very inexperienced and you clearly find his or her teaching to be incorrect. If there is a Dojyo near you that teaches a style you like you should never be concerned if your teacher is of a high enough standard just go practice and find out!! :wink:

You too Kaoru :D.

This is why you should never post dojos yourself. You don't CARE if the person is a fake or legit sensei. A person darn well ought to be concerned, because it is the difference between learning an art properly and/or NOT losing a finger as opposed to learning things wrong or, being taught things in a dangerous way. I certainly would check out who it was I wanted to train with before signing up for classes. Especially if it concerns the use of a sword. A person can claim as much experience they want, and still not be legit. It is best to be careful and just check. Koryu is rare. That is WHY one should be careful and check.

Kaoru

[Kaoru]

:rolleyes: Sorry Kaoru but I don't have the money to go to Japan track down the Kashima Shinryu Soke ask him if he knows of a Dojyo in London and to write me a report on its Legitimacy.

Anjin asked a simple question and I gave two simple answers Mingshi also said the same as me about the BKA site.

You have not given a shred of info it has been three days already.

かおるさん、くだらないもの辞めてね　;).

That is because you waste my TIME and won't be quiet! I only have a certain amount of time in the DAY.

Yoi don't need to GO to Japan. I can find out easily, if you like, since you are so keen on testing me. But, I think what you are doing is impolite.

Check your PM box in a few please. :)

Kaoru

[Hai_hai]

That is because you waste my TIME and won't be quiet! I only have a certain amount of time in the DAY.

Yoi don't need to GO to Japan. I can find out easily, if you like, since you are so keen on testing me. But, I think what you are doing is impolite.

Check your PM box in a few please. :)

Kaoru

Did you start kendo a couple of months ago?
What makes you think you are some kind of information guru of koryu from just web browsing?

BAKA!

[mingshi]

Any way more to the point, here is a Dojyo that teaches both Aikido and Kashima shinryu kenjyutsu ...
http://www.movingeast.co.uk/tetsushinkan/ksr.html

Aye, I was about to knock on their door last year but I haven't got the time! Even worse is that I moved away. Arrgh.

I don't know what your legitimate standard is, but Stan Lee from Wakaba dojo trains Kashima Shin Ryu there (who is also on E-budo).

As for Kaoru... Try not to assume everything to be fake, if you haven't heard of it in E-budo. It has a lot but not everything. Even Koryu.com's Ryuha list is not comprehensive in my POV, or should I say, their info is a bit limited...

Seems to me that Kaoru your koryu list is a bit short for this part of the continent. Peter West (6 Dan Iai I think) has a lot to do with Niten Ichi Ryu seminars in the UK and Europe. This is the last thing google-able. In case you can't research about him at your end... try Cornwall... Then you'll see his lineage.

[Kaoru]

Aye, I was about to knock on their door last year but I haven't got the time! Even worse is that I moved away. Arrgh.

I don't know what your legitimate standard is, but Stan Lee from Wakaba dojo trains Kashima Shin Ryu there (who is also on E-budo).

That's why I ask questions privately, and not in public. if I need to. If I never heard of the dojo, I should check it out, right? Yes. Dr. Karl Friday could tell me if I asked him.


As for Kaoru... Try not to assume everything to be fake, if you haven't heard of it in E-budo. It has a lot but not everything. Even Koryu.com's Ryuha list is not comprehensive in my POV, or should I say, their info is a bit limited...

Oh, I know that. But, it makes good sense to make sure the information is right. That is why I am careful. Yes, Koryu.com's list is not comprehensive, as Neil has shown me. I would feel pretty stupid if I posted something and it turned out wrong.


Seems to me that Kaoru your koryu list is a bit short for this part of the continent. Peter West (6 Dan Iai I think) has a lot to do with Niten Ichi Ryu seminars in the UK and Europe. This is the last thing google-able. In case you can't research about him at your end... try Cornwall... Then you'll see his lineage.

Yes, my list is pretty short for the UK, unfortunately. That's why I wanted to know. I've just started a list for the UK. I don't know a lot about what is available in the UK, so I ask questions. Better to ask, then look like an idiot. Thank you for the information, and I really do appreciate it. In it goes to my list! :) I just pasted this information into my dojo file.

Kaoru

[Kaoru]

Did you start kendo a couple of months ago?
What makes you think you are some kind of information guru of koryu from just web browsing?

BAKA!

Baka yourself, Hai Hai-san,

If you bothered to read my posts, you'd see I do a lot more than just browsing. I never said I am an information Guru, FYE. I don't want to be known as that, either. It was an ACCIDENT that I ended up searching like I do, and I didn't intend on doing this. Koryu people on the other forum sometimes tell others to ask me for help. I didn't decide I know this or that. Gah, just DROP THIS please.

This is what started this discussion in the first place. I had replied to Mingshi-san, and it was NOT meant to be taken out of context like it has.


Actually, you CAN google them or do a Yahoo search. I keep a list of Koryu dojo in both Iaido and Kenjutsu to help people find it if they wish. I have other resources(mainly people) to get my information from, as well, when I need to check on a dojo I have searched for and found. If you ask on the Samurai Forum, the people there will confirm this, as I do this sort of thing there a lot. Finding dojos, that is. The only thing is, one has to be very careful to make sure the dojo found is legit. That's why I have other resources to cross reference with. Trust me, it can be a pain to hunt them down. Finding Koryu is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Kendo is relatively easy to find, on the other hand. It is up to the person I found the dojo for, to then go to the sensei and ask to be taught.

I only had to back myself up, when people didn't get it, about what I said.

I don't have to practice either Koryu to help people. I just have to be sure I KNOW my information is correct.

I've seen Koryu people find Kendo dojos on the Samurai Forum, and I am not going to ask THEM if they study Kendo or not. See my point? I wish I had just ignored what Mingshi asked now, because this is being taken completely out of context. For heaven sakes, I am NOT giving out information about the art ITSELF!

Sigh... :( :( I only mentioned it, because I felt I had to. I never have to anywhere else. I never talk about it. I don't WANT to talk about it. It's something I do for fun, because it is FUN to help others out. :( :(

Kaoru

[Musha]

Kaoru..
This is why you should never post dojos yourself. You don't CARE if the person is a fake or legit sensei. A person darn well ought to be concerned, because it is the difference between learning an art properly and/or NOT losing a finger as opposed to learning things wrong or, being taught things in a dangerous way. I certainly would check out who it was I wanted to train with before signing up for classes. Especially if it concerns the use of a sword. A person can claim as much experience they want, and still not be legit. It is best to be careful and just check. Koryu is rare. That is WHY one should be careful and check.

Kaoru is this why you are so concerned?!! :D. About five years ago when I was about 14 me my mother and my mothers boy friend wanted to do some kind of martial art. My mother was doing Tai-chi and heard of a Karate Dojyo that we participated in for one lesson. We found it was not good for some reason and looked some where else. We then found a Iaido dojyo but it was very small and my mother thought it looked dangerous so in the end we decided on an Aikido Dojyo. After a year and a half and getting 6 kyu we had to quit because of expense but I found I liked the sword and Jyou work more than the Aikido its self so after another few years I joined a Kendo dojyo I found on the Internet. It had no web site and I did not know a thing about Kendo at the time but now I feel that the dojyo I chose was very good and I am happy.

I think it is interesting that you want to write a list of world Kenjyutsu and Koryu dojyo with special Kaoru approval but the best way to find out if you like some thing is to go there and find out for your self. Even without experience of that art you would have to be a stupid person not to know if it was dangerous. It is total crap to think that you will loose a finger if the dojyo sensei does not have a menkyo or some thing.

Lastly some people on this forum seem to have a very bad attitude. If Kaoru you had not told me to shut up because I am stupid. Then maybe we would have not got into this arguing situation and the person that asked this question in the first place would have got his answer that is irrelevant now. Do you remember his name without looking? I bet you don't, because this hole post has gone to the dogs.

Kaoru you told me that I was a sad person because I did not trust people. Every think you have said shows that you your self don't trust any of the Sensei in the UK and I think this is extremely rude. Maybe there are a lot of none legitimate Dojyo in America but I don't think so about the UK.

P.s Thank you for your PMs but they just say that same as you are saying here. Like Hai_Hai said you seem to think that you know more than other people and your language is too arrogant.

Well I am getting bored. I'll fold my arms and wait for your list of Kenjyutsu Dojyo in London :).

[Kaoru]

Kaoru is this why you are so concerned?!! :D. About five years ago when I was about 14 me my mother and my mothers boy friend wanted to do some kind of martial art. My mother was doing Tai-chi and heard of a Karate Dojyo that we participated in for one lesson. We found it was not good for some reason and looked some where else. We then found a Iaido dojyo but it was very small and my mother thought it looked dangerous so in the end we decided on an Aikido Dojyo. After a year and a half and getting 6 kyu we had to quit because of expense but I found I liked the sword and Jyou work more than the Aikido its self so after another few years I joined a Kendo dojyo I found on the Internet. It had no web site and I did not know a thing about Kendo at the time but now I feel that the dojyo I chose was very good and I am happy.

Excuse me Musha, you are only 18 or 19. Not old enough to get a sense of the real picture. Safety comes first. YES that is a good reason to be concerned.


I think it is interesting that you want to write a list of world Kenjyutsu and Koryu dojyo with special Kaoru approval but the best way to find out if you like some thing is to go there and find out for your self. Even without experience of that art you would have to be a stupid person not to know if it was dangerous. It is total crap to think that you will loose a finger if the dojyo sensei does not have a menkyo or some thing.

Stop making things up Musha. It is NOT MY approval. It is the fact that they are LEGIT is what is the approval. The dojo can stand on it's own feet if it has the correct credentials. Some people DON'T know what is dangerous or not. And, what is this losing a finger if the sensei doesn't have menkyo? A person can CREATE Menkyo for themselves. That's WHY you check sometimes if it is not obvious. Ask that on e-budo. It has happened. You should not be talking, Musha. The list I have is a LIST of LEGIT dojo I have found either on my own and gotten checked by other knowledgeable people, or, ones found FOR me by other Koryu practitioners. It has NOTHING to do with approval by ME. I do not approve them. Understand? I just have a list I decided to keep, and that is ALL. It beats having to find them again every single time.


Lastly some people on this forum seem to have a very bad attitude. If Kaoru you had not told me to shut up because I am stupid. Then maybe we would have not got into this arguing situation and the person that asked this question in the first place would have got his answer that is irrelevant now. Do you remember his name without looking? I bet you don't, because this hole post has gone to the dogs.

You have just called yourself stupid. I never said that, or for you to shut up and you know it. Do not lie and make things up. Disgraceful, that is. Of course. Whitedragon-san. And NO I did not look. YOU began this whole thing, with your comments. Now you can be quiet.


Kaoru you told me that I was a sad person because I did not trust people. Every think you have said shows that you your self don't trust any of the Sensei in the UK and I think this is extremely rude. Maybe there are a lot of none legitimate Dojyo in America but I don't think so about the UK.

I never said you were sad and that you didn't trust people. NOWHERE did I say that in either PM or here. Do I need to prove this? By the way, asking about a dojo is not a problem. It is a smart thing to do if one is not sure. And, it is not a crime to be unsure. You need to understand this. It is not rude to check out a dojo. What IS rude, is to automatically call it non-legit without checking first. Also, you do not know what is or isn't legit in the UK any more than I do. That is a fact. We both know that the dojos listed on the BKA website ARE legit, so there you go. But, I am talking KORYU here. They are more difficult.


P.s Thank you for your PMs but they just say that same as you are saying here. Like Hai_Hai said you seem to think that you know more than other people and your language is too arrogant.

Actually, they do not. I do not think I know more than other people. I think you need to grow up a little and sit back and just listen. My language is not arrogant. I am speaking in an educated manner that one uses when speaking to those one does not know. Arrogant is bragging about something. This I have not done at all.


Well I am getting bored. I'll fold my arms and wait for your list of Kenjyutsu Dojyo in London :).

I wouldn't give you any lists I have. Also, as I said, I have very little UK information right now. This is because I haven't had to look there more than once, and there wasn't a need for a UK list before. You know, I am NOT the only person with knowledge of other dojos. I can name two Koryu people who keep such lists. But, it would be rude to give their names without their permission.

If you are bored, go practice and stop talking. This is the end of this discussion. Thank you.

Kaoru

[Hyaku]

Perhaps Koaru was refering to my particular ryu?

If I could add a bit to make things clear from here in Japan and try to answer anjin's question.

It really is not a matter of legitimacy. Web links and information should not be taken as official. Some ask for links, others dont!

I carry no such links and affiliations as yet on my homepage. Such the HNIR establish such affiliations with groups that are closely linked with us in practice and not the web information I will link up with them.

As yet "All" HNIR done outside Japan is from one of two sources.

1. A few hours practice here in Japan with us.

2. Instruction from a second party who was not connected to us.

Having seen the latter first hand I can assure everyone that it bears little resemblance to what we do here in Japan.

We hope to remedy this in the future. All we need is time, a passport and above all money to try and break even. We are slowly making new friends and contacts and managing to start workgroups in other countries. There are a lot of people out there in other countrys that have attended our seminars and are working hard at it. Up to now the UK is not one of them.

Four people from Roshukai UK came over to Japan and have visited the hombu. Gavin Threipland BKA Treasurer was on the Canada 2003 seminar that's as deep as it goes up to now.

The 2nd Canadian Seminar will be held in the first week in August. For details from Taylor Sensei

kataylor@uoguelph.ca

European Seminar is planned for October in France.
Contact Philippe Nguyen Thanh Thiên

aikijudo_school@eastwardho.com

We are not politicaly motivated. Anyone is welcome to our seminars.

My website perhaps lacks in information a lot of people would like to see. But the web is the web. The Kenjutsu dojo a dojo.

There are still some things we need to keep seperate. Anyone can read a little about our affiliations or should I say "lack of" on my site.

[Musha]

Anjin-san. I don't think Whitedragon lives in London maybe not even England. He wanted to buy a Musashi katana ;).

[Hai_hai]

Baka yourself, Hai Hai-san...
Kaoru

No. BAKA to you.

And another thing, refer to me as Hai hai-sensei.

[Yowai]

You're 18 and born in England, but your english is terrible. Why is that so?



Stop making things up Musha. It is NOT MY approval. It is the fact that they are LEGIT is what is the approval. The dojo can stand on it's own feet if it has the correct credentials. Some people DON'T know what is dangerous or not. And, what is this losing a finger if the sensei doesn't have menkyo? A person can CREATE Menkyo for themselves. That's WHY you check sometimes if it is not obvious. Ask that on e-budo. It has happened. You should not be talking, Musha. The list I have is a LIST of LEGIT dojo I have found either on my own and gotten checked by other knowledgeable people, or, ones found FOR me by other Koryu practitioners. It has NOTHING to do with approval by ME. I do not approve them. Understand? I just have a list I decided to keep, and that is ALL. It beats having to find them again every single time.

The proof of the connection between legitimacy and safety is lacking.

[Marine_Boy]

Any way more to the point, here is a Dojyo that teaches both Aikido and Kashima shinryu kenjyutsu it has a great website from my point of view :D.

http://www.movingeast.co.uk/tetsushinkan/ksr.html

I wish I could do Aikido again lol..
Try searching for Koryu and try thinking of the type of style you would like to do.

I know that this is an old thread, but came across this and posted anyway.

Just to clear things up.

Our line of teaching comes from Inaba sensei of Shiseikan dojo, Meiji Jingu, Tokyo. He studied with Kunii Sensei, the last headmaster of the Kashima Shinryu school.

But from there matters get political and I don't know the full story myself. But we are not affilated with Dr Seki's (current KSR headmaster) organisation.

Kaoru, if you have already contact Dr Friday, then I could expect the type of message he has given you.

But Jenny has mentioned my name and I too am on this forum. Would it have been polite of you to have asked me too? I am not annoyed or angry, nor am I about to get into a rant about "how my school is the real thing". You know as well as I do, loads of people have tried doing that on ebudo and what results is endless pages of people slagging each other off.

Heck, I'm most probably beating at a dead donkey of a thread here.

So Kaoru, contact me if you wish. I most probably won't be able to answer many of your questions, if have any. Do it publically, privately or not at all. But I guess that you've already made your mind up and I'm not about to change that.

[Marine_Boy]

Just rereading this thread and couldn't edit my last message.

Kaoru, usually you are very well spoken. But I feel that your attitude and behaviour on this thread has gotten out of control.

I almost could feel that you are offensive to my dojo without even letting me know. Isn't that back stabbing? Do you not feel that is slightly below par behaviour for someone who practices budo?

The site says exactly what it is. Nothing more, nothing less. There are no hidden agenda, nor do attempt to go out to all internet forums and try converting people to our way.

[MecnunK]

Hi WhiteDragon

I am sure you could find an iaido dojo depending on where you are based in the UK. This is a good place to start. I found my MJR iaido dojo through this website by posting in the iaido forum. Completed my 3rd lesson today and thoroughly loving it.

I also do a bit of wing chun when the mood takes me ;).

As for the sword, I recommend you read a little before plunging in to buy one. You certainly do not want to buy a sharp one as far as training with one is concerned. bokken and iaito are the way to go. If you want one to say collect or admire I recommend the original thing not Paul Chen or modern made stuff. You should be able to pick a decent enough gendaito for a under 1K GBP. Just need to be careful before you buy off some online place or ebay though..

I recommend the following website for an intro to nihonto:

http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/nihonto.htm

rgrds

[Kaoru]

Just rereading this thread and couldn't edit my last message.

Kaoru, usually you are very well spoken. But I feel that your attitude and behaviour on this thread has gotten out of control.

I almost could feel that you are offensive to my dojo without even letting me know. Isn't that back stabbing? Do you not feel that is slightly below par behaviour for someone who practices budo?

The site says exactly what it is. Nothing more, nothing less. There are no hidden agenda, nor do attempt to go out to all internet forums and try converting people to our way.Stan-san, you misread the post I made. Mingshi-san did, too. I said Kashima Shinryu IS a legit Ryu. And, if you read it again, I NEVER said your dojo was not a legit dojo. Sorry that it came off that way, but that was not what I was saying. I see how you thought that. But, read it closely. You'll see I wasn't saying anything about it. I was making a point to Musha about something else. And, I didn't even see your name in Mingshi's post, anyway. Or I'd have actually asked you, if I needed to. The print on this forum is small, and I sometimes will miss a detail like that. At least I have a valid reason for that. FYE, I didn't research your dojo's line, because I was not talking about KSR. And, I would, if I was actually searching for KSR for a person, because I don't know a lot about KSR. That's the only time I'd contact people like you or Dr. Friday if I have a question. If I don't know, I ask. But, I was not searching for KSR, so it is not necessary yet to know. Sorry if I seem really miffed now, and really upset in my other posts, but just because I prefer to make sure a dojo is legit before I give it, is no reason for someone to attack me for it. That in itself, is not a nice thing to do. :(

Kaoru

[Marine_Boy]

Hello Kaoru,

I wasn't sure that you'd reply to such an old thread.

Sorry if I have offended you. But when reading the thread, it did seem that you were on the offensive. Thank you for clearing that up. I guess that I was jumping the gun slightly..

I didn't think it was in your character to say such things anyway.

Please accept my appologies.

[Musha]

Isn't this tread more than five months old by now? I guess the guy has long found his Dojyo or not and left or not by now :D.

The only way to find out of the school you want to join is good, is to go there and practice for afew weeks or months and think about the teachers attitude, students attitude and the effectiveness of the techniques.

Also if you are interested in a historical martial art do some research of the schools in Japan and historical leaders.

What dumb people there are out there..

P.S Marine_Boy did you come to Mark Needham's Dojyo last week? Or am I thinking of some one else.

[Marine_Boy]

Isn't this tread more than five months old by now? I guess the guy has long found his Dojyo or not and left or not by now :D.

The only way to find out of the school you want to join is good, is to go there and practice for afew weeks or months and think about the teachers attitude, students attitude and the effectiveness of the techniques.

Also if you are interested in a historical martial art do some research of the schools in Japan and historical leaders.

What dumb people there are out there..

P.S Marine_Boy did you come to Mark Needham's Dojyo last week? Or am I thinking of some one else.

Musha, I think you must have mistaken someone else for me.

Look for Lee on my tare. :wink: