Carbon Shinai's

[Dwayne P.]

Greetings Everyone,

I’m very interested in finding out the overall performance of a Carbon Shinai. The durability, balance, up-keep (maintenance), longevity, etc. I have been slightly interested in purchasing one. However, its difficult dishing out $300+ dollars on a piece of equipment that I have never used or been in contact with. No one at my dojo, as far as I know, has any real experience with one.

I am basically located “In the sticks” as far as the sport of kendo is concerned. There is no martial art supply store that I can go to inspect one first hand. I would appreciate any input that you have about this type of Shinai. Any recommendations, dissatisfaction, any general information or experience you have had with them.

Of course I should state that my personal interest for a Carbon Shinai would be for practice purposes only. It would be nice to have durable work-horse in my Shinai bag.

Thanks in advance for your input!

-Dwayne

[Kuri]

I suggest you look at this thread
http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80

I personally have the DB-39M (oval handle). It has served me well for over 5 years, but I usually only use it as a spare (if my bamboo shinai splintters during training). It has a very different feel, and I find that there is more shock going up my arms (mostly elbow)

Whatever you decide, be aware of all the pros & cons.

[gszab]

Hi!

I had got 2 carbon shinais till now. I heard stories in my dojo of such carbin shinais which had lasted for 10 years! But in spite of these stories my hasegawas lasted only for 1 years :(. So my oppinion from the longevity is that if you train hard and pretty frequently, the carbon shinai will brake too in 1 or 2 years.
These period is equal to about 4 or 5 bamboo shinais.

So if I count after the prices, I got the result that a bamboo worths better than a carbon.
Morover the bamboo shinai has better balance, does not cause so much shock in your elbow ... etc.
So i recommend the bamboo shinai and the hasegawa for reserve if you can pay the 300 dollars.

[alexpollijr]

I think you have answered your own question.

I have a CF39 standard carbon shinai. It has a lot of use now and is in perfect shape besides some dents. The durability is awesome because you can rotate the parts, and the edges, being very smooth, don't splinter as in bamboo. Besides, you can buy separate slats to replace damaged ones, which is also a good deal.

The balance is not the best in the world, and the grip is a little loose but it's nothing that would directly affect training. The shock issue never became apparent to me. And for the supposed extra pain it'd cause in the receiving end, I have surveyed all my colleagues and no one had anything to say about it.

So, all in all I think is a good deal to have a bamboo one for shiai & keiko and a carbon one for all the other uses. As you have said yourself.

Cheers

[alexpollijr]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gszab
[B]Hi!

I had got 2 carbon shinais till now. I heard stories in my dojo of such carbin shinais which had lasted for 10 years! But in spite of these stories my hasegawas lasted only for 1 years :(. So my oppinion from the longevity is that if you train hard and pretty frequently, the carbon shinai will brake too in 1 or 2 years.
These period is equal to about 4 or 5 bamboo shinais.


What?
In one year a carbon fiber one doesn't even dent, let alone brake completely. I train hard and frequently and never seem any signs of wearing out. You must be hitting mengane or other shinai very frequently, it's the only thing I can figure out.

[AlexM]

The previous posts give a good idea of one of the problems with carbon shinai: Sometimes they last forever and sometimes they don't. Shelling out 300$ doesn't guarantee you'll have have an instrument that will last much longer than a good, well-maintained bamboo shinai. The upkeep is easier but it's still a lot of money. That's partly the reason I don't plan on owning one (although I have tried them out and even had one broken on me...no injuries sustained that I know of, unless slurring my words counts :wink: ).
That being said I'd love to be able to forego all the maintenance associated with bamboo, it's just that the uncertainty factor is too much for me (i.e. 300$ US is a lot of money). It's probably more a question of whether or not you can comfortably afford it.

[kendokamax]

There is so many factors for a shinai to last!
I got before a very good bamboo shinai, balance was good, I wanted to use it only in shiai, but it didn't last more than 2-3 practices when I was using it.

I got also a used carbon shinai and it lasted only 2 weeks :'(

In vancouver before the Canadian championship I had to buy a shinai. We went to a martial art shop and there wasn't really much choise there. So I bought a "made in China" shinai, this shinai is kinda bad, the handle is turning all the time and I think every angle of my shinai has been the blade part at least 1 or twice.

But It doesn't have a single crack and I have been using it for 2 months now!

So basicaly I feel it all comes down to luck when you are not someone who has been kendo for a while. My kendo changed a lot so sometimes it was harder for the shinai to last. Now looks like there might be more stability!?

I dunno what I am talking about really..

but happy kendo anyway!

[gszab]

Hi Alexpollijr!

I meant that i broke 1 fibre in a year and it was not because i hit the mengane i think ( I'm not a hard hiter either). My observation was that the carbon shinai takes well when you hit with it but doesnt take so well when you attack with tsuki (hasegawa usually bow when you do this, bow much more than a bamboo one). both fibre that i crushed got ruined from a bow.
Under quite frequently trainings i meant minimum 3 times per weak.

All the best
;)

[alexpollijr]

Hi there

Ah, I see, you broke one of the slats of carbon fiber. I am aware the the hasegawa does indeed bend much more than bamboo, so that can be a nice explaination. But hey, you like to tsuki yer mates, aye ? :rolleyes:

I thought so. I also have practice 3 days per week.
Anyway, I got this hand-me-down hasegawa with one year of use and so far it is pretty much solid and I believe it's going to last awhile

[Dwayne P.]

Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences and point of view with the Carbon Shinai. I will continue to use bamboo at this point in time. However, I will be looking to purchase a Carbon Shinai sometime in the near future.

Please feel free to add to this thread, if you have not had the opportunity to yet. For everyone's advice on this subject is much appreciated!

Thanks
-Dwayne

[Ares2907]

Carbon shinai's . . . .what?

Oh, you meant carbon shinais.
In that case you'll want to have a look at this. . .

http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif

Sorry - everything useful seems to have been said already.
-Ares

[saki_wooah]

It will problably take a while before I get a carbon shinai... for 2 good reasons:
1- 300$ us is a lot for me... I prefer to save my money to buy a good bogu set later and a trip to Japan :)... one day...
2- Ergh... a 39 shinai is too heavy for mee... When using my 38, I feel my arms are tired after 30 suburi (a true fact). And I tried a carbon shinai once with an oval grip... I like the grip but it is very heavy for mee :(

[Ares2907]

saki_wooah : a 39 shinai is too heavy for mee... When using my 38, I feel my arms are tired after 30 suburi (a true fact).


You can get lightweight 39 shinai. Dunno about carbons, but most definately with the take shinai. As for your arms being tired, that'll be from
a) being a raw beginner - if this is the case, it will pass. Try to relax.
b) being too tense during your cutting action - if this is the case, learn to relax.

You should be able to do several thousand suburi without it wrecking you.
-Ares

[kendokamax]

You can get lightweight 39 shinai. Dunno about carbons, but most definately with the take shinai. As for your arms being tired, that'll be from
a) being a raw beginner - if this is the case, it will pass. Try to relax.
b) being too tense during your cutting action - if this is the case, learn to relax.


eh

c) might also be that she is a bit younger too, which means she doesn't have the physical strengh to do thousands of suburi.

[Kuri]

Originally posted by kendokamax

c) might also be that she is a bit younger too, which means she doesn't have the physical strengh to do thousands of suburi.

I trained with some high school kids (15 year olds) that do all of their warm-ups with suburito [including haisuburi (jumping men)]. They train everyday, but it's just a matter of conditioning. If she doesn't continuously practise even with a lighter shinai, she will never have the strength.

I personally advocate warm ups with something heavier. After that in training, your normal shinai feels like a matchstick :D

[cklin]

Nothing beats the feel of bamboo. Period.

I've seen that reliance on carbon shinai can sometimes lead to lack of upkeep know-how and lack of care for equipment (of course, the shinai especially), since there is the (mis)perception that carbon shinai need no maintainence.

Sure carbon shinai have economic advantages, but for me, it's bamboo all the way. With proper care, bamboo shinai can last quite long.

[damocles]

until recently I was an avid proponent of carbon shinai.

Then my carbon shinai developed a fatal crack on the inside of a take, exposing the carbon and wood core. This rendered my shinai unusuable after 14 months of use (4 times a week)

Since then, in the last four months, I've destroyed 2 bamboo shinai take through improper maintenance and/or striking. Though I've not gotten any complaints in terms of excessive blows.

I'm going to be taking some of the advice in here and keep the carbon shinai as a spare, after I replace the broken take. Never again will I suggest a carbon shinai as a main training shinai.

[iwatekenshi]

Well after 4 years I finally had to exchange one of my slats of my carbon shinai this past weekend. I'd have to say using my carbon shinai was a success nearly practicing everyday with it. With the success of it I find myself only buying a bamboo shinai about once a year.
It's use is just for kihon-uchi though. Kakari-geiko, uchikomi and keiko I use my bamboo shinais.

[Confound]

This is just a personal judgement, and it echos what others have said, but it's important to me, so i'll say it once more...

I don't like the balance of a carbon shinai. I prefer to buy bamboo shinai, because I'm not that hard on them for some reason. (my strikes aren't very forceful, i don't see the point in knocking my opponents unconscious.)

a carbon shinai will last longer than a bamboo model, but it will feel far different. in the end, it comes down to what you like better. i have met people who swear by their carbons, and will not use anything but a carbon, believe it or not.

c

[MRaymond]

I've been using a carbon shinai for over two years without trouble. I haven't noticed the "shock" effect but am - as others have mentioned - not ecstatic about the balance.

Bamboo shinai feel much more alive than my carbon. I think this can be attributed to the balance and weight differences between the two types.

Though I almost exclusively use the carbon, I try to switch to bamboo for keiko whenever possible. This way the carbon takes the beatings during kiri-kaeshi and kihon while enjoying the better performance of bamboo "when it counts."

This extends the life of my equipment and keeps more money in my fief ;)

[chidokan]

one thing about carbon fibre is that it is not that impact resistant. If you have ever gone fishing and had a lure hit the rod they splinter very easily and break. I must admit I was surprised to see it used for shinai when it first came out. I could see them breaking quite easily if hit hard, accidentally or otherwise, against the bars of a men. Although the carbon cloth is quite flexible, the resin has to be rigid to give the cloth its shape, and perhaps is a little brittle. It would be interesting to see what type of resin is used (from my rather sad engineering perspective!) and how flexible it is.
No doubt they will get better in time, but at the price they are and that weird balance and rigidity they have I'll wait a while...unless of course someone wants to give me one to try for nothing and try to change my mind?:D

Tim Hamilton

[Kendoka]

For Carbon fibre shinai weight and size availability have a look at the weight and size options at http://www.hasegawakagaku.co.jp/eshinai.htm. Your friendly local bogu shop probably won't have the full range though !!

Richard

[Neil Gendzwill]

I've been using the same carbon shinai for about 15 years now, replaced one stave. I no longer use it for regular practice as I find that as I get better I have less tolerance for how it feels and responds. I don't recommend them to beginners because if you hit the mengane a lot you'll break a carbon just as fast as bamboo. But if your technique is basically OK they'll last you a long time.

[Atama]

I also love the feel and balance of a good bamboo shinai, and as i don't hit hard i can usually get a year out of one.

However I am seriously considering purchasing a carbon fibre shinai as I am finding the more beginners I act as motadachi for the more shinai I have to replace, staves are constantly getting damaged in kiri-kaeshi and its starting cost quite a bit of cash, more so coz I import my shinai.


Lisa Williams (Do Shin Ken Yu Kai)

[KhawMengLee]

I'm getting a carbon shinai for the same reason, durability. But the only peeve I have is the weight. I like to train with a heavy shinai and fight shiai with a lighter one. I use a heavy koto style shinai in training and a lighter dobari in shiai.

Unfortunately, the carbon shinais are lighter than both.

MENG

[Atama]

I'm looking for a 38L dobari oval grip but they only seem to do the dobari oval grip in a 38 and i'm a little unsure to weather it'll be to heavy for me.

Lisa

[KhawMengLee]

The weights are here:

http://www.hasegawakagaku.co.jp/eshinai.htm

BTW,whats the regulation weightfor shiai? 510g?

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by KhawMengLee
The weights are here:

http://www.hasegawakagaku.co.jp/eshinai.htm

BTW,whats the regulation weightfor shiai? 510g?
510 for men, 440 for women. Under 18, it's 480 and 420, under 16 its 440 and 400.

[KendoShiai]

Hey Dwayne, where exactly to you practice? I know the guys in Miami and Mike Meade I know uses Carbon when he is not doing Nito. We are practicing up here in Orlando now and I use Carbon. Have since about 1995. Your more than welcome to come up any time and take a look at it.

[mad_god]

Greetings Everyone,

I’m very interested in finding out the overall performance of a Carbon Shinai. The durability, balance, up-keep (maintenance), longevity, etc. I have been slightly interested in purchasing one. However, its difficult dishing out $300+ dollars on a piece of equipment that I have never used or been in contact with. No one at my dojo, as far as I know, has any real experience with one.

I am basically located “In the sticks” as far as the sport of kendo is concerned. There is no martial art supply store that I can go to inspect one first hand. I would appreciate any input that you have about this type of Shinai. Any recommendations, dissatisfaction, any general information or experience you have had with them.

Of course I should state that my personal interest for a Carbon Shinai would be for practice purposes only. It would be nice to have durable work-horse in my Shinai bag.

Thanks in advance for your input!

-Dwayne

Instead approaching the shinai perfomance you must focus in your perfomance first.
Doens't matter if Carbon, if doubari or Koban.
If you know how to make the movements in the correct way, all are useful.
But personally, if you really want to find out the "deepest" part of Kendo, you must stop using Carbon.
Maybe after 20 years?

MAD GOD

[baka gaijin]

Any hopes to see carbon ha-bu for naginata soon? :rolleyes: