A Sad Day for International Kendo

[Alex]

A few months ago I was given permission to translate an article published in Kendo Nippon Magazine. The article was a dialogue between Japanese national team captain Mr. Eiga, and his Korean counterpart Mr. Kim. Anybody who was at the WKC in Glasgow will have the incredible Teams final between these 2 kenshi firmly etched in their minds. It was truly a fantastic match which Eiga managed to win narrowly well into encho with a well-timed katate-tsuki.

Anyway, just as I had finished the translation we receivied notification from Kendo Nippon to hold the article and not to publish it. Mr. Kim had been arrested. For what, we didn't know.

This week I was informed that he has been convicted of raping one of his kendo students. He was initially given 10 years hard-labour, but this sentence has been reduced to 3 years.

It is truly a sad day for Korean kenshi, and indeed international kendo. I am sorry to be the bearer of this news, but it is starting to make the rounds in the international kendo community amid much confusion. To avoid any further misunderstanding I thought it prudent to post this here. :cry:

[Kirin]

Yes, Kim's scandal began right after WKC.
...and I heard not only rape charges, Kim got several battery and assult charges (filed by reporters/cameramen and former students)

...very sad :smoker:

[sminki]

It is a sad incident indeed. Since then, Mr. Kim has also been expelled from Korean Kumdo Association. All Korean kenshi feel that we have lost a great kenshi with so much potential.

[heri0n]

:surprise:

[dorkusxmaximus]

To go down like that is pretty messed up.

[steliosk]

Very unfortunate turn of events. Terrible thing to happen, one's sensei committing such a crime to his student. It is a pity for us to lose respect for someone who seemed so highly regarded in such disgraceful way...

[samurai999]

Whoa.. Is this Kim Kyung-nam? If so, this is indeed a sad day. Very disappointing indeed. His own student!! One would cringe at the implications this would have..

Tim

[mystic_kendoka]

raping and assaulting? you cannot be that sorry for a man like that...

[mingshi]

HIM BASTARD!!:mad:

Especially a case like this... totally disrepecting the trust built upon a teacher-student relationship!!

There are enough martial art instructors (whether McDojo or not) molesting students already!!

To emphasize my point: All rapists deserves death sentence!!

[steliosk]

Sad sad sad. This is the sort of stuff you sometimes hear happenning in McDojos (not all of course, some just have bad budo) not something you want (expect?) to hear in association with kendo.

[Musha]

Strange, I wonder what Kim Kyung is like as a person. If he is like Mike Tyson that is a pretty crazy person even if he may be a good boxer. I am trying to search for his name on Yahoo Japan but can't work out the Kanji spelling yet.

I don't think it was a (McDojyo) as some people say. It is just like a School teacher, Doctor or any one abusing there interment connection with people. It just shows that we should always be wary of people.

[Eiliries]

What a sick bastard! I think all rapists should be castrated!

[JSchmidt]

Just before people get carried away, remember that kenshi's are just people and as such, just as fallible as anyone else.

Jakob

[Yowai]

What a bunch of trigger-happy folks we have here. Do you know the details of the charges? What did the female do?

[Alex]

What a bunch of trigger-happy folks we have here. Do you know the details of the charges? What did the female do?
Yes, I have details of the charges and the resulting penalties. What did the female do? She got raped...

[James]

Hi,
could Alex or anyone put a link up to the facts about this please?
Or put a summary of exactly what happened.

thanks,

[Curtis]

What a bunch of trigger-happy folks we have here. Do you know the details of the charges? What did the female do?
Another asinine post by kowai yowai.

As stated earlier people doing kendo are just that, people. This tendency to think that there is this higher standard of behavior because they do kendo always amazes me.

After all these years in kendo I have repeatedly seen kendo sensei and others with behavior I couldn't believe, mistresses, drinking and other inappropriate behavior around women. This seems to be part of the culture that is accepted.

I have also seen some shining examples of how they conduct their life.

Yes kendo people are just like any other group. You got the good ones and the not so good ones and it has nothing to do with what their dan is.

Kim got what he deserved. You can bet they wouldn't have prosecuted him unless there was a good case. The point here is there should be much more empathy for the victim. I wonder how many other victims there were?

[Yowai]

How, exactly, was my post asinine? Your following sentences rambled about a topic completely irrelevant to my post. In fact, those statements agree completely with my earlier claims that a great Kendo player can be a rapist.

[CUDALAX21]

I'm sorry but i have always believed in having resonable doubt about things like this (ecspecially when it comes to kendo , a sport base souly on honor). But on that same page there are a lot of messed up people in the world. Personally i have no idea who Mr. Kim is (being brand new to kendo) but i do feel sorry for the man and sorry for all my fellow kendoist who are shocked by this news.

[CUDALAX21]

also Yowai in my opinion you have a good point. In a few cases the woman kinda hints into an attraction to someone with fame or fortune (and i am not sexist i am just speaking the truth) but when the individual finally "snaps" the woman gets scared because it isn't a wonderful experience.

[Yowai]

Thank you! I was planning to include that point into my post. We have another reasonable person that understands that rape isn't a black and white issue.

[Curtis]

What did the female do?
How, exactly, was my post asinine? Your following sentences rambled about a topic completely irrelevant to my post. In fact, those statements agree completely with my earlier claims that a great Kendo player can be a rapist.
Exactly what I would have expected.

The rest of my post has nothing to do with you or your post.

No, I suppose rape isn't always black and white except when they say no.

[Will]

Personally i have no idea who Mr. Kim is (being brand new to kendo) but i do feel sorry for the man and sorry for all my fellow kendoist who are shocked by this news.

You feel sorry for the man because he got arrested for raping a girl? Oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man... OH GAWD

OMFG I'm speechless at that remark.

[samurai999]

Of course the issue of rape is not exactly black and white. But according to what I have heard about the issue here, and what I have seen in the states, rape is intercourse or other types of intimate physical contact that is forced upon another without the other person's consent. The grey area is whether or not that consent was given. There was a case in the Bay Area where this High School mens bball coach was molesting some of his players a while back. Though the defense argued that the children were confused, the coach has a sparkling record, etc the court ruled in favor of, IIRC, the children. Even if the court ruled in favor of that coach, that coach's record will be forever tarnished. Who in their right mind will trust that man with their kids? If I had kids who played bball, I wouldn't.

Anyways, the court in Korea judged him guilty, but to be even in that SITUATION is disappointing to say the least especially for a man of that calibre. This man (from what I heard) is the Michael Jordan of Kendo in Korea. Imagine Michael Jordan running a basketball camp and raping one of his students. Unimaginable isn't it? This man is looked up to by many young kenshi in Korea and to do something like this sets a very bad example for youngsters IMHO.

My $0.02(US),

Tim

[Will]

hey, this is almost a Kobe Bryant like case

[Raiza]

Considering the status of the kenshi involved, I'm surprised there's no coverage available on the web, at least not in English. Is this being swept under the rug? If so, how can people not notice when Korea's #1 kumdo god is no longer showing up at major tournaments?

If this had indeed occurred, he should have received the 10 year's hard-labour he was initially sentenced to. The maximum penalty should be thrown at people in positions of trust and esteem who abuse that privilege. I feel dirty looking at any of his matches now. I feel dirty looking at some of the posts in this thread. WTF are some of you thinking?!?

[CUDALAX21]

You feel sorry for the man because he got arrested for raping a girl? Oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man... OH GAWD

OMFG I'm speechless at that remark.
I didn't mean i felt sorry for him for being arrested I feel sorry for him cuz if he did in fact rape the girl he just threw his entire Career out the freaking window.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I didn't mean i felt sorry for him for being arrested I feel sorry for him cuz if he did in fact rape the girl he just threw his entire Career out the freaking window.
Again, not so much with the sorry feelings from this end. I feel sorry for his teammates, and for the Korean Kumdo community in general who have to deal with this scandal. For him, chuck his ass in jail and let it sit there.

As far as the issue regarding the victim - generally it's a huge issue for a woman to come forward when she has been raped. I'm not sure what the situation in Korea is, but in the US and Canada making an accusation of rape opens you up to some very nasty accusations in court and a lot of stress from within your family and friends. It is not taken lightly, and I believe the incidences of false accusation to be very rare, although I don't have statistics. If it has made it through the courts, I accept that Kim is guilty. That the first thought of some people is "oh, what if she is lying" says a lot about their character.

[sminki]

[QUOTE=Raiza]Considering the status of the kenshi involved, I'm surprised there's no coverage available on the web, at least not in English. Is this being swept under the rug? If so, how can people not notice when Korea's #1 kumdo god is no longer showing up at major tournaments?
QUOTE]

C'mon. Who do you know (other than us who actually train kendo) who follows kendo? There are multitude of people in Japan who wouldn't recognize Eiga, Ishida or Miyazaki from a regular Joe. You're not going to find any coverage on this in English. It's hard to find any coverage on this in Korean. The lack of media coverage doesn't mean it's being swept under the rug though. As I've said, Kim has been expelled from the KKA and people know.

[Danny Boy]

We know nothing more than what other people said about this. People interactions are so complex that i doubt you could draw conclusions on anything so quickly.

Maybe she was into him, he didnt want her, so she decided to burn him ?
Maybe they were lovers, he did something wrong, she burned him ?
Maybe he did rape her ?
etc
etc
etc



As Schmidt said, we're still people, we make mistakes. Besides we all (well most of us) know that the party-side of kendo is pretty "intense" and a lot of weird stuff is going on.

Gotta look at stuff like this with a pinch of salt.

P.S.

I am appaled at the level of posts on this forum, apart from a very few which actually do discuss kendo(kudos to moocow, Schmidt, Neil and other).
Most of the stuff is sh33t from samurai-wanna-bes who talk about zen or using nito/jodan (when the guys probably cant even do a men cut).

[Musha]

Of course people in Japan do know who Eiga and Kim are. There are videos/DVD of the KWC and web sites satistics and leauge charts on the web. I watched a great documentary about Eiga in Japan and that is why I knew his name in the first place. Some one give me Kim Kyung's name in Kanji or some site with a photo of his Zekken!! :down:.

[Jklak]

[QUOTE=Danny Boy]We know nothing more than what other people said about this. People interactions are so complex that i doubt you could draw conclusions on anything so quickly.

Maybe she was into him, he didnt want her, so she decided to burn him ?
Maybe they were lovers, he did something wrong, she burned him ?
Maybe he did rape her ?
etc
etc
etc

QUOTE]

I think that it is outrageous to blame women, if men rape them. Only too small numbers of the rapits get gaught. Don't blame women, blame the rapist!!

[James]

As Jakob says people are people; however when the purpose of kendo is ostensibly to improve the character, corruption from people at such high levels are shocking. I am sure it has rocked the world of Kim's students, and they are the one's who I feel most sorry for.
With IOC vice president Kim Un-yong's being stripped of his posts there must be serious shockwaves going through the Korean Sports community, and as we know Korean national pride is a serious issue.

I can't really comment further as I haven't heard any 'facts' about this case. So it seems a bit early for either cries of castration or feeling sorry for Mr. Kim.

As I said before if anyone has some reliable news about this case I would be grateful if you could link, post it or PM me,

cheers

[sminki]

Of course people in Japan do know who Eiga and Kim are. There are videos/DVD of the KWC and web sites satistics and leauge charts on the web. I watched a great documentary about Eiga in Japan and that is why I knew his name in the first place. Some one give me Kim Kyung's name in Kanji or some site with a photo of his Zekken!! :down:.

Correction. Only people who follow kendo (in Japan or otherwise) know people like Eiga or Kim. You know those names because you follow kendo. Proportionally, there are more peple who don't know the likes of Eiga or Kim than those who do in Japan, Korea, etc.

[kawa]

It is a sad incident indeed. Since then, Mr. Kim has also been expelled from Korean Kumdo Association. All Korean kenshi feel that we have lost a great kenshi with so much potential.

Rape? battery and assult ? what potential you are talking about?? and "a great kenshi"? wtf?

[mystic_kendoka]

wats battery?

[kawa]

[QUOTE=Jklak][QUOTE=Danny Boy]We know nothing more than what other people said about this. People interactions are so complex that i doubt you could draw conclusions on anything so quickly.

Maybe she was into him, he didnt want her, so she decided to burn him ?
Maybe they were lovers, he did something wrong, she burned him ?
Maybe he did rape her ?
etc
etc
etc

QUOTE]

"I think that it is outrageous to blame women, if men rape them. Only too small numbers of the rapits get gaught. Don't blame women, blame the rapist"

Don't blame the rapist...KILL the rapist!!!!

[mystic_kendoka]

as someone else said before on this thread... not death.. castration.. and maybe get some homosexuals to rape the rapist, see how he feels...

[kawa]

wats battery?

battery = Attack = Beating = violence

does NOT mean electric shock...

[mystic_kendoka]

then wldnt battery n assault be the same thing?

[kawa]

as someone else said before on this thread... not death.. castration.. and maybe get some homosexuals to rape the rapist, see how he feels...


I like the way you think!!! You will make a good Lawyer...even better Judge

[kawa]

then wldnt battery n assault be the same thing?

I dont' study law...but..here is the defination.

from State of New Jersey


assault and battery
the combination of the two crimes of threat (assault) and actual beating (battery). They are both also intentional civil wrongs for which the party attacked may file a suit for damages.

so I guess Assault go before Battery??!!

[mystic_kendoka]

*shrug*
as long as i dont have to defend this guy...

[Musha]

sminki..
Correction. Only people who follow kendo (in Japan or otherwise) know people like Eiga or Kim. You know those names because you follow kendo. Proportionally, there are more peple who don't know the likes of Eiga or Kim than those who do in Japan, Korea, etc.

I thought you meant that most of the people in Japan don't know who Eiga is. I don't follow Kendo but I know who he is from a documentary that was shown on Japanese TV. Why would they show a documentary if no one was interested? Millions of people in Japan practice kendo and I am sure they are interested in who wins, for example the National championships.

Any way I will try and find the league table for the WKC on Yahoo Japan none of you guys or girls are any help. Just like to rant about crap as usual :).

[sminki]

Rape? battery and assult ? what potential you are talking about?? and "a great kenshi"? wtf?

I don't think anyone in this thread is questioning the criminal nature of Kim's actions and the resulting conviction/sentencing. He has committed a crime and he should be punished to the fullest extent allowable by law. However, it is a sad thing and a shame that the kendo community "lost" a great kenshi (at least defined by his ability to do kendo) due to grave personal flaws. Imagine a kenshi of his ability without such grave personal flaws. That's the potential that I was referring to.

[Shiro]

I don't see why you're all making such a fuss about this case.....

The fact he raped her has nothing to do with kendo at all so leave the "oh that's so shameful for a kendoka!" behind. Respect towards one another is not typical for Kendo, it's a matter of common courtesy. Kendo puts an emphasis on common courtesy, it's not courtesy itself.
So, kenshi or not, Kim is a human being and human beings will never be perfect, period.

Ok, it's sad Korea looses such a kenshi, but his ass is being sent to jail and he deserved it. Just leave him being a kenshi out of it.

[mingshi]

Uhm, I googled his name with "kumdo" (both in korean, and in Yahoo! Korea) and found a few news articles about kumdo seminars with his pic... there is one page in Oct 03 with the heading "...minor characteristic ugly conduct offense degradation". Obviously if all you have is Babelfish you are not getting any more from it.

I can only fill you with that if you can read Korean...

[Musha]

Found some thing on a Japanese bulletin-board.

http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~ichini/bbs2/457993347969936.html

顯雄(Akio)

Kim Kyung Nam選手は昨年末世界選手権大会後自分が監督であった
女高校選手たちを大学入学を餌に強姦して今刑事立件された状態です.
去年韓国剣道係にあった恥かしい事です.
また範士8段先生が類似剣道団体との交流したという理由に
除名される事がありました.

[2004/01/10 10:13:18]

'Last year after the WKC coach Kim kyung nam is under investigation for raping a High school about to enter university. Last year was a very imbasasing time for Korean kendo. More for this his rank of 8th dan hanshi was also taken.

[10:13:18 10/01/2004]'

[DCPan]

To emphasize my point: All rapists deserves death sentence!!

Well, at the least, I think all rapists should be castrated.

The problem is, what if he was framed?

Even if there is "physical evidence" i.e. semen found on the girl, that proves that sexual intercourse did occur, but not necessarily what lead up to the event.

To quote a song from Les Miserables:

"Take an eye for an eye! Turn your heart into stone! This is all I have lived for! This is all I have known..."

[sminki]

Found some thing on a Japanese bulletin-board.

http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~ichini/bbs2/457993347969936.html

顯雄(Akio)

Kim Kyung Nam選手は昨年末世界選手権大会後自分が監督であった
女高校選手たちを大学入学を餌に強姦して今刑事立件された状態です.
去年韓国剣道係にあった恥かしい事です.
また範士8段先生が類似剣道団体との交流したという理由に
除名される事がありました.

[2004/01/10 10:13:18]

'Last year after the WKC coach Kim kyung nam is under investigation for raping a High school about to enter university. Last year was a very imbasasing time for Korean kendo. More for this his rank of 8th dan hanshi was also taken.

[10:13:18 10/01/2004]'

Kim Kyung Nam had never gotten 8 dan hanshi. He was 7 dan (kyoshi, I think). Obviously the site isn't very accurate.

Is this one of those anti-Korean kumdo sites?

[sminki]

Uhm, I googled his name with "kumdo" (both in korean, and in Yahoo! Korea) and found a few news articles about kumdo seminars with his pic... there is one page in Oct 03 with the heading "...minor characteristic ugly conduct offense degradation". Obviously if all you have is Babelfish you are not getting any more from it.

I can only fill you with that if you can read Korean...

I wonder why it doesn't come up for me... Can you post the link? I'll translate for ya.

[Yowai]

Be wary the seductive nature of women, especially those high school kind!

Ippon!

[mingshi]

顯雄(Akio)

Kim Kyung Nam選手は昨年末世界選手権大会後自分が監督であった
女高校選手たちを大学入学を餌に強姦して今刑事立件された状態です.
去年韓国剣道係にあった恥かしい事です.
また範士8段先生が類似剣道団体との交流したという理由に
除名される事がありました.


As usual, Musha's translation is terrible. What I read on the last line is approx. about KKN's kendo association (Dae Han Kumdo?)'s affiliation being removed from the IKF (by a Hanshi 8Dan)...

From what I read that thread is about "Kumdo of Korea" with Akio (Apparently a Korean) jumping in clarifying things.

I'll translate the kanji, so people who know a bit more on grammar can understand as well:

KKN (competitor) wa (end of last year)(after)(WKC) (his own)(coach) de atta (female high school competitor) tachi wo (University entry) wo (bait) ni (rape) shite (now) criminal offense case) sareta (status) desu.
(Last year)(among Korea Kumdo) ni atta (shame) kashii (incident) desu.
Mata (Hanshi 8Dan Sensei) ga (similar Kumdo association) to no (exchange) shita toiu (reason) ni (name removal) sairu (incident) ga arimashita.

Sminki... check your PM.

[samurai999]

I don't see why you're all making such a fuss about this case.....

The fact he raped her has nothing to do with kendo at all so leave the "oh that's so shameful for a kendoka!" behind. Respect towards one another is not typical for Kendo, it's a matter of common courtesy. Kendo puts an emphasis on common courtesy, it's not courtesy itself.
So, kenshi or not, Kim is a human being and human beings will never be perfect, period.

Ok, it's sad Korea looses such a kenshi, but his ass is being sent to jail and he deserved it. Just leave him being a kenshi out of it.

Sure human beings aren't perfect and certainly not Mr. Kim, but you have to think of him as a kenshi in this case since he supposedly raped his own student. What is so shameful about this case to me is that students (especially kids) look up to him and subsequently, parents put their trust in him to teach them properly and to be a role model. He (if he did this act) totally violated this trust.

I don't know about you, but I thought it was about having respect towards your fellow kenshi or opponent. Thats what I was taught even before I started kendo. I didn't think it was common courtesy.

My 0.02$(US),
Tim

[sminki]

As usual, Musha's translation is terrible. What I read on the last line is approx. about KKN's kendo association (Dae Han Kumdo?)'s affiliation being removed from the IKF (by a Hanshi 8Dan)...

From what I read that thread is about "Kumdo of Korea" with Akio (Apparently a Korean) jumping in clarifying things.

I'll translate the kanji, so people who know a bit more on grammar can understand as well:

KKN (competitor) wa (end of last year)(after)(WKC) (his own)(coach) de atta (female high school competitor) tachi wo (University entry) wo (bait) ni (rape) shite (now) criminal offense case) sareta (status) desu.
(Last year)(among Korea Kumdo) ni atta (shame) kashii (incident) desu.
Mata (Hanshi 8Dan Sensei) ga (similar Kumdo association) to no (exchange) shita toiu (reason) ni (name removal) sairu (incident) ga arimashita.

Sminki... check your PM.

I see. Thanks for your trans. The last bit is about another person (an old 8 dan) who was dismissed from KKA during 2003. That had caused a bit of a stir as well within the Korean kumdo community...

[Musha]

As usual, Musha's translation is terrible.

Mingshi if I could not translate Japanese I would not have got an A in A level Japanese. I also translated that in 5 minutes at 11pm at night :).

[Yowai]

Mingshi if I could not translate Japanese I would not have got an A in A level Japanese. I also translated that in 5 minutes at 11pm at night :).

What the hell is A level Japanese? Should everyone know this? You coudn't translate it.

[Musha]

Also Kim Kyung nam's coach did it too you say? :shocked:.
:

(his own)(coach) de atta (female high school competitor) tachi wo (University entry) wo (bait) ni (rape)

Kim Kyung nam met his coach and raped all female high school competitors using entering University :).

[red_xavier]

What the hell is A level Japanese? Should everyone know this? You coudn't translate it.

Well firstly A-level is a British university entry level exam... much more specific than a high school diploma but essentially the same thing.

And secondly, I seriously doubt Musha thought he was going to get marked for his translation.... :rolleyes:

mingshi - If you're going to say that someone's translation is terrible, at least provide a translation yourself...

[Emchen]

also Yowai in my opinion you have a good point. In a few cases the woman kinda hints into an attraction to someone with fame or fortune (and i am not sexist i am just speaking the truth) but when the individual finally "snaps" the woman gets scared because it isn't a wonderful experience.
In a _few_ cases. It's very dangerous to refer to irrelevant cases, when speaking of something you don't know the details of. The fact that some women make falsely accusations, doesn't really make us all liars and abusers of law.:shocked:

In most cases the woman knows her assailant and it certainly isn't about "but she was wearing a red dress, so it turned me on. She shouldn't have done that...". It's about power and control. And violence. When the woman being attacked isnt't indeed a woman at all, but a child in high school (and don't gimme that crap, high school girls are children despite the fact that they have achieved... hm, sexual maturity), then it is a particularly grave offense.

The fact, that a teacher, like Mr. Kim abuses a child, who trusts him is appalling. I don't care whether he does kendo or not, because this isn't about kendo anymore, this is about crimes against society and human integrity. He was tried in a court of law, so my best guess is, that there was a reason for it. In male-oriented societies the courts aren't usually too keen on giving men long sentences for crimes against female sexuality. And korean society _is_ male-oriented.

Have you people doubting the innocence of the girl (or girls, I understood that there have been more) ever been molested? Do you know how it feels? It is much more common in kendo circles than you'd think...


I met Mr. Kim in Glasgow. Strange, he seemed kind of shy then. The girls of my team stormed in on him during the sayonara party and wanted to offer him a drink. He refused and stuck together with his team mates. That such a guy is in fact a sexual predator... Then again, if his tastes lie in little girls in the middle of their developement, then our more matured presence might have offended his gusto.

[mingshi]

Disclaimer: I have never taken ANY Japanese lesson, either formal or informal, hence I never claim to be "certified" to translate anything - I just volunteer for the Kanji part, because that is my MOTHER LANGUAGE. The fact that I got A in English at GCSE (HKCEE - in Hong Kong) has nothing to do with my English-Chinese translation capability either.

My Translation to that particular sentence:-

"After the WKC towards the end of last year, KKN uses university entrance as bait, raped (...some? or just bait some and raped one? not sure...) female high school students, whom he was the coach of that high school."

-- DO NOT RELY ON IT! I am sure someone else can do a better job.

Meanwhile, for those who wonder if KKN was framed, even he is now a convicted criminal under a legitimate law court... You have the same reason to think that Michael Jackson have been framed an uncountable number of times in 10 years.

YMMY.

[red_xavier]

It's always sad to see people accused of rape. It's probably the most horrific crime there is. Yet it's irresponsible when its misused because it casts doubt on the true cases... at the end of the day it's a he says she says game (which is why it inevitable ruins lives because one's credibility is deconstructed by the other side)

Mingshi - how do like Brighton? Where abouts are you?

[Yowai]

That such a guy is in fact a sexual predator... Then again, if his tastes lie in little girls in the middle of their developement, then our more matured presence might have offended his gusto.

He is not a sexual predator.

[Musha]

Disclaimer: I have never taken ANY Japanese lesson, either formal or informal, hence I never claim to be "certified" to translate anything - I just volunteer for the Kanji part, because that is my MOTHER LANGUAGE. The fact that I got A in English at GCSE (HKCEE - in Hong Kong) has nothing to do with my English-Chinese translation capability either.

My Translation to that particular sentence:-

"After the WKC towards the end of last year, KKN uses university entrance as bait, raped (...some? or just bait some and raped one? not sure...) female high school students, whom he was the coach of that high school."

-- DO NOT RELY ON IT! I am sure someone else can do a better job.

Meanwhile, for those who wonder if KKN was framed, even he is now a convicted criminal under a legitimate law court... You have the same reason to think that Michael Jackson have been framed an uncountable number of times in 10 years.

YMMY.

Although there is always some one better. I have been studying Japanese for over three years every day for on average four hours a day at least and I don't think you can say my translation is always terrible. A fool like Yowai or Hai hai that I suggest no one take any notice of. Can criticise some one and I am sure that any one can find and get satisfaction out of finding mistakes in almost every post on this forum. But don't you think it would be better to contribute some thing useful instead?

Your translation was not up to a readable standard either and I am sure part of it was copied from mine.


I just volunteer for the Kanji part, because that is my MOTHER LANGUAGE.

And since when was Kanji your mother tong? Kanji is Japanese. I thought you were from Hong-kong not Japan? Unless you can read the Japanese message I posted fully in Japanese I don't think you can say you know Kanji.

P.s I can read the word 'mother language(Tong)' without caps you know :wink:.

[James]

...your mother tong?
okaasan no hibashi ?

[Danny Boy]

Although there is always some one better. I have been studying Japanese for over three years every day for on average four hours a day at least and I don't think you can say my translation is always terrible. A fool like Yowai or Hai hai that I suggest no one take any notice of. Can criticise some one and I am sure that any one can find and get satisfaction out of finding mistakes in almost every post on this forum. But don't you think it would be better to contribute some thing useful instead?

Your translation was not up to a readable standard either and I am sure part of it was copied from mine.



And since when was Kanji your mother tong? Kanji is Japanese. I thought you were from Hong-kong not Japan? Unless you can read the Japanese message I posted fully in Japanese I don't think you can say you know Kanji.

P.s I can read the word 'mother language(Tong)' without caps you know :wink:.

WTF is your problem ?
Kanji is the Chinese alphabet, it was adapted by the Japanese a few centuries ago. Get your information right before you're begin to post inflamatory messages.

[Shiro]

yeah Musha, it's kinda weird you say you study japanese when you don't know kanji are chinese symbols........ :D

Not that I study it, but then again, I don't claim anything....

[Musha]

Three posts that prove what I said.
A fool like Yowai or Hai hai can criticise some one and I am sure that any one can find and get satisfaction out of finding mistakes in almost every post on this forum. I think some people should get a life :wink:....

But my friend is Japanese and she can't read Chinese. English is adapted from French, German Latin and a number of other languages and I sure can't read a French book without learning French.

Take a look at the Hong_kong and Yahoo Japan home pages

http://hk.yahoo.com/

http://www.yahoo.co.jp/

Why arn't they the same??

Three posts that prove what I said.
A fool like Yowai or Hai hai can criticise some one and I am sure that any one can find and get satisfaction out of finding mistakes in almost every post on this forum. I think some people should get a life :wink:....

But my friend is Japanese and she can't read Chinese. English is adapted from French, German Latin and a number of other languages and I sure can't read a French book without learning French.

Take a look at the Hong_kong and Yahoo Japan home pages

http://hk.yahoo.com/

http://www.yahoo.co.jp/

Why arn't they the same??

Here is some short text about BOA a leading Japanese/Korean singer in Chinese.

BoA 日本巡迴演唱會揭幕
韓國女歌手 BoA 在日本舉行的巡迴演唱會《 LOVE & HONESTY 》，前晚終在崎玉 Super Arena 揭幕，吸引了一萬五千多人入場。BoA 為了今次演唱會，特別染了一個七彩髮型，再加上七套歌衫，更邀請她的廣告拍檔機械人 ...

I can read a little but without Japanese grammar is it pretty difficult and I would never know the Chinese pronunciation. Some Characters like ? don't even exist in the Japanese language.


Danny Boy...WTF is your problem ?
Kanji is the Chinese alphabet, it was adapted by the Japanese a few centuries ago. Get your information right before you're begin to post inflamatory messages.

Danny boy I hope you learn some better language than 'What the fuck' when you get older because it isn't a nice thing to say you know? Kanji isn't the Chinese alphabet as you said it was adapted from Chinese. In Japanese Kanji needs Kana, the Japanese text because Japanese characters have more than one reading and meaning.

Of excample

恥 Haji (Shame)
恥じらう Hajirau (Feel shy, bashful, Blush)
恥ずかしい Hazukashii (Adj, Shy Ashamed, Embarrassed)

去年韓国剣道係にあった恥かしい事です Kyonen Kankoku kendokei ni atta hazukashii koto desu

Hasukashii koto Means embarrassing, because Koto is the subject stated and Hazukashii being an adjective can not be added by it's self. I am not sure if Mingshi knew that Hazukashii was an adjective but she did not seem to know what the Kashii part meant only knowing the meaning in Chinese :).

[Shiro]

But my friend is Japanese and she can't read Chinese. English is adapted from French, German Latin and a number of other languages and I sure can't read a French book without learning French.

Take a look at the Hong_kong and Yahoo Japan home pages

http://hk.yahoo.com/

http://www.yahoo.co.jp/

Why arn't they the same??


Because the Japanese use kanji together with katakana and hiragana, wich are typically japanese (correct me if I'm wrong, please).
But chinese and japanese still have kanji in common, that's why Mingshi can give comments about your translation, admitting she isn't THE reference in this.

[Jarlaxle]

Mr.Kim must be go insane after losing due tsuki.
Now he is using tsuki technique in raping....

10,000 suburi a day in jail should own lol

[slidercrank]

But my friend is Japanese and she can't read Chinese. English is adapted from French, German Latin and a number of other languages and I sure can't read a French book without learning French.

For a British student about to enter university, your understanding of European languages in general and the English language in particular is a bit lacking.

English and German both belong to the Germanic family. Latin and French belong to the Italic family. English is NOT adapted from French, nor German from Latin. European languages share and borrow vocabularies due to war and commerce, but that does not mean "adapting."

And your Japanese friend needs to study her kanji. My Japanese girlfriend can read my short emails (in Chinese) just fine. The historical and linguistic relationships between Chinese and Japanese Kanji are such that their commonality in meaning is greatest when the passage concerned is devoid of modern phrases. Hence, a passage about pop singers is a bad example.

[mingshi]

Try translating this one then:-

皆達、未熟な井中蛙、問答無用

If you or your friend have difficulties reading any of the above, you probably need to study harder.

You may also like to check what is the meaning of "Kan" in Kanji.

As for why Yahoo HK and Japan isn't the same, I am sure Yahoo UK, USA, Australia will share the same problem... :rolleyes:

You just proved yourself that you can't read Chinese characters, but you have to find a Kanji that I can't read to prove how right you are.

Meanwhile, haven't taken any Japanese class doesn't necessarily mean haven't study Japanese language at all. I am not a big fan of certification either - especially something like the A Levels that I totally skipped. Next time try something internationally recognized, like JLPT (Japanese Language Proficiency Test). When you get to Level 2, you will then be qualified to argue with me.

[Alex]

Oh dear oh dear!

This whole thing is so sad. It's probably my fault for starting the thread half knowing that the morons would come.

We do have all the facts about the case from ex-Korean team members, ex- Japanese team members, and also a certain Japanese kendo magazine. We are waiting to publish the official court findings in detail (depending on legal advice).

However, the longer this thread remains, the more it is going to turn into a pointless mud-slinging match regardless of the facts or the actual topic! I am trying to contact Hamish at the moment, but this thread is going to be closed almost immediately. It is absolutely disgusting to see how the whole thread has turned into a completely idiotic free-for-all in subjects totally unrelated. To us at KW, it is sad also that this is representaive of so many other threads.

There will most certainly be a number of idiots banned completely, no more questions asked or answered. Make your own freaking forum and stop poluting ours! We don't want or need any more dorks. In fact, the whole kendo-world forums concept is under review. This is bloody pathetic.

[heri0n]

thanks alex..
kwf used to be good..
i hope you can restore it to that state again

[Andoru]

However, the longer this thread remains, the more it is going to turn into a pointless mud-slinging match regardless of the facts or the actual topic! I am trying to contact Hamish at the moment, but this thread is going to be closed almost immediately. It is absolutely disgusting to see how the whole thread has turned into a completely idiotic free-for-all in subjects totally unrelated. To us at KW, it is sad also that this is representaive of so many other threads.

There will most certainly be a number of idiots banned completely, no more questions asked or answered. Make your own freaking forum and stop poluting ours! We don't want or need any more dorks. In fact, the whole kendo-world forums concept is under review. This is bloody pathetic.
Hear hear!! But don't take away the forums please - it's filled with excellent information!

[iwatekenshi]

Oh dear oh dear!

This whole thing is so sad. It's probably my fault for starting the thread half knowing that the morons would come.

We do have all the facts about the case from ex-Korean team members, ex- Japanese team members, and also a certain Japanese kendo magazine. We are waiting to publish the official court findings in detail (depending on legal advice).

However, the longer this thread remains, the more it is going to turn into a pointless mud-slinging match regardless of the facts or the actual topic! I am trying to contact Hamish at the moment, but this thread is going to be closed almost immediately. It is absolutely disgusting to see how the whole thread has turned into a completely idiotic free-for-all in subjects totally unrelated. To us at KW, it is sad also that this is representaive of so many other threads.

There will most certainly be a number of idiots banned completely, no more questions asked or answered. Make your own freaking forum and stop poluting ours! We don't want or need any more dorks. In fact, the whole kendo-world forums concept is under review. This is bloody pathetic.
I've been away from this forum or actually just reading the posts, and I'm astonished how asinine and vulgar this forum has become. It rivals some of the best tabloids around. This forum has gone into ENCHO too long. For the sake of saving face, the international kendo community would be better off without it.

Go and buy the magazine and on suggestion perhaps have a Letter to the Editor section to express our views or grievances.

[Andoru]

I disagree. I think this issue can be solved, or at least seriously mitigated by banning posters who are vulgar etc. This forum has been and will be a great source of information for budo practitioners.

[Raiza]

I also believe that the forum should be preserved, but with a firm commitment to moderation. Before the Kill Bill/Last Samurai movie releases, the content of this forum was exceptionally good. As with ANY forum where registration is free and anonymous, it must be moderated consistently and efficiently in order to maintain the level that serious budo practitioners know and love. It's extremely frustrating to report genuinely disruptive posts and nothing happens. I'm actually glad that this thread was created, as it has made the powers-that-be realize that something was seriously wrong, as it has been for some time now throughout the entire forum. The entire forum is polluted with samurai/ninja-wannabe's and the content posted by those individuals needs to be disposed of. If not, any incoming budo practitioner will presume that the place is just another cyberhole and all of the useful knowledge provided by genuine practioners on this board will be lost to them. This forum can be great again, but it's going to need a lot of work.

If the current moderators are too busy, they should be able to assign tentative and restricted moderator duties to long-term trustworthy members of the board who are able to function in that manner in order to complement the current moderators. The current moderators should retain the right to revoke moderator status for new moderators at any time as it's their board and their coin that's providing this forum for us. Also, along with registration confirmation, there should be included a strict set of rules for conduct on the board under which registration will be revoked if the rules are violated. Just having a FAQ section on the board itself is not sufficient.

And yes, I'm a subscriber to Kendo-World. Awesome magazine. There's plenty of room for both forms of media to exist as their purposes do not overlap.

Thumbs up to the aesthetic changes that have just been implemented!

[mingshi]

Sorry it's my fault every single time. I apologize!!! :cry: I'd go back to lurking mode from now on...

Please just let me keep my PM and the contacts built entirely out of participation in the KW forums. I have met countless fellow forumites throughout the UK, in Europe, and around the world. You cannot believe the amount of people shaking hands with me saying "Mingshi from the Kendo World Forums!". Many of whom I actually practiced with, if not say hello to.

Maybe we are just bored teenagers (... :beard: ) I could have stayed quiet but instead I choose to bash the trolls/ flame the flames. Just because I don't want to see the damage spreading, not because I was looking for trouble... But I think the result is counter-productive -- but that's just meee.

There must be at least double the amount of people reading than posting. I am not sure if this is the reason for the existing posts being low-quality because the more experienced stayed away and not contributing (why? for the sake of saving face?). Or are we getting bored and running out of good things to say/share? Without participation of the experience, of course you are left with a bunch of people with "Shodan Disease" -- Who was to blame?

What do you think you can benefit from the forums? Everyone has a different anwser to it. I see more advantages than disadvantages. Teenagers are not every rich you know... (we need the free service) I can only borrow the KW mag once in a while from other kendoka (they only come out once in a while anyway), if possible.

I've said too much. I have said enough. - I apologize again. Good luck for the rest of you.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I think the forums are valuable. One way to help clean them up is to get rid of handles. People tend to be more circumspect when posting under their real name. Post by post moderation is a time-consuming and tricky thing. I'm one of the moderators on RMAM and I have to say it hasn't been all that successful. People like their forums to be a little bit free-wheeling. It should be sufficient to identify the worst offenders and suspend or boot them rather than having to micromanage the whole affair.

[Old Warrior]

I have learned an incredible amount from a number of the posters. I have tried to post serious inquiries and for the most part everyone has sought to be helpful. At first, my Kendo knowledge was almost nonexistant and it was hard to gauge who had something worthwhile to contribute. Now, I don't even bother to look at a thread when I see the poster is someone on my list of "jerks". On the other hand, even if a thread is of no apparent interest, I check it out, if certain other people have supplied a comment.

I would eliminate any flames section and put people on probation if they are rude or outright profane. I am definitely not a prig nor do I support censorship but if the forum gets too permeated with garbage, its not worth the effort to visit. So, I can live with censorship when it relates to demanding reasonably good manners. If someone persists in spewing innappropriate rhetoric, I would simply ban them from posting.

I would also ban political commentary, unless it relates to the politics of Kendo. I don't think the forum needs to give a place to the fringe elements who thrive on the spotlight for their inflammatory opinions. Lastly, while historical events in my lifetime have provided ample reason for one nation, ethnicity or religion to have negative feelings toward another, we would all be better served if we saw each other as members of the "Kendo Family" and treated each other with respect. Nothing less than that should be tolerated from anybody.

[AlexM]

Five things:

1) Bans for outright physical threats (those are few and far between but they should nonetheless be abolished).

2) If you can, track I.P. addresses when it is believed that a person is posting under several different handles: and then ban them outright.

3) Encourage the use of real names. I stand by idiotic opinions and my use of sarcasm.

4) Let some of the free-wheeling continue (let's not go overboward) but perhaps those that systematically interrupt threads (with personal insults and off-topic remarks in particular) and troll should have their accounts suspended.

5) Raiza's suggestion is probably a good one: name a few sub-moderators or something of the sort. Take some of the work load off of yourselves.

There honestly aren't so many problem posts or posters that the boards have to be done away with. I can only think of a few nasty individuals that would get a warning and only one whom I would ban outright immediately (for using physical threats).

My .02$

[Jin-e]

Right, it's not because some people where annoying you have to take down the entire forum. I don't post a lot (because of my bad english) but I have read a lot on this forum which somehow helped me out. Going to the kendo world forum became a part of everyday life after,,, eh,,, school... Anyway, plz don't take down the forum

Peace

[Musha]

I'm sorry too if I was causing any trouble. I don't know what most of you think of me but if you review my posts I hope you will notice that I almost never use swear words or start arguments.
I can't say I have ever found this forum useful except when I wanted to know about Nito ryu and a really good video documentary that was posted and I am still trying to get it on VCD :D. But apart from that I can say I have never been called or heard any thing like what people have called me on this forum and the way people talk. Some people have to change there attitudes or be warned and band all together...

For example:-

Yowai
Litige
Hai_Hai
Ali_G
xxVinkingxx

[litige]

For example:-

Yowai
Litige
Hai_Hai
Ali_G
xxVinkingxx


Well, if you would have understood some of the points here, you wouldn't have posted those names. It will maybe start unecessary (SPL?) argues. But I don't think you have the right to point out people like this. Just because you said you where sorry doesn't grant you the right point people and tell moderators what to do with them...They certainly know the ones they were talking about, they didn't need some help...If they judge the conduct of people here they will advise them. Moderators surely don't need an agent.

[Alex]

Thank you all for your feedback. We are reveiwing things now. We will certainly take all of your suggestions into consideration.

Alex

[iwatekenshi]

Thank you all for your feedback. We are reveiwing things now. We will certainly take all of your suggestions into consideration.

Alex
Thank you. I'm looking forward to seeing some changes.