Suburi at home

[Simon Chien]

Hi Everyone ,

I am curious about what kind of suburi practice did you do at home when there's no class in the dojo ?

Since I go to dojo once a week , I'll do the following suburi everyday ( if I stay at home rather than travel to other city) :

Quantity hand holding on Shinai
----------- ----------------- ---------------------- --------------------
150 left hand end of tsuka 500 g
150 right hand near tsuba 500 g
150 both normal 500 g
150 both normal 1000 g

How about your suburi practice ?

Regards,:)

[gszab]

Hi there!

I ment to use an iaito if i want to practice suburi at home. It is a little bit shorter and heavier thana shinai, so i dont hit the ceiling of my room and it is fairly stregthening.
I usually do only shomen suburi and katate suburi for about half an hour.

:)

[KhawMengLee]

jeez...you guys make me feel slack...well I am anywayz....

I do about 3 sets of 50 Hiya Suburi and thats it.

Maybe about a 100 one handed with a wine bottle filled with sand.

MENG

[kendokamax]

I don't do any suburi at home,

I have to start to do that soon I guess.

but too lazy to remember to do so.

[lewis]

I do either 200 or 500 jogeiburi with a 1500g suburito everyday, depending on whether it is a day of weight training (500 on the off day).

I do it primarily for my wrist and hand (grip) strength, arms and shoulders I get from weight training. I recently purchased a Brazilian-made Miyazaki suburito that is very blade heavy but still shorter than my Musashi oar style suburito, making it an even better wrist work out.

[taiwnezboi]

lewis: what's a suburito?

[Ian Russell]

Originally posted by taiwnezboi
lewis: what's a suburito? If I may reply... Suburito (no, its not mexican foodstuff) usually look like oversized bokuto (aka bokken), used for strength training in a similar manner as the tanren bo (http://ejmas.com/pt/ptart_taylor_1200.htm) (usually bigger)).

For a visual aid, look here (http://sdksupplies.netfirms.com/cat_stdweapons.htm) about midway down for a side by side comparison of bokuto and suburito.

Cheers,

[taiwnezboi]

ohhh.. thanks Ian.. yeah I use the "tanren bo".. I think most people use that?

[saki_wooah]

my ceiling is too low, I tried once... and I don't the time to. I know I should... I have 3 practices per week, which isn't too bad.

[Aoi]

Due to my work, I can only train once or twice a week as well. Until two years ago, I used to do about 1000 every morning in my so called "garden"... (more likely a "space" between my house and the neighbour...) Now I'm very slack, and I only do suburi on weekends. I try to do at least 1000 on Saturday and 2000 on Sunday. 200 jogeburi as a warm-up to loosen the shoulders and the wrist, then shomen for the rest. It depends on how I feel on the day, but I try to keep the suburi to big but fast ikkyodo. Did use tanrentou a while... quite a while back, but should be careful with the useage of it, for I know a couple of people who did injure their shoulders from over doing suburi with it.
My sensei, though he is in his 70s, does 3000 every morning... just thought I'll add that in.
hmmm I should try to do more suburi... Thanks for reminding me! :)

[Simon Chien]

Hi Aoi,

The arm of your sensei must be as big as his thigh. 3000 suburis every morning ! That's the total for a whole week for me !

By the way , can you explain a little bit about " jogeburi " ? What's the difference between jogeburi and suburi ? Thanks !

Hi lewis,

A sempai at dojo told me not using anything over 1000 g for suburi training since one get her or his shoulder hurt easily using over-weighted suburito or bo. Is that true ? May be it wo'nt be a problem for you since your are as strong as Tarzen !

Hi MENG ,

Gee ! A wine bottle filled with sand seems to be a good solution for me since I travel a lot. Thanks ! By the way , can you explain what is Hiya Suburi ? Jumping Suburi ? If yes , where do you think that the shinai should stop when jumping to the front ? as high as the head or under the knee ? I saw both of them. Do'nt know which one is correct.

Hi gszab,

It's a good idea to swing a iaito for suburi. I'd like to try it once I get my iaito.

[lewis]

Really heavy suburito can be very damaging - especially if you try to do shomen or practice kote with them. Stopping a very heavy weapon can easily do damage because it puts way too much stress on the joints. That's why you should limit suburito use to jogeiburi. Switch to a shinai or bokken for everything else.

Simon: jogeiburi is the really big motion suburi with no snap at the end. All the way back to touch your tailbone (softly) and all the way forward to (almost) the floor. Use your right hand only for guiding. Left hand does all the lifting and pulling and should get tired quickly.

Simon - again: I used to have a cheap weight set that had a short dumbell bar and, instead of putting it together with a weight on each side of the handle piece, I put the handle piece on one end. It was a great shoulder/arm workout (you know, 3 sets-10 reps sort of thing). That might work with the new water-fillable dumbells - just fill one side. Don't ever try suburi with it, though. You'll knock a hole in the floor on the first swing. Also, we always do jump suburi men high (note that I didn't say that is the 'correct' way to do it).

Aoi: 3000 suburis is truly amazing. My jogeiburi take about 2 seconds per swing. At that rate, 3000 suburis would take me 1 hour 40 minutes if I didn't stop for air. My arms hurt just thinking about it.

[Ares2907]

lewis: 3000 suburis is truly amazing. . .

I wonder at what point the number of suburi in a single session stops being beneficial and starts becoming ridiculous.

A sensei by the name of Chiba (whose first name escapes me) did 4000 per day in the lead up to the All Japan tournament (which he won). Not sure over what period of time this lead up involved, but I'm sure you could get into a fantastic pissing contest about who does the most suburi daily.

I'd be more interested to see studies about optimal number of suburi/shomen uchi dependent on training goals (such as muscular development, technique improvement etc etc).

[KhawMengLee]

Gee ! A wine bottle filled with sand seems to be a good solution for me since I travel a lot. Thanks ! By the way , can you explain what is Hiya Suburi ? Jumping Suburi ? If yes , where do you think that the shinai should stop when jumping to the front ? as high as the head or under the knee ? I saw both of them. Do'nt know which one is correct.

Yup, thats right, jumping suburi. But it depends, there are different variations to it. We have done hiya suburi hitting kote and men. So doing hiya suburi at joge buri(at knees) level is also valid. Basically at the dojo warmup its what the sensei says but at home you can do whatever you want.

There are also variations to kirikaeshi like doing DO cuts instead of Men. It is a bit tricky since you have to turn the DO to face the cuts instead of moving the shinai left to right.

ps. you can use a wine bottle filled with anything. Even sitting down to build up strenght in the cutting arm. But one should not neglect good suburi with proper foot and hand movements. The cut involves the whole body not just the hands.

remember, Ki-Ken-Tai Ichi! (Spirit, Sword and Body as one)

PEACE
MENG

[Vagabond]

Talking about sand and suburi, anyone tried suburi at the beach? I tried and can tell you, its a leg killer.

[Tato]

Yes, I did on this sumer break, when a went to the coast (I live in Madrid, and there's no beach here :( ).

Yes it's a leg killer, but I think it's really cool to do subury at afternoon, with the sea breeze.

And because Kendo is quite unusual in Spain, you will attract some funny regards...

The worst, hayi suburi.

The best, doing some Kata.

[olaf]

Wow, you fellas sure are impressive. I occasionally do the following: matawari suburi, 100 times, slowing each strike down to 4+ seconds.

It's basically a "squatting" version of suburi involving no footwork. You start up with your feet apart, perhaps as wide apart as your shoulders. With each strike, you do as you usually would with regular suburi drills, except standing still. On the downswing, you bend your knees so that you squat. Some people choose to stop the up-down motion and do all the suburi in the squatting position after a certain point, maybe after 50 strikes.

Naturally, remaining in the squatting position longer will prove more tiring. Bending your knees more, almost as if you were doing a wall-sit, will make the workout more vigorous too.

[Dwayne P.]

Which my hectic work schedule, I'm only able to do Suburi two to three times a week (when not in class). I'll start out (after stretching of course) doing jogeiburi with a good weighted Suburito (like Lewis mentions above). Wearing a Walkman, I'll do jogeiburi through anywhere from 4 to 7 songs. Basically 20 to 35 minutes. By that time my shoulders, back and forearms are nice and tired.

Only resting for a moment I'll pick up a shinai and do men, kote, do and tsuki. Anywhere from 40 to 100 strikes each depending on how my body is feeling that particular day. I really concentrate on technique at this point. Not only challenging me physically but mentally as well.

I recall the first day I signed up to Kendo classes. I remember seeing a suburito with a nice chunk of concreate caked on the end of it. I asked the head instructor what in the world he did with that contraption, not knowing any better at that point in time. He turned to me and simply said "Many suburi!"

[Simon Chien]

Hi ALL,

Thanks for your support on the issue.

After two weeks since the 1st post of the thread , here're my daily suburi at home whether or not there's a dojo training :
100 - left hand only - hold on the end of tsuka - normal shinai
100 - right hand only - hold on near tsuba - normal shinai
100 - left hand only - hold on the end of tsuka - normal shinai
100 - right hand only - hold on near tsuba - normal shinai
100 - both hand - big suburi - 1000 g shinai
100 - both hand - big suburi - 1000 g shinai
100 - both hand - jump suburi - normal shinai
100 - both hand - jump suburi - normal shinai

I'll take a brief rest once a session is done especailly for jump suburi. I feel so tired after all the suburi .....................

Will increrase jump suburi to 400 if I can ..................

Thanks again .....................

[chidokan]

dont forget about the ceiling lamps, I broke 3 so far...wife isnt too keen on that.
So I put in spots!!! Also a craze in the U.K. for wooden flooring which I have taken advantage of.... my own dojo in the house!!! Brilliant!!!

Tim Hamilton

[burger boy]

does everyone out there have really tall ceilings or what? where does eveyone practice when at home? That seems to be my issue, finding a good practice spot when not at the dojo. I've knicked the hell out of the living room ceiling and have had to give that up. there's always outside I guess, but that won't do in the dark or cold I suppose...

[alexpollijr]

Try with a bokuto.. They're smaller than the shinai. That's the solution I've found.

Otherwise, do it on your knees.

[olaf]

Yes, practicing suburi with bokuto not only solves the low-ceiling problem, I think it gives you a better feel for how you should really be handling the shinai when you do suburi with it, or when you practice striking men in keiko.

I've noticed that many a dojo start off their beginners by having them train primarily with bokuto.

[akihiro]

Multitask, do suburi while sitting in seiza.

[Kendoboy]

Lately, I've been using a cricket bat. it's nice and short, but a good weight.

[Haowen]

Are suburi-to really useful? Won't they mis-train your arm to get used to swinging something large and heavy and totally unlike a shinai? Just wondering because it's a Phys. Ed. doctrine that you don't mimic the actions of your sport with stuff that isn't actually your sport, e.g. boxing with hand-weights actually trains your hits to be slower, etc.

Based on what I've read, bokuto/shinai suburi for speed and form + aggressive weight training for strength might be a better way of spending your time, but I'm never even seen a suburi-to, so I've no idea. What do you guys think?

[alexpollijr]

I'm not a physician but I have a suburito of the same lenght of a 39 shinai but 2.5 times the weight and with an oval grip. I use it everynight for five hundred suburi of various types and I've found out that I've built some nice strenght in the arms, back and wrists.

So now most dobari shinais feel almost like a toothpick now. I've also found that doing warmups in keiko with a suburito (say, 300 suburi of various types) also helps to get this 'light' feel on the shinai.

Now, i'm struggling to build up hip strenght. Unfortunately, I don't know of any exercises to do that at home. If someone has any tips on lower body strenght, i'd be very grateful

Alex Polli

[brianb]

Here's mine:
100 Jogeiburi
100 men uchi ni kyo do
100 kote uchi
200 sayu men suburi

That's about it, just 500 a day. I do this indoors with bokken, in front of a mirror. Takes less than 30 minutes before breakfast.

Occasionally, I will do this routine with shinai while wearing kote.

[Gorget-the-Frog]

Originally posted by alexpollijr
Try with a bokuto.. They're smaller than the shinai. That's the solution I've found.

Good solution if your ceiling is just barely too short for an shinai...

However with an average height ceiling? Let's just say that an accidental strike does quite a bit of damage.

*looks up at the hole*

[David J]

A solution some have tried is to cut down an old shinai...

http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108

<rei>

Dave

[etherknot]

I must be lucky. I have large vaulted celings in the house where I am. Shorten my shinai? I think not!
However if the weather is nice, do your suburi outside, on the lawn or in a nice park.
Ok, might not be such a good idea this time of year for those of us living in the Frozen Country of Canada... :D

[Gorget-the-Frog]

Originally posted by etherknot
However if the weather is nice, do your suburi outside, on the lawn or in a nice park.
Ok, might not be such a good idea this time of year for those of us living in the Frozen Country of Canada... :D

Don't exagerate, it's not that bad. You could still practice outside!
Heck, it's only -5°C, great weather for this time for year.

*laughs* Hopefully it'll cool off a bit more and we'll have another snow fall soon. Halloween just doesn't seem like halloween without a foot of snow on the ground ;)

[etherknot]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gorget-the-Frog
[B]

Don't exagerate, it's not that bad. You could still practice outside!
Heck, it's only -5°C, great weather for this time for year.

Let's do suburi barefoot in the snow when it's -35
below! :D

To think; three months ago I was wisecracking in the dojo about how cold it will be while everybody was sweating in 35
weather...

[rottunpunk]

Originally posted by etherknot
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gorget-the-Frog
[B]


Let's do suburi barefoot in the snow when it's -35
below! :D



sadist...no offense
:p

if im feeling inclined i do as many cuts as i can till i get bored or tired, but never less than 100, and just vary on what cut i do, like 10 to each men, horizontal (for iaido) 10 to geidan, chudan , do etc.

but thats hardly ever, i can allways find better things to do...like sleep-hehe

:p

[Martin (Wakey)]

For what it's worth here is what I've done so that I can do Suburi at home.

I went to a hardware depot and got some rigid but hollow plastic tubing approx. the same length and diameter as the tsuka on a shinai.

I then sealed one end with gaffer tape (not sure what it's called outside of the UK but its thick, black and sticky as f**k). I then got some sand and measured it to the same weight as a Shinai.

Fill the handle with it taking care to even the weight out over the whole length. I used densely packed cotton wool (it weighs next to nothing) to space the areas of sand out. I then sealed the other and Voila, a training weight affording the same grip and hand spacing as a Shinai. If you want more weight add more sand.

I knew watching Blue Peter would come in handy one day!! All I need now is a proper tsuka-gawa and I'm sorted.

[Andoru]

Wouldn't a chokuto shinai serve more or less the same purpose?

[Martin (Wakey)]

Wouldn't a chokuto shinai serve more or less the same purpose?
Possibly..... But making your own equipment is so much more er.... hardcore!:wink:

[chidokan]

So sleep is more important than practise Miss (I use the term loosely)rottunpunk????? We will see how your philosophy changes on Sunday. Dont forget 10 til 4 for some people will involve enjoying practising all the seiza no bu waza. For you however we will try something different. I wonder how many cuts you can do in six hours? I (and no doubt the other teachers) will be interested in finding out. :laugh:
You have now learnt my second rule of Martial Arts.... never post just before a seminar when your teacher can read it....

For a short shinai imitator use the top third of a pick axe handle, its a little large in the grip but gives a nice feel and balance.

[DCPan]

Wouldn't a chokuto shinai serve more or less the same purpose?

Furisen (http://www.furisen.com/)

[kenshin13]

Furisen (http://www.furisen.com/)
Whoa. That looks really weird. Anyways, I haven't started doing suburi exsercises ( i geuss i should) but if you have high ceilings, wouldnt it be easier to just buy one of these? http://http://www.bogubag.com/Shinai/tsuburiko_L.jpg

Instead of a heavier shinai thats costs like 60$? (US)

[Andoru]

Furisen (http://www.furisen.com/) So size DOES matter! :D

/me waits for Hai_hai's post.

[DCPan]

if you have high ceilings, wouldnt it be easier to just buy one of these? http://http://www.bogubag.com/Shinai/tsuburiko_L.jpg

Instead of a heavier shinai thats costs like 60$? (US)

The whole point of Furisen is for folks without high ceiliings. It supposedly is balanced like a longer shinai...unlike tsuburiko, making the whole thing tip heavy.

If you have high ceiling, then it is a non-issue. I'd sooner get a suburi-shinai or suburi-to over a tsuburiko.

FWIW

[kenshin13]

The whole point of Furisen is for folks without high ceiliings. It supposedly is balanced like a longer shinai...unlike tsuburiko, making the whole thing tip heavy.

If you have high ceiling, then it is a non-issue. I'd sooner get a suburi-shinai or suburi-to over a tsuburiko.

FWIW
why would you rather get a suburi-to? and wouldn't the furisen be a bit unbalanced?

[DCPan]

why would you rather get a suburi-to? and wouldn't the furisen be a bit unbalanced?

I would rather get a suburi-to or suburi-shinai because the tsuburiko feels like an "axe-head" attachment when I tried it. The suburi-to and suburi-shinai do feel tip heavy, but not in the axe-like way.

As for the furisen...I haven't tried it myself, but they advertise the balance and feel of a full-length shinai, despite the visual.

FWIW.

[itachi]

You can do suburi in sonkyo position, that way you can also build your calves muscles, and also its good exercise becasue you need to keep back straight aswell.

[indigo0086]

I think I'll start with sonkyo, sankyou :). I just got a 36 shinai today (by mistake) and the first thing my retarded 6'1 butt tried to do was a suburi. Almost blew the light fixture off. The roof is like 8'9 or so. Also, how woudl I go about doing the left handed suburi where you hit your back in the standing position. How exactly do you do that in sonkyo

[mad_god]

Talking about sand and suburi, anyone tried suburi at the beach? I tried and can tell you, its a leg killer.

HAHAHAHA
Shuugyou ga tarinai.
Suburi in the sand is a joke!
You must practice at the sand.
Or inside the water. With strong waves.
That's the real Way of Sword.

MAD GOD

[mad_god]

lewis: 3000 suburis is truly amazing. . .

I wonder at what point the number of suburi in a single session stops being beneficial and starts becoming ridiculous.

A sensei by the name of Chiba (whose first name escapes me) did 4000 per day in the lead up to the All Japan tournament (which he won). Not sure over what period of time this lead up involved, but I'm sure you could get into a fantastic pissing contest about who does the most suburi daily.

I'd be more interested to see studies about optimal number of suburi/shomen uchi dependent on training goals (such as muscular development, technique improvement etc etc).

What really matters is the spirit during the suburi.
And continue it EVERYDAY.
If you cannot use it in the real fight, it's waste of time.

MAD GOD

[Andou]

I agree with mad god when the point of spirit comes up. Doing 200 sloppy suburi wouldn't do you as good as say 100 good, proper, and crisp suburi. Personally, I end the day at about 4-500 with variations in types if I'm in a rush. I'm not really too sure what my daily routine is, I haven't really counted. I usually do them until I can see the proper way in my movement and then some. I've never seen what my max is, though...I'll try that soon and build upon that.

[mad_god]

I agree with mad god when the point of spirit comes up. Doing 200 sloppy suburi wouldn't do you as good as say 100 good, proper, and crisp suburi. Personally, I end the day at about 4-500 with variations in types if I'm in a rush. I'm not really too sure what my daily routine is, I haven't really counted. I usually do them until I can see the proper way in my movement and then some. I've never seen what my max is, though...I'll try that soon and build upon that.

Remind to use also a proper weight shinai when doing too many suburis.
Personally I don't do many suburis.
But I do everyday.
Peace.

MG