First Kata

[Musha]

Hi all, I did not know where to put this so I added it here.

I have been learning the kata for a long time. For the first Kata my sensei always says that when Uchidachi and doing hidari Jyodan that you just raise your Bokken like with Migi jyodan. But some one from another Dojyo and the book I have been reading says that you point the kensen to your right like in Jyodan kendo.

My sensei says that this is stupid and said that in a book by a sensei near London called Paul Buden called 'Looking at a far mountain' it says just keep the Bokken pointing straight up.
Any one know which is correct? :(.

[Pauly]

All the books I have seen say tilt your bokken to the right while in hidari-jodan. All the people I see doing kata from junior high school students to 8th dan sensei's tilt their bokken to the right.

But try both and see which you like the best and which makes the most sense to you. Neither is stupid.

[Musha]

Thanks Pauly,

I like the tilting method much more because it seems more offensive but when I did it at my Dojyo my sense would not let me. He also said I would fail if I did that at a grading so that is why I am worried :surprise:..

[Neil Gendzwill]

Well, you must do as your sensei asks, but everybody I've ever learned from says that you angle it to the right in hidari-jodan. This applies anytime in the kata that you take hidari-jodan (#1, #5, #6, #8).

[Musha]

Strange... Does any one have 'Looking at a far mountain'? Can any one tell me what it says there?

[Neil Gendzwill]

You don't need that, just look at the ZNKR kata videotape.

[Musha]

I mean if my sensei says that is what it says in this one book and it is stupid. I wonder what it says in this book that says it is entirely wrong to do tilted Jyoudan.

When learning about Nito it believe that if you can tilt the shinai you can block or easily go into Kasumi. I don't see why this would be a bad thing to do. It could be because in Kendo it is best to stick to the Seichu sen( Centre line) but if that was true there would be no forth kata that includes Hassou.

[Pauly]

Strange... Does any one have 'Looking at a far mountain'? Can any one tell me what it says there?
Hmmm... I'm curious, too, what it says there. If your sensei said you will fail if you don't hold your bokuto straight then there must be some kind of logic behind it...?

Anyway, with that "don't do and fail" motivation, follow Gendzwill-san's advice and "do as your sensei asks". That is the best advice. You will have the time and spirit to learn the kendo you want to learn after passing "the man's" test.

[Musha]

I think I better do what my sensei says because is it extremely rude and stops you learning if you argue but I really like Kendo kata and when I am older maybe even do a display in formal hakama and Haori with Shinken :D.
I am trying to save for a DVD showing then 1929 and 30 Tenran shiai and learn how people like Nakayama hakudo and old Kendo-ka do the Kata.

Oh but I had a thought maybe I could E-mail the man who wrote 'Looking at a far mountain'. He is still doing kendo and has a web site..

[Musha]

Here is the site by the way

http://www.pabudden.com/kodokan/index.shtml

[Rularn]

From my own personal understanding of jodan and hitting from jodan... in hidari jodan, you are leading with the left foot with the intent of hitting with the left foot. In this case, you should be making your shinai an extension of your left arm (ie: tilting to the right) so as you hit down, you have alot more reach and speed as you rotate down with the left elbow and wrist.

In migi jodan, it is the opposite. You are leading with your right foot and have the intent to hit normally with both hands. So it would be more natural to down straight down from a high center position to hit men or whatever.

[Musha]

Interesting post Rularn,

I don't quite know what to say but I think I understand that tilting the Bokuto is related to your left foot.

I like to try and understand every part of each kata. In One it seems like Uchidachi is pushing forwards with his left foot and Shidachi is defending leaning back.
That is why it seemed so strange to have the Uchidachi's Tsukasaki (End of tsuka) pointing down when tilting and so almost pointing the Tsukasaki at your opponent feels much better.

Thanks for the post..I'll think about that.. :D.

[sjp]

Oh but I had a thought maybe I could E-mail the man who wrote 'Looking at a far mountain'. He is still doing kendo and has a web site..


Or you could go on one of the 'Kata Seminars' that Paul runs at his dojo
'Kodokan'. Its probabley 2 1/2 to 3 hrs drive from Manchester. Or alternatively you could ask him face to face at the Stoke Seminar in July as he is one of the instructors for that weekend.

[Musha]

I was thinking of that a while ago but I don't have a car so it is pretty far for me and I don't have a job :(. It was also on Saturday wasn’t it?

I hope to take my grading in Stoke and go to the Premieres or Bowden. May see you there :D.

P.s Did you go to the AGM? I think I met your sensei then :).

[roar]

In Buddens book, the bokuto is straight up when the right foot is forward, and tilted when the left is forward. There is no explicit explanation, and the pics are not that clear, bit though

Look at these
http://www.shinzen-dojo.net/le_dojo/les%20gardes/les_gardes.html

[emitbrownne]

Look at these
http://www.shinzen-dojo.net/le_dojo/les%20gardes/les_gardes.html
Isnt the Hasso stance wrong on these pictures??? Wrong foot forward.. causing your body to twist and inhibiting the pull-push cutting action?

or am I just being stoopid?

[Musha]

I heard that when you do Hidari jyoudan your tsuka saki (End of the tsuka) should point towards the foot which is forwards. The man in the link doing Hassou has the Tsuka saki pointing to the space where his foot should be. I think you are right Emit :D.

P.s Did you get back from Japan? How was it? When I was there for a few weeks I took 100s of photos hope I can see some on the Internet or from Mark.

[roar]

You are right on that one. I was focussing only on jodan, so I did not look to closely on the other pictures. :)