The Shinai club... Haaaaa... Look at these people

[Blue Bogu]

I personally think this is so disrectful to kendo. www.shinai.org (http://www.shinai.org)

[Zaxser]

...except for the fact that it has nothing to do with kendo. If they wanna act like idiots, let them have their fun.

[not-I]

I personally think this is so disrectful to kendo. www.shinai.org (http://www.shinai.org)
this link has been posted a few times already. they obviously have no kendo pretensions and seem to be having fun. i personally think it's nothing more or less than a good laugh.

[Musuko]

Wow, that's just really sad. I wonder how many of them actually think they are really sword fighting.

[Twobitmage]

well technically they are swordfighting...but are they swordfighting well? ahh..

[Musuko]

O_o

Good point.

I'm impressed that they have so many...um...members...

[Bleda]

Let the people have their fun. Aslong as they don't pretend to be real swordsman i don't really care.

[Serenity]

:eek: & :shocked: -> "Shinai Club" -> offence form Kendo :tired:

I just hope that they don't get hurt.

Serenity :devious:

[GBN]

I don't see anything wrong with what they are doing. Is it insulting to baseball if someone juggles with some baseballs? No. They are using shinai to have fun. What's so wrong about that? They are not claiming to be kendo masters or anything of the sort. If I still lived in OC I'd go check out their scene.

Brian

[darkluc3]

hehe, would be funny to challenge them to a "battle" :) 20 kendoka vs. 20 of them, lol... or just looking the sensei fighting against some "warriors"...

but ok, if they want to be ridiculous...

[reitkt]

I've seen something similar on TV in Japan long time ago actually. It was a TV report(Japanese version of "Give me a Break") on "chambala" school and instead of shinai they were using padded swords. They actually had their own indoor facility and there was quite a bit of practioners too. The rule is you can hit anywhere and one looses after the second hit, similar to shiai.
Needless to say, it was entertaining to watch.

[Leon]

Ok people….to play the devils advocate….don’t you think we are getting a bit pretentious here. I find it quite humorous when we make fun of pseudo-swordfighting groups, when practically speaking, we are a pseudo-swordfighting group ourselves (albeit one that retains a high level of technique from the actual practice itself).

The paradox of practicing with a sword, against another opponent, is that we cannot engage in the ‘true’ activity without causing great harm to the person we are practicing with. The sole purpose of a real weapon is to destroy what lies on the other end of it. To simulate this endeavor, gaining skill without harming others, we must construct weapons soft or light enough to not harm the human body, or we must construct armor that is harder than the weapon (Newtonian physics at work). But in this attempt, having different equipment to contend with, we deviate from the techniques used in a real fight.

To emphatically state that kendo is the closest thing to ‘the real’ is, I believe, a fallacy. Like any pseudo-sword art, the techniques used in kendo have adapted and evolved over time. Many techniques used in ‘the real thing’ have been retained (body posture, correct suburi, etc.) Others have evolved as nuances of an indoor-competition environment, while others have evolved to maximize the benefit of the lightness of a shinai.

To look with disdain at these groups is akin to a certain level of snobbery. True, their technique (if any) is laughable. Yet, in some respect, they are closer to the real thing than we are.

For example, I have built and used many of those ‘foam swords’ that these kinds of groups use. They can be built to match the weight of a real sword (unlike a shinai) and, if made properly, can be swung with the same amount of force.

Also, they have access to any point on the body. Head, legs, chest, etc…etc….any thing is game. Archaeologists, excavating the battlefields of medieval Europe, have noted that the head and legs were the most damaged strike zones. In kendo, the legs are, of course, not permissible to hit. Thus, in this respect, we deviate from the ‘real thing’, not being able to hit this striking area.

To my point then. Every psuedo-sword art is a deviation from the real. It all comes down to a matter of degree. To make fun of other groups is in effect to make fun of what we do. It is perilous to tread in that critical arena, without thinking critically about ourselves.

Leon

[Hongsermeier]

Seen this before. I talked to someone who practices kendo who has been to this place. He said they wouldn't fight against us because we hit too hard. Apparently a light tap is all they allow. Interesting for some fun with friends. :cross_eye:

[Ren Blade]

They remind me of these guys. http://www.rsw.com.hk

[not-I]

[...] Every psuedo-sword art is a deviation from the real. It all comes down to a matter of degree. To make fun of other groups is in effect to make fun of what we do. It is perilous to tread in that critical arena, without thinking critically about ourselves.

Well said, Leon.

However, when critically considering our own motivations for practicing kendo, i think its status as a simulation of "authentic" or "real" swordfighting becomes a rather moot question, as kendo is much more than this. The more we practice, the more we become aware that kendo is a Way of cultivation of mind, body and spirit rather than just a sport, hobby or school of techniques.

The value of a well-executed men-uchi, for instance, is not to be found in its approximation of a "real" skull-splitting cut, but in the beauty, dignity and utter simplicity of its form.

As kendoka, we are in the priviledged position of being able to receive not only the techniques, but also the traditions, education and sensei-student relationship of kendo, passed down through generations. Because of this, we can sometimes be or seem arrogant or snobbish toward the less priviledged. Which is a shame, because in kendo we should be gradually cutting off our own egos rather than pumping them up at the expense of others.

There is no reason to look down on folks like the shinai people, as they're not really even in the same category. They're just having their fun, and their only vague connection to kendo is the weapon they use (and often modify). Judging the "shinai club" with kendo on the same scale of "real" sword technique would not be flattering to them, and it does no service to kendo.

[hyouriittai]

They remind me of these guys. http://www.rsw.com.hk

Oh, no. Those are the guys that do "real sword test cutting" on animal body parts. Sometimes they wrapt hem in cloth or leather or whatever to simulate clothing .. kind'a makes you think.

[Curtis]

I have to agree with Leon here. We are a pseudo sword art like it or not. Modern kendo is simply not the same as the actual fighting techniques used outdoors on ground.

As regards to actual combat, most combatants in fact did not die from the sword. They died from the spear, arrows, stones, etc. A fact we seem to forget.

In kendo we are supposed to develop the sense of our opponent and ourselves. This is supposed to help us in our techniques against them. We can force certain behavior and techniques by pressure and to almost read their mind. This is predicated on the idea that they have a certain amount of skill level. I have found over the years that one of the most dangerous people is the beginner. How can you know or predict what they are going to do when they don't know. Very often they get in a wild cut. I think you might be surprised by some of these shinai people and others.

Do I believe there is some practical application of kendo, yes. The cuts we have in kendo were chosen for their difficulty. So if I can hit/cut you with accuracy on our designated targets, I can sure cut without accuracy in any other place if I choose.

Consider this also, there are 3 possible outcomes to a fight. You defeat them, they defeat you, or you both are wounded and/or killed. Add to that an unpredictable opponent and who knows which way it would go. There is always the lucky strike.

In the end none of this matters to me or my reasons for pursuing my kendo obsession. I derive great benefit from kendo. If I did not do kendo than it would be something else.

[darkluc3]

@renblade: hehe, didn't think there are so many stupid pages...

" 8. Why are you guys swinging wider than the cuts in Kendo and fencing?

Just like the unarmed martial arts competitions, there are sparring for points and sparring for knock out. Kendo and fencing are sparring for points and emphasize on hitting the opponent with light simulators, instead of simulating real swords fighting. Thus the tactics are different.

　

For example, in terms of powering method, Kendo and fencing do not emphasize on cutting through the target and inflict actual damage but hitting the opponent in high speed to get scores. Moreover, since the simulators used are much lighter than the real swords, the speed is exaggeratingly fast and required much less force, leading to the emergence of cuts powered by fingers movement. So the destination of force in Kendo and fencing is on the surface of the target, producing multiple light taps instead of one thorough cut through.

　

This tactic is different from the historical style for sure. In the real sword cutting with Katana and European Sabre, the tip will be cast out and the sword will move with its own momentum. The destination of the force is not on the surface but inside the target or even through the target. These cuts will doubtlessly travel a wider arc than the superficial cuts of Kendo and fencing. "


yeah yeah, "producing multiple light taps"- obviously they weren't hit on the men by a 4th dan like me last week (during the first training with bogu)- ouuch ;)

@leon: that are just our opinions, one doesn't need to be an 8th dan to find that it is ridiculous. if one likes it then ok, he is free to do what he wants. i wouldn't care if someone thinks that kendo is ridiculous...


do you know paintball ? i suppose it's just the same, only the weapons are different...

[Bleda]

In comparison to real sword strikes and movements kendo hits really are light taps.

[Leon]

As kendoka, we are in the priviledged position of being able to receive not only the techniques, but also the traditions, education and sensei-student relationship of kendo, passed down through generations. Because of this, we can sometimes be or seem arrogant or snobbish toward the less priviledged. Which is a shame, because in kendo we should be gradually cutting off our own egos rather than pumping them up at the expense of others.

There is no reason to look down on folks like the shinai people, as they're not really even in the same category. They're just having their fun, and their only vague connection to kendo is the weapon they use (and often modify). Judging the "shinai club" with kendo on the same scale of "real" sword technique would not be flattering to them, and it does no service to kendo.

……………………..

My sentiment exactly.

Truthfully, my opinion has developed as a result of being a member of a few of these groups. For over a decade, I have searched out and practiced with every weapons based combat group in my immediate area. Each time, I devoted myself hole heartedly to learning the techniques displayed.

Every pseudo-sword art is different, adaptations of environment, mentality, and tradition. I have fought with steel, wood, foam, bamboo, and many other materials. Each and every group that I visited had a different approach to fighting. From some I learned proper tactic/movement in large group combat. With others I learned how to wield items of defense, and weapons of various reach and purpose.

I would argue that even groups such as the shinai club have something to offer. And I wouldn’t be so confident as to assume that a well-trained kendoka could annihilate one of these guys.

You might, for example, be surprised out how ones stance and position must be changed when defending the legs from attack. As T. Lehtonen mentioned, their way of fighting is incomparable. Proper Kendo technique works when practicing Kendo, not necessarily when engaging in technique dissimilar to it.

Kendo is, however, different from every group I have fought with.

I agree that it differs on the level that T. Lehtonen outlined:

However, when critically considering our own motivations for practicing kendo, i think its status as a simulation of "authentic" or "real" swordfighting becomes a rather moot question, as kendo is much more than this. The more we practice, the more we become aware that kendo is a Way of cultivation of mind, body and spirit rather than just a sport, hobby or school of techniques.

The level of discipline, the precision of technique, the long cultural/methodological retention, and the pursuit of ‘the Way’…. these are elements of kendo that set it apart from the other sword arts that I have experienced.

Does this make it superior…..no.

Kendo stands on its own ground, incomparable, autonomous in form, distinct in character.

Superior/inferior…such distinctions are ultimately futile and fruitless.

Leon :wink:

[Wout]

light taps: I think not: In my club there is this shodan and if he hits your do it's like: him: do,
you: *gasp* 'where did all the air go all of a sudden?'

and that is without losing any style, thruthfully he does beautifull kendo 'large, relaxed, stylish, seemingly slow - I wont let that fool me again well maybe just a few times

"So the destination of force in Kendo and fencing is on the surface of the target, producing multiple light taps instead of one thorough cut through."

the destination of the force in kendo is 'not' the surface, if it was kendo would realy be a game of tag, and body movement would ba unnecessary. But I caén see them doing butchery kendo now, with trying to cut through the flesh: uncontrolled pushing the blade through the target with their right hand.

"Which is a shame, because in kendo we should be gradually cutting off our own egos rather than pumping them up at the expense of others."
seems the chambara ppl boost their own egos at expense of kendo



btw as for the shinai-club ppl, pff well they only claim to have fun, so am I to argue :)
If you play soccer on the street with a tin can it's not really soccer but hey in a way it is and it's fun.

[Bleda]

Its still a light tap as compared to the force he would be using if he ment to truley cleave you in half. Kendo you don't finish cuts for the most part, you stop the cut where its supposed to be for speed reasons. If you were really fighting the cut ends on the other side of the person not just on the surface. It may seem hard to you but if you want to feel hard fight someone who only does iai and let them practice real cuts on you. Now those sting.

[darkluc3]

And I wouldn’t be so confident as to assume that a well-trained kendoka could annihilate one of these guys.

i know what you mean, i've seen plenty of these situations in many sports. but here it's different, i'm sure a well trained kendoka wouldn't have any problems- after all, in chudan he can't be attacked and i don't think anyone of the shinai club knows this before receiving a tsuki ;)

@bleda: well, but i got hit on the head and it really felt as i had no men on and the whole head shook- i think that would be enough to kill (and that were very fast strikes, i got one kote-men after the other, so he didn't just strike with full power...)

[samurai999]

Sorta tacky IMHO, but its coo. Did somebody tell them that there are kendo dojos around? Maybe they can be coerced to join? Is this like chambara? Did anybody tell them about that?

Tim

[midnightdawn]

I think the depressing aspect of this is we are taught to have the greatest respect for the shinai..and they are kind of using it as a toy. I felt similarly when I saw a bunch of people buying like size 37 shinais at an anime convention and just messing around with them and dropping them.

mm but yea..i guess just let them have their fun. As long as they aren't dissing us. But someone should tell them its more fun to hit an armored person rather than worring about not hurting an unarmored one. :silly:

[Leon]

I think the depressing aspect of this is we are taught to have the greatest respect for the shinai..and they are kind of using it as a toy. I felt similarly when I saw a bunch of people buying like size 37 shinais at an anime convention and just messing around with them and dropping them.

Yes, but you must remember, they are not taught to have great respect for a shinai. Try telling them not to step over one, or never to lean on the tip. I'm sure you would get more than a few blank stares. :ponder: :ponder:

But someone should tell them its more fun to hit an armored person rather than worring about not hurting an unarmored one.

Ahhh...so true. Little taps and fluffy strikes can get more than a little annoying after awhile. Everyone needs to let em' fly every now and again.

Leon

[Stimpson J. Cat]

Oh, no. Those are the guys that do "real sword test cutting" on animal body parts. Sometimes they wrap them in cloth or leather or whatever to simulate clothing .. kind'a makes you think.
A few days ago I got a DVD in the mail from the Cold Steel company (yes, the people who made the non-traditional design most Americans now think of as a tanto). I can't get it to play in my crappy DVD player, so I don't know much about what's on it, including if they show any cutting with their Japanese style blades, but on the cover is a guy cutting horizontally through what looks like the middle section of a side of beef hanging on a meat hook with a European great sword. The DVD, along with another one which has what looks like a guy cutting 4 tatami with a kukri on the cover, appears to be available free from www.coldsteel.com (http://www.coldsteel.com). Like I said, I don't know if they show any cutting with them, but now they do make several varieties of katana and wakizashi, as well as more traditional tantos in their "Imperial" and "Warrior" series.

Standard disclaimer: I have no connection with Cold Steel Inc. other than buying a couple of their products, yada yada yada.

[Mitsurugi_xx]

This has nothing to do with kendo.. we can't put our standards on it. They have totally different rules, totally different styles. Just cause they are using shinais, it doesnt mean they are doing kendo or anything kendo related. I don't feel disrespected... Shinai is a good practice sword to use... flexible and safe.. I think that's why they also use it. It looks like they are having fun! so just let them be.

[Sithlord]

Hahahahah that is the funniest thing i have seen. Bunch of idiots running around with shinai's. ah well maybe it keeps them fit and good for a laugh.

As far as us challenging them, if we stick to our kendo form we will get our ass kicked cause they no nothing about kendo and will swing at anything. With no care for footwork and form.

Wonder wat the AJKF would think of this mockery..hahaha

[vintage]

Let me just say it again: I met these people.

They're actually kind of pretentious about it. Just last year, I was hanging out with some friends at The Hub (cafe right by to the Fullerton Train Station) and we walked over to the train tracks to watch the nerd jousting. I made a crack about how fun it would be to just jump in and cause havoc, and one of the spectators glared at me and said "We'd have you arrested." No sense of humor there.

Anyway, just thought I'd share :) Hi everyone.

[Revenir]

I actually think it looks kinda fun =P Would join them if I could, practise that in tandem with kendo, hehe. Need to have some wild sword fighting once in a while :smiley:

Btw, that faq thing where it said kendo comprises of light touches... well, when my sensei hits my men to demonstrate how hard the class should be hitting, my vision goes black for a second or two and I see stars for a while after.

I was also taught that we should be aiming to attack a point inside the opponent, like if you were going for do, you're aiming to hit all the way to the person's bellybutton or so but his side got in the way.

Maybe it's just me hitting too softly because my senseis keep telling me to hit harder.

[Bleda]

A real men strike would cause concussions etc. The target isn't inside the opponent is all the way through you down to the floor. If we all practised real men cuts then only real men (yes bad pun lol) would be stupid enough to do it.

[not-I]

Let me just say it again: I met these people.
You MET the shinai people?!

Please indulge us with a full report!

:wink:

[Lunchboxiswrong]

They're how I found kendo, it wasn't what I was looking for so because of them I found kendo. So I repect them

[DanDan]

lol
dorks...:rolleyes:

[pure fun]

Greeting to one and all!



First off let me say that whatever opinions you have, good or bad, should be expressed. I may not agree with what you say. But I will never stop fighting for your right to say it. With that being said, I am from the Shinai group. Please do not stop posting just because I am on the board. I would rather leave than to have that happen. I have been with the group for a number of years and have practiced on Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Yes each of these nights has a group, and each group is just slightly different. Although all of them spawned from the original Wednesday night group. The people by and large that fight at these practices fight more of a European middle ages style of fighting. They more closely resemble the rapier, and broadsword fighting done then, than any Eastern fighting. None of the fighting that I have done, or seen has much of anything to do with Kendo. Although there is one fighter at the Friday night practices that looks like he fights Kendo, and he wears the full Kendo armor. But he just spars with a few people and leaves before circle or battle. Let me explain what happens at practice. First there is sparing/training for about an hour or so. Then we circle, we all gather in a large circle and two fighters enter the circle. Then they fight to the first blood, or first hit that would draw blood if they had any type of sword in there hands. The fighter that has lost chooses a direction and the next fighter in that direction steps in and fights. We do this for about an hour or so. Then we call wall, and that is when the fun starts. We line up and two fighters are picked as captains, or queens and they pick back and forth one fighter until all have been selected. Then each team lines up on the edge of the battlefield. One on top and one on bottom. The call to battle is said and the teams normally walk toward each other. When in range we start fighting. Every fighter on the opposite team as you is an enemy and can be hit by you, or hit you. From any angle, including the back. So you can hit the guy in front of you, or next to you, what ever works. This is done until only one team is left alive. The hits are if you are hit in the limb you lose that limb. Two limbs and you are dead. A torso shot kills you, and any shot from behind kills you. The reason for the death from behind is that we can lob off your head, or we can touch your back. So out of safety we don’t hit the head, just the back, or arm from behind. We do not aim for the head unless the fighter has a helm on. Then it is a valid target, again for safety. We also do not thrust, and our power is no more than a welt. Once a team has won, we switch sides and fight again. We do this until one team has won twice. Then we call wall and the picking is done again by two different captains, and the battle is fought again. This makes up the bulk of the night, although sometimes we do different kinds of battles. So our fighting is more like big army battles of the middle ages than Eastern fighting. Comparing our fighting styles to Kendo is like comparing apples to oranges. Sorry for the long post, if you have any questions please feel free to ask. I will answer if I can.

[not-I]

[...] So our fighting is more like big army battles of the middle ages than Eastern fighting. Comparing our fighting styles to Kendo is like comparing apples to oranges.
Dear Pure Fun,

Thank you for taking the time to post here. I assume you read through this thread, so you know that many of us agreed about the apples and oranges comparison. I guess the main cause of misunderstanding is about the weapon we both use. In kendo, the shinai is considered to be representative of a katana, or Japanese sword, and treated as such in training and technique, so seeing it used in a radically different manner or twisted into various shapes makes some of us a little jumpy. :wink: But as you know, it is an ingenious device for sparring in a safe way and, from what you've said, seems to be equally suited for European-type swordfighting.

The only question i have is if and how you maintain your shinai. In kendo, shinai-maintainance is very important, as a damaged/splintered shinai can seriously hurt a sparring partner. Obviously, we wear armor and hit a lot harder, but i would think it should be an issue for you too.

Anyway, keep on truckin' :evolved:

[pure fun]

The main reason that we use shinai is the safety factor, as well as the ease of obtaining one. We do not use anywhere near the power I have been told is used in Kendo. Our shinai stay in relative good shape for a while. I myself take my shinai apart about every 6 months to sand, and then oil them once a year. I have not yet had to replace any of my shinais. As for modifying our shinais, we do this so that they more closely match the type of weapon we are simulating. The medieval broadsword, bastard sword, falchion, rapier, claymore, etc… Some of the fighters steam the bamboo and bend them so they are curved, others weight the pommel, others cut the handle down and weight the pommel, and others add basket hilts or cross hilts to them. We also use shields, and have experimented with axes, and daggers. We view the shinai kind of like a pocketknife, a utility tool that we can mold to fit our needs. I understand that your form teaches you different views about the shinai. But that is just like anything out there. Using a screwdriver for anything other than screws, or putting more than 50 lbs. in the trunk of a car, or taking a truck and lowering it, adding saddle bags to a motorcycle, using a kitchen knife on leather, using a calculator on math, cutting tap with scissors. All of these things really bug people who are trained to use these things in specific ways, as for others that never had the training. It is not viewed as odd, or bad at all.

[pure fun]

So are their any other questions that I could answer? It looked like there were people with questions, so I was going to try and answer them best I could. But either my origonal post was so well done that it answered all questions, or my presence here has cause all to stop commenting. Good or bad, let me know what you think or want to know. Or if you would like me to go away I will do that also. If you are curious another option is look up a local group in your area, there are groups like ours in CA, NY, TX, CO, NV, FL, MN, IL, UT, we have heard from people in Canada, Russia, Poland, France, even England one of the guys from the group told us that there was a group in Japan, but I would have no idea how to try and spell what he said. Sometimes it feels good to just let your self go, and play. So if you would like to continue this thread, I would be happy to help with anything I could. If you would like me to go away so you can continue it among yourselves that is fine also.

[Cheese_Man]

Speaking of people out having fun doing mock sword fighting....do you guys by any chance have these type of groups out near you? http://ductapewarriors.netfirms.com/index.html

[not-I]

[...]So if you would like to continue this thread, I would be happy to help with anything I could. If you would like me to go away so you can continue it among yourselves that is fine also.
Mr. Fun,

No one wants to you go away. I'm sure i speak for everyone when i say you're welcome to stick around -- perhaps you might also gain some new info from this board.

It just appears that people had gotten bored of this thread before you joined. Most of us are pre-occupied with kendo so that probably also explains the paucity of questions to you. Umm...how bout this one:

Do you have any codified "techniques" and/or "teachers" or "teaching" or does everyone just freak out as the spirit guides them?

[A1DZ]

well personelly I have been hit without any armour and it hurts alot It splintered bone in my arm. So I hope these people do it safley but in all honesty I think its stupid learn swordfighting properly not like this it looks like 10 year olds fighting with tree brancehes to me but that is my opinion.


Dan

[pure fun]

Mr. Fun,
Do you have any codified "techniques" and/or "teachers" or "teaching" or does everyone just freak out as the spirit guides them?
Well I guess a little of both. Yes there are several techniques, and there are teachers. For us the teachers are the ones that cover the rules and the basics (stance, blocking, striking). The rules are explained, examples given if needed. They make sure you are safe. Then the trainers, usually the best fighters, work with you on developing your style using the basic stances, blocks, and strikes. Training is done mostly one on one, it is you and the person showing you what to do. Sparring is done to make sure you are safe, and picking up on what they are showing you. When you show you can be safe to both yourself, and others. Then you are able to others one on one, and if you wish in battle. While you are in combat. Everyone watches to make sure the new people are safe. When new people are thrown in the mix, they are never alone. There is always someone helping them. Basically the way it works is, you are shown the basics. Then as you fight and develop your own style, everyone helps you out with advice and training. Fighters are always giving tips on what works. Everything from blocking to striking to moving to redirecting to working as a team or unit to using the surrounding area to your advantage. As you advance in skill, so does the advice and training. We work on very loose methods of training, seeing two people that fight the same is rare. We are always learning new things.

[DCPan]

Hi all,

I spoke with this guy on the Taiwan Kendo Forum before the site went down.

If you are considering "other" forms of sparring with better equipment than the SCA, you might check these out:

http://www.rsw.com.hk/Products.htm

:D

[Pokie]

looks like they're out to have fun...let them be heheh but hrmmmm the hit on the back..hey...if they do some sort of men kaeshi back slash, they're not far away from actual katana moves...hey..who knows..they might streamline their movements and presto, they have developed...kinda kendo maybe their left foot might be angled a bit but hey, they'll be close

[bossgvr4]

Speaking of people out having fun doing mock sword fighting....do you guys by any chance have these type of groups out near you? http://ductapewarriors.netfirms.com/index.html
BTW my wife and I are signing up for Kendo. Personally I think these people will hurt themselves .......


http://www.dagorhir.com/

They are all over the US and well-organized ....
http://www.dagorhir.com/chapters/index.htm

DaveC

[Kyros Nighle]

the weird thing about chambara is that its creator is a well respected iaido master. abbot i think hes called, and hes damn good at tameshigiri



about the drag guys, well i wouldnt do it, but i think its a great idea, even with all the martial arts, you cant recreate and live the feeling of a medieval war, these guys can, so let them have their fun! :p

[cjcrashoveride]

Hello.

I'm a Shinai fighter out of Texas. I have been Shinai fighting for a good two years now. Our group of fighters are much diffrent than many. We usually don't have light hits. I have come home with bruises on my hands, arms, chest, and even face. I have a friend who has a broken a nose doing this.

As for being disrespectfull to Kendo I don't give a damn. We don't claim to have anything to do with Kendo besides the use of Shinai's.

If anyone wants to come down to Commerce Texas to challenge me I accept anytime. We don't use any armor and we sand down the edges of the Shinai before use is the only rules I have for you. If you want to take part in our group there is more rules but I'm open to fighting anytime. We use special rules for matches as well.

If you have any other questions of the sort then you can simply contact me at cjcrashoveride@hotmail.com and label your subject as Shinai.

[Gargantrithor]

Hello,

I'm the aforementioned friend who received a broken nose while fighting with shinai. Please forgive my friend as he's a little too hyped up and enthusiastic about the whole thing (he's the tough guy type). Our group does use the shinai as the weapon of choice as it gives a little on impact and encounters less resistance when swinging than say a foam sword, but we're slightly different from the other groups. We don't have rules restricting power usage except among newcomers, which is limited to "no baseball swing attacks," and being courteous enough to refrain from inflicting serious bodily harm intentionally. More experienced "members" can use baseball swing attacks. All said, the shinai is ambiguous enough to allow anyone to easily use any style they wish from fencing to being the Jedi (which, however much I disdain, can be effective if done well).

Pain here is a forgone conclusion, so we all try to refrain from hurting each other too much, and we all usually accept whatever we get with a bit of grace and responsibility (though that isn't always the case). I myself have had my right arm and right leg paralyzed (by pain) in two consecutive hits by an opponent of prodigious proportions who was performing whirlwind attacks, so I simply walked off and put myself out of the match without saying anything. The broken nose wasn't much fun either, as I trailed blood from the bastketball court I was fighting on to the sinks at the park restrooms.

It's a good source of exercise, gets you to work on reflexes, but mostly, it's just fun. After all, don't Civil War recreationists do it all for the fun of it too?

[Gargantrithor]

For our equipment we use normal bamboo shinai, and we don't allow much modification to them. We tried duct taping minorly splintered ones, but the shinai ended up not giving much at all and inflicting some serious pain, so we stopped. I don't know how often they oil the shinai exactly, but if not every week, then every few weeks. When I had one of my own, I oiled it weekly. The whole point of our fighting out here is more of a develop your own style at your own expense and pace. Power is sometimes a problem. We've had around 3-4 broken shinai in one sitting I believe.

[kenshi_kr]

It's still weird