Curved shinai

[[Kensei 剣の聖者]]

dont you think its about time there was a curved shinai with a shorter grip and slightly heavier to make kendo more realistic (in regards to the katana) even though there are bokken aroun

[Ralutin]

']dont you think its about time there was a curved shinai with a shorter grip and slightly heavier to make kendo more realistic (in regards to the katana) even though there are bokken aroun


Hi,

I bet you that these curved shinai would be more expensive and a bear to manufacture. Besides, you'd think that more people would've come up with this idea within the last 50+ years that kendo's been around.

Just my two cents...

[Anjin-san]

http://www.e-bogu.com/Akatsuki_Ichikawa_Model_p/aka-ken-shi-akaichikawa--.htm

there ya go

[Snobody]

Weird... Is there any reason someone would use a curved shinai like that? There don't seem to be any benefits of having a curved shinai, besides the fact that it resembles the curve of a katana...
I wonder if those are allowed for shiai, although I don't see why not... The curve probably drops overall length quite noticeably.
Seems kind of pointless overall though.

[Ralutin]

http://www.e-bogu.com/Akatsuki_Ichikawa_Model_p/aka-ken-shi-akaichikawa--.htm

there ya go

Hi,

Well, I'll be damned...$115.00 and three inches shorter than the standard 39". Yeah, you'd definitely be at a disadvantage against some one using a standard shinai. Hmmm...

[[Kensei 剣の聖者]]

it would seem logical that the first shinai to emerge in kendo SHOULD have been curved, simply because they were meant to be copying real katana, and also the grips should be shorter and slightly curved, the shinai is more the sort of a sword a ninja would use.
I doubt they would be too hapy if anyone used those curved shinai in shiai, let alone keiko. And it seems like an odd way to curve a shinai, like the bamboo could snap under pressure too. However it seems like its better for hitting with, because the tip will only come into contact with the opponent

[forbidden]

Sounds too expensive in my opinion.
Every now and then I sand the bumped parts at the end of my shinai, to keep it from crack. I also rotate it 90 degrees once in a while, so the shinai wont take impact on the same side all the time. ( Im sure some of you do the same )

You wouldn't be able to do this with a curved shinai. I am pretty sure it would break pretty fast, if you go keiko alot.

[Neil Gendzwill]

The curve isn't the major thing preventing a shinai from behaving like a sword. It's the width and the weight, neither of which can be changed without seriously compromising safety.

[mystic_kendoka]

i think the curved shinai wld be useless,
1) its shorter
2) its curve makes it even shorter
3) its curve means you would have to swing about 2 inches more to have contact, in comparison to a normal straight shinai
4) difficult to put down (edge down) in seiza
5) phreaking expensive
6) makes rotation impossible, lasts only 1/4 of wat a normal shinai does
7) PS : wouldnt the tsuru be sticking out a lot? and shinais get stuck under the tsuru more?

[moetl]

and what about the technical aspect? i mean, i do not know how bamboo reacts exactly, but i can't believe that the bamboo from a curved shinai bends as bamboo from a straight shinai when hitting a target...

i'm sure you all have seen once a photo taken exaclty at the moment when the shinai hits the men - it's awesome how much the bamboo bends.
i doubt that a curved shinai reacts the same way. it would be more painful, wouldn't it?

[Hyaku]

If it was curved you would have to cut deeper. This would bring the hands down in front up the opponent and would hinder going through.There must be a dozen other reasons but this is the first that comes to mind.

You would have to review everything.

[mystic_kendoka]

it would hurt a LOT because the shape prevents the bamboo slats from sliding past each other, i think tsuki would be a bit awkward too...

[Hyaku]

']dont you think its about time there was a curved shinai with a shorter grip and slightly heavier to make kendo more realistic (in regards to the katana) even though there are bokken aroun

But exactly how realistic do you want to make it. Thinking that way you can forget kendo kikentaichi. You can even do away with cuts to the head. As I said a complete review would be necessary as to just how realistic you would want it to be an exactly how far back you would want to go in budo history.

Prewar kendo had a twisting movement of the back foot rather than going through. There have been so many changes as it is. Japan's tradition is predominantly, "If it works why change it". But this is not the case in Kendo. In fact they are still making it up. For my part I do wish they would just leave it alone for a while.

Without a doubt sword arts have spilit into facets over the years. If you want something different its best to do another facet rather than make one up. They are inexorably linked and certain good attributes do flow over.

[[Kensei 剣の聖者]]

if all sword arts developed from kenjitsu then why did they have to alter the practice swords for Kendo into Shinai

[Bleda]

Bamboo is naturally pretty straight, not curved. To curve bamboo a constant pressure would need to be exerted on the slats leading to fatigue and shorter life spans. Also the main use of the curved sword is sharpness and drawing speed, neither of which matters in kendo. If you were fighting iaikendo(made this up i know its fake lol) where you both stand there and just draw then a curved sword would be better but since you start with the sword out the muscle memory is the same whether you use a curved sword or a straight sword. Its pretty easy to see this, use a bokken and a shinai and strike men, then kote, then do, then tsuki. Its the same motion with either sword the only thing that changes is distances. As to why t he shinai's are longer i bet the explenation is as simple as some guy decided to get a little advantage and pull out a longer shinai then his friend copied and before you knew it everyone was making longer and longer shinais to give themselves the advantage.

[mystic_kendoka]

ur bending theory may not be correct if the bamboo was bent while it was still alive and growing, in which case it would have still be the same strength, which would also explain the HUGE cost of this goddamn thing

[Bleda]

I'm talking from an economically plausible standpoint. The demand for quality shinai already has the prices fairly high requiring everyone to use a curved shinai cut from a special made bamboo plant that can only produce 1 sword would push the cost of each shinai well above the price of bogu most likely. Even then the curved bamboo would not be as strong nor as durable as the straight shinai since when you hit it flexes downwards causing the fibers to stretch even more than a standard straight shinai.

[Hyaku]

Bamboo was thought to be a good material "because" of its flexible properties. These properties outweigh the fact that it is naturally straight.

If you really wanted to nitpick look a shot captured as a shinai strikes. Its curved on impact.

I would have said the purpose for most is more on "Can you hit the guy" rather than "Is it technical enough". Reach the age of fifty and you can spend more time on technicalities. Better still, for more in depth study do iaido or a related art.

But they are making some nice bamboo bokuto now. Why not use one of those? I'm all for it. Promise I won't stike too hard.

[mystic_kendoka]

yea and i'll use my white oak bokuto, i promise i wont strike too hard,

it just DOESNT make sense, no matter how 'softly' you hit, it'll still hurt like hell!

[Bleda]

yea and i'll use my white oak bokuto, i promise i wont strike too hard,

it just DOESNT make sense, no matter how 'softly' you hit, it'll still hurt like hell!
That was kind of his whole point Mystic...

[Anjin-san]

this article:

http://www.auskf.info/mainpages/article2.htm

although long, includes relevant history.

I think my sensei once mentioned to me that the reason the shinai was longer than the real sword was it was too easy to make valid cuts with a shorter weapon, and consequently for sporting purposes it was lengthened.