Indigo or white?

[bodhisattva29]

I just had a question about the color of Keiko-gi. Many of the beginners, well, essentially everyone has indigo cloths on yet; there are two people within the more experienced class that have white keiko-gi. I'm just a beginner and I asked someone about it and they said traditionally white was for beginners. Has anyone else heard this?



I'm not going to go out and purchase anything yet, at least for 10 weeks until the beginner class ends - I don't want to cover up my footwork.



Cheers!

[rainmaker]

Indigo.. I heard white is for woman or Japanese Police department(special department).. I just assumed you are male. Indigo is cool color !!!

[cst]

Depends on the school. Some schools set the white top for beginners. Most schools just stick with the Blue..But now a days there really isnt any real set standard...Just abide by your particular dojo's rules...Look at the whole Korean National team...The are all white, men and women... I would get the white for regular practice...When you are doing all the stretches, etc...and heavy work out...it picks up stain fast from you and the dirt off the ground...When you start wearing the bogu then it will start to turn blue...
White really looks cool because you stand out and is a different look but its a pain to keep clean.

[Catherine]

White tends to be worn only by women in Japan and to be worn by just about everyone in Korea.

Outside of Korea I haven't seen very many men wearing white. It is also rare for women to wear white.

It may be helpful when making your choice to have an understanding of why white was introduced.

My understanding of that history is that during the American occupation of Japan, kendo was banned. Then the Americans realised that they weren't being particularly successful in banning kendo and so they allowed people to practice kendo, but required the kendoka to wear white.

At that stage in Japanese culture, it was shameful to wear white, especially for martial arts practice. I think that the Americans were hoping that the Japanese would not continue practising kendo if they had to wear white.

The Japanese then decided that they would embrace the practice of kendo while wearing white as a show of inner strength.

So, you can pretty much choose what colour hakama and gi you want to wear, but the fact is that most people wear indigo colour.

Catherine

[bodhisattva29]

wow, thanks everyone. Yeah, I think that when I do decide to purchase keiko-gi and hakama, that I will go with Indigo. It would seem really hard to keep anything white clean and presentable!

[Will]

white doesn't fade when you put it in the washer

[Hyaku]

This question came up some time ago.

It isnt the top so much as the bogu you wear. Obviously the aim is to try and look smart at all times. Its a "Uniform". Problem is if you wear a white top with blue himo you end up with a blue crossed line that does not wash out. That's of course you are "so" good you dont even raise up a sweat.

Likewise white himo on an indigo top will turn blue.

I know some choose a different coloured top to the hakama but I still clearly remember a friend/teacher who once turned up with a white top apologizing profusely that his blue ones were in the wash and he was so sorry to be dressed so stupidly.

[ctan]

Hi! A sensei on another forum posted that actually all beginners (by which I think he meant mudansha who have been given permission to wear keikogi and hakama) should wear white keikogi with indigo or black (tetron) hakama. I think this is traditionally what one does in an "old school" dojo; the blue keikogi is something one graduates into after achieving a certain rank or seniority. But, at least at my dojo, everyone wears blue and I think the reason for this is that some people are constrained financially, you know, so it seems unreasonable to require everyone to buy a white keikogi only to have to purchase a blue one down the road. For pragmatic reasons, it seems more reasonable to just let everyone get into the blue keikogi once they are permitted to wear gi/hakama. So, I think the way this issue is resolved is probably dojo-specific and you should ask your sensei which policy applies to your dojo.

Hope this helps!

[Catherine]

Hi Ctan,

I have not heard of that tradition. From what I have seen, beginners wear a lesser quality hakama and gi - eg the tetron gi (of a colour chosen based on the above discussion) or a uniform handed down from a senior kendoka and graduate to a better quality uniform as their kendo improves.

Catherine

[ctan]

Hi, Catherine! Actually, I got that info (old school = white keikogi for beginners) from Mizobe sensei of WestSide Kendo Dojo. I think he said this on the dojo forum somewhere but the forum (http://pub31.ezboard.com/bwestsidekendo) appears to be down at the moment. I'll check back in with the exact thread when it gets back up.

[hamish]

I don't know where you got that one about the occupation forces forcing people to wear white, Catherine! White has always been a symbol of purity in Japan, this didn't change after the war. What references do you have for that? Nothing I've read about the period mentions it, nor any of the sensei I know from that time.

Basically you have 2 options when wearing keiko-gi/hakama - indigo, to use the healing power of the dye to protect you from cuts and scratches, or white, to show purity of spirit.

Many dojo have different rules about coloured keikogi, and it also depends on the area you come from. One of my sensei would always have most of the people in the dojo wear white keiko-gi in summer.

Its probably more from a practical point of view that you go to indigo if you begin with white - you'll be training more often, hence you'll need to wash a white one a lot more often than an indigo one, and they're cheaper, so good for kids who may not stick at it any longer than a year at most. Same goes for the black/blue polyester hakama, cheaper and easier for Mum to take care of. Remember almost all beginners in Japan are kids.

Hamish

[taiwnezboi]

Hi, Catherine! Actually, I got that info (old school = white keikogi for beginners) from Mizobe sensei of WestSide Kendo Dojo. I think he said this on the dojo forum somewhere but the forum (http://pub31.ezboard.com/bwestsidekendo) appears to be down at the moment. I'll check back in with the exact thread when it gets back up.

At our dojang we do the same thing.. white gi w/ very dark blue hakama for beginners.. after about a year when they get to 6 keup they can wear all blue

[Hai_hai]

... Many of the beginners, well, essentially everyone has indigo cloths on yet; there are two people within the more experienced class that have white keiko-gi...

You will be told when you get to wear a uniform. At that point, ask about uniform color, what is acceptable uniform color. About 99.9 percent of the time, you will not get your head chopped off for asking.

[ctan]

Hi, Catherine! This is the follow up as promised. I can't seem to find the old posts I was thinking of on the Westside kendo forum (maybe they did a spring cleaning, maybe I'm just not finding the posts), but here's the info from their dojo website's FAQ anyway:

http://www.westsidekendo.com/


The Kendo uniform consists of the keiko-gi (jacket) and the hakama (skirt like trousers). Beginners should were a white keiko-gi and a dark blue or black hakama.

[DCPan]

Hi everyone,

From what I understand, there is white and unbleached white, which looks more like beige than white.

Some places that I've been too, beginners are encouraged to wear a bleached white top, or have a white stripe on the indigo-gi to indicate that you are not yudansha...for example, see the folks in the corners of the picture here:

http://www.geocities.com/covinakendo/2001_dojo.JPG

While uniform colors / policy will vary from place to place, I was under the impression that wearing all unbleached white was something for shihans or priests or if you have special conditions (i.e. physical disability).

:D

[slidercrank]

Hi, Catherine! Actually, I got that info (old school = white keikogi for beginners) from Mizobe sensei of WestSide Kendo Dojo. I think he said this on the dojo forum somewhere but the forum (http://pub31.ezboard.com/bwestsidekendo) appears to be down at the moment. I'll check back in with the exact thread when it gets back up.
I remember that thread, but I think he said shiro musashi gi for beginners, not white.

[ctan]

Hi, Slidercrank! Ah, that could be it; maybe I remembered wrongly. The Westside kendo dojo webpage, however, does say "white" though (see my post above). Perhaps he means that either of those two options (i.e., white or shiro musashi; basically, not indigo) are fine for beginners.


In any case, this does seem like a dojo-specific issue (whether beginners are allowed to wear indigo or not), so I think it's best if someone is not sure to just ask the sensei. I mean, since one is attempting to be respectful and to conform to dojo norms, this is definitely a legitimate question to ask.

[Sithlord]

High ranking senei's also wear white......

[Catherine]

Hi Hamish,

Thanks for the feedback - I was told the story about the occupation forces in Japan forcing kendoka to wear white by my early teachers.

I will ask them where they heard about it.

Catherine

[Mr.Tvola]

High ranking senei's also wear white......

Yep, that is what I have seen too.

[Devlar]

My Sensei gave me his old (older than I am, so roughly 25 year old) Hakama and Keikogi, both white, the keikogi being unbleached. Anyway I'm leaving the country fairly soon, moving to the Netherlands for at least the next 4 years, will this cause me any problems? since I'd prefer not to have to buy any new ones.

[kanyil]

My sempais told me that wearing white was meant to "test/train your heart/soul", and to remind the wearer to do correct kendo.

Some sempais also said that if you wear whites in competitions the shimpans may be a little more demanding on your form.

[kenshin13]

Hmmm...A person at Obukan ( I didn't catch his name) wears a white hakama with a blue keikogi on top. I always thought that was a bit odd...

[Gohan-kun]

At my dojo here in Japan, the sensei-gata usually wear white, but they sometimes come in their indigos (probably due to laundering).

I asked what the difference was between wearing a blue one and wearing a white one, and they told me it didn't matter. If I wanted (2 or 3 months into my kendo training by that time), they said I could get one if I wanted.

Granted, since I see JUST the sensei wearing white at any given time, I would assume that it's just a sensei thing...

But then again, it seems like every dojo does something different, not only from dojo to dojo here in Japan, but from dojo to dojo everywhere else. I will inquire further with my sensei tonight to see what they say.

[Washington]

I believe in our dojo white gi is only worn by people under a certain age (14 ish ?) so that you know you are facing a young person in practice.. well.. not full white.. there's a pattern on it but it's a "white" top...everyone else wears indigo

[paty.]

From what I was told, during the summer months one has the option to wear either white or indigo. Don't remember if there was a specific reason for this.

[Gohan-kun]

Well, I confirmed last night that it officially doesn't matter which color kendoka wear at our dojo, so it doesn't make a difference if they are a sensei or a first-timer.

I wonder where other dojo got their "color standards" from? Can anyone else who is in Japan provide confirmation of these kinds of things in other places? I'm not about to say all dojo are like mine, and it would be stupid to assume such a thing. Also, do dojo in the states and other countries have similar guidelines for wearing white vs. indigo?

[JCooper]

White is for women. At least that is what I was told and only women wear white here.

[bullet08]

anything goes at our dojo. we even had kumdo person wearing kumdo uniform.

[plotty]

I just got my Kendogi around 3 weeks ago. Before getting it, I asked my sempai the white or indigo question. He said, it was more a matter of personal preference, but that when I wear the white keikogi, I should wear it with pride as it is a sign of my Kendo and most importantly a sign of my character. So as my kendo improves, people will know me as the one with the white keikogi (not as special as say neon green or blood red). I guess it's like wearing colourful Do's or Mune.

[Hai_hai]

...I guess it's like wearing colourful Do's or Mune.
Colorful do means you either have a lot of money or are a big show-off.