Exhausted momentum..

[emitbrownne]

Scene : I tari-tari strongly (apologies for terminology) my opponent moves backward, but not to full distance. I seem to be stood there like a Lemon.

Should I push harder??
Should I move back??

I think my problem is due to lack of fitness and the ability to maneuver correctly. (I charge in clumsily)... but I would love to hear your advice.

Thanks in advance,
Paulo

[Cypher]

Hiki-men! That'll teach him

[Hai_hai]

Scene : I tari-tari strongly (apologies for terminology) my opponent moves backward, but not to full distance. I seem to be stood there like a Lemon.

Should I push harder??
Should I move back??

I think my problem is due to lack of fitness and the ability to maneuver correctly. (I charge in clumsily)... but I would love to hear your advice.

Thanks in advance,
Paulo

Tai-atari?

After the push from tai-atari, bring your shinai down to chudan and press the tip of your shinai against his mune or ago. Step back a bit if he doesn't go back far enough. Maintain center. From here, you can either back up slowly into maai or hiki-men.

[Hai_hai]

Tired during bout? Tai-atari... rest... kiai... push... tai-atari... rest... kiai... repeat until shinpan flag you down.

[Halcyon]

Tired during bout? Tai-atari... rest... kiai... push... tai-atari... rest... kiai... repeat until shinpan flag you down.
woah! hang on. taiatari, and any subsequent tsuba-zeriai, is definitely NOT a time to be "resting." if you're up against anyone who knows what they're doing, tsuba-zeriai can be a very risky situation that requires your FULL attention.

if you are tired during a bout, it just means you need to train harder during normal practice. :)

[Hai_hai]

woah! hang on. taiatari, and any subsequent tsuba-zeriai, is definitely NOT a time to be "resting." if you're up against anyone who knows what they're doing, tsuba-zeriai can be a very risky situation that requires your FULL attention.

if you are tired during a bout, it just means you need to train harder during normal practice. :)

Well, no, you shouldn't be resting at tsuba-zeriai but that doesn't mean I haven't seen it.

[ben]

Scene : I tari-tari strongly (apologies for terminology) my opponent moves backward, but not to full distance. I seem to be stood there like a Lemon.

Should I push harder??
Should I move back??

I think my problem is due to lack of fitness and the ability to maneuver correctly. (I charge in clumsily)... but I would love to hear your advice.

Thanks in advance,
Paulo

If you tai-atari into your opponent and s/he moves back as a result, you have actually created an OPENING, so you must use oikomi men, i.e. a follow-up men moving FORWARD. Never move back. This takes training and some fitness but the effect is devastating on your opponent when they realise that you will come at them no matter what.

b

[ECL]

hiki kote or hiki do seem to work for me in this situation

[Akasha]

Hi paul,

as i train with you often, i think i know what you are reffering to,

my humble advice on this situation would be to use hiki-waza, however you must not let the situation go on too long before you attack. you should tai-atari then instantly hiki-waza, with no intent of tsuba-zeriai, if you understand what i mean, if not i will try and articulate in person...

Andy

[D'Artagnan]

Arrrgghh!!!!!


sorry, didn't realise i was logged in as Kim!

doh! above post was by me...

Andy

[emitbrownne]

If you tai-atari into your opponent and s/he moves back as a result, you have actually created an OPENING, so you must use oikomi men, i.e. a follow-up men moving FORWARD. Never move back. This takes training and some fitness but the effect is devastating on your opponent when they realise that you will come at them no matter what.b
Thats fine and when I can .. thats what I do, but what I'm referring to is when your opponent recieves quite strong... moves back but not into a good distance for a cut.... there is often only a gap of a foot or a foot and a half... and I end up stood there gaping like a fish on land....

Thanks for the reply
Paulo

[emitbrownne]

Arrrgghh!!!!!


sorry, didn't realise i was logged in as Kim!

doh! above post was by me...

Andy
what are you doing stalking the forum pretending to be a lady???
Is there something you are not telling us ? :)

[Hai_hai]

Arrrgghh!!!!!


sorry, didn't realise i was logged in as Kim!

doh! above post was by me...

Andy
It takes a lot of balls to admit you have a dual identity as your own girlfriend.

[Hai_hai]

Thats fine and when I can .. thats what I do, but what I'm referring to is when your opponent recieves quite strong... moves back but not into a good distance for a cut.... there is often only a gap of a foot or a foot and a half... and I end up stood there gaping like a fish on land....

Try a hiki sayumen. Strike both sides while going backwards. Step back for the first strike, take a short step back back for the second strike. Then back up. It should be performed quickly like "mega-speed kirikaeshi".

[DCPan]

It takes a lot of balls to admit you have a dual identity as your own girlfriend.

Maybe both he and his girlfriend do kendo and log-on to this forum with the same computer?

My wife and I use the same computer to log on to another forum...she posted as me a few times by mistake.... :D

[Charlie]

Thats fine and when I can .. thats what I do, but what I'm referring to is when your opponent recieves quite strong... moves back but not into a good distance for a cut.... there is often only a gap of a foot or a foot and a half... and I end up stood there gaping like a fish on land....

Thanks for the reply
Paulo

I know what you mean. I would still suggest hiki-waza. Try practicing them from different maai, and to the different areas, i.e., hiki-men, hiki-kote and hiki-do. Of course, there are times, too, when both combatants simply rush into tsuba-zeriai. Certainly, it's better than standing there.

[emitbrownne]

Try a hiki sayumen. Strike both sides while going backwards. Step back for the first strike, take a short step back back for the second strike. Then back up. It should be performed quickly like "mega-speed kirikaeshi".I'll try next training session... thanks.

I think one of my problems when trying to do hiki is that I'm balance more over my front foot rather than my backfoot. This gives me the feeling of falling forward, but makes it difficult to go back sometimes...

I will also experiment with shifting my balance into a 50/50 stance instead of my usual 70/30.

cheers

[Hai_hai]

I'll try next training session... thanks.

I think one of my problems when trying to do hiki is that I'm balance more over my front foot rather than my backfoot. This gives me the feeling of falling forward, but makes it difficult to go back sometimes...
I'm not guaranteeing anything. It's kind of an application of kirikaeshi to ji-geiko/shiai and looks flashy.

[Dave Fowler]

Scene : I tari-tari strongly (apologies for terminology) my opponent moves backward, but not to full distance. I seem to be stood there like a Lemon.

Should I push harder??
Should I move back??

I think my problem is due to lack of fitness and the ability to maneuver correctly. (I charge in clumsily)... but I would love to hear your advice.

Thanks in advance,
Paulo
The biggest reason you don't move someone back is because your not using your hips during the crash. I've gotten students who are quite a bit smaller or lighter than their targets to force their opponents back by using proper technique. Also you must realize as your crashing how your opponent is bracing themselves. If they are setting themselves fairly hard then rather than pushing them back, bounce off of them and hit a men or something in reverse. (though you will rarely get a point for it.) Hope that helps.

[nonamehandle]

Scene : I tari-tari strongly (apologies for terminology) my opponent moves backward, but not to full distance. I seem to be stood there like a Lemon.

Should I push harder??
Should I move back??

I think my problem is due to lack of fitness and the ability to maneuver correctly. (I charge in clumsily)... but I would love to hear your advice.

Thanks in advance,
Paulo


either
immediately move forward into tsuba-zeriari or
immediately move back into proper ma-ai
have zanshin at all times whichever you do,
and you can try any of the techniques that they have been suggested here.
just remember, do not stand in no-kenshi's land
you'll find that all of the suggestions will distill down to these

[taganahan]

bigger opponents tend to push people who are smaller than them. what i do is, either i stop them by falling a bit off to the front or absorbing there push by going backward together with my opponent and going to the side.

[Nishi]

Scene : I tari-tari strongly (apologies for terminology) my opponent moves backward, but not to full distance. I seem to be stood there like a Lemon.

All depending on the distance of course, but, I would cut-men! It would be a small sashi-men of course but if the variables are right, your opponent has moved away (this is a defensive response) then just cut..sounds like a good chance to me!

If your opponent is a little to close for men, I would take a very small step forward, extend my arms slightly and lock tsubas (tsubazareai/sp?/). But make sure you instigate the first attack or you will lose initiative and will be on the recieving end for the next attack.

Above all, I would try everything that fell into the attack! dominate! crush! philosophy :)

[emitbrownne]

If your opponent is a little to close for men, I would take a very small step forward, extend my arms slightly and lock tsubas (tsubazareai/sp?/). But make sure you instigate the first attack or you will lose initiative and will be on the recieving end for the next attack.
Ah.. this is the kind of answer I was looking for. I have done this before however, and people have frowned upon it saying I should Hiki.. not wrestle.

Mind you some of the older Kenshi, have applauded this approach saying it harks back to the days where tai-atari was used for creating openings, and if it was hard then tough.

But I see what you are saying.. constantly look for a cut.

[Nishi]

You can be in tsubazeriai without wrestling. People telling you that you sould Hiki-waza is just crazy, you should certianly do something when the time is right. Alot of people under Godan spend their time developing 'seme' from to'ma'ai or 'issoku' but 'seme' can also (and should) be applied during tsubazeriai as well, this is where your hiki oppurtunity comes from.

When we talk about initiative (sen) in kendo, it isnt always in the form of an action (uchi-komi), you can take the initiative by seme. Displaying strong seme forces the opponents initiative to recede, this creates chances.

I wouldnt step away from an opponent without some kind of contact though, so I always cut or extend and close distance,(in response to your original scenerio.)

[kanyil]

push a little during tsubazeriai, if they move back then follow up with men, if they do not budge (and will likely push back) then bounce off their push and hiki-kote and then men