Katate

[emitbrownne]

Are there any single handed attacks with a naginata?

Coz I'm self taught and practice by way of experimentation I am often left with questions as the results of my actions.

The reason why I ask is that I find a katate Tsuki from either rightside or leftside chudan to be incredibly effective. Its fast, and because you push with your rear hand the tsuki goes to full extension (when you step and rotate through) and it also pulls back to chudan very easily.
If your opponent strikes it you know well in advance of thier attack to step out of thier range and into kamae again.

please correct me if this is wrong, because I do not want a bad habit to form.

Cheers
Paulo

[Nagi David]

some kata of Katori Shinto ryu and Jikishin Kage ryu use one hand strike, but none of them are valid in Atarashii Naginata, as far as I know.

[berghaan]

I believe katate tsuki could get you disqualified in atarashii naginata.
Because the extended length of the naginata makes it easier to break, which would be dangerous.

Please tell me if I am mistaken eh ;)

[mystic_kendoka]

....to be incredibly effective. Its fast, and because you push with your rear hand the tsuki goes to full extension

wouldnt this be highly inaccurate and therefore dangerous?
i do kendo, and i think tsuki is accurate, but the katate tsuki to be considerably harder to do,
and i think this difficulty and inaccuracy increases with the length of your weapon, and since the naginata is about 2 m, it would be double as inaccurate,
especially since u teach yourself,
i guess as long as u dont practise with partners its ok...

[mystic_kendoka]

....to be incredibly effective. Its fast, and because you push with your rear hand the tsuki goes to full extension

wouldnt this be highly inaccurate and therefore dangerous?
i do kendo, and i think tsuki is accurate, but the katate tsuki to be considerably harder to do,
and i think this difficulty and inaccuracy increases with the length of your weapon, and since the naginata is about 2 m, it would be double as inaccurate,
especially since u teach yourself,
i guess as long as u dont practise with partners its ok...

[emitbrownne]

wouldnt this be highly inaccurate and therefore dangerous?
i do kendo, and i think tsuki is accurate, but the katate tsuki to be considerably harder to do,
and i think this difficulty and inaccuracy increases with the length of your weapon, and since the naginata is about 2 m, it would be double as inaccurate,
especially since u teach yourself,
i guess as long as u dont practise with partners its ok...
It seems that the katate tsuki is far more accurate than a two handed... maybe thats just me.
I have practised it on dummies.. walls... posts... and yes opponents. I have only missed once and hit anarea I should not have... and that was because it was deflected hard as it came in.

I'm not bragging or anything like that, I'm here trying to learn...
if it is deemed dangerous/illegal/stoopid then I'll stop... it just seemed to work. :)

[alepto]

Without a "guiding" hand in sparring I would *think* you might loose the fine grain control neccessary to make the adjustments to a rapidly moving target and thence hit "badly". My sensei emphasises the front hand is for control (not power).

Looking at it from another angle, have you done kata #5? Unless you have really strong wrists the ebu strike to your one-handed naginata is going to put you at a severe disadvantage.

[xvikingx]

Have you ever harai-ed a tsuki? With two hands the naginata flys off to the side; I imagine katate waza would not only be weak but hard to control. The nice thing about the naginata is you don't have to worry about reach.... unless your footwork is bad. STUDY STUDY STUDY
Besides when you finish a tsuki properly your back hand should be right in front of your "plumbing".

[emitbrownne]

Without a "guiding" hand in sparring I would *think* you might loose the fine grain control neccessary to make the adjustments to a rapidly moving target and thence hit "badly". My sensei emphasises the front hand is for control (not power).

Looking at it from another angle, have you done kata #5? Unless you have really strong wrists the ebu strike to your one-handed naginata is going to put you at a severe disadvantage.
No Kata.. no Teacher... its quite sad really.

I use the back hand for power, just as you would use the lower hand for power with a shinai.
On the Katate I use the back hand to extend the extra distance.

[mystic_kendoka]

what is your purpose in studying naginata?

self-defence (in which case the unsafer for your opponent the better)
hobby/entertainment (nothing matters as long as its fun)
sport (as long as it works for you)

[emitbrownne]

what is your purpose in studying naginata?

self-defence (in which case the unsafer for your opponent the better)
hobby/entertainment (nothing matters as long as its fun)
sport (as long as it works for you)

To try and improve, with the limited resources that are available to me.

[emitbrownne]

what is your purpose in studying naginata?

self-defence (in which case the unsafer for your opponent the better)
hobby/entertainment (nothing matters as long as its fun)
sport (as long as it works for you)Why do you ask?

[mystic_kendoka]

just curious, by improve do you mean to improve yourself?

i do kendo, and i 'try and improve' but my PURPOSE is as a sport and hobby,

[emitbrownne]

Any and all activities improve oneself... but I'm referring to becoming better at weilding a Naginata.

[mystic_kendoka]

but you're not answering my question, you are saying 'you are doing naginata do be better at it' what i mean to ask is, why do you want to be better at it? common interest/curiosity, sport, leisure, self-defence?

[Musha]

I did Nito vs Naginata with Emit last time I went to his Dojyo and I ashore you he is good. He did a Tsuki on me that was great even if he said he thought he had done it too hard.

I am interested in Nito because there are things in Kendo that I am trying to see and when I do Nito. That to me is much more fluid than normal kendo I can understand some things about Chudan, hip control and ashisabaki.

Musashi says that you should try and understand all martial arts and I am coming to seeing what he means. I was trying to remember Jou-do this morning and it is strange how much Japanese martial arts are alike!.

Just my 2 pence :wink:.

[mystic_kendoka]

nito vs naginata???? isnt the naginata hard enough to deal with in itto kendo ryu? i dont see how u cld counter a naginata strike with only one hand..!?!

[Musha]

It should! be easier mystic for an experienced Nito fencer any way. You see you deal with the Naginata with the small shoto and hit men with the Daito :wink:.

[mystic_kendoka]

still... if you have a small shoto and ur trying to move a 2mm, 2 handed stick out the way, i dont see how that would work...

[emitbrownne]

It should! be easier mystic for an experienced Nito fencer any way. You see you deal with the Naginata with the small shoto and hit men with the Daito :wink:.The short sword doesnt really tangle up a naginata the same way that a long sword does. or in the same way that the short sword would affect someone with just a longsword.

[emitbrownne]

He did a Tsuki on me that was great even if he said he thought he had done it too hard.
Too hard???

hmmm I'll practice more... please come around to our dojo and I'll try different strength tsuki's on you whilst you try and hit me ;)

[Mr.Tvola]

Some picture of Nito vs Naginata :-) as seen at the EKC 2001

http://www.kendofotky.wz.cz/obr5.jpg

It was fun to watch ;)

[Musha]

I said that you said it was too hard I thought it was pretty good. I am so used to all the comfort the Bougu gives you it is good to actually feel things a little hehe :).

I have a job next week that starts nights so I will try and go to your Dojyo until I can go back to my own :wink:. I went to a Joudo seminar today that was fun and some one had some Niten ichi ryu bokken I didn't get to fence with him though :(. I'll bring down my Bokken and show you if you like. I like the SWOOOSH! that Niten ichi ryu bokken make if you swing them a certain way :D.

But talking about naginata again. One of our members that seems to have started going to your dojyo said he was buying a naginata. I think some one is going to have to open a North West club soon! :D.

[Jakob Ryngen]

Katate tsuki is a valid strike if correctly done. If you have not been taught the technique you should not do it, however. If you score you are a hero - but if you miss you are a fool. :)

[emitbrownne]

Katate tsuki is a valid strike if correctly done. If you have not been taught the technique you should not do it, however. If you score you are a hero - but if you miss you are a fool. :)cheers for bringing the thread back on tracks.. and thanks for the reply.

[berghaan]

:confused2
Hi again,

I remember a tai kai in belgium where someone got a warning for trying it.
Since I dont have any other reference I am wondering where one could find the answer to questions like these.
Email to the INF?

Did they mention it at the shinpan course?

cya,

[Jakob Ryngen]

Who gave the warning? Was it a japanese shinpan? Katate tsuki exists in Tendo Ryu and the technique was used (and scored with) by a highranking naginata-player during an isshu shiai match in Japan last year. Missing with it might call for a warning, though.

[Tenjo]

Intresting....?