The Rabbits Thread

[D'Artagnan]

I have heard of two schools of thought as far as cross-training goes. One is based upon Musashi's philosphy that one should study all things available with hope to improve the 'Big Picture', whilst the the other is based around the the old proverb 'he who chases two rabbits (or hares), catches neither'.

So what's your opinion?? Is the pursuit of other martial arts beneficial to kendo, or is it an impediment??

Please note that i am not using this thread to seek guidance from all of the hachikyu-sensei that use this forum, but i am generally intersted in the opinion of others and wish to cultivate conversation...

[Wout]

hmmm, I first thought voting for the second, cuz It's hard learning the right posture etc. for kendo alone and learning something else at the same time could be confusing.
But then I thought the first sentence had the greater value, maybe it's true that it could be hard learning two things at a time and distracts you from kendo, and maybe you could be a better kendoka when all you did was kendo.
But if you are gonna ignore everything that has got no connection to kendo, you will not know a lot at the end of the day. Not that I think it is compulsory to learn another art, but renouncing everything isn't kendo because it isn't kendo seems a bit smallminded. Actually I think I have more a problem with how extreme the idea is put then with the idea itself. Maybe learning 10 or even 3 martial arts a the time would be not beneficial cuz they are too different.

[Hai_hai]

I have heard of two schools of thought as far as cross-training goes. One is based upon Musashi's philosphy that one should study all things available with hope to improve the 'Big Picture', whilst the the other is based around the the old proverb 'he who chases two rabbits (or hares), catches neither'.

So what's your opinion?? Is the pursuit of other martial arts beneficial to kendo, or is it an impediment??

Please note that i am not using this thread to seek guidance from all of the hachikyu-sensei that use this forum, but i am generally intersted in the opinion of others and wish to cultivate conversation...

First, don't ever make fun of my rank again. EVER!

Second, it is only beneficial if you want to learn more than one martial art.

[LNGUYEN]

Oh Men, I am one of Hachikyu-Sensei, so I can't say anything. Good luck on your journey to find the meaning of your life.

[Sentunim]

Well, it's good to do more than one thing, but trying to combine them into eachother, like a hand to hand style into kendo or vice versa, would be a bad idea.

I guess doing various things would increase stamina aswell.

[Anime12478]

Doing another martial art at the same time can be benificial or harmful, depending on who you are. I am pretty sure that a good number of people will be able to tell the difference between the arts (as long as you aren't doing anything like Tang Soo Do and Tae Kwon Do at the same time). You can also become quite good at both of them if you are willing to put time into each art. The problem I would see is that most people may not have the time to practice two arts outside of class to get to good statuses. Naturally, if you like something, you would want to become as good at it as you can be, and you would have to put double the time for two arts, which may be detremental to either art depending on what you prefer.

[Masahiro]

. .. ...Perhaps it would be beneficial to master one art, and then move on to study another art. Yet I ask all of you this, how long does it take to master one art? Perhaps a life time, perhaps never. One who wishes to study kendo should first study his/her own heart. And in that sense, a swordsman knows nothing else but his sword/heart.

[aru-ma]

As far as cross training goes, I don't see the harm in that, in fact I think it's better, one person can specialize in a certain field but it's foolish to only know one thing and nothing else, so I prefer what Musashi said.

[mathiasb]

An interesting point on crosstraining is in this thread: How's your ki? (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466&page=1&pp=15) where people seems to get great benefits from training aikido and taichi next to kendo.

[mingshi]

A lot of friends of mine play the piano AND violin (and/or other musical instruments) at grade 7-8.

It's like the same piece of music played with different instruments. I won't say piano practice is benefitial towards violin or vice versa. Maybe it's also like solo or duet/trio, depending on personal preferences perhaps?

[Charlie]

I think it's good to broaden out in one genre to get a more complete experience of swordsmanship, but take your time. Don't rush to start kendo and iai all at the same time.

That said, I think the "compleat kenshi" has three avenues to develop: shinai kendo, kendo no kata, and setei gata iaido. Of course, if you get the chance to do a deeper study of iai or kenjutsu, you should, but these three are plenty enough to work on, methinks. I believe this is also advocated by the ZNKR, this three-pronged approach.

I myself do more than one martial art but kendo is my main thing. The hand-to-hand stuff I do (kickboxing/judo/mixed martial arts) just to have some self-defense skills and to keep healthy, I am by no means seeking to become a master of it.

[not-I]

The two poll options form a kind of paradox. I would vote for both if i could. Obviously, too much dabbling in various arts dissipates concentration and the possibility of progress in any given one. But fanatically devoting onself only to one without even considering the possible benefits and advantages of others can lead to close-mindedness and dogmatism, which is detrimental to any practice.

I see nothing fundamentally wrong with cross-training, especially if they are complimentary (e.g. kendo & iaido) and as long as one is able to integrate the principles of various forms and understand and practice them as a coherent whole. The primary question is one of decision and commitment whilst retaining an open mind. In this connection, i like this quote from the Hagakure:
"It is bad one one thing becomes two. One should not look for anything else in the way of the samurai. It is the same for anything else that is called a way. If one understands things in this manner, he should be able to hear about all ways and be more and more in accord with his own."

[Bleda]

At our dojo we use a three-pronged approach toward the learning of budo. We use naginata, MJER iaijutsu, and kendo as our tools of learning and I have found that my kendo training and my iai training are mutually beneficial, the naginata is a bit different but it is not detrimental to my study of kendo or iai.

[Shazzanzzz]

I think it depends on people. Some people get really mixed up and confused if they study different things at the same time, some people don't. I think eventually, it is very beneficial to do things from a different point of view or at least learn about them. I mean, the more different things you know, the more strength you can aquire and eliminate the weaknesses.

[mathiasb]

I do think that it can be beneficial to do different kinds of Martial arts.
Especially i think that the spiritual/mind/whatyoumightcallit part of it (which is also, in my opinion the most important) can benefit greatly. No-mind/ki and other spiritual concepts is widely represented in some form in most Martial Arts (might i dare to say in most sports as well, at a high level). To see different sides, interpretations and ways of attaining these things i suspect would be very beneficial.:beard:

Where one might get confused is IMHO the technical part of it. Especially you might not want to start out on two different MA's at the same time. It might be a good idea to get the basics right before trying to complement.:confused2

[D'Artagnan]

well that is interesting...

so, how many of the 78% that opted for the first sentance, also believe that if you wish to fence in jyodan or do nito EVERYTHING must be done in jyodan or nito for it to be successful??

just a thought...

[JSchmidt]

Didnt select either of them, as it all depends on why and how you are doing kendo. I'm certainly not pretending to be (or become) a swordsman. I'm doing it because it's fun and it's a challenge. That I get some understanding of swordsmanship and the various other 'side-effects' from kendo, is a welcome bonus, but certainly not the main aim.
Remember that we are polishing our minds and bodies through the sword, not for the sword.
I practice 3-4 times per week and couldnt possibly fit in another MA. If I had the time, I would probably both do iaido and kyudo, but I don't want to sacrifice my kendo, which I feel I would be doing, if I only practiced 1-2 times per week.
As for jodan/nito, again it depends on why you are doing it. I practice both chudan and jodan and while, ideally, I should 'pick one', my understanding of kendo has improved greatly by doing jodan. Your milage may vary, however...but still, if I wanted to become a jodan-ninja, I should only do jodan.

Jakob

[Bushidog]

I voted for the first option.
In our dojo we practise a lot of crossover...
We practise Japanese swordsmenship as well as Chinese swordsmenship.
We use a Chinese sword on Japanese techniques and a katana for Chinese techniques. We practise kendo techniques with a katana or a jo and so on...
I agree when all becomes a little blurred as far as the original technique, but it does make you a swordsmen who can handle different weapons and is not limited to one style/technique.
The view of my sensei is not to learn sepparate styles but to "create" allround martial swordsmen. On hand hand I regret not to know a lot on the traditional Iaido styles, but on the other hand I know I am not limited in my swordsmenship. That is what I tell my own students as well. If you want to learn real Iaido and want to got into all the little details of, let's say Seitei, on how a foot is placed or where your little pinky should be, don't practise at my or my sensei's school. If you want to know how to handle a katana or broadsword effectively in combat, you might want to consider my sensei or my dojo.
Our vision is not detail but effectiveness. Therefor you need to be an allrounder and used the best of all styles.

[hyuna]

I think the question is: what is the rabbit?

If the rabbit is "kendo," how can you learn kendo by studying aikido or whatever other art? If nothing else, the time you spend doing the other thing is time you are not spending practicing kendo technique.

But if the rabbit is "fighting," does someone truly know how to fight by only learning how to use 1 form of 1 type of weapon in 1 particular kind of circumstance? You have to study fighting in general to be a good fighter in general. So in this case, studying different arts is not following two different rabbits.

I think pursuing other arts and other things are necessary to make you into a well-rounded person. That is what well-rounded means, after all. I think that it is an impediment to developing kendo technique, other than helping your physical development and that sort of thing. But I think there is a larger possibility: maybe becoming a more well rounded person helps you become a better kendoka and maybe that is more important to kendo than having stellar technique. Or, maybe not.

So I agree with both answers, and I disagree with both answers...