Need some help!

[Serenity]

Hi everyone! :cry:

I have a very serious problem and I need your help (desperately). Today I was so beaten up that I almost started crying during jigeiko. :dead: The thing is we have had a practise with our “neighbour” kendo club. Everything was going OK; I didn’t have any problems until the last round of jigeiko (with another newbi :robot: ; I do kendo since February); his men strikes where so powerful that I saw stars and heard the birds singing when I got hit. :ko: His strikes where so painful that I still have a very bed headache. (His strikes where so powerful, that when I was hit, I lost the balance. I think he didn’t use the tenouchi, but he denied it.) Not to mention, what happened, when he had missed the men and he hit my neck. Once I got hit in my elbow (it’s turning black, blue, grey and read :hurt: ).

The jigeiko lasted a whole century and there was no end; I was so badly beaten up I was physical and psychological at the end. I just wanted to throe the shiani away and run. But I didn’t. And now I lost all my motivation (now I know, why a lot of people leave kendo after getting the club bogu.) :cry:

Also I never head any complains (except some light headaces and some weals, but non of these can compare to what happened today) I know kendo is a very harsh sport…

And now I am asking myself if this is kendo? :confused: I think it’s not. The power is not decisive (but the speed and the spirit are), am I right? Is the point of kendo to hit as much you can? I thought kendo was one of the spiritual martial arts, but see now that I did misunderstood the concept of kendo. :angry:

Serenity :dead:

P.S. After the practise I and the sempais had a little conversation; they only shaked their heads and they told me that this is not the right way. Tomorrow we will have a little conversation about today’s practise, lets see what my sensei says.

[Old Warrior]

One need not be a Kendo expert to reply to this one. First, if someone hits too hard more than once - stop and refuse to continue. Period, end of story, don't pass Go, don't wait to collect $200.

Now, if you want lessons on how to defend yourself, outside the rules of Kendo, wait till they reinstate PM's - I am sure board members will be more than pleased to tell you 20+ ways to hurt someone, "by accident".

If you are not smart enough to quit and walk away or if you refuse to bend the rules to defend yourself - take up knitting. Kendo builds self assertion and self confidence, but you have to be smart enough to know when you are at risk of imminent injury (by a jerk) and then you must be further, smart enough, to know if you can (or want) put your opponent in his/her place. I for one would "never quit", but I am 6' tall and over 200lbs and have absolutely no compunction of fending off a bully by striking do to the elbow, stepping on his foot as our bodies crash, or accidently missing a tsuki.

Nevertheless, someone once fractured my thumb, forcing me to stop and I wound up in the emergency room. The bottom line is to know yourself and be smart. You will get better (if you persist) and there will be another day. Lastly, "revenge is a dish that is best served cold".

[Kaoru]

Hi Serenity-san!

I'm sorry that happened to you. It really sounds like that one student needs to learn control. How he managed to hit your neck is amazing to me, since if he was doing a straight men-uchi, the cut would have come down from above, NOT the side. From what I understand(And I'm not in bogu just yet, so my word isn't worth a lot.). from reading here other's stories, a person should not be clubbing you like that so hard. It's rude to hit a person too hard, and yes, that sounded to me, like he was hitting too hard, to answer your question. I think he should listen to what you had to say. He's new too, so he has a LOT to learn, and control is one thing he obviosly needs much work on. I DO know from practicing with motodachi, the cut should be strong, but not so strong that you actually hurt them so much. Yes, you can get bruises, but I can't believe he hit you so hard on your elbow like that. What does he think he is doing?? Of course, one can miss and maybe hit the elbow I imagine, but to hit THAT hard, is unexcusable. Oh, and his men cuts ought not to be so hard they make a person lose their balance, I know. My sensei would stop anyone who did that.

Please don't be afraid to continue. Learn to show no emotion and that will unnerve him. Some people think it is having power to have nearly made you cry. Don't let them do that to you. :) Ask your sempai and sensei for suggestions on how to deal with a person like that. I know it seems scary, but you can do it. I know it. You have such a positive, and sweet attitude so let that work for you, not against you. So, don't be afraid to attack head on.

What I don't understand is how he could deny it. He should be listening and taking comments as learning tools and be humble.

I also am not sure what you mean exactly... what is not the right way, that your sempai said? :comfused:

Anyway, I hope it all works out, I am sure it will. Don't worry. :)

Kaoru

[Andoru]

Serenity - when you face someone who cuts without tenouchi, lift up your men when a men cut is coming your way so that the shinai lands on the mengane. Are you much shorter than him by the way? It is also possible that the shinai landed on the back part of the men - make sure you that you don't look down and expose that part even more.

With kote cuts....it helps if you're wearing a wrist band. Doh - can't be helped.

Having said that, theoretically speaking, I reckon you should try oji waza (nuki/suriage/kaeshi) on him. If the cuts don't land, then you won't get hurt. :D If that person swings hard (with or without tenouchi) - he's more easily committed and it'd be harder for him to respond to your actions. Don't be frightened - keep checking maai and posture and keep the seme up. Distract him and lure him to cut you and respond accordingly (suck him into your trap) - use his aggression against him (aikido way lol). Break his spirit down bit by bit. More importantly, maintain good kendo attitude. If you think you'll lose, then you have already lost - so think positive!

Don't lose motivation because of this. It'll get better over time - that's how we would naturally react to challenges and improve accordingly (just like muscles, which get stronger the more you challenge them). And like what Neil said, kendo spirit is all about coming to training again and again. So have a good rest and sleep - things will be better in the morning. :)

Hope that helps :)

[Masahiro]

Dear Serenity,


Kendo isn't entirely spiritual. The name of the art implies it is a path/way of the sword. The sword being a physical, dangerous object at that is as real as you. To do "good" kendo, you will need a "good" heart and constant practice and applications of your sword. I believe only then will you be able to attain a state of "serenity" in kendo. As your name suggests >>> "a state of serene". I imagine you are quite familiar with this concept of having an unaffected mind by disturbance. Please reflect/meditate on this concept.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Serenity, there is no excuse for that kind of abuse being inflicted on a new student. At this stage in your career, jigeiko should be about you getting to practice your techniques against a moving opponent, not about you being a target dummy. Please have a polite, private discussion with your sensei about your experience. Write back and let us know how it went.

In the meantime, please refuse jigeiko with that particular fellow. It is your right to refuse jigeiko with people whom you feel are abusive or harmful to your kendo.

[GBN]

Hi Serenity,

Sorry to hear about your bad experience. First off, don't take a day off. Make yourself show up no matter what next practice. Even if you just watch from the sidelines. Like Neil said, don't practice with this particular lame ass. It's a real shame that some people resort to bullying new students but that is reality. Just don't let the experience get you down. You may not have enough practical experience to fight fire with fire here so just let your sensei's take care of the issue.

Good luck,
Brian

[mystic_kendoka]

Is the point of kendo to hit as much you can? I thought kendo was one of the spiritual martial arts, but see now that I did misunderstood the concept of kendo.
kendo SHOULD be spiritual, but it can be physical and brutal too... the president of USA is supposed to be the most powerful and smartest man in the world... look at Bush... there is always one way out...

[mystic_kendoka]

the last sentence above doesn't make sense.. o well u get the jist of it dont you?

i had a similar situation last lesson, a 2-week-in-bogu-newbie and i had to to jigeiko, he was 20cm taller than me, so kept hitting the back of my men, with the lower part of his shinai, i told him u were supposed to hit with the daitotsubu onto the front of the men, so he had to go backwards when he would hit, he said he would hit me however he can... this pissed me off, but let him off since he IS a newb...

i just reckoned i wouldnt let him hit me, and i started to hit him, whenever i 'scored a point' and went forward for zanshin, he would taiatari/box me in the men gane, with such force that i fell backwards once, after the 2nd time he did this, again i asked him not to, he said, he would do anything to stop me from 'finishing' a point... this time i got really pissed...

what i did was, i went for men, he sticks out his hands, and i did a HUGE hiki kote (jogeburi style, hands at the tip of handle, all the way from the back to the floor...) to say the least, he stopped...

he knew he deserved it too, at the end of the lesson he apologized and avoided looking at me :devious:

[Kaoru]

Serenity-san,

I forgot to say I love your avatar! Kawaiiiii!!! :) Wish I could draw like that. hehehe! I want one too... hehehe! Just need one with glasses on the little kendoka. :D Well, I guess I just wasted space, but the PM's aren't back yet! :( I just wanted to tell you how cute that is!

Well again, I hope you get this all worked out. ;)

Kaoru

[mateo]

Fall six times, rise seven.

That is 'spiritual' advice. To develop one's spirit one must learn to face adversity. Not all spiritual matters are of the peace, love and flowers variety.

The kendoka you faced is that only in name and does not seem understand the spirit of the activity he is involved or the objectives. Avoid him without fearing him if possible in the future. If asked why you are not 'playing', make it clear that it is not because 'Johnny' is strong that you are not pairing up with him, it is because 'Johnny' is a jerk and life is too short. You should mention to your sensei why you will 'cold shoulder' this individual and why. See what he says.

I think there can still be a lesson to be learned despite the fact that it is being taught by neanderthal. No shortage of them around. We have to learn how to deal with them in budo. It is also good to feel 'real' pressure in fighting. Of course, it is more productive when one has more experience.

" I get knocked down but I get up again. Ain't nothing going to keep me down."
Wisdom of the ages but danceable!

[GBN]

what i did was, i went for men, he sticks out his hands, and i did a HUGE hiki kote (jogeburi style, hands at the tip of handle, all the way from the back to the floor...) to say the least, he stopped...

Sad but true. Some people only get the point when you do something like this to them. You did warn him several times however, so in my mind you were justified. Unfortunately for Serenity and others out there, they may not be able to do something like this. In that case, it's better to let sensei sort things out. One annoying trait of bullies is that they will "play nice" with sensei and go back to bullying new people when they switch partners.

Brian

[tantadi]

Serenity: I wouldn't count on sensei/sempai to sort out those things. Some are very aware of bullies and deal with them, but not all. But it is your rightful choice to refuse to train with someone if they are bullying you. If they can't behave, don't interact with them.

[not-I]

Serenity,

There is always at least one ji-geiko session after getting into bogu that will raise some doubt in your mind about kendo. Don't despair, keep practicing. Remember that this guy is a beginner too. Since you talked to your sensei, rest assured that the problem will get ironed out. Seniors do their best to fix the heavy hitters before they get into bogu, but sometimes they slip through. Whether he's a bully, or just someone who just doesn't know any better, i'm sure he will get taught some empathy when he has ji-geiko with a sempai next time.
As a beginner, if you have a choice, always choose seniors for ji-geiko. They have a better understanding of kendo and will push to do your best without being brutal.
As was mentioned, spiritual practice in kendo is firstly about developing a strong spirit to overcome fear, doubt, surprise and confusion. Follow the advice of everyone in this thread, and don't give up.

[mystic_kendoka]

But it is your rightful choice to refuse to train with someone if they are bullying you. If they can't behave, don't interact with them.

that doesnt matter, since it was someone from another dojo, she was just questioning the spirit of kendo..

[mystic_kendoka]

Follow the advice of everyone in this thread, and don't give up.

please do not take my advice, or at some time's u may find urself regretting it...

[Sentunim]

I don't know If I am a unique case here, but, I have always hit softly, and my sempai always tell me to hit harder. This is my sixth month doing kendo. Also, I don't know if you are supposed to do this, but, if I accidently hit someone kind of hard, or if I miss the bogu, I apologize right away.

Actually, I've been hit a couple times, but I'm not in bogu yet. Heh.

[hyuna]

Hi Serenity,

I agree with the others, but I wanted to add one other point.

Someone was giving you a hard time, but you persevered. You wanted to run away, but you did not. Instead of just quitting on the spot when things were hard, you asked for advice instead.

These are all things to be admired and things you can be proud of.

As the others have said, don't practice with this person. You have nothing more to prove to anyone by putting up with their abuse. But at the same time, you can know when practicing with the other people in your club that no matter what they throw at you, it will not affect you because you have already put up with worse!

[Andoru]

Hear hear :)

[Tholon]

Hi

I agree with Hyuna. You stood up against him and you should be proud of that!

I once did Ji-Geiko without Bogu. My counterpart was only supposed to hit Kote or strike the Shinai out of my hands.
But when going up with my Sensei - smack!
A perfect Men! And actually, it didn't hurt that much. And yes, he was very sorry.
I haven't decided if it was a good thing or bad.
The downside is that I just didn't see it coming. Just - smack. There is was.
The good thing was that I actually must have done some Kendo. So that he was triggered to counterattack.

What about hitting the hardhitters even harder? Doesn't it just end up in a hardhitting contest? Any experiences from someone?

[Old Warrior]

"What about hitting the hardhitters even harder? Doesn't it just end up in a hardhitting contest? Any experiences from someone?"

First of all, one needs to know if they have the ability to "hit harder" and maintain a reasonable semblence of doing Kendo. If you don't, this is not an alternative.

In our dojang, if the Master sees any instance of hard hitting he intervenes. Nevertheless, he can't be everywhere so it does happen. For the most part, a hard hit is met with an apology. When I feel my opponent is getting carried away, I will hit back hard - and then apologize profusely, bow an extra 5 degrees, and comment that my hit was bad Kumdo. I have never failed to get the point accross. And the encounter has never accelerated into something unpleasant.

[mystic_kendoka]

hit them SO hard they cant hit back, i prefer hitting their left elbow followed by a right arm pit, and finishing with a sidewards men...

[Andoru]

mystic_kendoka: I disagree. In my view we shouldn't sink that low.

[mystic_kendoka]

i guess anyone who does that wouldnt be allowed to enter a dojo again..

[webjunkie401]

Serenity,

Wow, I found someone who isn't from my club but started at the same time as me. And in bogu, I admire your skill.

As for your particular problems. From my experience from wrestling and judo, there is always someone that gets a kick out of using more force than necessary and likes to watch the other person respond. As people have said, don't stoop to their level, that just justifies their behavior. Nor do you want to be overly responsive as this will encourage them.

Personally I think the best thing to do is to refuse jigeiko (I think I have the spelling right) with this person in the future. It is practice, it is not a match, nor is it a life or death fight. If your partner is simply just beating you up instead of practicing kendo, then stop, and refuse to practice with them any further. If your sensei inquires give your reasons.

As for the psychological aspect. Never let anything get in the way of your spirit. I believe that a true student of the sword, martial arts in general, or pretty much anything is no the one that gets every technique on the first try. The true ones are the ones that get back up and keep trying after being beaten, who refuse to stop practicing no matter what. So as I have become so darned used to doing, just dust yourself off and get back up and keep practicing. Don't let this guy ruin it for you. Gannbatte!

[D'Artagnan]

I would suggest three things...

1). TSUKI!!!!!!!!! serveral times, and don't worry if you have good accuracy or force, just hit!!!

2). Dou/Gyaku Dou, hit this like a cricket player might, as hard as you can, if you miss, oh well...

3). Do what my girlfried(Akasha) did last time somebody tried to beat her up in jigeiko... get to tsubazeriai and knee him square in the nuts!!! he won't do it again...

don't listen to all this 'don't sink to that level' crap, you can't always disrupt practise and refuse jigeiko. Stand up for yourself, hit the bastard back, and tell him why!!!!!

[PhilMcLaughlin]

Hmm, Whilst sometimes giving the bully a taste of their own technique works, if you dont have the skill to do it you are just getting into 'stick hitting in funny clothes sport' & not kendo so I wouldnt reccomend it

i wouldnt reccomend avoiding him either BUT you dont have to accept that kind of treatment

I think you have done the right thing & congratulations on toughing out the practise - THAT was good kendo

If you find yoruself in a similar position again - BLOCK EVERYTHING strongly

block every cut & dont bother trying to attack back - if he complains tell him that as he cant control his cuts you are declining to accept them

whilst as a relatively inexperienced fighter you are expected to attack 99 % of the time, in a situation like this you need to defend yourself so block away

This will have 2 advantages

1) You get to practise blocking (like receiveing kiri kaeashi) but strongly
2) The frustration of the bully not being able to beat you up will ruin his day - not yours & he will be more likely to quit thus protecting other people as well

you can do this any and every time you practise with him & he wont want to fight you so you win on all counts

Keep going (as the other poster said make sure youre head is lifted up) and good luck

cheers

[JSchmidt]

Hmmm I'm more or less with Phil here.
I had similar experience my 2nd time in bogu. This was done by a relativly senior guy and trying to give back was definitly not the right choice. He thrived on upsetting people and get them to play 'his game'. (Yes, he's a nutcase). The best way to deal with it, was to refuse to practice with him.
I saw one of the girls from my dojo do that once..he started on his usual crap and she just went down to sonkyo, stepped backed and bowed..and left him standing there like a lemming.
A few weeks later he went overboard practicing with me, and I did the same and I've never had problems with him again. (Now my kendo is good enough that he doesnt have time to mess around and have to focus on actually practicing kendo, rather than stickfighting).

Jakob

[hyuna]

What about hitting the hardhitters even harder? Doesn't it just end up in a hardhitting contest? Any experiences from someone?

Even though we try to improve ourselves, kendo is a cooperative thing, and in practice we should be doing the right thing to help our partners improve as well. I don't really mean "teaching" exactly--but, for example, when you fight your best against a peer, you make your opponent fight their best as well. You aren't "teaching" exactly but you are making them push themselves, and that will help them improve. In the same way, you can try to help any partner you have.

I think it is important to keep that in mind when faced with a particuarly difficult partner. Trying to be mindful of it helps you improve, because it requires a good deal of concentration to keep the other person in mind when you are under severe attack and a good deal of discipline to control your reaction and not act rashly.

Different people need to be taught by different methods, so one cannot say what the right answer is in every situation.

For example, a hard hitter may simply not know they are hitting hard, or know how not to hit hard, so then they need to be told.

Or a hard hitter may know, but they may not understand that being hit hard is very unpleasant, so they have to be shown.

Or a hard hitter may understand but might be sadistic, so then they have to learn that normal people do not want to associate with sadistic people and that they will be alone forever if they are like that, so you should not practice with them.

Or a hard hitter might be seeking attention, so if you just quit on them, then they will probably just get worse in some way or another. So it is not even really safe to just try stuff out to see what happens because one can inadvertently make things worse.

There are many other possibilities. There is no one right answer, and it is difficult to tell what the situation is with some particular difficult partner. That is why one must get advice from sensei in such situations. Hopefully sensei will have a perspective on what that individual needs in order to improve past being a "hard hitter" (or whatever other difficulty they are creating). So, the point in talking to sensei is not to blame the person, or to get them in trouble, or anything like that. I, personally, don't even think the primary goal of talking to sensei should be to protect oneself. I believe the goal is to help them do their best kendo. When their kendo is good, practice for everyone is improved and it is safer and more productive for everyone, not just you.

At least that is my opinion...

[JHusch]

he started on his usual crap and she just went down to sonkyo, stepped backed and bowed..and left him standing there like a lemming.
A few weeks later he went overboard practicing with me, and I did the same and I've never had problems with him again.
Jakob
Even though I am a n00b to this board and to Kendo in general, all pride and wanting to get even aside. I beleve this is the best way to handle a situation like this. It really would leave more of a impact then beating the person back.
Just my 2 cents.

[taganahan]

woah. hitting someone harder doesn't solve anything. lolz. i remember when i used to hit hard when i was a beginner and my mutodachi told me not to hit hard or else they'll remember you and hit you really hard when you get to wear a bogu.

maybe your opponent doesn't give a good hit. a good hit is considered to be more or less like a snap, to my understanding. so when you notice this guy doesn't have a controlled hit, avoid the hit so that he'll miss big time and you'll get a chance to whack his men.

[Wout]

hi, serenity don't feel sad, most I know are not at all like that. Methinks most kendoka are busy learnin while doing kendo (there are also that teach offcourse), not trying to bully ppl around or trying to hurt ppl. Because you can't train on your own so if ppl get hurt it means one less person to practice with.
I say put that episode behind you and go on learnin kendo. You say he wasn't from your dojo+"P.S. After the practise I and the sempais had a little conversation; they only shaked their heads and they told me that this is not the right way. Tomorrow we will have a little conversation about today’s practise, lets see what my sensei says. " it seems ppl in your dojo felt bad about it and supported you.

btw If you can surpass being psychologicaly beaten up you will be mentally stronger. But it's too bad it went along with a physical beating up, cuz that serves noones purpose.
anyway I always feel bad when missing a target area, not only because I hurt someone, but also because it was a bad strike if I did. except for kote I think kendostrikes are not really supposed to hurt all that much (not permanently, it's offcourse important for them to have impact, the more the better) because the target areas are well protected.

my two cents

[Masahiro]

3). Do what my girlfried(Akasha) did last time somebody tried to beat her up in jigeiko... get to tsubazeriai and knee him square in the nuts!!! he won't do it again...

don't listen to all this 'don't sink to that level' crap, you can't always disrupt practise and refuse jigeiko. Stand up for yourself, hit the bastard back, and tell him why!!!!!
Oh goodness, really D'Artagnan?!? She did that?!? Can you tell me what happened for the rest of the jikeiko with the poor fella? And I agree with you when you say "stand up for yourself".

[D'Artagnan]

Oh Yes, she did that alright...

The guy is a real arse though, who thinks he's a tough guy

As for Akasha's bollockcrush-waza, well it pretty much saw the end of the jigeiko...

[mystic_kendoka]

whats her last name? i'll avoid doing jigeiko with her..

[Akasha]

As I was mentioned thought I'd chip in.

I would like to add that he actually punched (as in hand off shinai) me in the face and elbowed me several times in the face as I tried to cut through. I caught quite a few hiki-elbows and there were tears in my eyes. It was not the first time that this had happened but it was the worst. I'm not sure if he was trying to have a joke or what but I was in a lot of pain. My previous reaction had to just try and carry on in pain and upset and quickly losing enthusiasm.

His tactic of when we got in tsubazeriai was usually a hard shove back where no matter how I tried I nearly fell over. This time as he shoved back I very subtly kneed out and then meeeeeen! The fence ended and I knocked his confidence as a bully and mine shot up, nothing he could do from then on bothered me as I knew it was crap Kendo and I could do better, because I now believed I could, and when my Kendo over-took his no matter what he tried I used ‘good’ (or my best) Kendo to attack his spirit as well as physical attacking.

Now I have no problems and we have beneficial jigeiko and the past is forgotten.

Maybe a knee in the knackers isn’t for you, but I expect the reason he may do this is it is the only way he feels he can ‘beat’ you (wrongly). I honestly believe that if you hold enough spirit for it you can put him in his place and with good Kendo but while your spirit is so low that can’t happen. I needed the knee to get by spirit up in this case – what do you need?

[Marine_Boy]

Very interesting post with very different views of looking at it.

Whilst I don't personally vouch of the low down tactics that has been said, if all other reasonable avenues have been exhausted, kick him in the knackers!

Myself, I don't think I suffer the problem of being bullied. I can take a good beating even if the other person has poor technique, this I learnt from my aikido training.

Nor have I face against a bully myself, so I don't know really how to react to that kind of mental pressure.

However, the advice I can give is to "ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK"! Don't let them have the chance to make an opening in your defence. At the same time engage in psycological warfare. One method I found that sometimes work is to charge into tsubazeriai and either physically or mentally overwhelm your opponent.

Keep your centre and you won't loose!

As to being hit hard all the time, a few thoughts on that. You could as one poster has mentioned, block. However I've been told to take the hits. This I believe would make you a stronger person both spiritually and physically. However, if it is causing actual body damage (one can only take so many hits in one place), take JSchmit's advice, bow to him and leave.

Ps how tall / heavy are you? Even if you are small in statue, loud and spirited kiai would help you hold your ground.

[Tholon]

How has it worked out?
Is the problem solved?
Did you talk to your Sensei?

Please, Serenity, you can't just leave us without telling us the end of the story!

[Serenity]

Long time no see. Do you remember me? It’s me the girl who had the problems with the hard hitter. I never thought writing this replay to my post would be so hard to do; I can’t find the right words to describe how I feel, I don’t know how I should put it, without being disrespectful.

First of all, I would like to apologize, because you had to wait about 3 months for my replay to your posts. OK, I admit I was a little bit lazy (OK, OK, I was too much lazy! Three months, oh gosh, I feel do embarrassed), I didn’t had time, my computer freaked out a few times, etc. I could continue with those excuses, but it would be meaningless, because you all took your precious time to help me. I would like to thank all of you, who wrote down your two cents to help me, encouraged me not to give up and gave me new courage to go one. Your post really helped me through my bad experience. Domo arigato gozaimasu!

When I look back now, I don’t think it was good such a bad experience, because I think everything although bad has something positive. At that moment I was asking myself if I will continue doing kendo or will I quit. There were some more arguments in favour of quitting, but then I followed your advice to talk to my sensei (OK, I talked to his assistant). He gave me a very good advice, which I shell never forget: “Don’t let that people destroy your will to train kendo.” And what said my sensei about my problem? He doesn’t fell sorry, because M-san (my jigeiko partner; aka “hard hitter” -> M-san) was so ruff with me, because he was not holding back. I had to think about his words, because I was surprised about his statement. I was a little bit disappointed about his statement, because I expected consolation. But now I understand what he was trying to tell me. This was not the first and the last hard hitter that I have met. It’s up to me how to deal with them; there are only two possibilities: to refuse jigiko with such person or to have jigeiko. A refusal is not the very best thing to do, because it is not respectful towards your opponent and you cannot learn anything, if you refuse jigeiko. And if I never face a hard hitter, I never will be able to learn how to deal with them.

Those three months gave me the time to think about “The training” and some other things, especially I asked myself, if kendo is really the right sport for me. My post caused a lot of trouble not only me, but also the fellow kendoka. After I posted my problem I didn’t thought about the consequences. After some weeks I got a mail from M-san (how should I put it, we were & are pen-pals and friends); he was totally upset and panic. He told me, that the administrator (Here in Slovenia are only 4 kendo clubs and about 80 kendokas, so we know each another) of their forum found my post on KWF (of course I didn’t tell anyone about my post by that time) and now he would get problems with his sensei. He said me, for sure his sensei would take his bogu and … I felt so sorry for causing him so much trouble. It was not my attention. So I instantly wrote a public excuse on their forum. I apologized to him and his sensei. I wrote him an e-mail where I was apologizing, I wrote him a couple of sms. But he was not very happy about my public excuse, because he didn’t wanted that the incident goes more public that I was already. I realized what I have done. I have exposed his mistake in a forum where everyone can read about it. Now I know it wasn’t a good idea, because I would not be happy, when someone would write about my desperately footwork or creepy suburis etc. (I think I would never forgive that fellow.) But back then, I desperately needed an advice and I didn’t thought about the consequences.

Would you like to know how the situation developed? M-sans sensei laughed about my post (he wasn’t mad about me; but senseis assistant was a little mad about me and my post; I’m so sorry), M-san kept his bogu and I got an invitation from sensei to visit one of their trainings.

M-san and I are still friends; I invited him to write his two cents about this post, but he refused and said there would be no use to write his statement, because the post wouldn’t move on. But I have his permission to tell, what he has told me about our jigeiko.
The funny thing about the jigeiko was, that his brand new shinai (which was quite expensive) beaked. He had a conversation with his sensei, but he wasn’t too strict with him, he was laughing about it.
He is only responsible for his mistakes, but not for mine. He said, that I wasn’t prepared good enough, I agree with him; I didn’t expect that we would have jigeiko, so I was really surprised. I never had jigeiko before that (OK, the jigeiko that I have had with my senpais, wasn’t a real jigeiko, because they were standing still and let me hit them; I like such jigeiko.) And my personal opinion is that it was far too soon for me to have jigeiko, after only four months of training. It come what had to come; a real jigeiko without holding back. I was so socked and afraid. And since then I don’t like jigeiko very much, I’m still very afraid before a jigeiko. But if you fall form a horse it’s the best to stand up, and ride again as soon as possible.
Because M-san trains kendo some time more than I, he said that he should adapt to me.

We talked about this jigeiko a lot, we analyzed our mistakes and apologized to each other (I apologized for this post, and he for my headache and blue elbow) and I think we both have learned from our jigeiko. I’m sure we will never forget it!

As I said there were more arguments in favour of quitting, but I decided to continue. I hope kendo will help me to develop to become a good, strong and more self-confident person. This jigeiko gave me the opportunity to think about what kendo really is. I forgot the fact, that kendo is the inheritance of samurai and that kendo includes their codex bushido. Now I know I have the right to refuse a jigeiko, back than I didn’t know. But I will try not to refuse any jigeiko in the future, because I can learn much from it. I will do my best to lose my fear before jigeikos.

Every time we complain about something by training our sensei say; “Everything is good for kendo .” … even a “hard hitter”, headaches and blue elbows.

Just my two cents. :wink:


Serenity :p

[PhilMcLaughlin]

Hi Serentity

Im really glad that you made it through such a difficult time for you and continue to study

It would seem that you have overcome your problems in a very positive way (no one ever said Kendo is easy)

I think you understand the spirit of kendo and look set to have a stong kendo future

well done & good luck with your further training

regards

Phil..

[not-I]

Hi Serenity,

since your "disappearance" i think a lot of us assumed you had turned in your bogu and retired your shinai, like so many people that bow out somewhere along the difficult way of the sword. It's good to hear that you're sticking with it.

In many ways, the way we do kendo is a reflection of how we live your lives. We all make mistakes and have bad experiences. The trick is to learn from them and then to just let them go as we continue along the path.

Ji-geiko is the heart of kendo. Just keep doing it and your fear will eventually subside. And, as someone remarked, aspire to putting your screen-name into practice...serenity.

It is said that the four poisons of kendo are fear, doubt, surprise and confusion. We all experience them to various degrees, but they can be gradually overcome by learning to be more calm and self-contained and less self-centered and emotional. It's a struggle, but no one ever said kendo (or life) was easy.

Keep on keeping on. [rei]

[moetl]

hi serenity,

glad you're back and to hear that you sorted out this problem. it's good that you two are still friends. yeah, kendo can be very harsh sometimes but i think one just needs to get used to this harshness. so, go! go! serenity! :smiley:

[Tholon]

Serenity - welcome back!

[Atama]

[color=black]His tactic of when we got in tsubazeriai was usually a hard shove back where no matter how I tried I nearly fell over. This time as he shoved back I very subtly kneed out and then meeeeeen! The fence ended and I knocked his confidence as a bully and mine shot up, nothing he could do from then on bothered me as I knew it was crap Kendo and I could do better, because I now believed I could, and when my Kendo over-took his no matter what he tried I used ‘good’ (or my best) Kendo to attack his spirit as well as physical attacking.

Now I have no problems and we have beneficial jigeiko and the past is forgotten.

Maybe a knee in the knackers isn’t for you, but I expect the reason he may do this is it is the only way he feels he can ‘beat’ you (wrongly). I honestly believe that if you hold enough spirit for it you can put him in his place and with good Kendo but while your spirit is so low that can’t happen. I needed the knee to get by spirit up in this case – what do you need?

Nice one Akasha ...I'm guessing that I know exactly who your talking about as I've been on the end of a few brutal hits by the same big ape myself ....next time your fencing him give him a crack in the nut from me. :rolleyes:

[Wout]

Nice one Akasha ...I'm guessing that I know exactly who your talking about as I've been on the end of a few brutal hits by the same big ape myself ....next time your fencing him give him a crack in the nut from me. :rolleyes:

nice????? that's awfull!!!!! actually this whole post makes me wonder how ppl see me actually.

[Serenity]

It’s nice to be back again after such a long time. :p Domo arigato, for the kindly support. It’s a good feeling to see, that I have some friend here, who help me with their wise advices. It’s so nice to “read” from you guys, Not-I and Moetl. :D

Please help me in the future with your wise advices, so I can become a good person and kendoka. :cheeky:

Serenity :emb:

[bluerecords]

hi serenity,
this is bluerecords

concerning your 'beaten up' thread, i recommend your comming to croatian kendo seminar at the weekend around 19th november 2004 in zagreb.
i will gladly have training with you and will try to give you some advices there.

however, feel free to contact me

cya

[rainmaker]

It’s nice to be back again after such a long time. :p Domo arigato, for the kindly support. It’s a good feeling to see, that I have some friend here, who help me with their wise advices. It’s so nice to “read” from you guys, Not-I and Moetl. :D

Please help me in the future with your wise advices, so I can become a good person and kendoka. :cheeky:

Serenity :emb:
Hey Serenity,

How are you doing thesedays ? It has been few months since you have started. I was wondering how you are doing in jikeigo..

[Serenity]

Hey Serenity, How are you doing thesedays? It has been few months since you have started. I was wondering how you are doing in jikeigo..I get kicked every time, but I’m not giving up! :devious: I’m the only newbie around,... But so far, so good. :cheerful: … those days I hit them back (if I can). :D I’m a little bit more confident, before going in jigeiko, but I’m still a little bit afraid of it. :nervous: I’m trying to do my best. :silly: I have come to the following conclusion: The more jigeikos I have, more experience I gather and this is the ONLY to lose my fear before it. :D

Thanks for asking Rainmaker-san! :p

Serenity :emb:

P.S. Serenity won´t give up! :silly:

[rainmaker]

I get kicked every time, but I’m not giving up! :devious: I’m the only newbie around,... But so far, so good. :cheerful: … those days I hit them back (if I can). :D I’m a little bit more confident, before going in jigeiko, but I’m still a little bit afraid of it. :nervous: I’m trying to do my best. :silly: I have come to the following conclusion: The more jigeikos I have, more experience I gather and this is the ONLY to lose my fear before it. :D

Thanks for asking Rainmaker-san! :p

Serenity :emb:

P.S. Serenity won´t give up! :silly:
That is very nice to hear. I just happen to read your thread and I had and still have same experience. When I doing jikeiko with beginners, they just swing hard all the time, so I end up with lot of bruise on my arms and body. When you doing jikeiko and if you oppoent is taller than you, it might be good to lift your chin little bit. But than again, best defense is to offense. Block their Man hit with your Kote or Man... Nice to hear from you and wish you all the best... Don't give up...

[Serenity]

concerning your 'beaten up' thread, i recommend your comming to croatian kendo seminar at the weekend around 19th november 2004 in zagreb.i will gladly have training with you and will try to give you some advices there.however, feel free to contact me.Konnichiwa Bluerecors-san! :cheerful:
(I would address you in another way, if I would know you name, so please excuse me, for being so impolite). :emb:

Nice to meet you! :D I have been at this place quite long, but I didn’t meet any of the Croatian kendokas, but it seems that you know me. Anyway domo arigato gozaimas for your kind offer and invitation. :D Honestly, I was really thinking over to participate at your seminar… Sensei & sempai are coming, I would too, … if I could only come… :cry: I have heard so much about Frank-sensei and the Croatian kendokas, which are damn good and strong… I’m already afraid of you guys… (Kidding). :wink:

Domo arigato once more, for your kind & friendly words. :ditsy:
It was very nice hearing from you. I’m really happy that I finally meet a Croatian kendoka! :cheerful:
I hope we’ll meet someday, from kendoka to kendoka! :emb:

Spela (aka Serenity) ^^`

P.S. Why are Croatian kendokas so rare on KWF? It’s sad! I know more Austrian & other kendokas as you guys…

P.S.S. I would contact you, if I would only know who I’m talking too. I don’t know any of you, except Robert-sensei (from Edo-sans forum).

P.S.S. Sorry, that I have replayed so late. I really didn’t saw your post until today… gomen. :emb:

[Serenity]

Ich bin echt total blöd! (Ich hoffe, es stört Sie nicht, dass ich in Deutsch weiter schreibe. Mein English ist katastrophal, mein Deutsch dagegen, etwas weniger.) Es tut mir ja so unendlich Leid, Frank-sensei!!!!! Ich dachte, Sie wären einer von den kroatischen Kendokas. Erst, als ich meine Antwort auf Ihren Post bereits abgegeben habe, rief ich Ihr Profil auf, in der Hoffnung, zu erfahren, wer mir angeboten hatte, etwas beizubringen. Als ich sah, dass ich Sie verwechselt habe, war es schon zu spät, mein Post zu widerrufen. Ich hab mich ja so geschämt. Ich wäre gerne in ein Mauseloch verkrochen! Ich war hundertprozentig überzeugt, dass ich mit einen kroatischen Kendoka rede; ich habe nicht im Traum gedacht, dass ich die Ehre habe, mit Ihnen zu reden. Wenn ich das gewusst hätte, wäre ich höflicher zu Ihnen gewesen. Ich hoffe, Sie nehmen mir die Verwechslung nicht all zu übel. Ich hoffe, Sie können mir meine Fehler verzeihen. Es tut mir unendlich Leid!

Frank-sensei, ich habe schon so vieles & gutes von Ihnen gehört. Ich weiß gar nicht, wie ich Ihnen, für Ihr groszugiges Angebot, danken soll.
Ich danke Ihnen von ganzen Herzen für Ihre Freundlichkeit und Ihre Bereitschaft mir in meiner Situation zu helfen.
Es hat mich sehr gefreut Sie kennen zu lernen und ich hoffe, dass ich Sie mal auch in Wirklichkeit kennen lerne.

Spela :emb:

P.S. Noch mals… es tut mir ja so Laid. Ich bitte um Vergebung. :emb: