Do you remember the first time?

[David J]

Last night I finally wore full bogu for the first time, and it was every bit as unpleasant as I had expected :D , in part down to forgetting my contact lenses, glasses fully steamed in 2 mins, so viewed the whole keiko through thick fog. (Plus men-dare too stiff, cuts going everywhere, cant tie tenugui well, men-himo came undone, jetlagged anyway....what was I thinking? :confused: )

Two things - did everyone have a horrible experience the first time wearing Men or was it no big deal?

(actually, before you get the wrong idea, it wasnt truly terrible and I'm not fishing for sympathy),

And secondly - a couple of men-cuts made my ears ring/whistle for a few minutes (and they werent Conan-men). Is this normal/common, or should I be concerned?

<rei>

Dave (now half an inch shorter, I'm sure....)

[Matthew Lagden]

Hey Dave,

congrats! in the deep end at last.

And in answer to your question, yeah it was horrible, and it has stayed pretty horrible.

I always have what i think of as my Kendo cold the following day -bunged up nose and itchy eyes.

i wear glasses as you may know, and haven't sorted contact lenses out, and i'm not going to wear Men now until i have got a pair, as it just adds another factor of difficulty which i could live without.

Was it your own Men? I think part of the problem is that the club stuff hasn't been aired properly and often doesn't fit, so you are fighting the Bogu as well as your opponent.

and my ears sing as well - and sometimes i feel faintly concussed. you're bound to, you've just been it over the head by a bamboo stick with considereble force.

fun though wasn't it?

[GMason]

Glad to hear you are now in full bogu.

I must admit the men wasn't my problem when I first started. It was the Kote !!!

I didn't find it that bad with the men on, all the guys went really easy on me as I was the only begginer and everyone else where sandan and above.

The problem I had was wearing really old thin Kote which just didn't cushion at all. I had to start bringing my own padding in with me to stop me getting the customary hugh bruise no my wrist.

Once I got my own Bogu it all stopped though.

Now your in bogu you'll have to get back up to Bolton and have a keiko :p

Gareth Mason
Do Shin Ken Yu Kai
www.doshinkenyukai-kendo.org.uk

[Matthew Lagden]

I have the same problem and was considering padding - i wasn't sure if it was allowed or not.

[KhawMengLee]

Matthew:

Yes, you can. It's allowed.

For the kote you can use a kote protector. Its like a tennis wristband but there is a foam padding attached. You can also use a tennis wristband.

The men has a similar protector but if your men is small or just fits, the protector might not be able to go in. I have seen people use a sponge as a protector as well.

Basically you want something just to give extra padding.

MENG

[GMason]

Matthew

Padding is certainly allowed at the dojo's I practice at, and no one frowned upon it at the Dojo's I practiced at in Japan. The best bet is to check with your sensei (Always the best plan if your unsure).

What I do is keep the padding in my Kote till it is time to put the bogu on, so you aren't wearing any unsightly padding whilst you are doing Kata or warm up. But that is probably just my own vanity.

The padding I wear is a very small shin pad that I have ad cut down and the velcro restiched so it fits perfectly under my Kote and no one can see it. The most impressive Kote padding I've seen is worn by a fifth Dan who lives up my neck of the woods. His forearm looks like something out of the terminator. He has this really massive inch thick shiny pad on the out side of his Kote. No Kote cut is going to get through that padding and cause a bruise.

Sorry if this is a bit of topic but it seemed relevant

[CypherSushi]

My first times in bogu I had this really old men with almost no padding left... I was down right horrible, except the pain the men also moved with every cut so that the chinsupports upper edge started cutting into the "underbelly" of my chin instead of staying in place. Horrible!

I still use the same men, being a poor student and all that, but I have a ordinary mousemat inside the men which both makes the hits a bit softer and keep the men in place.

[Matthew Lagden]

padding inside the Men I have seen and I am going to sort something out, even if i have to improvise for a bit!

Back to the subject of Men, I also find that if i shaved that morning the chin pad rubs the stubble on my chin so that the following day i have a nice red chin!

If i have a slightly longer beard i don't get the problem, only with 'five o clock shadow'

Ill fitting Men are the worst though. one of the ones at our dojo was obivously made for King Kong, and all us newbies hate landing up with it (all the club bogu bags look the same, and are just passed out at the beginning of the session at random, so you never know what you're gonna get....)

[yakov macak]

Claustrophobia, tunnel vision, am I going deaf?? Disoriented because I cant see/hear properly.

Cant remember the pain, but it was a long time ago.

[Kendoboy]

Wow...

you guys make it seem like a terrible experience! I can't wait to get in to bogu. For some reason I think that my kendo will start to improve faster due to "being in the uniform" as someone said before, and also because I feel I can get into the spirit of things easier if I feel like I can't get hurt that bad (have had some misplaced kote and men cuts. Ouch!).

Am I optimistic, enthusiastic, or just in for a VERY rude awakening? you decide.....

[stk]

Apart from the reduced vision/hearing, I didn't have any problems.. except having to relearn all I'd learned so far, of course :D

It was a completely new experience, but certainly not a bad one. I suspect some of the bad experiences listed here can be attributed to poor quality bogu, the first one I used was quite decent. (apart from the kote, which were terrible. I lost no time in getting a kote protector, which made keiko soo much more bearable)

[Matthew Lagden]

I think having a good quality Bogu would solve most of these problems.

On the positive side, i like the narrowing down of my vision and hearing - that distancing effect - it closes the world out and enables me to concentrate solely on the matter in hand, so that i never feel more relaxed than i do after Keiko.

it is a kind of active meditation, which i find very refreshing. i often find in the morning after keiko that i have the solution to problems i have been chewing over, so it has obviously given my unconscious mind space to work.

worth a bit of pain anyday.

[Kuri]

All I remember thinking was HELP!!!!! How do you keep this damn men in place?
I had the ear ringing thing, but as I learnt to tie the himo properly (and tight enough), it slowly dissapeared. I still get the ringing, but that has to do with a jaw joint problem.

[KhawMengLee]

Back to the subject of Men, I also find that if i shaved that morning the chin pad rubs the stubble on my chin so that the following day i have a nice red chin!

It will pass. I used to get that, also the excess salt also makes my chin feel tender and dry later. Moisturizer will help. It doesn't happen now though.

Mat, I also wear glasses but I don't with the men on. It doesn't matter for me cause I don't get effected by my opponent's evil eye as I can't see. heh

On occasion I use my surf sports goggles which are great but I have to coat them with soapy water to demist them or the fog up.

PEACE
MENG

[AlexM]

I was thinking:
"Can't move. Can't breathe. Can't hear. Too heavy. Want out now."

Wanted to go back to no bogu practices ("I practiced 4 months for THIS?"). Then I got used to it and it feels "normal" after a while.

Hardest piece of equipment to put on: Tenugui.

[Hagakure]

Originally posted by AlexM

Hardest piece of equipment to put on: Tenugui.

Actually, I originally learned how to put it on by watching one Sempai who put his on way different than everyone else. It never came off in his face or had the tail out of the men.

My first time in the Men was pretty good. But I felt like a total beginner, my weight was all of balance, and my zanshin got pretty bad the first time. So I relied on kiai.

Good question!

[Kendoboy]

Most people seem to be in agreement that time is all it takes to feel comfortable in the bogu. So how much time?

[KhawMengLee]

about a month for me. Its been about 4 months now and the bogu feels real comfy. Its like a second skin now and you don't really notice it.

[qpuppy]

HAHAHA....
I remember the good old days for first time wearing men.....

"AHhhhh... my ears hurt!!!... Ahhhh... the pain.... Ahhhh... sooo heavy!!!!.... S*** cant breath... oh no... Cant see.. my glasses has fogged up!!!....dame only a single line of vision..."

hehhee.. the funny old days....

Al

[akihiro]

Ah, the first time wearing bougu, especially the men...um I cannot lift up my arms; what happened to 50% of my vision; all these horizontal lines, where is the tracking; say what?!? Then one day, it feels okay.

As for the ears, make sure you create a gap around the ears in the back after you put on the men. You do this by placing your fingers right below where the himo cross at the back of your head and pull away from your head. Try it, your ears will thank you.

[mingshi]

Why don't you guys like being in the Bogu????

I think it's an honour to be promoted into the "Beginners-in-armour" group. It means that, welcome to another stage of Kendo!

Apart from the Men-himo not being tied properly I was pretty excited inside the bogu. "Wow!! This is it!" I'm very aware that I've to get used to it so even with all the smell and tenegui falling off I was very happy that day... mmm...

I always wanted to fight in armour (because it's my GOAL before I start Kendo).
"Hey Jenny, from now on you'd be wearing bogu for every practice."
"Excellent!!!"

[KhawMengLee]

Hey, I love bogu as well...starting to become a collector...heh

I think what did it for me was when I bought my first set. Just the little things like seasoning the men and kote. Or bending the side flaps on the tare.

Not a training will go by where afterwards I wipe clean the inner men and dry everything out.

I think a lot ppl here are just explaining their awkwardness when they first put the men on. I mean it was different trying to do shomen cuts first time because we didn't take into account the size of the men.

Now, everything feels peachy but back then it was just disorientation.


PEACE
MENG

[qpuppy]

heya Mingshi... (just want to explain to you....)

Yeap.... that's right Meng... total agree with you....
I think everyone here loves being in bogu... and yes i think most people will agree with you as well that well all think "Wow!! This is it!.. the real stuff.. fighing with the full bogu on!!!!"... but what everyone he is trying to explain the feeling of having the bogu on for the first time....

So no one here is complaining about wearing bogu!!!.... :)

Double Peace!!!!
Alvin

[David J]

Well said Qpuppy. I was keen to take that step - so much so that I probably did it on the wrong week anyway (ie fatigue and jetlag didnt exactly help, nor a brand new, stiff as a board Men...). But I'm glad that others found it quite an intense experience too. I'm surprised no-one has said they thought of quitting....maybe those people arent now doing Kendo / arent on the forum. I'm sure it must be that way for some - "oww! that hurt! my ears are ringing! f*** this for a hobby!" etc. In a way I'm glad I've bought the bogu - I cant afford to quit now ;)

<rei>

Dave

[Matthew Lagden]

The Tenegui is a pain isn't it? I've been practising at home but i still can't get it tight enough and it comes loose, and /or flops in my eye at critical moments.

I'm picking up contact lenses this week which should solve that problem at least....

I think a lot of people do quit just after they go into Bogu, but bloodymindedness carried me through - and as you say, thats what i started for - to wear armour and fight!

[inner_cent]

I started the bogu, i was introduced with the whole set (not stage by stage). And Bogu is stiff (no problem)..... Ear hurts (I can handle it stilll), glasses fogging up (I'll remember the buy contacts tomorrow !!), but the thing I remember is kote. Everyone in the group are all beginner, we never knew how hard we hit. So we end up Sore head, sore arm-pit, and the worst of all, swell hands. My back of my hand was so swell, the lump is almost the size of the peach ( well, the peach that has been cut into half anyway)..... and one point, one of the girl was in similar situation, and she was crying after that. BUt we all loved it.... but the girl who had swell hand like me, didn';t turn up after that. I heard is because her parent barred her from coming again......

So one point of advise for beginners........ WATCH your STRENGTH !!!!!!! :P

[saki_wooah]

First time i put my bogu on, I was kind of confuse and lost. I couldn't hear anything at all... And after practique my head hurted... oww. Many of the beginners left after that... Never saw them again. I just continued because I found the people very nice with me and my goal was to fight and do ippon with them... :) The best way to continue kendo for a beginner is to have a goal.

[samurai999]

First time for me? Ears were hurting. Sometimes they were rubbing the inside of the men so much that they started to bleed. But, it fit.

A little off topic, but... The first pair of kotes that I had were pretty tight. But me being the rookie that I was back then, thought that this was pretty normal.

The next pair of kotes that I bought (since I wore a hole into both) were nice and my wrists were pretty free to do harai, suriage, etc.

The next men that I got fit me perfectly the first time! I wore it at a tourney the same week. My ears didn't hurt and it was pretty light. (this was one with the titanium mengane)

Tim

[Kendoboy]

Last night I wore bogu for the first time. the whole time I kept realizing just how bad certain aspects of my kendo were, and why everything that my sensei has said is so important. It was like one big AHHHHHH! That's why! I can't even explain the mental/spiritual part that was going on at the same time. All I know is that it is incredible, and I'm hooked.

[nodachi]

My sensei had me wear Kote for the first time today and wow.... it felt really wierd. I am really happy to start slowly adding bogu piece by piece. I love Kendo and after each practice I am enjoying it, but I always leave with this feeling of "wow, I really suck at this, but I will keep at it!" Today was nice because I could say to myself, "wow, I really suck at this, but I am headed in the right direction!"

[ben]

To hear everyone's stories I feel like I should have been scarred for life, but I sincerely can't remember the first time I put on men. Maybe that's my problem...

Er, I think I have a concussion, ::: ) I better go and lie down...

b

[sparc]

I've only been doing Kendo since early February this year and every experience has been great fun.

I can't remember the exact date I got to put the whole bogu on (may be delayed concussion? :D) , but it was a new learning curve. My initial thoughts were "Huh? I can't hear anything... Um, it's rather hot in here... Damn! I've got one hell of an itchy nose!"... Then I got struck on the men. :D

[Neil Gendzwill]

Here's a tip - lightly wet your tenugui before putting it on. It will stay put much easier. After a while you won't need to do it anymore.

As far as having a bad time in bogu - after getting bogu is one of the quitting points for beginners, I find. The whole flavour of practice changes at that point. It gets physically much harder, it's hard to see and breathe, and all these people keep hitting you on the head. Keiko with sensei all of a sudden becomes a different matter - before, you were just hitting him, now theres all this pressure coming at you.

[saki_wooah]

As far as having a bad time in bogu - after getting bogu is one of the quitting points for beginners, I find. The whole flavour of practice changes at that point. It gets physically much harder, it's hard to see and breathe, and all these people keep hitting you on the head. Keiko with sensei all of a sudden becomes a different matter - before, you were just hitting him, now theres all this pressure coming at you.

Hmmm.... Yep...
did anyone had their hakama and gi before wearing bogu? I had it like 7 months after praticing with bogu people. I felt very tired and hot... A little bit when I started wearing bogu...

[Tato]

I think that I did it in the properly usual way, first casual sportwear, then hakama and gi, then bogu, then bruises :D

I got the hakama and the bogu during the summer in Madrid, which is for sure hot (+40 centigrades) but also very dry.

Rei

[nodachi]

I had my hakama and gi from the beginning, but I think it helped. If I started in casual clothes and then went to the Hakama, I think I would feel all clumsy and not be too happy. Starting in the hakama I started awkward, but quickly acclimated to it. Kinda like sink or swim, but the hakama wasn't so hard to get used to as bogu will be.

Maybe I would just rather feel a set back once from the bogu rather than go through two set backs from hakama, and then a second set back from the bogu.

[saki_wooah]

Some ppl say that wearing casual clothes is better at the beginning because you try kendo, and if you don't like it, you can stop so you didn't spend 200$ buying a hakama&gi. Also, your sensei can see your footing and correct your mistakes because it is always easier to see it in normal clothes

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by saki_wooah
Some ppl say that wearing casual clothes is better at the beginning because you try kendo, and if you don't like it, you can stop so you didn't spend 200$ buying a hakama&gi. Also, your sensei can see your footing and correct your mistakes because it is always easier to see it in normal clothes
I agree. We don't order uniforms for our students until after 2 months for those reasons. After 2 months they should be able to figure out if they're committed enough to pay for a uniform or not. Even then we don't require them, especially for students on low budgets and so forth and they're expensive compared to karate-gi or judo-gi.

The shipment usually arrive after the students have been practicing for about 3 months and the best of them are ready to wear bogu. By that time we don't need to see their feet all the time.

[Atama]

My first time in bogu wasn't bad , but i was wearing a beat up old set of bogu with a really heavy steel mengane and the kote were so soft i might as well have been wearing nothing.

I was good fun though I could barely lift my head up and when I got hit, I had to learn everything over cause its so different in bogu, but after a month or so you get the hang of it and invest in your own bogu.




Lisa Williams (Do Shin Ken Yu Kai)

[James R]

The wearing of Men for the first time was'nt too bad, but why does your nose always itch after you have put it on?:confused:

[Atama]

James........I belive that is just sods law

its worse when a bead of sweat is dripping of your nose in a shia match :(

[etherknot]

Originally posted by James R
The wearing of Men for the first time was'nt too bad, but why does your nose always itch after you have put it on?:confused:

No idea. I'm waiting to see someone have a major sneeze while wearing Men though. :)

[KATSUJIN]

my first time.......i only had problem with the vision limitations......and the heat and stuffiness and the unusual feeling of having something clinging and hanging on me .....other than that....i enjoyed it!!!!

[BigG]

during a discussion in the pub after training, we concluded that McDonalds coffee stirers would be ideal to keep in your bogu bag to avoid post-men-himo-tying-itchy-nose-itis.

As far as wearing bogu goes ... patiently waiting, watch this space!!!

[nodachi]

Got to start in bogu today! Super happy me!

Although this stupid cold made it a tad annoying, sniff sniff sniff, but otherwise it felt fine. The lack of vision was not so bad as it seemed from reading peoples comments.

My problem is that whether it be the sizing of the men, or how tight I tied it, my jaw was kinda uncomfortable. I didn't feel comfortable with my mouth closed, but it didn't feel comfortable open, so I was kinda half and half the whole time, but it wasn't so comfortable with my jaw.

Any suggestions?

As for the first practice match, horrible as I expected, since the whole not wanting to be hit and lose part of it made me do crappy waza. Maybe I gotta ignore that whole point thing. Maybe I'll do better off in the end that way.

Any thoughts?

[dLuXpN0i45]

Why yes.. the first time i got my bogu and put everything on.. it took me like 40 min to put all the gear on... and even longer to tie my men onto my head. It seemed as if i was the slowest person on the floor.. while everyone seemed to look foward to hit me. until that day, i had not seen so many smiles behind everyones men as i walked from bowing.
After the experience i had so many places of my body that was numb and sore... i love it.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by nodachi
My problem is that whether it be the sizing of the men, or how tight I tied it, my jaw was kinda uncomfortable. I didn't feel comfortable with my mouth closed, but it didn't feel comfortable open, so I was kinda half and half the whole time, but it wasn't so comfortable with my jaw.
You just have to get used to it. If you can open your jaw it's not too small. If it seems a little big, add padding. Get your sensei or sempai to help you.

As for the first practice match, horrible as I expected, since the whole not wanting to be hit and lose part of it made me do crappy waza. Maybe I gotta ignore that whole point thing. Maybe I'll do better off in the end that way.
Yes, ignore getting hit and ignore trying to "score". At this stage, just try to keep doing what you were doing before you got your bogu. That's tough enough.

[Old Warrior]

Actually, I'm looking forward to wearing the whole set. I have become used to European Fencing attire and don't notice it anymore. But I remember the small mesh on the mask was very vision limiting and it seems as if it will fall off if you move to quickly. The jacket has a mock turtle neck that is stiff and it was also annoying. The Kendo armour seems much easier to wear - but time will tell.

[dLuXpN0i45]

Wow.. European Fencing? I was actually Intrested in doing that, a couple years before i started Kendo.. The Bogu really isn't that bad. It was just a big difference from when i first started out, and then with the bogu on. It felt like a kind of disability because i couldn't move as fast. But you get use to it, and start to love it. I kinda wish that my armor was a bit thicker for all those anxious beginners...:nervous:

[elfboy]

I got into it the first time last night and it was initially a very depressing and hostile experience. I felt like a total novice and even though I knew my kihon was well developed, it just flew right out the window. My body felt klunky and my articulation was shot - swinging the shinai was a very odd experience in bogu. It was hard to judge maai and distance, and hitting men was a little strange. I was visibly freaking out, and I panicked inside. I almost felt like crying out of pure fear and fright. I had no problem getting hit - that was actually nothing more than a weird feeling. Hearing of was kind of difficult. I took a little break and I felt really depressed... like that Kendo was perhaps not for me... but... I had fun. Looking back, I had a hell of a lot of fun. Even when it got real confusing, I never wanted to quit. It's just I'm wondering how long the transistion takes. I had a good talk with everyone afterwards and all those feelings of doubt and uncertainty washed away. But I'm left wondering how much longer the strangeness will last.

I was also wondering what methods people have used to get used to bogu in and out of keiko. I was considering spending one hour in my men just to get used to it (not while walking the streets, of course), or some other method. What would/did you guys do to get used to bogu? I also had a problem with judging distance... probably because I had no peripheral vision, thanks to my men-gane. Ack... there must be a way out of this!

However long it takes, I'm still not gonna get discouraged. Visiting KWF in the days before bogu, I read a few posts where people would post that the one thing to always keep in mind about Kendo is to never quit. I certainly won't. I love Kendo and I always will!

[etherknot]

Well well well...

Last week I had decided to re-acquire the clubs's sune-ate because we have two new naginata students and well, they should really be able to strike my sune. It was nice to be able to hit someone else's sune while I was training. I was thinking, ah yes I'll be able to get them this morning at practice.

But when I walked in to the dojo sensei acosted me:
"So. Do you want to try this 4th set of club bogu?"
"Uh yeah!"
So we tried it on to see if it fit.

And it fit very well.

I went through half the practice in it without the men on. And it wasn't bad. But little things like, not being able to quickly tell where my naginata was endinging up with my chest cause the do was blocking it. I noticed the tare slightly catching on the naginata as I moved up for furiage-* a few times. It wasn't bad.

But then. The part I wasn't so keen about- Putting on the men. I had to borrow a tenugi as I didn't bring any of mine because I didn't know I'd be trying on bogu today. Getting the tenugi on was a rather interesting feat, it looks simple, it is simple but mine just kept slipping off everytime I was dunking my head into the men.
Once that was straightened out sensei began tying up the men himo. Please, not so tight I thought. I was wearing my rimless glasses so one of the lenses started jutting into my cheek. Not too good. But I fixed that. Note: get a new contact lense by next practice.

As for vision in the men, it was actually pretty good! I could see enough through the smallish window and it was going to be alright. My only thing was, the mengane seemed a little blurry cause it was close in my area of vision. No worries, not supposed to be looking at the the mengane anyways.

First I went up against Webb Sensei, our naginata sensei. It wasn't bad. I could pretty well hear most things going on around me and I could see him pretty well. Except, I remembered that we have to look straight on (fellow naginata people understand) so, imagine trying to look out the sides of your men. That's what it was like. Again, not bad but those men flaps definately reduced my head motility.

After that was done I went up against a kendoka and it wasn't too bad. The last one I went up against is when I started to experiance uh... well.
He is bigger, stronger and faster than I am (right now), so I kept getting men hit after men hit... WHUMP! whereas the first two people were pretty decent with their men hits this guy was WHUMP! and trying to plow right through me with a great amount of force.
elfboy, I had a whole reply your thread about judging distances problem cause I'm in the same boat, I just couldn't WHUMP! get my bearings in time WHUMP WHUMP! with this guy. And yes, I felt afterwards exactly that: everything I had learnt had gone zzzzzzzzzip out the window! And: WTF! And... Did someone get the number of that truck that just ran me over? Oh crud he's coming around again! WHUMP!
But I hung in there. And I got more whumpings.
Oy.

I'm SO looking forward to more men-whumpage this week.
WHUMP!

[xvikingx]

Ah yes I recall the frustration of the 1st day in bogu. You think because your in bogu you made progress but while your getting whooped you realize how far you have to go. Personally I loved it. First day in bogu for naginata is far worse (in my opinion) than kendo. For kendo its really just bulky and heavy at first. With naginata you catch your e-bu on your tare and you cant feel the naginata as well so your ha-bu will go upside down sometimes. Plus like most countries besides Japan you use a kendo men instead of a naginata men, so you have a awkward hasso do to the large men-dare. With all said and done though, there is nothing I like more than the calm quiet moments while putting on my bogu, just before getting my @$$ beat around the dojo. :ko:

[etherknot]

Ah yes I recall the frustration of the 1st day in bogu. You think because your in bogu you made progress but while your getting whooped you realize how far you have to go. Personally I loved it. First day in bogu for naginata is far worse (in my opinion) than kendo. For kendo its really just bulky and heavy at first. With naginata you catch your e-bu on your tare and you cant feel the naginata as well so your ha-bu will go upside down sometimes. Plus like most countries besides Japan you use a kendo men instead of a naginata men, so you have a awkward hasso do to the large men-dare. With all said and done though, there is nothing I like more than the calm quiet moments while putting on my bogu, just before getting my @$$ beat around the dojo. :ko:

It's all true! Now I'll have to contend with getting my e-bu stuck in the pleats of my hakama AND tare. I was lucky enough to get kote a while ago and I've been practicing with them on. So far, no upside down ha-bus. :)
Am I to assume that "naginata-men" have the smaller men-dare? If so, are there any online shops that sell em? I thought I was quite observant to point out the hasso problem to someone a few weeks ago: "Just slide your hand up underneath the flap to get to hasso and that will push the thing out of the way". I guess I'll get to find out if it's relatively do-able with the regular sized flaps.

[xvikingx]

It's all true! Now I'll have to contend with getting my e-bu stuck in the pleats of my hakama AND tare. I was lucky enough to get kote a while ago and I've been practicing with them on. So far, no upside down ha-bus. :)
Am I to assume that "naginata-men" have the smaller men-dare? If so, are there any online shops that sell em? I thought I was quite observant to point out the hasso problem to someone a few weeks ago: "Just slide your hand up underneath the flap to get to hasso and that will push the thing out of the way". I guess I'll get to find out if it's relatively do-able with the regular sized flaps.

You'll just have to get used to the tare and hasso problem. It's really queer at first. I just modified my hasso so that it is actually a little bit in front of the men-dare.

Yes, you are correct; naginata men have smaller men-dare (and they tied differently but thats not really relevant). You can buy them from BoguBag.com. There equipment is excellent quality at a great price, especialy the kote. The only problem is, because naginata is even less popular than kendo you not likely to find anything smaller than 4mm stitch outside of Japan. Even in Japan naginata supply is a tough find. So the other option (which works quite well) is to get yourself a nice kendo men and have the tare cut down. Make sure its done by someone who knows how to do it. Back in the states I enquired about cutting down my men-dare at E-bogu and they said that they had sent their guys to Japan for training and that by Oct. they may be able to do such a task.

Hope this is helpful. And good luck with the growth of the Canadian Naginata Renmei. Ganbatte!

[etherknot]

Yes, you are correct; naginata men have smaller men-dare (and they tied differently but thats not really relevant). You can buy them from BoguBag.com. There equipment is excellent quality at a great price, especialy the kote. The only problem is, because naginata is even less popular than kendo you not likely to find anything smaller than 4mm stitch outside of Japan.

Hope this is helpful. And good luck with the growth of the Canadian Naginata Renmei. Ganbatte!

Wow thanks for the heads up! I did hop over to bogubag.com pretty well right after you replied (google, we love thee so). I wonder if they'll break up the price on the set cause $85+Shipping does not seem to be a bad price at all!

[mochi_pig]

It's almost been a year since David J posted this topic.
Today was my first day in bogu. I thought I would write down my experience like David J did.
First, there were four of us who were taught how to put on the bogu, how to carry the men and kote while in a line, how to arrange our men and kote while in seiza, how to take off our men and kote. Then, our sensei lined us up and gave each of us our first men-uchi. And then, the four of us practiced striking each other.
That was just the beginning. Pretty easy. The next hour was much more difficult. We warmed up'ed with the yudansha. Then, started practice. I was doing pretty fine energy-wise for most of the practice. At the end, our sensei had everyone do kakari-geiko. There were 5 lines. Each line had two or three mudansha paired up with one yudansha. Each mudansha did kakari-geiko until the yudansha chose to end it and start with the second person in line. Then, when the sensei blew the whistle, we rotated down one and restarted. Each time, I had spent more time doing kakari-geiko than the guy behind me (who was without bogu) and each time we rotated, I was always the first one. By the end of this drill, I was tired. At this point our sensei lined the four new-bogu-wearing people and had them do ji-geiko. I was tired and very slow. The yudansha could tell but tried to push me and at the same, attacked me while I was moving in slow-motion (not purposely but because I could hardly lift the shinai and move quickly). They also side stepped or stepped back on some of my attacks. We did this for about 4 rotations. Then, we stopped that drill and had to do kirikaeshi. My arms literally felt like lifting a million pounds for every sayuu men-uchi and my lungs felt like I had been running all out for a mile. I think I can speak for all four of us when I say we were very worn out from that.

It was very tiring but rewarding at the same time.
Ima, yasumitai.

[Jearom]

Everytime I put on the Men, I get the same feeling, pain in my ears, a hard time swallowing, sweat in my eyes and an itch on my nose.
My plan is to get a small plastic stick, or something like that, and hide it behind the Tare and use it to scratch myself.

[Fraz]

I'll always remember my first time in armour.

When I started, my club didn't have an organised beginners class so after a quick walkthrough of the basics i was involved into the class proper. After a month or two my sensei said my footwaork was good enough to wear Hakama and kendogi... About two weeks afterward one of the kendoka bought his own armour and a set of club armour became free. That night I was put in bogu and quite literally beaten about the dojo. It was all I could do to try and hold centre which being beaten up by the whole club.

I finally spotted an opening, and I went form men only to run into a do strike that missed the do completely.. Luckily my ribs stopped it. The sensei stopped the shiai. He said."I heard the air whoosh out of you from across the room."

While i was getting my breath back the class finished. I almost knew for a fact that I wasn't coming back after the beating i'd just had. Except, the changing room and the pub afterwards was a lot more fun. People I'd barely spoken to were chatting away to me.
So I resolved to give it another go.....

Next class much the same happened but I attacked more. The sensei gave me the armour to take home, and I've taken it since then. That was almost three years ago now.

So, At the time it is a real shock, but in hindsight.... I've seen a lot more 'initiations' since then... I think I didn't get of too bad...:D

[nollaig]

[QUOTE=KhawMengLee]It . "Moisturizer will help. ."


You big jam puff!!!!!

I thought kendo trained your mind to ignore the pain/discomfort of oyur body
and focus the mind.

Since I wear glasses the tunnel vision thing inside the men didn't bother me

it was also the kote cuts
One guy in my club has a rugby arm protector seems to work a treat
padded yet tight to the skin and his kote fit fine.

me I just too the pain cause I'm hard grrrrrrrrrr!!
then I ran away and cried

like GMason said my new bogu has solved all pain problems!!

[Andoru]

3 days ago (Tuesday night) I put on bogu for the very first time. It wasn't proper keiko in bogu because men-tsuke took place with only about 20 mins to go before finishing time (we were doing suburi/ashi-sabaki exercises).

Thanks to KWF and advice from friends, I knew what to expect: vision issues, hearing issues, ear pains etc. I had no dramas with putting them on after studying the equipment manual so intensively - our sempai helped us out anyway.

The first thing I noticed was my inability to raise my arms above my head - it was harder than expected. Luckily, I didn't do any cuts at all. I became motodachi for the beginners. Oh Joy. My back ached with the extra weight, and movements were slower in general.

The next night we had proper keiko in bogu. One of my fellow dojo mate (John) put on his bogu for the first time also. So naturally we got paired up doing "kihon" cuts. Our cuts were no where near "kihon" because the men-dare was in the way (we did shape and tie them before hand). The extra weight, and the lack of recovery time began to take a toll on my stamina. I was fighting the men-dare with each and every cut - I found myself out of steam often. Not to mention that I felt like a total newbie all over again when I realised how sloppy my kirikaeshi was in bogu.

John and I totally enjoyed the experience despite the initial discomforts though. Looking forward to my next training!

[tantadi]

I had bogu on for the first time just a few days ago, and I thought it was great fun and something I learned a lot from.

A lot of people think wearing bogu for the first time is horrible, guess I am one of the lucky ones. The yudansha did whack me, but that's expected. They also gave me pointers and were generally helpful.

It wasn't esp. painful or hard...the new blisters on my left foot bothered me most. :-D

[Serenity]

Hello World!!! :tongue:

I just started training kendo a month ago. And last Friday we were only three at training (please notice we are a very small club ; we are about 15 kendoka, but only a half attend to training ). The trainer couldn’t come because he had to work , so we have had free hand what to do. So a sempai offered me to wear his bogu. :cheerful: I was in heaven! I though I saw angels coming.:ditsy: It was amazing!! :surprise: OK, the first problem was the size; he is much better build then I am, so to bogu was too wide. Then I didn’t know haw to put it on; it’s very complicated (I think I will never get it, how to tide the himo), so he helped me.
I totally forget to get me new contacts, so I had glasses.:glasses: Big, very big, huge, enormous mistake!!! First of all, I didn’t se anything, because of the breathing the glasses were ful of dew. Then the men didn’t fit well; the glasses were so pushed on my nose, that I still have great pain on the top of my nose. :dead: After 5 Minutes the men didn’t stand the pain and I (senpai) took of the men. I have put the glasses away, I was much better. But, without glasses I can’t see an inch before me (I am so blind: -3.25). Oh, I had forgotten to mention the other problems: The Bogu is so heavy, I couldn’t se or hear anything and the practice without bogu is so much different. I really had big problem lifting the shinai and to hold it. :nervous: :emb:

But it was a great experience and I’m looking forward wearing the bogu next time.



Best Regards,

Spela :glasses:

[moetl]

uhh, were in bogu the first time yesterday :eek: - now i know why many beginners quit at this stage..!
besides that the men and kote were too big and the do was too small for my female hips, i felt like being in a submarine :D i always missed my partner when doing "kotai", because i couldn't see anything sideways ;)

getting hit on the head really needs getting used to and the kote... every strike hurt, damn that's not a nice feeling! but i will have to cope with that :D
it only can get better...

[distrex]

I haven't gotten into my bogu yet. I have just been to like 2 practices. I don't know how many of you guys have played football, but would wearing the men be any similar to wearing a football helmet?

[Hai_hai]

I haven't gotten into my bogu yet. I have just been to like 2 practices. I don't know how many of you guys have played football, but would wearing the men be any similar to wearing a football helmet?

The men does not feel like any type of helmet because it is tied onto your head as opposed to slipped on.

[rainmaker]

ok, I thought about me having a claustrophobia first time. Hard time to breath.. Thought about taking of Men so bad... couldn't breath.. Need more air...

By third time, I get better with Men. But after sparring, my leg felt like jello.. I run about 2 miles aday still cannot spar more than two time..

[Serenity]

uhh, were in bogu the first time yesterday :eek: - now i know why many beginners quit at this stage..!
besides that the men and kote were too big and the do was too small for my female hips, i felt like being in a submarine :D i always missed my partner when doing "kotai", because i couldn't see anything sideways ;)
getting hit on the head really needs getting used to and the kote... every strike hurt, damn that's not a nice feeling! but i will have to cope with that :D
it only can get better...
I don´t get it! :confused: Why do some newbis quit after they wear bogu for the first time! :shocked: It´s so cool :D (I wore bogu only once, but it was so amazing!:ditsy: )! I can´t wait till the next time! :emb:

Serenity :devious:

[rainmaker]

Bogu is soooo cooooool... I thought it is like chic magnet.. but still stinks when it get wet with sweat.... remind me of hockey gear...

[yangs]

For me, I never forget that, when I first wore my men, and I feel itch on my face...and...my finger is too big to pass menQQ

[AMRAAM]

Some of us at practice last night were asked to try on the Club Bogu for the first time. It was very cool. We did not initially have Men on and just practiced actually hitting one another on Kote and Do to start with, which was very enjoyable (until someone missed and reminds you that getting hit can still hurt quite a bit).

Then when the rest of the beginner class went home, and the advanced students started their training, we were asked if we wanted to try Men and join in the senior practice. That was even better!

It was strange to be wearing Men, it does not feel like any other head protector I have ever worn, but it was very cool. I had a great time trying to remember how to do everything (I seemed to forget everything I had learned as soon as I put the Men on). It was definitely the best moment of my Kendo so far. I can't wait to get kitted up again! I'm still buzzed about it this morning at work, even the egg shaped bruise on my wrist can't change my mind!

[souljah]

My first practice in bogu wasn't that great. It was extremely hot, it was disorienting, it was difficult to move around in, and I was constantly whacked on the head and forearm (much bruising - I was turning all the colours of the rainbow). I couldn't hear the instructions, so I was running round like a headless chicken. I had absolutely no idea what to do in ji-geiko, until I was told, "Just attack!"

The practices after that got much better after that. :)

[Yuudai]

The wearing of Men for the first time was'nt too bad, but why does your nose always itch after you have put it on?:confused:
Heh, that happens in european fencing too. But I have a question, I've heard numerous complaints about glasses fogging up. That really doesn't happen with fencing, is it that different for people w/ glasses in kendo?

[Serenity]

Heh, that happens in european fencing too. But I have a question, I've heard numerous complaints about glasses fogging up. That really doesn't happen with fencing, is it that different for people w/ glasses in kendo?
Yuudai, Please look at those two threads; :normal:
http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2905 (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2905) and http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=779&highlight=Fogged+Glasses (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=779&highlight=Fogged+Glasses) (you will get some useful infos :) ). I just once wore glasses during wearing a bogu and it was the grates mistake ever. :ko: I couldn´t see (because of the fog) anything and my nose hurted a long time. :dead: Since then I wear only contacts; the best solution. ;)

Serenity :glasses:

[Yuudai]

lol, ok thanks for the info.

[Wark 1978]

my first practice in bogu was about 9 months ago at the junior high school in japan where i work. it was over the summer vacation when the kids were going to kendo club. prior to that i had only had maybe 6 or 7 practices and when i went into the first practice over the summer, i found that all of the first graders were wearing bogu. i felt a bit left out being the only one in t-shirt and shorts but after only 6 or 7 practices i knew that i was a long way off wearing bogu. or so i thought.

however, the next day, a visiting sensei who works at a university nearby came to the school. he walked into the sports hall, saw me wearing t-shirt and shorts, walked out, came back in again with a bogu bag and gi and hakama and just said "put this on". my first thought was that i'm not ready but then again, you don't argue with your sensei. 2 students had to help me put it on.

the first thing i did in bogu was kakarigeiko where 6 of us stood in a circle and you had to spend 10secs going full out on everyone. after i did it and stopped i couldn't breathe, it felt so claustrophobic and i started to panic and had to stop myself from pulling the men off to breathe. not to mention not being able to see or hear properly. it was very disorientating and not pleasant but that was just the first time. by the end of that practice i wasn't completely used to it but i could cope with it. looking back i'm glad that i got into bogu so soon. the next milestone was getting my own bogu 5 months later.

[Sentunim]

Yeah, I've been doing kendo since January, I've worn a few pieces of bogu, not everything... I don't have a Hakama or Gi, but I don't think that is a problem.

The first time I wore bogu it was pretty cool. Definetley different than non-bogu. Hmm lets see thats about 20 practices at the dojo then. Is it normal to start being introduced to bogu around then?

[kenshin13]

wow. It looks like you guys who have put on men have had minor problems. I think putting on the tengui (sp?) will be hardest for me. I have done english fencing for 2 years, so I think I will get used to wearing men. It also sounds like nobody had problems with do. WEll, bye.

[taganahan]

aaa....i still remember the first time i wore my men. it was heavy. i had to hang my down and look at the floor the whole time while waiting for my turn. i also remember one of the conversations i had with the higher ranks and he said in a loud voice..."fresh meat...mmmm"

[Andoru]

This thread deserves a bump for the newcomers!

[NorthernKendoka]

My first time in bogu probably qualifys as one of the most exhausting things I've ever done. It felt as if I wouldn't bee able to walk home from that practice. But looking back at it I relize it wasn't at all a hard practice. But the combination of a new form of exercise and the possibility of getting hit in the head was what made it so hard. The feeling afterward was however notting but pure joy and excitement.

The tenugi was as many others have pointed out among the most difficult tasks. I acctually learned to tie my tenugi while playing counter-strike. Every time I was killed (all the time) I practiced tieing it until the new round started. Which ment lots and lots of tying.