Maai and tall people?

[KhawMengLee]

Is height an advantage?

I say this out of interest, as a result of a Jigeiko session today with a six foot kendoka. For me to get a good cut in I had to push in seme. I couldn't cut from the standard maai(distance).

eg. Usually at the point our sakigawa meet I can strike kote but with a taller opponent I just hit air.

At the same time in kata the taller person had to adjust distance to accomodate his longer strides and reach. During yonhonme his steps as uchidachi were so small you'd think his feet were tied together.


MENG

[Kuri]

Maai does not only equate to distance. It's an interval that's based on time and distance. So, your maai will constantly change depending on the opponent and ability (both yours and theirs).

Height does have some advantages, but they quickly dissapear as the skill level of the fighters increase. As for fighting taller people, there's a number of things. As stated, you need good seme. It also forces you to push off harder and reach further with your cuts, which will eventually increase your own maai, making it difficult for others to hit you. To hit a decent men-uchi, you need to have a large swing (ie good basic cut). I'm sure that there are many more advantages to training with people that are taller than yourself.

The only disadvantage I can see is the psycologically barrier you would instantly put up because you have doubts and fears about your own ability against that person.

[JSchmidt]

Essentially, you need, against anyone you fight, to find striking distance. That's the distance where you can, without compromising your posture, cut men with one step.
This will vary from opponent to opponent and against taller people, of course be closer than against shorter people.
You then have to start outside the opponents one-step striking distance so all is even.When you the push in, you need to make sure your first step is all the way in to your striking distance and then cut from there. Often, that distance, will be too close for the opponent.
Anywhere inbetween those distances will give the advantage to the opponent.
We got a couple of very tall people (6 foot+)coming to our dojo every now and then and I find that I have to be extremly aggressive against them.

Jakob

[Dobedog]

Having a wide range of heights to go against and being in the middle (5' 11"), I'd say, in my limited experience, that JScmidt is right about maai. I find an advantage in men uchi on shorter opponents until they press the maai too close. Then also, if my men cut is blocked, I find myself more vulnerable to kaeshi-do counter. So I try to keep the maai too wide for them and not to miss on my shikake waza. On taller people (we have a couple of 6'3-6" level guys), as JSchmidt says, I have to stay out further until I can press in with seme that doesn't telegraph too bad. I tend to concentrate more on kote from my more comfortable "normal" maai, or press in relatively closer (uncomfortable for me) to be ale to reach men. They have a harder time working their own waza when I am in close, but they are clearly anticipating an attack, so it's still harder to cut them from that closer maai.

Dobedog

[mingshi]

Originally posted by KhawMengLee
eg. Usually at the point our sakigawa meet I can strike kote but with a taller opponent I just hit air.


:confused: I managed to do Men cuts from sakigawa-touching on a few occations, but most of the time I can only do a Men-gane strike...

Since the Shinai are of the same length, so making a Kote cut with one step is the same against an opponent of any height.

Issoku-itto no maai <-- really depends on how far you can step in. Also (as Kuri said) it depends on how fast you+your opponent moves.

I believe my Kendo has improved since I started extra practice at a dojo with some Kendoka similar with my height (actually they came in all sizes, ranging from 150cm to 180cm+). It was very difficult for me to correct my wrong posture when all I had are much taller Senpai (It's not my fault that I'm short!!!).

Anyway, there were more things to be aware of when fighting against people of different built. Eg. (just plain generalization):

Tall =far reach for Men, but Do more opened
Short =fast on Kote/Do, but Men more opened
Heavyweight =less mobile, but can't be pushed with tai-atari
Kids =Jumping around
Old =probably your Sensei!!!
etc. etc.
:glasses: IMHO

[JSchmidt]

"Tall =far reach for Men, but Do more opened"

Well, not really. In order for a Do-cut to score, you still need to make the opponent lift his arms. Also, tall people tend to be more aware of their Do and are quick to protect it (usually with their elbows!).

Jakob

[Hyaku]

Some people I know in the police can and do cut from issoku itto no maai. There's very little you can do unless you have a strong chudan

Fumi-komi can be done by reaching out but can also be done by stamping the foot down near enough where it started from.

There are so many people that I have also seen that seem to attack by raising the feet very high. My old teacher who was taught by Oasa Yuji (Judan) always seems to attack my pushing forward with the knee. The stamp then comes as a more natural reaction.

I never try and make any one lift their arms for Do though. In Japan they wouldnt do that anyway. Also when they bring their arms back down its so quick the opportunity has gone. I see it I hit it.

To develop a strong chudan the movement of the kensaki is just about as much as a swallows tail. You only lift it when you see an opportunity.

Hyaku

[James R]

Jscmidt has got it spot on, I am 6'2" with bruised elbows because my torso is long, a great target for a Do cut from a smaller opponent. Being tall means having a longer reach so Shomen strikes are best for me, I am at a disadvantage when trying for the Do as I need to lower my body more when sparring with shorter people so I try to avoid it.

[Kendoka]

Taller people may also be heavier, therefore the power to weight ratio may favor the other person. Meaning, the other person may be quicker.

There is always the opportunity to entice the tall person to attempt a men, then the shorter person could dp debana kote or do.


Richard 183cm / 6'1"

[KenD'OH]

On the first day of practice, my sensei said height is an advantage. But he is really short and he doesn't seen to be bothered by a 6'+ shidan. I guess it all comes down to your training

[Ares2907]

It's a case by case thing. I don't think height necessarily conveys automatic advantage.
BTW, that would be yondan, grasshopper - unless he's dead.
:p

[Kendoboy]

I think height is a disadvantage. If you are tall you may have longer reach, but shorter people tend to be a bit quicker, and if they move in fast to their optimum maai, your cuts will be messed up. I'm about 6'1" and when a shorter person is really close, they can hit me ok, but my footwork tends to go astray because I'm feeling to boxed in, and don't feel able to step forward in a natural manner. Maybe that changes with experience though. Any suggestions?

[Ares2907]

Yes - otoshi and hiki waza. You should be able to generate enough leverage with a decent wrist snap to deflect a shinai away nicely (if not send it spinning across the dojo - a personal favorite). There are plenty of things you can do against a short person in chika maai but again it depends on the individual - sorry to be so vague, but like all things kendo there's no one right way to do it.

[Dobedog]

Kendoboy, It seems hanging around too close is a common difficulty that particularly exascerbates taller people. Use that extra reach to stay away unless you are attacking and attack sooner when the opponent STARTS to wander in close. If they feel the danger of imminent attack from the lgreater distance, they will have difficulty getting in close enough to exert any real pressure on you. The trouble is setting that standard at the first- getting farther away after tsubazarei before the opponent starts pressuring in close again, make your own attacks from YOUR maai, make them feel the danger from a greater distance.

Also, I dispute the notion that bigger people are not as quick. Distance is distance and the taller person doesn't have as far to move for the same effect ON A RELATIVE BASIS. Sumo wrestlers are huge, but I'd like to see a small person tell one to his face that he's slow/not quick. It's a matter of training and being relaxing before the move so as to be free to accelerate.

Do others agree?
Dobedog

[Canadiankendoka]

I agree with everything you said, Dobedog. However, I must admit that in general, I have seen more "smaller" kendoka that have fast fumi komi than big ones. I think this is because people learn to use what they have to their advantage.

"Bigger" kendoka are often very solid on their feet and so don't seem to use as quick fumi komi as "smaller" kendoka. (Please note that there are exeptions to every rule... )

You'll also notice I'm talking about fumi komi and not waza because I've practiced with several "bigger" kendoka that have the reflexes of a cat!

So in essence, I don't think size matters (okay, you know what I mean... :p) 'cause you just learn to adapt and become quick at what you're best at.